Talkback: Godzilla Final Wars (2004)

[Mac Daddy MM]

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Captain Gordon

Is a tedious character

Yeah, we'll just go ahead and disagree on that one. Dude is better and more memorable than 99% of every human character in any Godzilla movie, even if its because of his Bruce Campbell-esque one liners, IMO.

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I'll never forgot the story of what happened when a fan went up to Don Frye at a G-Fest and told him he was his favorite character in his favorite movie. Frye's reaction? "Too bad they both suck, kid."

I mean, if you're going to use that as an argument, does that mean all of Jun Fukuda's movies are garbage because he disowned them too? Or the OG Star Wars Obi-Wan is too because Alec Guinness despised the character?

[eabaker]

Added in 48 seconds:

Captain Gordon

Is a tedious character

Yeah, we'll just go ahead and disagree on that one. Dude is better and more memorable than 99% of every human character in any Godzilla movie, even if its because of his Bruce Campbell-esque one liners, IMO.

That's a real insult to Bruce Campbell and everyone who ever wrote dialogue for him!

[Mac Daddy MM]

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Is a tedious character

Yeah, we'll just go ahead and disagree on that one. Dude is better and more memorable than 99% of every human character in any Godzilla movie, even if its because of his Bruce Campbell-esque one liners, IMO.

That's a real insult to Bruce Campbell and everyone who ever wrote dialogue for him!

I don't know, man. Have you seen any of his non-Evil Dead films besides cameos and Bubba Ho-Tep?

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(and MM, who was probably stoned out of his gourd, said he didn't mean for it to read that way).

[Legion1979]

Yeah, we'll just go ahead and disagree on that one. Dude is better and more memorable than 99% of every human character in any Godzilla movie, even if its because of his Bruce Campbell-esque one liners, IMO.

Better? Nah. If he's memorable it's because the character is over the top and the performance is ridiculous. That's the reason most people like him. I've never heard anyone say he's a GOOD character. That's definitely a new one.

I'll take Serizawa, Dr Yamane, Mr Taco, the Shobijin, Glenn, the Crontroller of Planet X, Gengo and his buddies, and Katsura over Mr Douglas Gordon.

[eabaker]

Yeah, we'll just go ahead and disagree on that one. Dude is better and more memorable than 99% of every human character in any Godzilla movie, even if its because of his Bruce Campbell-esque one liners, IMO.

That's a real insult to Bruce Campbell and everyone who ever wrote dialogue for him!

I don't know, man. Have you seen any of his non-Evil Dead films besides cameos and Bubba Ho-Tep?

Fair point. But at least Campbell has some charisma and the ability to deliver a line as though he actually understands what the words and syntax mean. Frye just seems to be stumbling through phonetic imitation of a language he's never heard before.

[Mac Daddy MM]

Yeah, we'll just go ahead and disagree on that one. Dude is better and more memorable than 99% of every human character in any Godzilla movie, even if its because of his Bruce Campbell-esque one liners, IMO.

Better? Nah. If he's memorable it's because the character is over the top and the performance is ridiculous. That's the reason most people like him. I've never heard anyone say he's a GOOD character. That's definitely a new one.

I'll take Serizawa, Dr Yamane, Mr Taco, the Shobijin, Glenn, the Crontroller of Planet X, Gengo and his buddies, and Katsura over Mr Douglas Gordon.

I'll join ya' for Serizawa and Dr. Yamane and depending on which iteration of the Shobojin. I will always argue the cast of GvMZ is way overrated though. GvGigan did have corncob hippie, so that's a plus on your argument.

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That's a real insult to Bruce Campbell and everyone who ever wrote dialogue for him!

I don't know, man. Have you seen any of his non-Evil Dead films besides cameos and Bubba Ho-Tep?

Fair point. But at least Campbell has some charisma and the ability to deliver a line as though he actually understands what the words and syntax mean. Frye just seems to be stumbling through phonetic imitation of a language he's never heard before.

Yeah, but you know.

All you need to do is get a grip.

[eabaker]

I'll take Serizawa, Dr Yamane, Mr Taco, the Shobijin, Glenn, the Crontroller of Planet X, Gengo and his buddies, and Katsura over Mr Douglas Gordon.

That's a remarkably abbreviated list! I mean, the other leads in KKvsG, Sakai and Junko, Detective Shindo, Yoshimura, the entire leading cast of SoG, Mr. Shindo, the leads of G2K, Admiral Tachibana and Yuri, Akane, Rando Yaguchi...

[godjacob]

IDK, I really liked Frye not gonna like. Gordon is one of my fav Godzilla protagonists and feel his "bad acting" adds a charm value to the production that fits the mood of the film. I don't feel he is overbearing as a presence (He even spends a chunk of the first act locked up) and I just respect a guy who is willing to stand against Godzilla with a sword.

[eabaker]

IDK, I really liked Frye not gonna like. Gordon is one of my fav Godzilla protagonists and feel his "bad acting" adds a charm value to the production that fits the mood of the film. I don't feel he is overbearing as a presence (He even spends a chunk of the first act locked up) and I just respect a guy who is willing to stand against Godzilla with a sword.

Why is "bad acting" in quotes?

I mean, come on, we're not just talking about a clunky performance here, we're not just talking bad compared to mainstream American productions, we're talking bad relative to other occidental actors in Godzilla movies! He makes Leo Meneghetti look like Derek frickin' Jacobi!

[Mac Daddy MM]

IDK, I really liked Frye not gonna like. Gordon is one of my fav Godzilla protagonists and feel his "bad acting" adds a charm value to the production that fits the mood of the film. I don't feel he is overbearing as a presence (He even spends a chunk of the first act locked up) and I just respect a guy who is willing to stand against Godzilla with a sword.

100%. The bad acting and one liners is what makes him better than most aforementioned characters that I can barely remember the names of. Had to search on TK to remember who Gengo is when Legion mentioned him. There's nothing inherently wrong with most of the other human characters being named off, they just ain't memorable at all. And the ones that are, are usually ones I remember for reasons not because of their character/acting (Yuri from GMK )

[Legion1979]

Even Frye knew his performance and the character he played was bad. If he can admit it, why can't anyone else? Lol

He's enjoyable in a "holy shit I can't believe they hired a man with literally no acting skills" sort of way. I will absolutely not argue with that. If you find him entertaining more power to you. But "good" the performance and the character certainly are not.

And come on, MM, drop the shtick. I know you don't believe that Serizawa, the Shobijin, the Controller of Planet X and Glenn are not memorable characters. A handful of them have come iconic on their own. I know you like to say really out there things (especially if you're stoned) but what kind of a preductive discussion can be had if you're going to openinly shit on every human character in every Godzilla movie and insist that Gordon is BETTER than all of them?

I know you enjoy being "that guy" and having your fun but it's not fun to have a conversation if one person's MO is to talk nonsense.

[Mac Daddy MM]

Even Frye knew his performance and the character he played was bad. If he can admit it, why can't anyone else? Lol

Not a single person here has said his performance wasn't bad. My post right above you even says the bad acting is one of the reasons why Captain Gordon is so great. But once again, just because he says the character is bad, doesn't mean it is. Do you think Godzilla vs. The Sea Monster is bad because Jun Fukuda, the director, said it is?

[eabaker]

IDK, I really liked Frye not gonna like. Gordon is one of my fav Godzilla protagonists and feel his "bad acting" adds a charm value to the production that fits the mood of the film. I don't feel he is overbearing as a presence (He even spends a chunk of the first act locked up) and I just respect a guy who is willing to stand against Godzilla with a sword.

100%. The bad acting and one liners is what makes him better than most aforementioned characters that I can barely remember the names of. Had to search on TK to remember who Gengo is when Legion mentioned him. There's nothing inherently wrong with most of the other human characters being named off, they just ain't memorable at all. And the ones that are, are usually ones I remember for reasons not because of their character/acting (Yuri from GMK )

Your definition of "better" is mystifying to me.

And obviously the memorability of characters is a YMMV issue, but maybe you personally are just not particularly engaged with the human drama in these movies?

[Legion1979]

Lord, MM....

My G-Fest comnent was meant to be a fun anecdote, and not meant to prove anything. Its funny how Frye just didn't give a shit. I finished my second comment with an LOL because I wasn't being serious.

We all seem to be in agreement that the character and performance is bad. Great. The issue (for me at least) is you saying he's BETTER than literally ANYTHING ONE in the Godzilla series. Better how? I'm certain the only reason you're saying this is for the reaction you're getting from it. That's kind of your thing, right?

[godjacob]

IDK, I really liked Frye not gonna like. Gordon is one of my fav Godzilla protagonists and feel his "bad acting" adds a charm value to the production that fits the mood of the film. I don't feel he is overbearing as a presence (He even spends a chunk of the first act locked up) and I just respect a guy who is willing to stand against Godzilla with a sword.

100%. The bad acting and one liners is what makes him better than most aforementioned characters that I can barely remember the names of. Had to search on TK to remember who Gengo is when Legion mentioned him. There's nothing inherently wrong with most of the other human characters being named off, they just ain't memorable at all. And the ones that are, are usually ones I remember for reasons not because of their character/acting (Yuri from GMK )

Your definition of "better" is mystifying to me.

And obviously the memorability of characters is a YMMV issue, but maybe you personally are just not particularly engaged with the human drama in these movies?

And you do not have to be, but you shouldn't just question why other people do like the performance or think it works for the film, even if Frey is not a good actor. And I put "bad actor" in quotes because I still think his deadpan style delivery fits the character he was playing and works as a good contrast to the Xilien Leader's scene chewing masterpiece.

[Mac Daddy MM]

but maybe you personally are just not particularly engaged with the human drama in these movies?

Yeah, I'm not. Like, at all. I have never watched Godzilla movies for human characters except for like G'54. If we get good characters, that's a bonus. They help a lot and bad characters can really bog the movies down (Miki in GvSG, whom I will always contest is the absolute worst human character in the entire damn franchise and single handedly sinks the film for me). A good human character can really help the movie if its a slow burn (Rando, who I have come to appreciate A LOT more since 2016 and the obnoxious Anno hype died down in Shin Godzilla). Captain Gordon is so corny but at the same time badass that he steals every scene he's in.

[Legion1979]

And you do not have to be, but you shouldn't just question why other people do like the performance or think it works for the film, even if Frey is not a good actor. And I put "bad actor" in quotes because I still think his deadpan style delivery fits the character he was playing and works as a good contrast to the Xilien Leader's scene chewing masterpiece.

Thing is, no one is questioning why anyone would like Frye's performance or why it works. I know a lot of people who enjoy him in this movie. It's a stupid performance that benefits a stupid movie. Where me and eabaker are confused is with MM's insistance that Frye and his character are "better" and "more memorable" than almost 70 years of other Godzilla characters. THAT is what confuses me, though I also know a lot of it is just MM going "Check out the shit I'm about to stir" before he posts.

Of course he just admitted he doesn't give a crap about anything EXCEPT the monsters, so maybe I'm not so confused. Certainly explains why so many teenagers love FW and Douglas Gordon.

[Mac Daddy MM]

Even Frye knew his performance and the character he played was bad. If he can admit it, why can't anyone else? Lol

He's enjoyable in a "holy poop I can't believe they hired a man with literally no acting skills" sort of way. I will absolutely not argue with that. If you find him entertaining more power to you. But "good" the performance and the character certainly are not.

And come on, MM, drop the shtick. I know you don't believe that Serizawa, the Shobijin, the Controller of Planet X and Glenn are not memorable characters. A handful of them have come iconic on their own. I know you like to say really out there things (especially if you're stoned) but what kind of a preductive discussion can be had if you're going to openinly poop on every human character in every Godzilla movie and insist that Gordon is BETTER than all of them?

I know you enjoy being "that guy" and having your fun but it's not fun to have a conversation if one person's MO is to talk nonsense.

I'm actually not being "that guy" right now though, so...

Yes, the Controller of X is memorable, so is Glenn if only because of one cheesy line and the fact he's played by Nick Adams and he's fuckin' an alien. I also already agreed with the Shobojin. Do I find Mr. Taco "memorable?" No. I remember him because I've seen the movie 1000 times since I was born. The same goes for almost every other character mentioned here, like GMK's cast and the female pilots from GXM and GXMG. Just like I remember every other character too. But they're not memorable because they're actually unique and well written and well polished characters. Its simply because I've seen them 1000 times over.

Now if you want, I can switch gears and become "that guy" if you like.

[Legion1979]

Yeah, me and I'm sure the mods and admins would appreciate it if you didn't do that.

Now that you admitted you only watch movies for monsters and literally nothing else, your stance makes more sense.

[godjacob]

And you do not have to be, but you shouldn't just question why other people do like the performance or think it works for the film, even if Frey is not a good actor. And I put "bad actor" in quotes because I still think his deadpan style delivery fits the character he was playing and works as a good contrast to the Xilien Leader's scene chewing masterpiece.

Thing is, no one is questioning why anyone would like Frye's performance or why it works. I know a lot of people who enjoy him in this movie. It's a stupid performance that benefits a stupid movie. Where me and eabaker are confused is with MM's insistance that Frye and his character are "better" and "more memorable" than almost 70 years of other Godzilla characters. THAT is what confuses me, though I also know a lot of it is just MM going "Check out the poop I'm about to stir" before he posts.

Of course he just admitted he doesn't give a crap about anything EXCEPT the monsters, so maybe I'm not so confused. Certainly explains why so many teenagers love FW and Douglas Gordon.

I mean, I kinda agree with him. What makes a character "memorable" varies to people but Gordon does leave an impression in his film, he is a simple but fun character that matches the movie he is in. You may not like Gordon or think he is anything special, but clearly the character does connect with more people than you are willing to give credit.

I'd certainlly think he works better to leave a mark than a lot of Kaiju scientist/reporter leads which while better actors took them (Even legendary ones) sort of bleed into each other at a certain point.