Shin Godzilla Raids Again

[Legion1979]

People just don't think. They see the title "Shin Godzilla Raids Again" and immediately think only of the first sequel and jump to the conclusion that Angilas MUST have been involved somehow. Then it ends up spiraling out of control.

"Raids Again"/"Counterattack Of"/"Return of" are pretty common translations of the same Japanese title. The Japanese titles of Godzilla Raids Again, King Kong Escapes and Terror of Mechagodzilla all feature the same title, just with different monster names. That's clearly what Anno was doing here, and not directly referencing the second film.

[Cryptid_Liker]

People just don't think. They see the title "Shin Godzilla Raids Again" and immediately think only of the first sequel and jump to the conclusion that Angilas MUST have been involved somehow. Then it ends up spiraling out of control.

"Raids Again"/"Counterattack Of"/"Return of" are pretty common translations of the same Japanese title. The Japanese titles of Godzilla Raids Again, King Kong Escapes and Terror of Mechagodzilla all feature the same title, just with different monster names. That's clearly what Anno was doing here, and not directly referencing the second film.

Y'know, I'd agree in any other context. But this is a proposal by Hideaki Anno we're talking about here. I won't go into anything remotely specific due to the spoiler rule but Shin Ultraman* (and what we've seen from Shin Kamen Rider) make it hard for me to believe the use of "gyakushu" was anything less than a delibarate reference.
*I know he didn't direct Shin Ultraman but he still wrote it and that's what matters in this case.

[mikelcho]

People just don't think. They see the title "Shin Godzilla Raids Again" and immediately think only of the first sequel and jump to the conclusion that Angilas MUST have been involved somehow. Then it ends up spiraling out of control.

"Raids Again"/"Counterattack Of"/"Return of" are pretty common translations of the same Japanese title. The Japanese titles of Godzilla Raids Again, King Kong Escapes and Terror of Mechagodzilla all feature the same title, just with different monster names. That's clearly what Anno was doing here, and not directly referencing the second film.

Y'know, I'd agree in any other context. But this is a proposal by Hideaki Anno we're talking about here. I won't go into anything remotely specific due to the spoiler rule but Shin Ultraman* (and what we've seen from Shin Kamen Rider) make it hard for me to believe the use of "gyakushu" was anything less than a delibarate reference.
*I know he didn't direct Shin Ultraman but he still wrote it and that's what matters in this case.

Another translation would be "Revenge of", am I right?

[Cryptid_Liker]

People just don't think. They see the title "Shin Godzilla Raids Again" and immediately think only of the first sequel and jump to the conclusion that Angilas MUST have been involved somehow. Then it ends up spiraling out of control.

"Raids Again"/"Counterattack Of"/"Return of" are pretty common translations of the same Japanese title. The Japanese titles of Godzilla Raids Again, King Kong Escapes and Terror of Mechagodzilla all feature the same title, just with different monster names. That's clearly what Anno was doing here, and not directly referencing the second film.

Y'know, I'd agree in any other context. But this is a proposal by Hideaki Anno we're talking about here. I won't go into anything remotely specific due to the spoiler rule but Shin Ultraman* (and what we've seen from Shin Kamen Rider) make it hard for me to believe the use of "gyakushu" was anything less than a delibarate reference.
*I know he didn't direct Shin Ultraman but he still wrote it and that's what matters in this case.

Another translation would be "Revenge of", am I right?

oh god

[mikelcho]

Y'know, I'd agree in any other context. But this is a proposal by Hideaki Anno we're talking about here. I won't go into anything remotely specific due to the spoiler rule but Shin Ultraman* (and what we've seen from Shin Kamen Rider) make it hard for me to believe the use of "gyakushu" was anything less than a delibarate reference.
*I know he didn't direct Shin Ultraman but he still wrote it and that's what matters in this case.

Another translation would be "Revenge of", am I right?

oh god

Ehhh, what's wrong here?

[LSD Jellyfish]

All right, lets settle this:

You can see how 逆襲 (Gyakushu) is typically translated to English here:
https://ejje.weblio.jp/content/%E9%80%86%E8%A5%B2

Lots of ways to translate Gyakushu (逆襲). Mainly "counter attack". Also, it can be used as both a noun (逆襲) and verb (逆襲する). Raids Again, is actually a pretty bizarre, but slightly poetic, title, by modern standards. This isn't my place to criticize what title is better, or what the international title should be, but the "の” (no) in Japanese is a possesive particle. A more literal title would be, Godzilla's Counterattack, rahter than Godzilla Raids Again. But Raids Again is a more original title that sticks better.

Another issue with translating a lot of these words is some of the same ideas aren't necessarily wrong or incorrect translations. Revenge, I think, really serves the same function as counterattack, as when you counterattack you are typically getting revenge for previously incurred losses, but the words are different. I think Cryptid Liker was saying "oh God", because it's funny to envision a Shin Godzilla's Revenge/Shin All Monsters Attack film.

Worth noting that the Japanese Title of Empire Strikes back is "スター・ウォーズ 帝国の逆襲 " Or "Empire's Counterattack". The 1998 Pokemon Film, titled "Pokemon the First Movie", is titled Gekijōban Poketto Monsutā: Myūtsū no Gyakushū and is seen as "Mewtwo Stikes Back" in English. Films and language change in real time, so translations of movie titles, even if a bit odd, form and change language.

This is all to say that Legion1979 has a point about not taking "Gyashaku" too literally to imply that the film would have any relation to Godzilla Raids Again or Angurius, but I'm also inclined to side with what Cryptid Liker said about Anno.

[JVM]

Like many of the projects posted, I have real questions on how "serious" this was actually presented. I've always envisioned lost projects as ideas that are fully fleshed out/thought/written/concept art and just never put in front of cameras (GMK's original, Return of King Ghidorah, US Godzilla 1994, etc). Someone writing random ideas down on a napkin during happy hour and passing them to the head of Toho like some seem to be really don't pop as "lost projects." Anno had some ideas sure, but this was never even seriously considered if I'm reading the info right.

Even when we do have definitive sources, it seems hard to tell how serious things are -- based on how Kaneko discussed the Godzilla-Anguirus-Varan proposal at G-Fest a few years ago, he made it sound very much like a "napkin idea". In contrast to how the story has always been told about him going to friends not recognizing the other characters and we are aware the existence of props and concept art, he told it in that instance here as if he had an idea and Toho said no and he made up his mind in five minutes to get over it and change it. I believe the question was someone asking him how long it took him to change his mind after meeting with Toho and he seemed to joke it took him only a few minutes. Given the existence of props, I think he was just trying to be humble or humorous, but in the audience, it felt for a moment as if something Western fandom had built up as a big missed opportunity had hardly existed.

I actually agree with you to an extent that a lot of these feel more like napkin ideas, especially more recent additions, than fully fleshed out ideas, but Toho Kingdom seems to be taking an approach that is shifting more and more from the former 'lost projects' section, which has been under Cutting Room for a long time, to more a 'draft timeline' towards the development of a finished film, as opposed to treating lost projects as standalone unfinished films, which might suggest altering the section a little further than where it currently is and maybe isolating out projects like the Godzilla 1994 proposal that TK has **never covered** from earlier drafts of ultimately completed films.

For the record, I only made the thread because of the update on the main site. I'm perfectly content to never discuss any of this lost project business again and have actively avoided making threads about them for the last few years... but someone would have made a thread about it eventually and I thought I had a fair take.

[Creature22]

In all fairness, I like discussing the possibilities of “what if”, and a Shin Godzilla sequel offers a lot of cool ideas that could be tossed around. Making a thread for it is completely fair. But as some have already mentioned, it’s the clickbaity “making it into something it’s not” responses that I’m not a fan of. Historical context is often disregarded and theories treated as fact because it’s more exciting that way and will generate more clicks. But that often spreads a lot of false information, and once that box is opened it’s very hard to close back up.

[MechaGoji Bro7503]

When I brought up Anguirus, it was for the fun of the bs and nothing more. I don't recall saying he'd legitimately be involved

Monstrosities is one of the good ones (seriously, his Singular Point behind the scenes history is worth a watch), so while I can *understand* why he'd make that "Shin 2" thumbnail click-baity, it's pretty much just a case of a creator wanting to capitalize a bit on views. Was it the best thing to do? Nah, but I wouldn't consider him the worst offender compared to other youtubers. Believe me, the false information sh*t is annoying. I think there are still people that believe Shin was made up of micro organisms rather than being an aquatic creature.

[Jetty_Jags]

Monstrosities is one of the good ones (seriously, his Singular Point behind the scenes history is worth a watch)

Double vouch for Monstrosities, I'm surprised with the click bait title, but they have some of the most sober and well researched kaiju content this side of the pond (second only to Blunova). They really tend to focus on objective content, make sure to clearly distinguish when rumors are just rumors, and do an all-around great job of not playing into easy misinformation.

[JVM]

In all fairness, I like discussing the possibilities of “what if”, and a Shin Godzilla sequel offers a lot of cool ideas that could be tossed around. Making a thread for it is completely fair. But as some have already mentioned, it’s the clickbaity “making it into something it’s not” responses that I’m not a fan of. Historical context is often disregarded and theories treated as fact because it’s more exciting that way and will generate more clicks. But that often spreads a lot of false information, and once that box is opened it’s very hard to close back up.

Are we talking about Toho Kingdom users or annoying youtubers? Because if it's the latter, I can share that concern, but in terms of TK it doesn't feel like a real issue, so that's a distinction I'd like clarified.

[Creature22]

I’m talking about YouTube in this sense. TK is fairly organized and maintains decent control over inaccurate information spiraling out of hand. On the whole I’d say it feels like information actually gets processed and discussed on here, whereas places like YouTube require constant subject matter for content.

Not to stray off topic from Shin Godzilla Raids Again of course; this is just a good example of something that could easily be blown out of proportion.

In regards to discussion/theories themselves: I could definitely imagine Anno utilizing the original title text from “Godzilla Raids Again”, albeit with “Shin” added to the front of it.

[JVM]

I’m talking about YouTube in this sense. TK is fairly organized and maintains decent control over inaccurate information spiraling out of hand. On the whole I’d say it feels like information actually gets processed and discussed on here, whereas places like YouTube require constant subject matter for content.

Not to stray off topic from Shin Godzilla Raids Again of course; this is just a good example of something that could easily be blown out of proportion.

In regards to discussion/theories themselves: I could definitely imagine Anno utilizing the original title text from “Godzilla Raids Again”, albeit with “Shin” added to the front of it.

Yeah, see, when it's placed like that, it's a concern I wholly share, I initially misunderstood that people were referring to TK itself. It's very tempting for me to stray off-topic because I have a lot of thoughts about fandom youtubers (in a broad sense) but I'll drop there.

Yeah, that's the sort of approach I'm imagining. It's still crazy to me to imagine this version of Godzilla being in any kind of multi-kaiju project.

[Gailah 1966]

It was lilke that:
Hedaki Anno and Shinhi Higuchi: "Hey we could do a sequel with good quality and cheap in production! We already have ideas and a story!"
Toho: "NO, we have to sell towels and toys!"

[BalSac Johnson]

I hope they do a sequel that includes an adversary besides humans. I enjoyed Shin Godzilla personally