Talkback Thread #4: Mothra vs. Godzilla (1964)

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Re: Talkback Thread #4: Mothra vs. Godzilla (1964)

Post by MekaGojira3k »

This is a weird one. It's a nigh PERFECT Godzilla film, but I think I re-watched it too often during the 2010s. Now I feel a little burned out on it. Plus as far as Mothra flicks go I'd rather pop in the original Mothra than this. Still in my top 5 tho'.

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Re: Talkback Thread #4: Mothra vs. Godzilla (1964)

Post by MaxRebo320 »

Mikio Naruse's Yearning has Yu Fujiki (Nakamura, the egg-eating reporter) challenging his employees to an egg-eating contest.

If that's not canon with this movie, I don't know what is.
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Re: Talkback Thread #4: Mothra vs. Godzilla (1964)

Post by Voyager »

MaxRebo320 wrote:Mikio Naruse's Yearning has Yu Fuiki (Nakamura, the egg-eating reporter) challenging his employees to an egg-eating contest.

If that's not canon with this movie, I don't know what is.
Looks like another movie added to my expanded Showa timeline...
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Re: Talkback Thread #4: Mothra vs. Godzilla (1964)

Post by Terasawa »

Mikio Naruse? What kaiju movies did he direct?
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Re: Talkback Thread #4: Mothra vs. Godzilla (1964)

Post by LegendZilla »

I will like to point out that I’m pretty sure I noticed stock footage from the previous film consisting of shots depicting construction vehicles. Try watching both KKvG and this film back-to-back.
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Re: Talkback Thread #4: Mothra vs. Godzilla (1964)

Post by Terasawa »

LegendZilla wrote: Sun Jan 17, 2021 11:48 pm I will like to point out that I’m pretty sure I noticed stock footage from the previous film consisting of shots depicting construction vehicles. Try watching both KKvG and this film back-to-back.
There are similar shots but none are the same between the two films.
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Re: Talkback Thread #4: Mothra vs. Godzilla (1964)

Post by godjacob »

An iconic classic to be sure and probably my favorite Mothra "origin" story film, but I can't get over how much of a clutz Godzilla is portrayed in this. Not sure if it was a suit issue or something else but when he stumbles in his city destruction bit it looks like he is drunk which makes it hard to sell the terror aspect of him.

And I know I'll probably get flack for this, but the ending sucks. Godzilla losing to newborn Mothra babies is not a heartwarming underdog victory avenging their mother but only serves to make Godzilla look utterly incompetent which takes me out of it. Easily his most humiliating loss.
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Re: Talkback Thread #4: Mothra vs. Godzilla (1964)

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godjacob wrote: Mon Jan 18, 2021 10:10 am An iconic classic to be sure and probably my favorite Mothra "origin" story film, but I can't get over how much of a clutz Godzilla is portrayed in this. Not sure if it was a suit issue or something else but when he stumbles in his city destruction bit it looks like he is drunk which makes it hard to sell the terror aspect of him.

And I know I'll probably get flack for this, but the ending sucks. Godzilla losing to newborn Mothra babies is not a heartwarming underdog victory avenging their mother but only serves to make Godzilla look utterly incompetent which takes me out of it. Easily his most humiliating loss.
He could’ve at least killed one of them.

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Re: Talkback Thread #4: Mothra vs. Godzilla (1964)

Post by eabaker »

That would have taken some of the magic out of it.
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Re: Talkback Thread #4: Mothra vs. Godzilla (1964)

Post by MaxRebo320 »

If it bugs you so goddamn much, you can easily surmise Godzilla was still weakened from the volts given to him a little earlier. That's probably the closest the military ever came to killing him.
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Re: Talkback Thread #4: Mothra vs. Godzilla (1964)

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MaxRebo320 wrote: Mon Jan 18, 2021 4:59 pm If it bugs you so goddamn much, you can easily surmise Godzilla was still weakened from the volts given to him a little earlier. That's probably the closest the military ever came to killing him.
And from his still-recent fight with the far more imposing and vicious imago Mothra.
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Re: Talkback Thread #4: Mothra vs. Godzilla (1964)

Post by godjacob »

LegendZilla wrote: Mon Jan 18, 2021 3:10 pm
godjacob wrote: Mon Jan 18, 2021 10:10 am An iconic classic to be sure and probably my favorite Mothra "origin" story film, but I can't get over how much of a clutz Godzilla is portrayed in this. Not sure if it was a suit issue or something else but when he stumbles in his city destruction bit it looks like he is drunk which makes it hard to sell the terror aspect of him.

And I know I'll probably get flack for this, but the ending sucks. Godzilla losing to newborn Mothra babies is not a heartwarming underdog victory avenging their mother but only serves to make Godzilla look utterly incompetent which takes me out of it. Easily his most humiliating loss.
He could’ve at least killed one of them.
This probably would have helped swallow the blow, and given we go back to one Mothra for the rest of the Showa series anyway would have made smoother continuity.
MaxRebo320 wrote: Mon Jan 18, 2021 4:59 pm If it bugs you so goddamn much, you can easily surmise Godzilla was still weakened from the volts given to him a little earlier. That's probably the closest the military ever came to killing him.
But it didn't, and Godzilla clearly shows no ill effects of the voltage in either of his battles with Mothra. This isn't King Kong vs. Godzilla where I could use my own childish head canon to say Godzilla tied to King rather than lost to him and have somewhat of a ground to stand on lol.

Also the fact it killed the Imago but lost to the babies right after makes his loss to the babies even worse. Since he (Again) shows no ill effects from the Mothra battle and lost more because two slow moving twins beat him with basic hide and seek tactics.
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Re: Talkback Thread #4: Mothra vs. Godzilla (1964)

Post by LSD Jellyfish »

While outright killing Godzilla, as is killing most monsters, is very difficult, I think Mothra, and Kumonga's threads are underrated in terms of usefulness. Early Showa Godzilla isn't exactly the most mobile, and it makes sense that he would get threaded like that. Similarly, Mothra gets Ghidorah good. Kumonga later kills Kamacuras due to it's threads, and if it wasn't for Minya Godzilla might have died as well. The ending to Mothra vs. Godzilla doesn't bother me because it's believable that Mothra's threads would be useful at impeding Godzilla's progress.
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Re: Talkback Thread #4: Mothra vs. Godzilla (1964)

Post by Kaltes-Herzeleid »

godjacob wrote: Mon Jan 18, 2021 5:30 pm Also the fact it killed the Imago but lost to the babies right after makes his loss to the babies even worse. Since he (Again) shows no ill effects from the Mothra battle and lost more because two slow moving twins beat him with basic hide and seek tactics.
Godzilla only killed the adult Mothra via a lucky shot from his atomic ray. Mothra was whooping his ass that whole fight. The babies won because they played it smart. Not that hard to accept really.
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Re: Talkback Thread #4: Mothra vs. Godzilla (1964)

Post by eabaker »

Plus, the adult Mothra was already dying before she left Infant Island.
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Re: Talkback Thread #4: Mothra vs. Godzilla (1964)

Post by AtomicMorningBreath »

godjacob wrote: Mon Jan 18, 2021 10:10 am An iconic classic to be sure and probably my favorite Mothra "origin" story film, but I can't get over how much of a clutz Godzilla is portrayed in this. Not sure if it was a suit issue or something else but when he stumbles in his city destruction bit it looks like he is drunk which makes it hard to sell the terror aspect of him.
I think that was just a mistake that was left in the film. If you watch it, you can clearly see Nakajima's foot get caught on something causing him to trip. My theory is that they had to stick with that take because there was an explosion at the end from Godzilla's atomic breath, so they could not just go back and do another take. So they went with it, Nakajima's trip and all.
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Re: Talkback Thread #4: Mothra vs. Godzilla (1964)

Post by godjacob »

LSD Jellyfish wrote: Mon Jan 18, 2021 5:44 pm While outright killing Godzilla, as is killing most monsters, is very difficult, I think Mothra, and Kumonga's threads are underrated in terms of usefulness. Early Showa Godzilla isn't exactly the most mobile, and it makes sense that he would get threaded like that. Similarly, Mothra gets Ghidorah good. Kumonga later kills Kamacuras due to it's threads, and if it wasn't for Minya Godzilla might have died as well. The ending to Mothra vs. Godzilla doesn't bother me because it's believable that Mothra's threads would be useful at impeding Godzilla's progress.
Again I am not denying the tensile strength of the webbing. It's easily one of the best weapons Mothra has in any era, my issue is more the grounds that two newborns are able to web Godzilla in full when the webbing process takes considerable time (Relative to other monster moves) and makes Godzilla's inability to do anything about it seem pathetic rather than speak well of the Mothra twins.
Kaltes-Herzeleid wrote: Mon Jan 18, 2021 5:50 pm
godjacob wrote: Mon Jan 18, 2021 5:30 pm Also the fact it killed the Imago but lost to the babies right after makes his loss to the babies even worse. Since he (Again) shows no ill effects from the Mothra battle and lost more because two slow moving twins beat him with basic hide and seek tactics.
Godzilla only killed the adult Mothra via a lucky shot from his atomic ray. Mothra was whooping his ass that whole fight. The babies won because they played it smart. Not that hard to accept really.
I mean Mothra wasn't really doing much damage to Godzilla to be kind. She dragged him around but her pollen attack ended up doing more damage to herself (Removing her flight) than it did actually stop Godzilla. Besides the Imago's capabilities were not where my issue lied just seems jarring even an "old" Mothra failed to do what her two children were able to do fresh out of the egg. That and Godzilla seemingly being dumber than a pair of babies is not the best reflection of the Big G in any scale.
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Re: Talkback Thread #4: Mothra vs. Godzilla (1964)

Post by Terasawa »

Ed G., from the Classic Media commentary:

"Although this Godzilla has a malevolent expression, and he causes a lot of destruction, if you think about what happens, Godzilla is not attacking any particular structure aside from the incubator--in which he senses the presence of an enemy--or maybe the artificial lightning towers, which actually attack him first. He destroys a TV tower and Nagoya Castle, sort of by accident. All of this seems more than just mere coincidence, so Honda and Sekizawa must have some kind of unstated motive behind this. It would seem that they were trying to show Godzilla as more of a force of nature, one which destroys more because of its mere existence rather than willfully and intentionally seeking out humans."

Shortly thereafter, Ryfle mentions that the Nagoya Castle sequence had to be reshot because, in the first take, Nakajima stumbled and the model didn't come apart as expected. The staff rebuilt a portion of it and utilized close ups to make the best of the scene.
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Re: Talkback Thread #4: Mothra vs. Godzilla (1964)

Post by MaxRebo320 »

godjacob wrote: Mon Jan 18, 2021 5:30 pmBut it didn't, and Godzilla clearly shows no ill effects of the voltage in either of his battles with Mothra. This isn't King Kong vs. Godzilla where I could use my own childish head canon to say Godzilla tied to King rather than lost to him and have somewhat of a ground to stand on lol.
The "voltage" sequence occurs after his battle with the Imago Mothra. With Mothra's poison powder combined with the voltage attacks, Godzilla being in a weakened state a few hours (?) later during his fight with the twins make complete, logical sense. But really, who cares?
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Re: Talkback Thread #4: Mothra vs. Godzilla (1964)

Post by edgaguirus »

Besides, Godzilla was the villain of this film, and the hero usually wins in movies.
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