Discussion of the Titular Fights: Godzilla vs. Kong

[CosmicComet]

I cant link since I'm new but look for this LA Times article in google:

'Godzilla vs. Kong' director on giving Kong a fighting chance

Wingard puts to rest the "equals" thought train here. The Hong Kong fight was designed to give Kong a better chance by making the buildings even taller. So it would be like an ape maneuvering through a jungle. And the axe of course. Because Wingard felt Godzilla's durability was simply too high without it.

But the article still acknowledges that he lost in Hong Kong even with those provisions. (No mention of a mythical round 3 after round 2).

That makes me think that the axes were scavenged from the fin of an already dead Gojira specimen and the war between their species started in earnest after that.

Kong vs Godzilla was kinda like a gorilla vs a bear that outweighs it by a factor of two. And then the bear can breathe fire too somehow.

The gorilla would get annihilated every time. But give it a small axe and gorilla may stand a chance.

Did anyone check out this article?

[goji89]

Finally the dumb round 2 debate can end.

[CosmicComet]

The novel already ended that.

I've never seen a movie that manages to portray the underdog so accurately.

The underdog may lose once, but he always manages to overcome. (Rocky 3).

And in a way he did manage to overcome, but in a completely different scenario than the title fight.

[Showzilla]

I like how the director just keeps shooting down all the kong Stan theories

"There were two rounds"

"Nope"

"Well, kong has stronger arms"

"Pffft, good God no"

"Well, kong knocked him out"

"No"

"Godzilla wasn't gassed in his fight with MG"

"Yes he was"

[daveblackeye15]

Oh it's pretty silly but I kind of wish Kong tried using his feet to grab hold of his axe one point and swing it at Godzilla like that. Like he braces his two arms between two buildings, foot grabs the handle and he surprise slashes it across Godzilla's torso. I mean to be fair it is a silly movie but hey use those feet for more than kicking.

[Zasraniec]

I cant link since I'm new but look for this LA Times article in google:

'Godzilla vs. Kong' director on giving Kong a fighting chance

Wingard puts to rest the "equals" thought train here. The Hong Kong fight was designed to give Kong a better chance by making the buildings even taller. So it would be like an ape maneuvering through a jungle. And the axe of course. Because Wingard felt Godzilla's durability was simply too high without it.

But the article still acknowledges that he lost in Hong Kong even with those provisions. (No mention of a mythical round 3 after round 2).

That makes me think that the axes were scavenged from the fin of an already dead Gojira specimen and the war between their species started in earnest after that.

Kong vs Godzilla was kinda like a gorilla vs a bear that outweighs it by a factor of two. And then the bear can breathe fire too somehow.

The gorilla would get annihilated every time. But give it a small axe and gorilla may stand a chance.

Did anyone check out this article?

Bingo! See? For some reason Kong fans get butthurt and label you a troll when you simply call out feats shown from the film that clearly demonstrate that Godzilla is superior. Saying Godzilla is superior is not trolling or being toxic. If it is than Wingard must be the biggest troll of them all. It is just the reality of the movies. One monster is capable of withstanding unrealistic amounts of punishment and the other just isn't. Saying Mechagodzilla destroyed Godzilla doesn't get you labelled a troll so why should saying Godzilla demolished Kong get you called that? I don't wanna bring the Fatasy Matches over here but that doesn't even include Godzilla when he is charged up to shoot through to hollow earth or in his fire form. So now we can just enjoy that awesome movie for what it was. Of course there will still be "debates" for years to come despite the constant clarification so I guess I'll just grab some popcorn and enjoy the ride!

[goji89]

Godzilla won

"Mr. Gorbachev, Lock down this thread".

[baran]

I think this movie really pushed forward the idea of a merciful and benevolent Godzilla, even if he is the most vicious and powerful force of nature. He saw that Kong was more a part of nature and not a force trying to disturb its balance...

That's a good point. It might be easy to miss initially, what with Godzilla being on a warpath and seeming to be the villain to Kong's heroic protagonist here, but that's a plausible subtext. Maybe this movie isn't as simple as some of us think, huh?

but their predecessors battled...

Which, after watching how the two learn to respect each other at the end of GvK, it makes me wonder if that's a good direction to take the mythology if the MV continues. Maybe the two species actually developed some sort of symbiotic relationship eons ago? If the MV continues, I'd like to see a DAM-type scenario as the last hurrah where the two continue to work together in some fashion.

Added in 2 minutes 4 seconds:
Re: Discussion of the Titular Fights: Godzilla vs. Kong
Which brings me to the thought of: what if this Godzilla is a “kind” one but others, if they exist, may be evil. What if Godzillas are complex like humans. Some good ones and some bad? That would make quite the VS film. Godzilla VS Godzilla.

But there's a heckin' cool idea, too!

[Jaqua92]

Plasma, the only challenge to that is that Godzilla did go out of his way to hunt down Kong in the ocean.

Most neutral people saw it that way. This really wasn't as much of Kong initiating the fight as we thought. He initiated the second, Godzilla went way out of his way to initiate the first.

I saw the movie with my girlfriend who is very neutral. We saw her in the movies and she gave a thumbs up when Kong hit Godzilla with the ax. She also said she wanted Kong to win because Godzilla was "being mean"

When she pointed out that he hunted calmed down in the ocean for no reason, I didn't really have a refute

[Dv-218]

Yeah, he was pretty hell-bent on getting rid of Kong during the first fight- he would have basically drowned him to death had the depth missiles not been initiated. He wasn't completely sure about MG/"Ghidorah's" location at that point, he simply targeted Kong because he recognized him as a rival and because he was out of his usual element which is probably the root of the difference between his approach here and in HK.

[CosmicComet]

I like how the director just keeps shooting down all the kong Stan theories

"There were two rounds"

"Nope"

"Well, kong has stronger arms"

"Pffft, good God no"

"Well, kong knocked him out"

"No"

"Godzilla wasn't gassed in his fight with MG"

"Yes he was"

I think the most annoying misconception was the assumption that Kong could outlift Godzilla by multiple times because of ancient theory "gorillas can bench 4000 lbs!!!"

So they automatically applied that unproven figure to Kong as a multipler saying he too could lift 10x his weight.

Nevermind the unlikelihood of the figure for gorillas but even if they could, a gorilla scaled up to 300 feet would be so weak relative to its weight that its body would collapse on itself.

They really dont get the square cube law. Weight increases vastly faster than strength. If you get scaled twice as big you will get 4x stronger but 8x times heavier, making you only half as strong proportionately.

So EVERY titan is way stronger proportionally than a gorilla. Being able to simply walk with a 100,000 ton body is more impressive than a much smaller normal animal being able to move a few times it's own weight.

If the Kong stans logic of static strength multiplers per weight actually worked out then arthropod Kaiju like Ebirah, Kumonga and Kamaracus, or especially something like a beetle based titan would be by far the strongest Kaiju, yet obviously they are not.

If you scaled an ant up to human size it too would be too weak to sustain it's own weight too.

If you magically made Kong or Godzilla smaller, down to 400-500 lbs, they would be ridiculously strong for that size. They would be punching through steel doors casually. A normal gorilla wouldn't stand a chance. Or even a troop of them.

[Showzilla]

I like how the director just keeps shooting down all the kong Stan theories

"There were two rounds"

"Nope"

"Well, kong has stronger arms"

"Pffft, good God no"

"Well, kong knocked him out"

"No"

"Godzilla wasn't gassed in his fight with MG"

"Yes he was"

I think the most annoying misconception was the assumption that Kong could outlift Godzilla by multiple times because of ancient theory "gorillas can bench 4000 lbs!!!"

So they automatically applied that unproven figure to Kong as a multipler saying he too could lift 10x his weight.

Nevermind the unlikelihood of the figure for gorillas but even if they could, a gorilla scaled up to 300 feet would be so weak relative to its weight that its body would collapse on itself.

They really dont get the square cube law. Weight increases vastly faster than strength. If you get scaled twice as big you will get 4x stronger but 8x times heavier, making you only half as strong proportionately.

So EVERY titan is way stronger proportionally than a gorilla. Being able to simply walk with a 100,000 ton body is more impressive than a much smaller normal animal being able to move a few times it's own weight.

If the Kong stans logic of static strength multiplers per weight actually worked out then arthropod Kaiju like Ebirah, Kumonga and Kamaracus, or especially something like a beetle based titan would be by far the strongest Kaiju, yet obviously they are not.

If you scaled an ant up to human size it too would be too weak to sustain it's own weight too.

If you magically made Kong or Godzilla smaller, down to 400-500 lbs, they would be ridiculously strong for that size. They would be punching through steel doors casually. A normal gorilla wouldn't stand a chance. Or even a troop of them.

I actually did the math once

if kong could lift 21 times his weight

he'd still only be 1/3 as strong as Godzilla was back in KotM using very very very conservative feats

Kong is a gorilla

Godzilla is built like the only animal that can manhandle a gorilla of similar size....a bear.

[Spuro]

Considering Kong was unable to break his chains on the ship... yeah, Godzilla is in a whole 'nother weight class.

[CosmicComet]

I like how the director just keeps shooting down all the kong Stan theories

"There were two rounds"

"Nope"

"Well, kong has stronger arms"

"Pffft, good God no"

"Well, kong knocked him out"

"No"

"Godzilla wasn't gassed in his fight with MG"

"Yes he was"

I think the most annoying misconception was the assumption that Kong could outlift Godzilla by multiple times because of ancient theory "gorillas can bench 4000 lbs!!!"

So they automatically applied that unproven figure to Kong as a multipler saying he too could lift 10x his weight.

Nevermind the unlikelihood of the figure for gorillas but even if they could, a gorilla scaled up to 300 feet would be so weak relative to its weight that its body would collapse on itself.

They really dont get the square cube law. Weight increases vastly faster than strength. If you get scaled twice as big you will get 4x stronger but 8x times heavier, making you only half as strong proportionately.

So EVERY titan is way stronger proportionally than a gorilla. Being able to simply walk with a 100,000 ton body is more impressive than a much smaller normal animal being able to move a few times it's own weight.

If the Kong stans logic of static strength multiplers per weight actually worked out then arthropod Kaiju like Ebirah, Kumonga and Kamaracus, or especially something like a beetle based titan would be by far the strongest Kaiju, yet obviously they are not.

If you scaled an ant up to human size it too would be too weak to sustain it's own weight too.

If you magically made Kong or Godzilla smaller, down to 400-500 lbs, they would be ridiculously strong for that size. They would be punching through steel doors casually. A normal gorilla wouldn't stand a chance. Or even a troop of them.

I actually did the math once

if kong could lift 21 times his weight

he'd still only be 1/3 as strong as Godzilla was back in KotM using very very very conservative feats

Kong is a gorilla

Godzilla is built like the only animal that can manhandle a gorilla of similar size....a bear.

I don't mean calcs I mean actual lifting feats. Godzilla lifting and throwing even someone 50% heavier than him in some movies in the showa and heisei era is treated as a good feat; and it is indeed a good feat.

Even if a titan was strong enough to bench only half their weight, it would still be massively more impressive than a 400 lb animal moving something 3x their weight. It's easy to be strong relative to your weight at small sizes. That's just basic allometry.


And bears aren't the only thing that would overpower a gorilla. An equal sized lion would also annihilate a gorilla.

[Showzilla]

I think the most annoying misconception was the assumption that Kong could outlift Godzilla by multiple times because of ancient theory "gorillas can bench 4000 lbs!!!"

So they automatically applied that unproven figure to Kong as a multipler saying he too could lift 10x his weight.

Nevermind the unlikelihood of the figure for gorillas but even if they could, a gorilla scaled up to 300 feet would be so weak relative to its weight that its body would collapse on itself.

They really dont get the square cube law. Weight increases vastly faster than strength. If you get scaled twice as big you will get 4x stronger but 8x times heavier, making you only half as strong proportionately.

So EVERY titan is way stronger proportionally than a gorilla. Being able to simply walk with a 100,000 ton body is more impressive than a much smaller normal animal being able to move a few times it's own weight.

If the Kong stans logic of static strength multiplers per weight actually worked out then arthropod Kaiju like Ebirah, Kumonga and Kamaracus, or especially something like a beetle based titan would be by far the strongest Kaiju, yet obviously they are not.

If you scaled an ant up to human size it too would be too weak to sustain it's own weight too.

If you magically made Kong or Godzilla smaller, down to 400-500 lbs, they would be ridiculously strong for that size. They would be punching through steel doors casually. A normal gorilla wouldn't stand a chance. Or even a troop of them.

I actually did the math once

if kong could lift 21 times his weight

he'd still only be 1/3 as strong as Godzilla was back in KotM using very very very conservative feats

Kong is a gorilla

Godzilla is built like the only animal that can manhandle a gorilla of similar size....a bear.

I don't mean calcs I mean actual lifting feats. Godzilla lifting and throwing even someone 50% heavier than him in some movies in the showa and heisei era is treated as a good feat; and it is indeed a good feat.

Even if a titan was strong enough to bench only half their weight, it would still be massively more impressive than a 400 lb animal moving something 3x their weight. It's easy to be strong relative to your weight at small sizes. That's just basic allometry.


And bears aren't the only thing that would overpower a gorilla. An equal sized lion would also annihilate a gorilla.

I mean, I got the 21x weight feat for Kong from him breaking those chains and Godzilla's feat from pushing ghidorah back after ghidorah charged him.

[MrRockett]

Godzilla won the battles, Kong won hearts for his courage and determination.
Even getting crowned with the Axe knocked Godzilla down but the concussion took its toll on Kong as well.
Kong submitted.
As for why Godzilla hunted Kong in the ocean, Godzilla was pissed off things were out of whack, he was hunting and Kong was suddenly out of place so therefore a perceived threat that had to be handled. Not like G had a handbook on “good titan or Kevin’s parts being manipulated all over the place.
Both earned and gave respect at the end.

It’s that simple.

[ernesth100]

Yeah, I can't help but root for Kong every time he lands a hit. Naturally I'm a G fan first and foremost. But it's just the sense of fighting back against The Man almost? I dunno how to describe it.

Godzilla clearly slaughters the guy. But you can't help but notice Kong is actually the better fighter. He's just literally weaker. Every five hits landed lands was pretty much 2 damage while every attack Godzilla landed was 20+.

You see that Kong is keeping it close quarters and using his superior combat skill to his advantage. But Godzilla eventually knocks him away and tries to keep him at a distance and hit him with the breath. Or push him into the water where his punches pretty much equal a hard shove.

I can't help but think Kong could've won this one. But Godzillas durability is what saved him. It's just on a different level. We see Kong can push and shove G around. Hold him throw him down. And definitely hit faster. But none of that matters when one of the enemies powers is neigh invulnerability.

I wouldnt be surprised if punching Godzilla feels like the kaiju equivalent hitting a brick wall to Kong.

[miguelnuva]

Yeah, I can't help but root for Kong every time he lands a hit. Naturally I'm a G fan first and foremost. But it's just the sense of fighting back against The Man almost? I dunno how to describe it.

Godzilla clearly slaughters the guy. But you can't help but notice Kong is actually the better fighter. He's just literally weaker. Every five hits landed lands was pretty much 2 damage while every attack Godzilla landed was 20+.

You see that Kong is keeping it close quarters and using his superior combat skill to his advantage. But Godzilla eventually knocks him away and tries to keep him at a distance and hit him with the breath. Or push him into the water where his punches pretty much equal a hard shove.

I can't help but think Kong could've won this one. But Godzillas durability is what saved him. It's just on a different level. We see Kong can push and shove G around. Hold him throw him down. And definitely hit faster. But none of that matters when one of the enemies powers is neigh invulnerability.

I wouldnt be surprised if punching Godzilla feels like the kaiju equivalent hitting a brick wall to Kong.

Godzilla overlooks Kong until after the Axe to the head.

[ernesth100]

That too. But that doesn't really invalidate anything I just said. Especially on Kong's end. You could argue Godzilla didn't care again because like I said, every hit Kong landed did little to nothing in terms of damage minus the axe blow ofc.

My point was Kong put up an impressive showing that proves had the circumstances aligned differently perhaps he could've came out on top. Personally I feel like where he screwed up I jumping on Godzilla jagged spike covered back.

Like what was even the plan there? Should've slammed him into the building. Jumped off his back and tackled him to the ground with all his might.

THEN start bashing his head where you landed the axe blow. Preferably with a nearby object. Once Godzilla got Kong on the ground it was pretty much over from there.

[miguelnuva]

That too. But that doesn't really invalidate anything I just said. Especially on Kong's end. You could argue Godzilla didn't care again because like I said, every hit Kong landed did little to nothing in terms of damage minus the axe blow ofc.

My point was Kong put up an impressive showing that proves had the circumstances aligned differently perhaps he could've came out on top. Personally I feel like where he screwed up I jumping on Godzilla jagged spike covered back.

Like what was even the plan there? Should've slammed him into the building. Jumped off his back and tackled him to the ground with all his might.

THEN start bashing his head where you landed the axe blow. Preferably with a nearby object. Once Godzilla got Kong on the ground it was pretty much over from there.

I understand what your saying, just the way the fight wen I wouldn't say Kong's blow did little damage as much as Godzilla is that durable. Kong had enough strong to stop Godzilla underwater, remember when he grabs him. The the aircraft punch did phase Godzilla.

I feel it was more Godzilla's pain threshold is that high. Ghidorah had to stratosphere drop him for example to slow him down.