Talkback Thread #20: Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla II (1993)

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Re: Talkback Thread #20: Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla II (1993)

Post by Voyager »

LegendZilla wrote: Tue Apr 12, 2022 7:56 pm
Voyager wrote: Tue Apr 12, 2022 7:53 pm
LegendZilla wrote: Tue Apr 12, 2022 7:38 pm

You could say the same for the Showa.
Showa never presents itself as consistent. Heisei tries to.
I personally don’t care. If the Heisei tried to and succeeded, more people will be warmer to the idea of a multi-film continuity with Godzilla.
What? That has nothing to do with what we’re discussing. I’m saying inconsistency hurts Heisei more than Showa because the Heisei series tries to have a coherent continuity, whereas Showa is a loose continuity. And people are already warm to a multi film continuity with Godzilla. For years the Heisei series was worshipped as the pinnacle of the franchise, and need I remind you that the MonsterVerse exists?
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Re: Talkback Thread #20: Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla II (1993)

Post by Major sssspielberg! »

Come on y'all, don't you know anything? There's an acceptable cuteness to radioactivity ratio and Baby clearly fell more towards the cute.
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Re: Talkback Thread #20: Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla II (1993)

Post by Legion1979 »

LegendZilla wrote: Tue Apr 12, 2022 7:49 pm
godjacob wrote: Tue Apr 12, 2022 7:40 pm
LegendZilla wrote: Tue Apr 12, 2022 7:38 pm

You could say the same for the Showa.
Yeah radiation poisoning is just something Godzilla films in general don't mention.
If the Heisei films in general were made back in the Showa era, people might be more forgiving of their faults.
They would have been COMPLETELY DIFFERENT MOVIES. So this comment makes absolutely no sense.
Last edited by Legion1979 on Wed Apr 13, 2022 8:50 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Talkback Thread #20: Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla II (1993)

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It just occurred to me that this movie is the last time Godzilla has achieved a genuine victory against MG. KKvG was Kong's.

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Re: Talkback Thread #20: Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla II (1993)

Post by Janjira-York »

honestly for years the more realistic baby godzilla look was my favorite for the prince of the monsters

BUUUUUT



ive kinda grown to love his fat little loook in GVSG, Imagine if the films had stablished him earlier or being more film between this and destoroyah seeing him grom into the fat cuddly kid and then slim down

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Re: Talkback Thread #20: Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla II (1993)

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Janjira-York wrote: Wed Oct 19, 2022 5:38 pm honestly for years the more realistic baby godzilla look was my favorite for the prince of the monsters

BUUUUUT



ive kinda grown to love his fat little loook in GVSG, Imagine if the films had stablished him earlier or being more film between this and destoroyah seeing him grom into the fat cuddly kid and then slim down
GVSG’s Baby Godzilla looks too much like a child’s toy. If Toho had collaborated with Jim Henson to make Toho Babies he might fit right in alongside a Baby Rodan and a Baby Ghidorah, but he is out of place in GVSG and detracts from the film. A larger version of the Baby Godzilla from GVMG2 would have been a better transition to Junior.

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Re: Talkback Thread #20: Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla II (1993)

Post by canofhumdingers »

As my kids and I work our way through the Heisei series for their first time ever, we watched this yesterday. It’s not my favorite Godzilla movie but it has a lot to enjoy. For all the “beam wars” gripes against the Heisei films, there’s still quite a lot of tooth and claw. The battle between Big G and Rodan in the beginning is pretty much nothing but. And even in his fight against MechaGodzilla, Goji gets in plenty of throws, tail slams, and the like.

I was also struck by how dark and gritty a lot of the film looked. Like, in a good way. Much of the film takes place at night and many of the night battles reminded me of the type of lighting from the original Terminator. Especially with the gleaming silver MechaGodzilla.

It was also fun watching Godzilla stomp through the major landmarks of Kyoto and being able to point them out to the kids that their mom and I had been to many of them ~15 years ago. They got a kick out of imagining us being stomped on by the big guy.

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Re: Talkback Thread #20: Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla II (1993)

Post by edgaguirus »

Well done on creating the next generation of Godzilla fans.

The second battle between Godzilla and MG has a brutal physical beatdown of the robot. The way Godzilla was striking MG made me think the arm might come off.
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Re: Talkback Thread #20: Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla II (1993)

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Can doing God’s work by cementing a foundation for the Gen Alpha fanbase :clap:
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Re: Talkback Thread #20: Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla II (1993)

Post by HedorahIsBestGirl »

I rewatched this film last night. It's always been a favorite of mine and it tends to be very popular among your "garden variety" Godzilla fans. On TK, it receives a rather lukewarm reception. This is one of very few cases where I tend to side with the "casuals." But last night, I tried to look at GvMG2 as objectively as possible. How's it hold up? You can read my full thoughts or you can skip to the end for a nice little TL:DR.

The Positive:
- I feel like special effects work is much more consistent here than the other 90s films (shallow praise, perhaps). I guess Kawakita and co. really brought their A game. Well, their A- game at least. There are definite blemishes but the kaiju costumes, miniatures, beam animations, etc. are all very good, especially when you contrast them directly against those in the films immediately before and after this one.
- Between the improved effects work and some deft camerawork, the kaiju fights are very, very good. I can definitively say this film has the best battle scenes of any Heisei movie, and some of the best in the series overall. To counter the tired "Beam Wars" criticism, Rodan's fight with Godzilla is a very physical battle. Rodan's fight with Mechagodzilla and Godzilla's second fight with his robotic counterpart also have some nice physical moments to offset the beam spam. Sure, there's lots of beams flying around but that doesn't bother me; this is Mechagodzilla we're dealing with, after all. The fights are also very well-paced, which is nice; most Heisei fights are either over too-soon (Biollante) or drag on forever (Space Godzilla).
- I'm probably in the minority on this, but I like Kazuma. Reminds me of Gengo from Godzilla vs. Gigan. They're both lovable dorks. He's also active in the plot throughout the film, which is nice; the main protagonists of the previous two movies just stand there and watch for most of the final act, which became annoyingly commonplace as the Godzilla series went on. I'm also glad Miki was given something to do after being next to worthless in GvKG and GvM. The rest of the cast is kinda "meh" but what do you expect; it's a Heisei movie.
- Ifukube's score is an 11/10 fucking banger. Enough said.
- Alright, I'm gonna put myself on the firing line here: I think that "life vs. artificial life" goes a little deeper than some give it credit for. If you read that as "big lizard fight big robot" then yeah, it's dumb as shit. But when you start thinking of all of humanity as artificial life, it opens up more room for analysis and interpretation. Think about it; throughout the film, all of the human characters, even the "good ones," just want to exploit or destroy the kaiju. The main conflict is set off when they steal the egg from Adona Island; had they left it alone, not a single person would've died because Godzilla and Rodan came after it. The second Baby hatches, what do they do? Start studying him to find a way to kill his "father." Humans are the bad guys in this one. Godzilla and Rodan become destructive only out of a desire to protect Baby. Until the admittedly rather heavy-handed dialogue at the end, this theme is actually surprisingly subtle for a Godzilla movie. It's easy to watch and see Godzilla as "the bad guy" once again. But while he was definitively portrayed as a villain in the first four Heisei films, this one suggests that he's really the victim. He's going about his natural instincts and getting relentlessly blasted by everything those pesky humans can throw at him for just existing. Who can blame him for getting pissed off? The way Mechagodzilla goes about methodically trying to kill both Godzilla and Rodan hammers this point home. MG's portrayed as an emotionless executioner, relentlessly assaulting the kaiju even after they're bloodied and beaten to the ground. Lingering shots of G&R lying helpless as MG looms over them and keeps on attacking effectively instill sympathy in the viewer.

The Negative:
- While I think this film has more thematic depth than it's credited with, I do wish that this theme had been examined more, perhaps by having the main characters more actively question if they're doing the right thing by trying to stop Godzilla, instead of just having regrets because "Baby is cute." It's touched on with Miki's reluctance but never really dwelled on. Trying to have some thematic depth was a big step in the right direction after the banality of GvM, but it's not quite there. Still, this is the first film in the Heisei era to really bring ambiguity or sympathy to Godzilla, and that's something I like.
- As I already commented several times above, GvMG2 is better than your average Heisei movie but it's far from perfect. There are still some crappy effects shots and the human cast is still mediocre compared to most of the Showa casts.
- The whole "ancient plant music" thing ranks right up there as one of the dumbest plot points in any of these movies.

In summary, is GvMG2 one of the all time great Godzilla movies? No. From both a technical and narrative standpoint, it's still vastly outclassed by a majority of the Showa films and the first two Heisei films. But Godzilla movies since 1989 have been more miss than hit, and this is one of my favorites of that era. For the Heisei series, I rank it a definitive third.

TL:DR - I like this movie because it makes humans the villains and kaiju sympathetic. It's also more technically competent than the other 90s Heisei movies. Still not up to Showa standards.
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Re: Talkback Thread #20: Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla II (1993)

Post by Legion1979 »

You know what? Yeah, this is very close to how I feel about this movie. One thing I'll say that you didn't is that this thing moves. There aren't many dull spots - the majority of the film includes special effects of some sort and there are a lot of monster scenes. Biollante might get the edge for being very experimental but I think this is the most fun Heisei film. Even it's weakest effects can't touch some of the embarassing stuff from King Ghidorah, which is also fun, but far more flawed.

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Re: Talkback Thread #20: Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla II (1993)

Post by MechaGoji Bro7503 »

I'll have to agree, this is one where I just have fun, especially with it being action packed. I've even come around on pteranodon guy.
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Re: Talkback Thread #20: Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla II (1993)

Post by MechaGoji Bro7503 »

Rewatched this last night and one sore shot that stuck out to me was after the final battle where Godzilla meets Junior. We see Godzilla looking down at Junior, and when we cut back to Godzilla's face it's clearly the 89/91 suit.....I was like "What?". It wasn't like Godzilla was in the ocean yet to warrant switching suits because it then cuts to a full body shot of Godzilla walking through the beach to the sea, and it's clearly the '93 suit. I wonder why they would have that short shot of an older suit when just minutes earlier they were showing off the animatronics of the new '93 suit? None of this is a dealbreaker but I found it interesting.
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Re: Talkback Thread #20: Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla II (1993)

Post by StardustGenius »

Kawakita's half of this movie is pretty strong, because it was the kind of stuff he was really into. Beams and mechas! I don't think its quite on the sophistication of GUNHED but its still pretty good. I still think Combiner Mechagodzilla was the better choice aesthetically.

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Re: Talkback Thread #20: Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla II (1993)

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MechaGoji Bro7503 wrote: Sat Dec 24, 2022 9:41 am Rewatched this last night and one sore shot that stuck out to me was after the final battle where Godzilla meets Junior. We see Godzilla looking down at Junior, and when we cut back to Godzilla's face it's clearly the 89/91 suit.....I was like "What?". It wasn't like Godzilla was in the ocean yet to warrant switching suits because it then cuts to a full body shot of Godzilla walking through the beach to the sea, and it's clearly the '93 suit. I wonder why they would have that short shot of an older suit when just minutes earlier they were showing off the animatronics of the new '93 suit? None of this is a dealbreaker but I found it interesting.
Much more frustrating is the fact that, until that shot, the sky was pitch black in all special effects scenes. But then we immediately switch to water tank shots filmed outdoors during the day. They tried to mask it using a filter but the scenes don't hook up at all with what's before of it. That draws your eyes to the older suit more than it would have otherwise.
Last edited by Legion1979 on Sat Dec 24, 2022 11:23 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Talkback Thread #20: Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla II (1993)

Post by ShinGojira14 »

MechaGoji Bro7503 wrote: Sat Dec 24, 2022 9:41 am Rewatched this last night and one sore shot that stuck out to me was after the final battle where Godzilla meets Junior. We see Godzilla looking down at Junior, and when we cut back to Godzilla's face it's clearly the 89/91 suit.....I was like "What?". It wasn't like Godzilla was in the ocean yet to warrant switching suits because it then cuts to a full body shot of Godzilla walking through the beach to the sea, and it's clearly the '93 suit. I wonder why they would have that short shot of an older suit when just minutes earlier they were showing off the animatronics of the new '93 suit? None of this is a dealbreaker but I found it interesting.
I'm pretty sure it was the '92 suit. They re-used it for any water scenes they filmed. The '93 suit would follow in this trend in the next two movies.
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Re: Talkback Thread #20: Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla II (1993)

Post by MechaGoji Bro7503 »

Legion1979 wrote: Sat Dec 24, 2022 11:22 am Much more frustrating is the fact that, until that shot, the sky was pitch black in all special effects scenes. But then we immediately switch to water tank shots filmed outdoors during the day. They tried to mask it using a filter but the scenes don't hook up at all with what's before of it. That draws your eyes to the older suit more than it would have otherwise.
That's very interesting, I hadn't considered the background looking different to that degree, I just assumed it was a case of that weird Heisei lighting. But it being outdoor day shots with a "night" filter makes sense now. Reminds me of how the production team tried making stock footage from GttHM match the night scenes in vs Gigan. Thanks for the insight Legion.
ShinGojira14 wrote: Sat Dec 24, 2022 4:28 pm I'm pretty sure it was the '92 suit. They re-used it for any water scenes they filmed. The '93 suit would follow in this trend in the next two movies.
Ah, gotcha. It probably was the '92 suit, however I do recall seeing the head shape of the 89/91 suit with the way the cranium looked.
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Re: Talkback Thread #20: Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla II (1993)

Post by Legion1979 »

ShinGojira14 wrote: Sat Dec 24, 2022 4:28 pm
MechaGoji Bro7503 wrote: Sat Dec 24, 2022 9:41 am Rewatched this last night and one sore shot that stuck out to me was after the final battle where Godzilla meets Junior. We see Godzilla looking down at Junior, and when we cut back to Godzilla's face it's clearly the 89/91 suit.....I was like "What?". It wasn't like Godzilla was in the ocean yet to warrant switching suits because it then cuts to a full body shot of Godzilla walking through the beach to the sea, and it's clearly the '93 suit. I wonder why they would have that short shot of an older suit when just minutes earlier they were showing off the animatronics of the new '93 suit? None of this is a dealbreaker but I found it interesting.
I'm pretty sure it was the '92 suit. They re-used it for any water scenes they filmed. The '93 suit would follow in this trend in the next two movies.
The suit we see as Godzilla turns away from Baby is definitely not the 1992 suit. That suit WAS used in this movie for the battle with Rodan, bit not at the end of the movie. There was a half suit built for water scenes in Godzilla VS Mothra and that's what we're seeing here.

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Re: Talkback Thread #20: Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla II (1993)

Post by LegendZilla »

I do like the interaction between Asuza and Aoki at the start where he puts the moves on her and she says he'll get a slap in the face. It was pretty amusing.
Last edited by LegendZilla on Thu Dec 29, 2022 5:19 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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