New Monsterverse Godzilla or Toho Godzilla next?

[miguelnuva]

Toho next. There has been a Godzilla film every anniversary since 1964.

[vastatosaurus]

Toho will not give up to produce their own Godzilla movies. Shin earned massive profit for Toho. Probably much more than sum of Toho's share from G14 and KotM.

Oh yeah? Do you have any stats you can reference on the Shin profits vs royalties from Legendary?

Also, Shin’s success in Japan is going to be difficult to surpass.

As I looked over things again, I take back my word that Shin earned "much more" than sum of G14 and KotM. I didn't consider the production budget.

Toho possesses revenue from the Japanese box office of MV movies. And they get paid for the copyright royalty in advance.

G14 made $29m score in Japanese box office, KotM made $25m. So total $54m. Net profit about $27m.

Shin made $78 in worldwide. Net profit about $39m. But I didn't think about the production budget. Its budget was $15m so the net profit will be about $24m.

I thought Shin earned more money than the two MV movies in that Toho's royalty payment might not be so massive as something like over $20m. And that Toho gets all portion of the successful merchandise sales of Shin. But it turns out Shin might haven't beat the two movies together, considering the net profits. Might have beat the individual movies though.

But this field is still vague. There are articles saying Toho also invested 25%? amount of production budget of KotM.(Which means about $42m) If this is true, Toho might have suffered a deficit in KotM.

https://www.tohokingdom.com/blog/toho-e ... sion-plan/
https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Compan ... filmmakers

[KasZilla]

I feel we'll get a toho movie next. I'm ready for a toho movie already. A more traditional Godzilla.

[Vakanai]

Toho will not give up to produce their own Godzilla movies. Shin earned massive profit for Toho. Probably much more than sum of Toho's share from G14 and KotM.

Oh yeah? Do you have any stats you can reference on the Shin profits vs royalties from Legendary?

Also, Shin’s success in Japan is going to be difficult to surpass.

As I looked over things again, I take back my word that Shin earned "much more" than sum of G14 and KotM. I didn't consider the production budget.

Toho possesses revenue from the Japanese box office of MV movies. And they get paid for the copyright royalty in advance.

G14 made $29m score in Japanese box office, KotM made $25m. So total $54m. Net profit about $27m.

Shin made $78 in worldwide. Net profit about $39m. But I didn't think about the production budget. Its budget was $15m so the net profit will be about $24m.

I thought Shin earned more money than the two MV movies in that Toho's royalty payment might not be so massive as something like over $20m. And that Toho gets all portion of the successful merchandise sales of Shin. But it turns out Shin might haven't beat the two movies together, considering the net profits. Might have beat the individual movies though.

But this field is still vague. There are articles saying Toho also invested 25%? amount of production budget of KotM.(Which means about $42m) If this is true, Toho might have suffered a deficit in KotM.

https://www.tohokingdom.com/blog/toho-e ... sion-plan/
https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Compan ... filmmakers

And that's just the movies, once you start adding merchandise, all those Shin Godzilla shirts and cups and toys and other such things, plus the Shin Godzilla vs NGE ride and promotional stuff, the Shin Godzilla stuff at that new Godzilla museum and so on, and Shin becomes even more profitable for Toho. Yes, the MV Godzilla films are profitable and easy money for Toho, but there is clearly a ton of money to be made by putting effort into making their own movies for a domestic audience. The most profitable outcome for Toho would be to structure the deal so they can continue to make more of their own live action films like Shin while also continuing to license Godzilla and co to Legendary for that international money. Toho is a business, their executives are as greedy as any other executives, this is the most logical outcome now that we're in something of a Godzilla and kaiju film boom. Whether it's a sequel to Shin, or a completely new take, I would be surprised if we don't have a new live action Toho Godzilla film within 3 years time. Now whether it's any good is subjective - there's a lot of users here who hate the new weird/experimental takes like Shin/Monster Planet/Singular Point and are likely rooting for Toho to leave Godzilla alone and let Legendary handle the franchise from now own, but that's their personal taste - my own subjective opinion is that Shin was better than KotM and GvK (my favorite Godzilla films of the last decade are Shin and 2014). Either way, if we get films from both Legendary and Toho then we all win (unless you hate both the MV and recent Toho versions, in which case you're just crap out of luck).

TL;DR Toho wants that sweet sweet domestic box office and merchandising combo.

[miguelnuva]

I feel we'll get a toho movie next. I'm ready for a toho movie already. A more traditional Godzilla.

Your likely not getting traditional Godzilla from Toho anymore.

[dillonking55]

In regards to the next MonsterVerse Godzilla film, It would be wise to not wait too long to do it.

One of the things that hurt KotM was that Legendary waited too long to release a sequel after G14.

Now that GvK has been a success & has positive WOM, strike while the iron is hot & I fully expect to hear about another MonsterVerse Godzilla sooner rather than later.

[Zasraniec]

I would welcome a new Godzilla no matter what but I want the Monsterverse to continue more. It really is the first time we had anything like this and the possibilities are endless! Legendary can have budgets that Toho can only dream of.

[DynomikeGojira]

I'd still love to see James Wan or Matt Reeves direct the next Godzilla and agreed as much as I love Adam Wingard we shouldn't have to wait for another few years for another installment just because he's( personally could care less about Face/Off but really want ThunderCats)busy we don't need a repeat of Gareth Edwards.

[Cookson]

Shin Godzilla is still a big presence in Japan. I still for the life of me can’t see why they wouldn’t just continue from that universe. It just makes sense financially. All the merchandise that film sold is absolutely insane... I get it.. Shin Godzilla seems like a one off but the ending could lead to many directions for a movie universe based from it.

The first image you see on Tohos main site is of Shin Godzilla for gods sake.

[KasZilla]

I feel we'll get a toho movie next. I'm ready for a toho movie already. A more traditional Godzilla.

Your likely not getting traditional Godzilla from Toho anymore.

What makes you think that?

[Vakanai]

I feel we'll get a toho movie next. I'm ready for a toho movie already. A more traditional Godzilla.

Your likely not getting traditional Godzilla from Toho anymore.

Judging by Shin, I'm okay with that.

Added in 2 minutes 39 seconds:

I would welcome a new Godzilla no matter what but I want the Monsterverse to continue more. It really is the first time we had anything like this and the possibilities are endless! Legendary can have budgets that Toho can only dream of.

Eh, the budgets make them and the fights look good, but the MV has really kind of dropped the ball on the storytelling aspect if you ask me. Shame too, G14 and K:SI were great. KotM and GvK though seemed to just give up on a coherent and engaging plot and just went full in on the popcorn dumb action.

Added in 1 minute 33 seconds:

I'd still love to see James Wan or Matt Reeves direct the next Godzilla and agreed as much as I love Adam Wingard we shouldn't have to wait for another few years for another installment just because he's( personally could care less about Face/Off but really want ThunderCats)busy we don't need a repeat of Gareth Edwards.

I don't know what other movies Matt Reeves has done, but judging by the teaser trailer from his upcoming The Batman alone I'd love to see him on a Godzilla movie.

Added in 56 seconds:

Shin Godzilla is still a big presence in Japan. I still for the life of me can’t see why they wouldn’t just continue from that universe. It just makes sense financially. All the merchandise that film sold is absolutely insane... I get it.. Shin Godzilla seems like a one off but the ending could lead to many directions for a movie universe based from it.

The first image you see on Tohos main site is of Shin Godzilla for gods sake.

Agreed, I would be all in and love to see a Shin Godzilla 2.

[plasmabeam]

Hmmm, I'm not sure Toho are a bastion of storytelling, themselves. I think most Godzilla movies have a human-storytelling issue, regardless of who is making them.

It's really tough because in order to have proper storytelling that breathes, you need time. And when you spend the time needed for that on humans, we see less monsters. Then the complaints start.

[Vakanai]

Hmmm, I'm not sure Toho are a bastion of storytelling, themselves. I think most Godzilla movies have a human-storytelling issue, regardless of who is making them.

It's really tough because in order to have proper storytelling that breathes, you need time. And when you spend the time needed for that on humans, we see less monsters. Then the complaints start.

Historically this is true, but with Shin managing it, the anime trilogy making an attempt even if it failed, and from what we've seen of the SP anime to date, I'd say modern/current Toho of the last 5 years at least has a better track record of it for right now compared to MV, who seemed to give up even making the attempt after K:SI.

It is tough, but still Shin managed to do it fairly well. Of course, that was more of a procedural in a way than a character driven story. Still doesn't matter, it worked.

Keep in mind, I really do still like the MV, I just would like more effort put into the bits that aren't about fighting/rampaging, and seeing as how that probably won't happen anymore, am more looking forward to another live action Toho picture over another MV one (especially given we've kind of just had two of them almost back to back in 2019/2021). And either way, that's kind of off topic too, since the thread is which is more likely to happen first. I honestly see good reason to give Toho the nod here. I expect the MV is going to need a bit to step back and hash out their plans again with GvK's success, whereas I feel Toho has probably been doing a bunch of planning quietly for a while now and are likely primed to strike and strike quickly while they have an open window currently. Ultimately it doesn't matter which of the two we prefer to see making a film, as it's highly likely both will (and this is a good thing). It's just a matter of which one will get their next movie out first. And I can totally see Toho cranking something out more quickly than Legendary can. And that's regardless of the fact that I'm more excited for the Toho side of things right now than Legendary's - after all, I still like both fairly well over all. More Godzilla content is never a bad thing.

[miguelnuva]

I feel we'll get a toho movie next. I'm ready for a toho movie already. A more traditional Godzilla.

Your likely not getting traditional Godzilla from Toho anymore.

What makes you think that?

Shin, Godzilla Earth and now Ultima lead me to believe they like experimentation.

[plasmabeam]

Hmmm, I'm not sure Toho are a bastion of storytelling, themselves. I think most Godzilla movies have a human-storytelling issue, regardless of who is making them.

It's really tough because in order to have proper storytelling that breathes, you need time. And when you spend the time needed for that on humans, we see less monsters. Then the complaints start.

Historically this is true, but with Shin managing it, the anime trilogy making an attempt even if it failed, and from what we've seen of the SP anime to date, I'd say modern/current Toho of the last 5 years at least has a better track record of it for right now compared to MV, who seemed to give up even making the attempt after K:SI.

It is tough, but still Shin managed to do it fairly well. Of course, that was more of a procedural in a way than a character driven story. Still doesn't matter, it worked.

Keep in mind, I really do still like the MV, I just would like more effort put into the bits that aren't about fighting/rampaging, and seeing as how that probably won't happen anymore, am more looking forward to another live action Toho picture over another MV one (especially given we've kind of just had two of them almost back to back in 2019/2021). And either way, that's kind of off topic too, since the thread is which is more likely to happen first. I honestly see good reason to give Toho the nod here. I expect the MV is going to need a bit to step back and hash out their plans again with GvK's success, whereas I feel Toho has probably been doing a bunch of planning quietly for a while now and are likely primed to strike and strike quickly while they have an open window currently. Ultimately it doesn't matter which of the two we prefer to see making a film, as it's highly likely both will (and this is a good thing). It's just a matter of which one will get their next movie out first. And I can totally see Toho cranking something out more quickly than Legendary can. And that's regardless of the fact that I'm more excited for the Toho side of things right now than Legendary's - after all, I still like both fairly well over all. More Godzilla content is never a bad thing.

Unfortunately, I wasn’t mesmerised like some were with Shin’s bloated socio-economic classist lesson/narrative. It was a pretentious yawn-fest for me. Coupled with a Godzilla character I didn’t like, with a design I didn’t like (bar a few cool elements), executed with embarrassingly poor CGI in many parts of the film… I’ll stick with Legendary.

I get why someone would like Shin. It wasn’t for me, though.

I do have a feeling they’re going to keep experimenting with Godzilla and his design. I don’t like any of the animé but perhaps they’ll strike a vein of gold with all the different attempts.

Added in 1 minute 41 seconds:
Let me also add that I think there is plenty of room for improvement with Legendary as well, but they’re my preference by far even still.

[Vakanai]

Hmmm, I'm not sure Toho are a bastion of storytelling, themselves. I think most Godzilla movies have a human-storytelling issue, regardless of who is making them.

It's really tough because in order to have proper storytelling that breathes, you need time. And when you spend the time needed for that on humans, we see less monsters. Then the complaints start.

Historically this is true, but with Shin managing it, the anime trilogy making an attempt even if it failed, and from what we've seen of the SP anime to date, I'd say modern/current Toho of the last 5 years at least has a better track record of it for right now compared to MV, who seemed to give up even making the attempt after K:SI.

It is tough, but still Shin managed to do it fairly well. Of course, that was more of a procedural in a way than a character driven story. Still doesn't matter, it worked.

Keep in mind, I really do still like the MV, I just would like more effort put into the bits that aren't about fighting/rampaging, and seeing as how that probably won't happen anymore, am more looking forward to another live action Toho picture over another MV one (especially given we've kind of just had two of them almost back to back in 2019/2021). And either way, that's kind of off topic too, since the thread is which is more likely to happen first. I honestly see good reason to give Toho the nod here. I expect the MV is going to need a bit to step back and hash out their plans again with GvK's success, whereas I feel Toho has probably been doing a bunch of planning quietly for a while now and are likely primed to strike and strike quickly while they have an open window currently. Ultimately it doesn't matter which of the two we prefer to see making a film, as it's highly likely both will (and this is a good thing). It's just a matter of which one will get their next movie out first. And I can totally see Toho cranking something out more quickly than Legendary can. And that's regardless of the fact that I'm more excited for the Toho side of things right now than Legendary's - after all, I still like both fairly well over all. More Godzilla content is never a bad thing.

Unfortunately, I wasn’t mesmerised like some were with Shin’s bloated socio-economic classist lesson/narrative. It was a pretentious yawn-fest for me. Coupled with a Godzilla character I didn’t like, with a design I didn’t like (bar a few cool elements), executed with embarrassingly poor CGI in many parts of the film… I’ll stick with Legendary.

I get why someone would like Shin. It wasn’t for me, though.

I do have a feeling they’re going to keep experimenting with Godzilla and his design. I don’t like any of the animé but perhaps they’ll strike a vein of gold with all the different attempts.

Added in 1 minute 41 seconds:
Let me also add that I think there is plenty of room for improvement with Legendary as well, but they’re my preference by far even still.

While I disagree about Shin, that's fair. Film is subjective. But still, we can agree that Toho should still be making movies, that it's been successful and profitable for them, and whether you prefer Toho or Legendary right now has no bearing on which will make the next Godzilla movie first (we can disagree on which will make it to theater next and for what reason, but that personal preference for their films isn't a factor).

But I definitely felt that KotM and GvK was illogical, ill plotted out/poorly scripted, ill edited, turn-off-your-brain at the door films that only existed to present pretty pictures and cool fight scenes, and honestly would have been improved if they had just cut out everything that wasn't a pretty CGI picture or fight scene because their actual plot/character stuff was pointless and just got in the way because if all it's about is "cool CGI bro!" then it really doesn't need to be anything else but a clip show. Again, I see the appeal, the CGI spectacle and fights really were cool bro. But it's just not enough to invest me in anything beyond the CGI. Not like the first two, better films (my opinion). Like I said, I like it for what it is, I truly do. It's just that what it is, isn't something I can love. It's forgettable entertainment, I'm not going to be thinking about it much for days or weeks afterwards. Shin though, that was on my mind long after my first viewing. It impressed me even when the attempts at CGI spectacle and action wasn't on screen. It was just much more of an impactful experience over all. The last two MV films weren't impactful beyond the fights.

Again though, my opinions on Shin and KotM/GvK doesn't do much to predict which studio will be releasing the next Godzilla movie.

Added in 3 minutes 51 seconds:
It's really hard for me to resist the urge to go full in on the analysis between Shin and the last two MV films. It's just I was so excited for the MV films, but after the first two the story elements really took a nose dive for me and it became all about shoving as much seemingly nonsensical digital spectacle in as they can, good plotting be damned.

[Kaijucifer]

Toho next. There has been a Godzilla film every anniversary since 1964.

Legendary did 2014 lol. So they can do it 2024 again to celebrate the 10th anniversary of the Monsterverse as well as Godzilla's 70th. I don't want Toho Live action films until the Monsterverse either dies or loses me entirely. Currently I'm very satisfied, but my expectations moving forward after GvK for the MV are more grounded and I don't want the next film to be another action fest. I want a return to roots film with Godzilla being a god trying to maintain order again on a smaller scale with a better human story with fewer human characters and to flesh them out. I want them to continue Michael Dougherty's vision for the Titans and Godzilla, re-establish him as an ally to humanity, and take the "They are the Gods spoken of in all lore" aspect to the next level. Make them feel that way(less animalistic, more divine and wiser than they appear).
What I want next, is Godzilla BC. An origin story for our Godzilla. Show him hatching and growing up through the prologue, and at the end of it, cut to him as an adult and doing his thing. They could do anything here as long as it's well executed, but I think they could allude to Ghidorah at the end of the film with a object falling to the Earth during a time when humans and titans now both exist, and coexist.

[Vakanai]

Toho next. There has been a Godzilla film every anniversary since 1964.

I don't want Toho Live action films until the Monsterverse either dies or loses me entirely.

Why not? What do feel is wrong or unappealing about Toho doing their own movies while the Monsterverse is continuing? I mean they already did Shin and that didn't affect the MV any.

[Tyrant_Lizard_King]

Sounds like if they do another MV film it's gonna be Kong focused so there's more than enough time and room for Toho to pump out another film. I don't see the MonsterVerse pumping out more than one film every couple years. With that more than likely being the case it could be another 4 to 5 years before we see the MV Godzilla again. It's not like they're pulling MCU numbers here.

[dillonking55]

Waiting 5 years is one of the reasons KotM underperformed. I don't think Legendary should wait that long to pump out another MV Godzilla film.

GvK was a hit. Strike while the iron is hot. I'm sure they can work something out with Toho about a release schedule in regards to releasing Godzilla films between the two studios.