Talkback: Atragon (1963)

For the discussion of Toho produced and distributed films or shows released before 1980.
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eabaker
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Re: Talkback: Atragon (1963)

Post by eabaker »

LegendZilla wrote: Fri Jun 25, 2021 11:42 pm
GodzillavsRayquaza wrote: Fri Jun 25, 2021 8:48 pm This movie’s pretty good. The Mu Empire make for some intimidating and entertaining villains (even if their god doesn’t), I quite liked the characters, and the Gotengo itself was pretty dang cool.

I am curious why the movie is called Atragon when the ship is called Gotengo, I know the ship’s sometimes called Atragon like in G:U, but that only confuses me more.
They re-named the Gotengo into Atragon for the US release.
Toho supposedly actually intended the name "Atragon" to refer to Manda for the US release (it was apparently meant as a portmanteau of "Atlantis Dragon").

In Japan, where neither the ship nor the monster is known by the name "Atragon," the movie is called "Undersea Battleship."
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Terasawa
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Re: Talkback: Atragon (1963)

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Toho's English title was "Atoragon" (subtitled "Flying Super Sub"), but most of the extant Toho publicity doesn't use a name for the craft, film title excepted. A Toho-printed campaign book gives the synopsis in English, French, and Spanish, but only in the French synopsis is the name "Atoragon" used. The ship's only named twice in the Hong Kong dub commissioned by Toho, with one character saying "Atoragon" (or something very close) and Jinguji using "Gotengo". (Some of the HK dubbers active in the '90s and 2000s have said that the translations they were given to write the dubbing scripts were usually really poor. Not being familiar with the films and series themselves, they often weren't aware that they names they used were incorrect. For example, that's apparently why ToMG and both versions of Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla II have characters use Rodan's Japanese name. It's possible that "Gotengo" in Atragon's export dub is a similar mistake.)

Image

The English version released by AIP greatly simplifies things by having all characters frequently use the name "Atragon." Toho was also using that spelling for the title no later than 1968, but I don't know if it originated at AIP or Toho International.
Last edited by Terasawa on Mon Jun 28, 2021 9:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Talkback: Atragon (1963)

Post by Spuro »

Terasawa wrote: Mon Jun 28, 2021 9:18 am Image
Okay, I really need to look into this Samurai Pirate movie by Toshiro Mifune. That sounds amazing. :lol:
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Re: Talkback: Atragon (1963)

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Spuro wrote: Mon Jun 28, 2021 12:45 pm Okay, I really need to look into this Samurai Pirate movie by Toshiro Mifune. That sounds amazing. :lol:
Definitely worth checking out if you're into the broader Toho genre canon. There's a thread for it here, and here's a lousy upload of the Japanese trailer. You'll have to do a little digging to find the movie itself, as it hasn't seen official video release in America.

Last edited by Terasawa on Mon Jun 28, 2021 1:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Talkback: Atragon (1963)

Post by JAGzilla »

Watching this for the first time right now, via the Media Blasters DVD. I'm 24 minutes in so far, and it's okay... the budget seems lower than some of the other Toho films of the time. The film reel Mu sent to the UN wouldn't have been out of place in an Ultraman episode. Destroying Venice and Hong Kong entirely off-screen was a really lame choice. Hopefully they'll do something dramatic to make up for it...

EDIT: And I'm done. Yeah, it was consistently just okay. Not one of Toho's best efforts, but not their worst, either. A lot of characters felt kind of half-baked and just there, though that's par for the course. The conflict around convincing the captain to put the war behind him and see the bigger picture was an above average emotional core for the genre, I will definitely give it that. His conversation with Makoto and the main photographer guy was a highlight.

Visually the movie was all over the place. Some shots looked pretty bad, such as those annoying 'shaky-cam' moments, and Atragon's introductory scene in the hangar failing to sell its size convincingly. But then there were a lot of really well-done shots, too many to really list. Lots of creative framing and good use of color. The sorry transfer lets this movie down; moments like Makoto standing by the ocean in her bright yellow dress, or the big Mu ceremony with its riot of colorful outfits and hair dyes really would benefit from a nice, clear transfer that lets them pop like they were meant to.

Action was ho-hum. Manda was perfunctory and a fairly unimpressive prop, and the lack of music during his battle left it feeling unimportant. Atragon's Cold Air Cannon was a poor effect, but the actual scene of Manda freezing and the ship passing him by looked good. I guess they were arrogant and caught off-guard, but after the threat posed by their agents on the surface (the Mt. Mihara scene was great) the Mu troops in the power plant being some utterly ineffective half-naked dudes with knives was a stupid choice, and made the Japanese victory feel more like they were conquering some primitive culture than defeating a high-tech enemy in a war for the fate of the world.

Music was typical Ifukube, in both a positive and negative sense. His scores were always quality, but he did have a tendency to repeat himself. I guess his Atragon theme did come first, but all I heard was the 1964 Godzilla theme with a few tweaks made to it. It took me out of the movie and just made me want to go watch Mothra vs. Godzilla.
Last edited by JAGzilla on Thu Feb 10, 2022 3:12 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Talkback: Atragon (1963)

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JAGzilla wrote: Thu Feb 10, 2022 12:56 am The conflict around convincing the captain to put the war behind him and see the bigger picture was an above average emotional core for the genre, I will definitely give it that. His conversation with Makoto and the main photographer guy was a highlight.
I’d say that it’s this moment that elevates the movie for me, and prevents it from falling into Varan/War in Space territory.
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Re: Talkback: Atragon (1963)

Post by GiveBackTheSun22 »

I didn't find this one very memorable but I agree with the posts above that the captain's arc was kind of cool. I wish we could see Manda in another movie where he isn't total canon fodder because he is a cool monster in concept.

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Re: Talkback: Atragon (1963)

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GiveBackTheSun22 wrote: Thu Feb 10, 2022 4:44 am I didn't find this one very memorable but I agree with the posts above that the captain's arc was kind of cool. I wish we could see Manda in another movie where he isn't total canon fodder because he is a cool monster in concept.
Say what you will about GFW, it at least gave Manda a respectable rematch with the Gotengo. They at least had to be creative to get Manda off and even the process of doing so added some stakes and urgency.

Attragon is average but fun. Jinguchi's arc is good and the miniature sets for the disaster effects was good.
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Anguirus and Godzilla being friends in the Showa series is cannon. Deal with it.

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Re: Talkback: Atragon (1963)

Post by Major sssspielberg! »

The opening minutes and titles to this movie get me so insanely pumped. Peak Kenji Sahara, the Takashima/Fujiki duo, Jinguji's arc...
I love Atragon, warts and all.
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Re: Talkback: Atragon (1963)

Post by Spuro »

https://letterboxd.com/film/atragon/

So Letterboxd just changed up Atragon's poster image, and it's one that I've never seen before! It looks beautiful, but I don't know if that poster is official or fan art. Anyone here know where it's from?
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Re: Talkback: Atragon (1963)

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So Letterboxd just changed up Atragon's poster image, and it's one that I've never seen before! It looks beautiful, but I don't know if that poster is official or fan art. Anyone here know where it's from?
[/quote]

As far as I know it's an official poster and quite a good one too at that! I think when I do my 5th Toho Showa Universe Marathon in Nov' I will for sure post this poster on twitter when the time comes.

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Re: Talkback: Atragon (1963)

Post by UltramanGoji »

Spuro wrote: Wed Mar 09, 2022 1:08 am https://letterboxd.com/film/atragon/

So Letterboxd just changed up Atragon's poster image, and it's one that I've never seen before! It looks beautiful, but I don't know if that poster is official or fan art. Anyone here know where it's from?
It’s fan made. The art is by Yuji Kaida:

https://twitter.com/tokumonsters/status ... 87588?s=21
Last edited by UltramanGoji on Wed Mar 09, 2022 12:47 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Talkback: Atragon (1963)

Post by Major sssspielberg! »

Just watched this today. I really appreciated the camera work for the drama scenes this time around. Lively but not distracting. Performances are pretty amazing too. I remember reading once that the whole thing was filmed over the course of a month and a half or two months, very quickly regardless, and with that in mind, though the rush is apparent in some places, it's a very impressive film.
Kenji Sahara is such a good actor, and it's always great when he really gets to flex his chops. He plays such a good slimeball!
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