Who Hates Heisei?

[Legion1979]

"You know what? Lets make one last Godzilla movie. No reason, really. Maybe we're just out of ideas. Yeah, that's it. We want to send him off while he's still a star. We'll kill him off and make lots of merchandise and we'll retire him in top. Yup, that's what's we'll do."

* 4 years later*

"You know what? Let's bring Godzilla back. No reason, really. It's just time, you know. We think it's the perfect time to do it. The world wants Godzilla again. This absolutely has nothing to do with anything that happened in 1998. We're positive these movies will be just as successful as the last ones were. Gamera, Shmamera. We can make better films than those. Get Bandai on the line."

[edgaguirus]

Speaking of G vs Destroyah, it was quite the sendoff for Godzilla. Godzilla faces the OD in the form of a kaiju, and he made a moving exit that touched every fan's heart. The other "last" films had short and satisfying exits, but this one felt more complete and emotional.

[JVM]

Times are different though; I also distinctly recall Toho Kingdom not liking The Return of Godzilla which I can in multiple threads has clearly see has turned around since before my hiatus, possibly since the film is so much easier to obtain than it once was.

I think this is it exactly. I had a lukewarm reaction to RoG based on memories of my VHS tape of the US version and one viewing of a bootleg copy of the original film at a friend's house. After snagging the Kraken Blu-Ray, I've watched twice and come to form a very high opinion of RoG. I'd presently rank it as the 5th best Godzilla movie.

This is one of the things I find fascinating about kaiju fandom -- when the Kraken release was announced, most people didn't see it as significant and many felt it was near worthless without the American edit, and a lot of the fixation on that had more to do with the video quality concern than active preference, from what I could tell. I think a lot of this is because most vocal Toho Kingdom users had obviously seen the Japanese version of the film by then and having it on a physical release didn't mean anything, but it seems that despite all of that, putting that movie on a disc nonetheless made it accessible for review to a ton of people who otherwise might not have seen it. I had fun watching the international and American versions back to back myself.

[GoldenGoat2000]

TRog and Vs Biollante are nearly flawless and an amazing start to an era, but it also has Vs King Ghidora and Battle for earth (my bottom 2 Godzilla movies).

[JAGzilla]

^ Poor King Ghidorah. BFE I can easily understand, but what puts KG so low for you?

[GoldenGoat2000]

^The imperial japan stuff and just politics in general. Combine that with a mess of a time travel plot you get GvKG

[edgaguirus]

I'm with you on rating BFE a low score, mainly the dubbed version.

[CyberZilla]

I gotta say I like these movies a great deal, even the “meh” ones like Spacegodzilla and Battle for Earth. Can’t say I hate any of the Heisei era movies. All of them did something for me. BFE and Biollante in particular are close to my heart because my sister and I would watch them together.

[SpiderZilla]

Just out of curiosity, what is the correlation of fans/haters between the Heisei series and the Rebirth of Mothra trilogy? Are there people who like one series but dislike the other?

I dislike both but I dislike the Mothra trilogy more. I find the trilogy too targeted to children which makes it less appealing to me. In fact, I think I’ve seen each film only once. In contrast, I can’t think of any Heisei film that I haven’t watched at least twice.

[JAGzilla]

The RoM movies are straight out bad. There's no sugar coating it. The second one, in particular, is a contender for the worst kaiju film ever made by a major studio. Buuut they do skate by with outstanding music, a few legitimately well done kaiju scenes, and charmingly silly over-the-toppishness with all their crazy power ups, garish Elias outfits, and stuff. And I'm just really glad that they exist. I love that Mothra has her his own trilogy, even if it was lazy, shoddy junk. They're sort of the Heisei era equivalent of the later Showa Gamera movies. They add some interesting variety into the very fascinating and important late '90s kaiju landscape.

[Legion1979]

I don't love the entirety of the Heisei series, but I like most of them and will pop one on once in a blue moon. The Mothra trilogy, meanwhile, are films that I'll probably never watch ever again.

[HedorahIsBestGirl]

Just out of curiosity, what is the correlation of fans/haters between the Heisei series and the Rebirth of Mothra trilogy? Are there people who like one series but dislike the other?

If there's someone who hates Heisei Godzilla but likes RoM, I have yet to meet them. My experience is that most fans who aren't big on Heisei absolutely despise Rebirth of Mothra. By contrast, Heisei lovers tend to be more forgiving of RoM than other fans do. But I don't think anyone thinks the RoM trilogy is amazing kaiju kino.

Added in 2 minutes 12 seconds:

The RoM movies are straight out bad. There's no sugar coating it. The second one, in particular, is a contender for the worst kaiju film ever made by a major studio.

I think that Rebirth of Mothra 2 is hands-down the worst post-Showa kaiju movie made by a big studio. It makes Godzilla vs. Space Godzilla look like a masterpiece. Scenes of the two idiots chasing the kids around the temple were actually painful to watch. Dagahra's fairly cool design might be the only redeeming quality of that movie.

[FlawedCoil82]

Even though I grew up with the Showa films, it is the Heisei films I regard the highest. I judge the monster scenes and battles as the most critical element in a Godzilla movie, and the Heisei films just pleased me more. The monsters all looked at the very best incarnations in the Heisei films. This will always be my definitive look for Godzilla. The best I have seen Godzilla look since these films was “Godzilla vs. Gigan Rex”.

One of my biggest complaints about the Shows films is how sparingly Godzilla used his breath against the enemy monsters he was fighting (even as a kid it was flat out inexcusable how he never hit Ghidorah once with it in “Ghidorah: The Three-Headed Monster”…that ruined the entire fight for me). In the Heisei series, he used his most important weapon plenty (perhaps even bordering on a bit too much?!). Godzilla looked menacing and tough, while all the bad kaiju he battled looked equally as intimidating. Seeing him never backing down to creatures larger and more frightening looking than him such as Biollante or Destoroyah always inspired me in my teen years. I admired his courage and that he looked just as dangerous as his enemies.

In hindsight, it is easier to see the flaws now in these films than I used to see, but even with them I still enjoy the six “Versus” films to be superior to any of the Millennium films and most certainly EVERYTHING in the highly disappointing Reiwa output. It still bugs the crap out of me though that we can not get official “Godzilla vs…..King Ghidorah, Mothra, Spacegodzilla or Destoroyah” on single disc, widescreen DVD Region 1 releases! Tristar remains Hellbent on those worthless full screen, double sided discs. I truly wish another company could get the license so those four films can finally get the DVD releases that they deserve!

[edgaguirus]

Just out of curiosity, what is the correlation of fans/haters between the Heisei series and the Rebirth of Mothra trilogy? Are there people who like one series but dislike the other?

I dislike both but I dislike the Mothra trilogy more. I find the trilogy too targeted to children which makes it less appealing to me. In fact, I think I’ve seen each film only once. In contrast, I can’t think of any Heisei film that I haven’t watched at least twice.

I like Heisei films, and find the ROM trilogy lower tier, but still watchable. However, I don't view the trilogy very often.

[king_ghidorah]

I don't love the entirety of the Heisei series, but I like most of them and will pop one on once in a blue moon. The Mothra trilogy, meanwhile, are films that I'll probably never watch ever again.

Agreed with this.

I find the RoM trilogy to be unwatchable fyi.

Regarding the Heisei series, I've actually come back full circle and am able to appreciate at least four of them pretty solidly. G 84, GvBio, GvKG and Destroyrah are all upper tier G films for me. With Destroyah rising pretty high up in my estimation lately. It's flawed, kind of campy, but it's fun and has some decent ooomph at times.

[ebirahsmeg1]

I find the RoM trilogy to be unwatchable fyi.

I'd rather watch all of the Godzilla Island episodes without bathroom breaks over any of the ROM trilogy

Regarding the Heisei series, I've actually come back full circle and am able to appreciate at least four of them pretty solidly. G 84, GvBio, GvKG and Destroyrah are all upper tier G films for me. With Destroyah rising pretty high up in my estimation lately. It's flawed, kind of campy, but it's fun and has some decent ooomph at times.

It really still amazes me how obsessed Japanese G fans are with GvsBiollante. It's a film that I do indeed like....but the best film of the *entire Godzilla series*??? Um....nope.

But most Japanese G fans I encountered overwhelmingly prefer the Heisei series (even older fans I met who grew up well before those films were released). Also, I think GvsBiollante was at the tail end of Japan's global economic prominence in the world before the "bubble" burst a few years later (I lived in Japan for almost 2 decades, and the country economically has never recovered and is sadly in *big trouble* going forward), so I'm sure nostalgia plays a big role in how much this film is loved over there.

[Legion1979]

Nostgia is a powerful thing, my friend.

[king_ghidorah]

I think 84 does a better job of the serious Godzilla thing. GvKG does a better job of campy fun (it's internal logic makes no sense, it doesn't have super compelling characters etc., but darned if I don't have a good time with it) and GvD has better emotional stakes.

I think Bio gets elevated so high because it's kind of a "just right, in the middle" sort of thing. Similiar to how some people prefer Gamera 2 over the other two, even though I'd argue it's the most empty of the trilogy, though it is an action packed ride...it's just a solid, middle of the road film and people seem to gravitate towards that as opposed something more unique like G3, or more traditional like GOTU.

Not sure if any of that makes sense...

[HedorahIsBestGirl]

I think Bio gets elevated so high because it's kind of a "just right, in the middle" sort of thing.

That's probably part of it but I also think GvB's very unique storyline is part of the reason. It's certainly one of the most original Godzilla films and brought a lot of fresh ideas to the table 35 years and 17 films in. Plus, it has some nice effects work and Biollante herself is one of the franchise's coolest kaiju. I'm not the movie's hugest fan but I do think it's overall well-made and its influence in subsequent Godzilla media is evident. I can understand why it's such a fan favorite even though I've historically considered it overrated.

Similiar to how some people prefer Gamera 2 over the other two, even though I'd argue it's the most empty of the trilogy, though it is an action packed ride...it's just a solid, middle of the road film and people seem to gravitate towards that as opposed something more unique like G3, or more traditional like GOTU.

This is news to me, I always though Gamera 2 was seen as the awkward middle child, with GOTU and G3 getting more love. G2 is my least favorite of the three even though I still like it a lot.

[Major sssspielberg!]

Hear me out about Biollante (and some other ramblings lol I'm sorry)
The more I watch Return of Godzilla, the more it feels like a Showa era film. Obviously a lot of the crew were Showa Godzilla vets, so that's probably why I get that sense. (Which, as an aside, is kinda cool, because it feels like Nakano and Hashimoto *really* got to shine by giving the next generation a foundation to build a new Godzilla era, not bound by the spectre of what Honda, Tsuburaya, etc did and really got to do their own thing! In my mind now Return is kinda the 'real' swan song of the Showa era and a nice send off for some of the underappreciated crew members that helped build the Godzilla series.)
Biollante is the 'real' start of the Heisei era, it totally sets the tone for the next 6 years of films.
It's the movie that gave Omori and Kawakita their shit at the proverbial brass ring. And you can tell, especially on Kawakita's side, that in Biollante there was a huge effort to move the needle and do something bold for and from a new generation. I think that spirit elevates Biollante and is dripping from most every frame of the film. I think that's what give Biollante a special significance.