If one option nets you a ticket to heaven, while the other condemns you to eternal damnation, then that's not a choice. That's duress.
What religion are you?
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Re: What religion are you?
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Re: What religion are you?
If someone is a sinner, and they come to Jesus, the burden of their sins is lifted off them and placed onto Christ. Without accepting the way out, there's no one else to face your punishment but you. God has no pleasure in the death and torture of the wicked, nor does He take pleasure in the death of anyone. That's why He has made a way for us to be saved. To turn from our evil ways of hatred, deceit, insult, etc. He has plead with people to turn away from their sins. God's all loving nature and His justice seem like they'd come into conflict. His love for us demands reconciliation and forgiveness, whilst His justice demands punishment for sin. It really seems like they'd get in the way of each other, but they don't thanks to Christ. Christ takes our death penalty of sin and places it upon himself, he bore all of the punishment for all of our sins once we find faith in him. It is also a show of God's love for us that He'd send Himself to endure the punishment of sin, all so we do not have to. So, God has made a to receive forgiveness for our sinful ways-- to accept Jesus' sacrifice. If you do not accept this, it is only fair that you get the punishment you originally would have faced. You did not accept Jesus as your saviour, so the penalty of sin is on nobody but yourself.Spirit Ghidorah 2010 wrote: ↑Sat Dec 03, 2022 1:08 pmIf one option nets you a ticket to heaven, while the other condemns you to eternal damnation, then that's not a choice. That's duress.
I don't like the doctrine of hell, I'm sure nobody does. I wish that auto-salvation was true. However, if you pretended that people aren't inherently sinful and aren't in need of salvation by Christ would be as cruel as telling a dying person that they're healthy even when you know the cure.
I'm not trying to convert or convince anybody, don't get it twisted. I believe what I believe, you believe what you believe. And that's okay. Once again, it comes back to the choice that God has presented us with. I have given myself to Him and you have not. I will not judge, and I will still love you all the same as I would with a fellow Christian. I wish only to be respectful and to express my spiritual and religious beliefs.
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Re: What religion are you?
*carried over from unpop opinions thread*
I used to be religious but I never believed that God was a perfect force of good. I actually used to believe that God and Satan were two sides of the same diving being. Only way I could rationalize some of the horrible shit God does in the Old Testament.
They were absolutely killed on the basis of being Egyptian. And "basis" shouldn't really matter when we're talking about the slaughter of infants. That's wrong from any perspective, for any reason. My comparison to eugenics was to make the point that if you justify the mass slaughter of people - especially babies - it creates a slippery slope that allows for acts of genocide like the Holocaust to occur.
Okay, so kill Pharaoh...? If I had mad beef with some asshole and I had divine powers, I'd make him spontaneously combust. I wouldn't slaughter a bunch of newborns to send a message.
Yep, they did lots of horrible things... and no one prays to them. This is why I object to the concept of a God who is supposedly "all-good" and yet commits multiple acts of genocide throughout the Bible. If a human being killed a bunch of babies or destroyed almost all life with a flood or ordered a man to murder his son to prove his loyalty, etc, not a single rational person would think of them as anything but despicable. But when a "God" does these things, apparently that's okay because they're not held to the same moral standards.
I used to be religious but I never believed that God was a perfect force of good. I actually used to believe that God and Satan were two sides of the same diving being. Only way I could rationalize some of the horrible shit God does in the Old Testament.
Last edited by HedorahIsBestGirl on Sat Dec 03, 2022 3:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What religion are you?
I noticed I posted my views back on page 2 of this thread and totally forgot so I’ll say my views remain the same as they have, but I think since we’re discussing the “well all these babies were slaughtered was it necessary” and the obvious answer being no because why sacrifice to something that has no evidence of existing. I might as well put my heavier perspective out there. Feel free to ignore.
I actually feel like there are many elements of religion and cults as a whole, that have actively kept us as a species from pushing forth new ideas and better tomorrows. Think about what the masses of death have been in the name of in history, the leading cause of destruction on this planet, the forced ideations by rulers. Sacrificing babies, virgins, women, so on and so forth*.
How about the amount of lost history, lost science, lost knowledge due to the NEED to conquer in the name of any “lord and savior” that has continued for thousands of years. The laws to this day that have been skewered in the direction of religious approval, the unwillingness to update a book written before people knew how to properly bathe themselves.
The world is too gray for that kind of black and white outlook in my eyes. No one controls me but me, I might believe in destiny, but that’s by no religious origin. I believe there’s untold powers out there, untold energy sources out in the Infinite, but by no means do I believe it was based in anything we could fathom here as merely specs of microbial dust in the wider scheme of things.
But again, I don’t mean to shove my views down anyones throat, these are my views and mine alone. I just feel this universe is a lot bigger and a lot older than books that told you how to act or else you’d face “eternal damnation”.
Someone once said “The only difference between a cult and a religion is the amount of real estate they own”. Looking at all the horrendous things done commercially, horrifically, physically, and mentally, in the name of a higher power. I can see the comparison.
I actually feel like there are many elements of religion and cults as a whole, that have actively kept us as a species from pushing forth new ideas and better tomorrows. Think about what the masses of death have been in the name of in history, the leading cause of destruction on this planet, the forced ideations by rulers. Sacrificing babies, virgins, women, so on and so forth*.
How about the amount of lost history, lost science, lost knowledge due to the NEED to conquer in the name of any “lord and savior” that has continued for thousands of years. The laws to this day that have been skewered in the direction of religious approval, the unwillingness to update a book written before people knew how to properly bathe themselves.
The world is too gray for that kind of black and white outlook in my eyes. No one controls me but me, I might believe in destiny, but that’s by no religious origin. I believe there’s untold powers out there, untold energy sources out in the Infinite, but by no means do I believe it was based in anything we could fathom here as merely specs of microbial dust in the wider scheme of things.
But again, I don’t mean to shove my views down anyones throat, these are my views and mine alone. I just feel this universe is a lot bigger and a lot older than books that told you how to act or else you’d face “eternal damnation”.
Someone once said “The only difference between a cult and a religion is the amount of real estate they own”. Looking at all the horrendous things done commercially, horrifically, physically, and mentally, in the name of a higher power. I can see the comparison.
Last edited by _JNavs_ on Sat Dec 03, 2022 5:24 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: What religion are you?
Fun fact : In earlier forms of Judaism, God and Satan didn't have the same adversarial relationship we know today. Satan was originally the one who carried out God's dirty work. However, after Cyrus II of Persia (also known as Cyrus the Great) liberated the Jews from Babylonian captivity, Zoroastrian influence creped into Judaism.HedorahIsBestGirl wrote: ↑Sat Dec 03, 2022 3:37 pm I used to be religious but I never believed that God was a perfect force of good. I actually used to believe that God and Satan were two sides of the same diving being. Only way I could rationalize some of the horrible shit God does in the Old Testament.
Traditionally Zoroastrianism has two main deities, one good (Ahura Mazda) and one evil (Angra Mainyu). As a result of being exposed to the religion of their saviors, The Isrealites decided to re-write their religious canon. Instead, they made it so that God and Satan were opposing forces.
Last edited by LegendZilla on Sat Dec 03, 2022 5:18 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: What religion are you?
When it comes to my view on Christianity, I take what’s in the OT very loosely. Judaism is beautiful, but I ultimately believe the words of Jesus and his teachings. I find the NT infinitely more valuable to my life as a Christian. The mosaic laws mean little in the face of salvation via Christ.
I hope I didn’t offend anyone with what I’ve said. Religion is an important part of my adult life.
I hope I didn’t offend anyone with what I’ve said. Religion is an important part of my adult life.
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Re: What religion are you?
EDIT: whoops, missed an entire page of discussion. This is just in response to Voyager's first post.
All right. That all sounds good. We all have a choice to make, and God kindly allows us the freedom to make our own decisions.
The problem is that if you choose not to love Him (and is love really voluntary, anyway?), this undetectable being who hides Himself in another dimension, He will eternally torture you. Torture. Pain we can't even imagine, and it does... not... ever.... stop. All the pain inflicted by every human sinner that will ever live doesn't approach the smallest fraction of what Hell is.
Is this really a choice?
All right. That all sounds good. We all have a choice to make, and God kindly allows us the freedom to make our own decisions.
The problem is that if you choose not to love Him (and is love really voluntary, anyway?), this undetectable being who hides Himself in another dimension, He will eternally torture you. Torture. Pain we can't even imagine, and it does... not... ever.... stop. All the pain inflicted by every human sinner that will ever live doesn't approach the smallest fraction of what Hell is.
Is this really a choice?
Last edited by JAGzilla on Sat Dec 03, 2022 9:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What religion are you?
So I can choose to sin or not, but the latter comes with the giant caveat that I have to swear my undying fealty to someone else?Voyager wrote: ↑Sat Dec 03, 2022 1:54 pmIf someone is a sinner, and they come to Jesus, the burden of their sins is lifted off them and placed onto Christ. Without accepting the way out, there's no one else to face your punishment but you. God has no pleasure in the death and torture of the wicked, nor does He take pleasure in the death of anyone. That's why He has made a way for us to be saved. To turn from our evil ways of hatred, deceit, insult, etc. He has plead with people to turn away from their sins. God's all loving nature and His justice seem like they'd come into conflict. His love for us demands reconciliation and forgiveness, whilst His justice demands punishment for sin. It really seems like they'd get in the way of each other, but they don't thanks to Christ. Christ takes our death penalty of sin and places it upon himself, he bore all of the punishment for all of our sins once we find faith in him. It is also a show of God's love for us that He'd send Himself to endure the punishment of sin, all so we do not have to. So, God has made a to receive forgiveness for our sinful ways-- to accept Jesus' sacrifice. If you do not accept this, it is only fair that you get the punishment you originally would have faced. You did not accept Jesus as your saviour, so the penalty of sin is on nobody but yourself.Spirit Ghidorah 2010 wrote: ↑Sat Dec 03, 2022 1:08 pmIf one option nets you a ticket to heaven, while the other condemns you to eternal damnation, then that's not a choice. That's duress.
That's not a choice. That's an Elizabeth Smart hostage crisis.
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Re: What religion are you?
Undying fealty? Loving Jesus and His teachings isn’t the torturous task you’re making it out to be. I’m not sure I understand why you’re being aggressive and demeaning. I’m not coming here to convert anyone or nothing.Spirit Ghidorah 2010 wrote: ↑Sat Dec 03, 2022 9:15 pmSo I can choose to sin or not, but the latter comes with the giant caveat that I have to swear my undying fealty to someone else?Voyager wrote: ↑Sat Dec 03, 2022 1:54 pmIf someone is a sinner, and they come to Jesus, the burden of their sins is lifted off them and placed onto Christ. Without accepting the way out, there's no one else to face your punishment but you. God has no pleasure in the death and torture of the wicked, nor does He take pleasure in the death of anyone. That's why He has made a way for us to be saved. To turn from our evil ways of hatred, deceit, insult, etc. He has plead with people to turn away from their sins. God's all loving nature and His justice seem like they'd come into conflict. His love for us demands reconciliation and forgiveness, whilst His justice demands punishment for sin. It really seems like they'd get in the way of each other, but they don't thanks to Christ. Christ takes our death penalty of sin and places it upon himself, he bore all of the punishment for all of our sins once we find faith in him. It is also a show of God's love for us that He'd send Himself to endure the punishment of sin, all so we do not have to. So, God has made a to receive forgiveness for our sinful ways-- to accept Jesus' sacrifice. If you do not accept this, it is only fair that you get the punishment you originally would have faced. You did not accept Jesus as your saviour, so the penalty of sin is on nobody but yourself.Spirit Ghidorah 2010 wrote: ↑Sat Dec 03, 2022 1:08 pm
If one option nets you a ticket to heaven, while the other condemns you to eternal damnation, then that's not a choice. That's duress.
That's not a choice. That's an Elizabeth Smart hostage crisis.
I’ll just keep trusting in Jesus and living my life. Bless you all, truly
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Re: What religion are you?
Just taking the time to put your faith into Jesus isn't a choice? Now I've heard everything.Spirit Ghidorah 2010 wrote: ↑Sat Dec 03, 2022 9:15 pmSo I can choose to sin or not, but the latter comes with the giant caveat that I have to swear my undying fealty to someone else?Voyager wrote: ↑Sat Dec 03, 2022 1:54 pmIf someone is a sinner, and they come to Jesus, the burden of their sins is lifted off them and placed onto Christ. Without accepting the way out, there's no one else to face your punishment but you. God has no pleasure in the death and torture of the wicked, nor does He take pleasure in the death of anyone. That's why He has made a way for us to be saved. To turn from our evil ways of hatred, deceit, insult, etc. He has plead with people to turn away from their sins. God's all loving nature and His justice seem like they'd come into conflict. His love for us demands reconciliation and forgiveness, whilst His justice demands punishment for sin. It really seems like they'd get in the way of each other, but they don't thanks to Christ. Christ takes our death penalty of sin and places it upon himself, he bore all of the punishment for all of our sins once we find faith in him. It is also a show of God's love for us that He'd send Himself to endure the punishment of sin, all so we do not have to. So, God has made a to receive forgiveness for our sinful ways-- to accept Jesus' sacrifice. If you do not accept this, it is only fair that you get the punishment you originally would have faced. You did not accept Jesus as your saviour, so the penalty of sin is on nobody but yourself.Spirit Ghidorah 2010 wrote: ↑Sat Dec 03, 2022 1:08 pm
If one option nets you a ticket to heaven, while the other condemns you to eternal damnation, then that's not a choice. That's duress.
That's not a choice. That's an Elizabeth Smart hostage crisis.
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Re: What religion are you?
I absolutely respect your decision to not put your heart with Jesus but it is rather ridiculous to say that it isn’t a choice to choose Jesus. I can’t speak for the billions who have heard of Jesus yet aren’t christians, but I made a conscious choice to turn to Jesus at 18 years of age. I was raised christian, lost faith, but of my own volition came back.
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Re: What religion are you?
It definitely is a choice. That's plain. The problem is that the alternative choice is eternal torture. You choose between loving Jesus, or Jesus hurting you. A lot.
And I'll throw out my own disclaimer here that I respect everyone's beliefs, I see plenty of good in Christianity, and I'm not trying to convert anyone. It's just that I see holes in the narrative, they ruin my ability to believe, and I like honest objectivity.
Added in 1 hour 5 minutes 14 seconds:
I think a big part of the problem is that Jesus feels so small and removed from reality. He died for my soul and I can go to Heaven if I accept Him... okay, that's good.... but that doesn't solve anyone's problems here and now. I look around, and the world is so terribly, wonderfully, incomprehensibly chaotic. We're told to see life in terms of God vs. Evil. I dunno. Is God fighting plastic manufacturers? Is he trying to shut down tobacco or alcohol companies? Is he concerned about politicians that lie their way into office to pocket tax money? Iron mongers? Human traffickers? We're told He cares about the sparrow in the field, but He doesn't protect that sparrow from the hawk that has no choice but to kill sparrows to feed itself.
Christianity is the world's largest religion. Billions of people have accepted Jesus at this point, and yet... the world is still the same as ever. The strong eat the weak before being eaten themselves. Evil and death and suffering are everywhere and every lifeform is just trying to make it through another day.
I dunno. I'm kinda just rambling at this point, I don't know how coherent any of this is.
And I'll throw out my own disclaimer here that I respect everyone's beliefs, I see plenty of good in Christianity, and I'm not trying to convert anyone. It's just that I see holes in the narrative, they ruin my ability to believe, and I like honest objectivity.
Added in 1 hour 5 minutes 14 seconds:
I think a big part of the problem is that Jesus feels so small and removed from reality. He died for my soul and I can go to Heaven if I accept Him... okay, that's good.... but that doesn't solve anyone's problems here and now. I look around, and the world is so terribly, wonderfully, incomprehensibly chaotic. We're told to see life in terms of God vs. Evil. I dunno. Is God fighting plastic manufacturers? Is he trying to shut down tobacco or alcohol companies? Is he concerned about politicians that lie their way into office to pocket tax money? Iron mongers? Human traffickers? We're told He cares about the sparrow in the field, but He doesn't protect that sparrow from the hawk that has no choice but to kill sparrows to feed itself.
Christianity is the world's largest religion. Billions of people have accepted Jesus at this point, and yet... the world is still the same as ever. The strong eat the weak before being eaten themselves. Evil and death and suffering are everywhere and every lifeform is just trying to make it through another day.
I dunno. I'm kinda just rambling at this point, I don't know how coherent any of this is.
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Re: What religion are you?
Having to put my faith into someone I've never met under the threat that the alternative is to be condemned to eternity in Hell isn't coercion? Now I've heard everything.CamtheGodzillafan wrote: ↑Sat Dec 03, 2022 11:16 pmJust taking the time to put your faith into Jesus isn't a choice? Now I've heard everything.
Also, how am I being demeaning/aggressive? I didn't say Christians are stupid, or that Christianity itself is a bad religion. I'm pointing out how having to love someone when I have a divine gun to my head isn't the "choice" everyone's makes it out to be.
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Re: What religion are you?
I don’t have any answers, nobody does. As a christian I only have faith that God makes it all right in the end. That’s all we can do and I’m content with it. I’m just a single person in a big universe. I can only trust that God makes it right. Faith is my rock. I might seem like an inactive and non-partisan schmuck for being like that but hey, I’m not very outspoken when it comes to most real world issues
It has been a good discussion, and I don’t see us coming to a comprise or changing any opinions, which is alright. If I’m wrong about everything, that’s okay, and I’d be content with that. Even if we remove the religious aspect, Jesus’ teachings are still among the best throughout history. Love your fellow man, treat others as you wished to be treated, forgive others, etc. That’s a takeaway Christians and non-Christians should both value. I’m willing to accept that most if not all christian doctrine from the first accounts of Jesus are completely wrong, and that’s okay.
I’ll keep doing what I’m doing because it works for me. Jesus’ teachings have been instrumental in recent times for me and I couldn’t thank Him enough for it. I want no quarrel and I’m sure that you guys are all fantastic people I’d have a pleasure meeting.
If I must give one piece of advice to everybody involved in this discussion, christian or non christian, it has to be; Love will always win. Love is the greatest force in the world.
I’m too tired to continue this discussion, to be frank. Peace be upon you all, have a great day
It has been a good discussion, and I don’t see us coming to a comprise or changing any opinions, which is alright. If I’m wrong about everything, that’s okay, and I’d be content with that. Even if we remove the religious aspect, Jesus’ teachings are still among the best throughout history. Love your fellow man, treat others as you wished to be treated, forgive others, etc. That’s a takeaway Christians and non-Christians should both value. I’m willing to accept that most if not all christian doctrine from the first accounts of Jesus are completely wrong, and that’s okay.
I’ll keep doing what I’m doing because it works for me. Jesus’ teachings have been instrumental in recent times for me and I couldn’t thank Him enough for it. I want no quarrel and I’m sure that you guys are all fantastic people I’d have a pleasure meeting.
If I must give one piece of advice to everybody involved in this discussion, christian or non christian, it has to be; Love will always win. Love is the greatest force in the world.
I’m too tired to continue this discussion, to be frank. Peace be upon you all, have a great day
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Re: What religion are you?
Yeah, don't worry about it, Voyager. Nobody expects you to give actual answers or solutions to any of this. If you could, they'd probably make you the Pope.
And I've come across as more negative than I am in this discussion. I can find any number of good things in the world to balance the bad, and rationalize theological explanations and justifications for problems.
A non-religious source of comfort/amusement that I find in life is history. It helps to know that all of my current experiences, everything going on in the world today, good or bad, is eventually going to be someone's history. Bored kids are going to sit through history class taking notes on the COVID-19 pandemic and Donald Trump's presidency and the Ukraine War, wondering why anyone cares to remember this junk. An inaccurate blurb summarizing the half-remembered events of my lifetime will be someone's Civilization DXVI loading screen. "All hail President Trump, God-Emperor of the American Empire! Your people were once the noble rulers of the world, but they have fallen. Dying of a terrible virus, mired in a swamp of political crookedness, invaded by enemies bringing drugs and crime, they cry out for leadership! Build mighty walls to defend the land of freedom! Lead your forces to victory in space! Pwn the libs and protect the rights of your citizens! Drown out the fake news with the voice of truth! Can you make America great again? Can you build a civilization to stand the test of time?"
And I've come across as more negative than I am in this discussion. I can find any number of good things in the world to balance the bad, and rationalize theological explanations and justifications for problems.
A non-religious source of comfort/amusement that I find in life is history. It helps to know that all of my current experiences, everything going on in the world today, good or bad, is eventually going to be someone's history. Bored kids are going to sit through history class taking notes on the COVID-19 pandemic and Donald Trump's presidency and the Ukraine War, wondering why anyone cares to remember this junk. An inaccurate blurb summarizing the half-remembered events of my lifetime will be someone's Civilization DXVI loading screen. "All hail President Trump, God-Emperor of the American Empire! Your people were once the noble rulers of the world, but they have fallen. Dying of a terrible virus, mired in a swamp of political crookedness, invaded by enemies bringing drugs and crime, they cry out for leadership! Build mighty walls to defend the land of freedom! Lead your forces to victory in space! Pwn the libs and protect the rights of your citizens! Drown out the fake news with the voice of truth! Can you make America great again? Can you build a civilization to stand the test of time?"
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Re: What religion are you?
Im a big fan of Jesus and his teachings. Really, I am, and I wish more people would follow those teachings (most Christians do not). I don't see him as some eternal savior or anything, we have no way of proving the legitimacy of the bible and chances are someone robbed his grave after he died. Makes a lot more sense than him coming back. I actually think connecting Jesus the person to this God character hurts his teachings more than anything. Jesus was a loving, peaceful caring person, God mass murders people who don't follow his precise vision and gives cancer to babies. Jesus was an innocent preacher of compassion who was killed by a police state. God punishes the whole of the people of a land because of the actions of a select few. Where is this "all loving" God Christians speak of.
My perspective, generally, is that its impossible for me to see God as anything but the villain in the story, and Lucifer, the light bringer, the giver of knowledge, as the hero. The one who fought for what he believed in against a literal infinite god with a zero percent chance of success, yet he did it. That's a very inspiring story to me. To carve your own path and not be held back by arbitrary rules that exist purely because a bunch of dead people years ago who knew nothing of modern science and had a very poor understanding of the world said that it was a good idea.
Part of me wonders if people will see Harry Potter as some religious text in a thousand years time. For all we know, the Bible could have literally been a story book. We cannot prove one way or another but people are so committed to having faith in it that they are willing to die for it, or take away people's rights and freedoms for it. That's just so weird to me. They care so much about upholding how others act based on an ancient story book but care so little about taking the actual meat of the words to heart. Utterly fascinating.
And I should say that this same thing applies to the Quran or the Bhagavad-Gita or whatever else. But at least here in the States neither of those religions have any governing power and therefore aren't really a threat to anyone's livelihood. Some of the Christians in power in this country would have my girlfriend killed for being bisexual and me for being a satanist.
My perspective, generally, is that its impossible for me to see God as anything but the villain in the story, and Lucifer, the light bringer, the giver of knowledge, as the hero. The one who fought for what he believed in against a literal infinite god with a zero percent chance of success, yet he did it. That's a very inspiring story to me. To carve your own path and not be held back by arbitrary rules that exist purely because a bunch of dead people years ago who knew nothing of modern science and had a very poor understanding of the world said that it was a good idea.
Part of me wonders if people will see Harry Potter as some religious text in a thousand years time. For all we know, the Bible could have literally been a story book. We cannot prove one way or another but people are so committed to having faith in it that they are willing to die for it, or take away people's rights and freedoms for it. That's just so weird to me. They care so much about upholding how others act based on an ancient story book but care so little about taking the actual meat of the words to heart. Utterly fascinating.
And I should say that this same thing applies to the Quran or the Bhagavad-Gita or whatever else. But at least here in the States neither of those religions have any governing power and therefore aren't really a threat to anyone's livelihood. Some of the Christians in power in this country would have my girlfriend killed for being bisexual and me for being a satanist.
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Re: What religion are you?
Just my two cents, I guess. I was raised Christian, and really did believe in God and Jesus' sacrifice up until my teenage years.
The big problem that I eventually encountered was that the very texts that, as Hamster pointed out, are used as justification for horrible rhetoric and action (specifically here in America, my home) aren't even close to the texts as they were originally intended to be read. You read the Quran, to my knowledge, it's pretty much unchanged, even in English. Same with Hebrew texts. The Bible has been twisted and shifted and edited to support various regimes and leaders. Even going by these available, filtered versions of the texts, would God allow that to happen? "Sure buddy, use My Word to support your shitty regime and encourage people to pay taxes! Fuck the gays btw (which I made that way ofc)"
And for the record, I don't hate religion at all. I think faith is one of the most important and beautiful aspects of humanity. And I certainly don't project my own perceptions on anyone who does believe in Christianity, in whatever form.
The big problem that I eventually encountered was that the very texts that, as Hamster pointed out, are used as justification for horrible rhetoric and action (specifically here in America, my home) aren't even close to the texts as they were originally intended to be read. You read the Quran, to my knowledge, it's pretty much unchanged, even in English. Same with Hebrew texts. The Bible has been twisted and shifted and edited to support various regimes and leaders. Even going by these available, filtered versions of the texts, would God allow that to happen? "Sure buddy, use My Word to support your shitty regime and encourage people to pay taxes! Fuck the gays btw (which I made that way ofc)"
And for the record, I don't hate religion at all. I think faith is one of the most important and beautiful aspects of humanity. And I certainly don't project my own perceptions on anyone who does believe in Christianity, in whatever form.
Kaltes-Herzeleid wrote: ↑Thu Jan 06, 2022 9:44 am I love Final Wars. I praise Final Wars. Simple as.
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Re: What religion are you?
Describing it as a gun to your head is not accurate, a lot of Christians aren't very aggressive about this sort of thing, but some are, and they got to stop. But hey, if you want to live a sinful life, who am I to stop you?Spirit Ghidorah 2010 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 04, 2022 2:31 amHaving to put my faith into someone I've never met under the threat that the alternative is to be condemned to eternity in Hell isn't coercion? Now I've heard everything.CamtheGodzillafan wrote: ↑Sat Dec 03, 2022 11:16 pmJust taking the time to put your faith into Jesus isn't a choice? Now I've heard everything.
Also, how am I being demeaning/aggressive? I didn't say Christians are stupid, or that Christianity itself is a bad religion. I'm pointing out how having to love someone when I have a divine gun to my head isn't the "choice" everyone's makes it out to be.
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Re: What religion are you?
I think some of you are putting a lot of weight on Voyager, for things he actually hasn't done/hasn't said anything about and should probably lay off. He isn't trying to convince you of anything, so I don't get why some of you are tying to get him to change his mind. It at least comes off as that.
I think the true issue at hand is hierarchies of power and influence, not belief or lack of belief in some higher power. The former goes hand in hand with whatever it is that keeps them in power. If religion can be used as a cudgel by the state to help oppress people, it will do so. And if religion is seen as a threat by the state tbecause it is seen as a path to liberation from an oppressive regime, the state will find its enemy in religion. This has always been the issue at hand, not concepts of faith or lack thereof. Hierarchies of power will always corrupt. Peter Kropotkin and Leo Tolstoy were absolutely right about this the entire time.
I think the true issue at hand is hierarchies of power and influence, not belief or lack of belief in some higher power. The former goes hand in hand with whatever it is that keeps them in power. If religion can be used as a cudgel by the state to help oppress people, it will do so. And if religion is seen as a threat by the state tbecause it is seen as a path to liberation from an oppressive regime, the state will find its enemy in religion. This has always been the issue at hand, not concepts of faith or lack thereof. Hierarchies of power will always corrupt. Peter Kropotkin and Leo Tolstoy were absolutely right about this the entire time.
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Re: What religion are you?
I'm on Voyager's side here.StardustGenius wrote: ↑Sun Dec 04, 2022 11:07 am I think some of you are putting a lot of weight on Voyager, for things he actually hasn't done/hasn't said anything about and should probably lay off. He isn't trying to convince you of anything, so I don't get why some of you are tying to get him to change his mind. It at least comes off as that.
I think the true issue at hand is hierarchies of power and influence, not belief or lack of belief in some higher power. The former goes hand in hand with whatever it is that keeps them in power. If religion can be used as a cudgel by the state to help oppress people, it will do so. And if religion is seen as a threat by the state tbecause it is seen as a path to liberation from an oppressive regime, the state will find its enemy in religion. This has always been the issue at hand, not concepts of faith or lack thereof. Hierarchies of power will always corrupt. Peter Kropotkin and Leo Tolstoy were absolutely right about this the entire time.