Godzilla vs. Kong Discussion Thread - FULL SPOILERS AHEAD

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Gawdziller1954
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Re: Godzilla vs. Kong Discussion Thread - FULL SPOILERS AHEAD

Post by Gawdziller1954 »

MegaEvilSaurus666 wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 1:00 am
Gawdziller1954 wrote: Sun May 02, 2021 8:15 pm Not my problem.

I'm not talking about the jawline. He literally smiled in the film using his soft tissue. Thank you for conceding that. I never denied he had a crocodile like "smile" but he literally pulls back his "lips" and squints up his eyes and smiles. Ignore the GIF I posted all you want, no amount of saying "i've studied the design so i'm right" will make your statement correct.
It is your problem; you started this debate in the first place by replying directly to me. I just quoted the novelization and gave my opinion. You do not concede even one point, despite the fact that you aren't correct. Your arguments have holes. They don't hold up to scrutiny. You become more arrogant as you go along. That's exactly why it's tiresome.

For the highlighted, are you sure?
Gawdziller1954 wrote: Sun May 02, 2021 5:03 pm "part of his facial features" yeah sure buddy
Gawdziller1954 wrote: Sun May 02, 2021 3:05 pm Godzilla's design is based off of reptiles and mammals such as bears, with eagle in the face. He literally smiles (as in, grins with his mouth) when he clips Kong with his A-breath. I'm not talking about a crocodile smile (which he barely has anyway).
The corners of his mouth are likely soft tissue; pure muscle. The ridges below his eyes are meant to be his jugal bones, hence my comparison to the anatomy of iguanas (his inner mouth is even based upon iguana anatomy) most of what's below those ridges is soft tissue, until you reach the lower jaw. Those corners of his mouth have always moved and jiggled in every movie, and even in tests from 2013. This isn't news to me. They exaggerated the movement to somewhat resemble a smile (it looks goofy). Neither interpretation of it is wrong; it got past Toho's rules. I simply don't see it as a true, anthropomorphic smile considering the shape for a smile is already there, permanently fixed on his face like a dolphin. His eyes and nostrils do more of the emoting. Agree to disagree.
Gawdziller1954 wrote: Sun May 02, 2021 8:15 pm You have pointed it out ad nauseam but that does not change the fact that that is the canon skeleton. Stop trying to dispute it because it's not getting you anywhere.
And it's not getting you anywhere to keep asserting that the skulls are the same. They're not. The dentition is wack. The structure is wack. The similarities you see are not the whole picture, because the differences are glaring enough. The canon is wack. I don't care about what you're saying, because Godzilla doesn't have molars, and his skull wouldn't resemble a dog's, simply by looking at him. 5146_ADAM doesn't have well defined canine teeth, and neither does Godzilla. None of what I just said is debatable for very obvious reasons. Simply disagree if you'd like, and that'll be the end of this.
Gawdziller1954 wrote: Sun May 02, 2021 8:15 pm I am correct here lmao. Not my problem you refuse to listen to facts. If Godzilla and Dagon and the chamber skeleton are all Godzillas the Chamber skeleton is much larger-its teeth would be proportionately larger too.
You seem to be referring to this: https://gwtoday.gwu.edu/newly-discovere ... eth-adults
Which doesn't match with what we're talking about. You also seem to be referencing the fact that juvenile Tyrannosaurus rex individuals have thinner, smaller teeth that become much larger and thicker as adults. Godzilla isn't an adolescent as far we know (watch that get retconned). He's an adult. So was Dagon. Like a crocodile, Godzilla still grows as an adult. (Although crocodiles don't get tremendously bigger as they age as growth slows down over time, and most of the crucial growth is done when young.)

No reptile grows teeth of a different size, function, and shape from adulthood/maturity to elder years. Giant, older crocodiles like Cassius don't look entirely different from younger, smaller, adult crocodiles. They're merely more robust, with thicker skulls. They don't just grow proportionately larger teeth because they're older and bigger. Growing larger doesn't mean that one's teeth become gargantuan fangs. That doesn't work that way. Teeth grow proportionately larger from juveniles to adults, but not from adults (let's say around 16 years old) to older adults (60 to 100 years old). Proportions for teeth stay pretty much the same at that point, regardless of size increases, with variability between species. Elders stop replacing teeth so quickly, and have fewer.

Unless I'm assuming wrong about what you're referring to and you know of discoveries I'm unaware of, you just don't have this one. And as a whole, you've provided little very explanation to your claims.
Gawdziller1954 wrote: Sun May 02, 2021 8:15 pm Gorgosaurus is only distantly related and unlike the chamber skeleton and dagon does not share enough similarities for it to be confused with the big tyrannosaurine tyrannosaurs. The skeletons do resemble eachother. They just do. You're flooding the thread with nonsense at this point.
You're just not paying attention. There are more morphological differences between 5146_ADAM, the Hollow Earth skull, and Godzilla than the differences between Tyrannosaurus and Tarbosaurus, or even Gorgosaurus. The Tarbosaurus comparison was to highlight that even among closer related species, things don't look the same. With individual variation, there is still a load of commonality, even down to the most minute details. Individual variation doesn't result in adults appearing to be of an entirely different genus, subfamily, or family altogether, and having wildly different dentition that imply an entirely different lifestyle and niche. That's my point. You kept going on about how their differences could be explained through variation between individuals of a species, and I'm telling you right now, the answer is a big bold No. Even Tyrannosaurus and Gorgosaurus have more in common than the 5146_ADAM drawing and the Hollow Earth skull. You really want to say otherwise, but it's unfortunately not true. You don't just find molars in one individual, and large fangs with no molars in another. That doesn't look all that related to me.
Gawdziller1954 wrote: Sun May 02, 2021 8:15 pm It really doesn't. It resembles the canon Godzilla skeleton more than it does any of the examples you brought up, in particular amphicyon-which is why it was a bad choice. You hardly posted a rebuttal. It isn't my fault the canon Godzilla skeleton does not look like Godzilla but does look like the chamber skeleton.
Alright, what part of "it looks way more like one of them than it does to Godzilla" don't you understand? You keep saying the Hollow Earth skull looks like 5146_ADAM (which it really doesn't), but neither of them look like Godzilla. I've been saying that the Hollow Earth skull looks more like a caniform skull than it looks like Godzilla himself. If you don't like that one example out of the three I provided, that's your problem.

"It's not about [the Hollow Earth skull] looking absolutely exactly like a particular wolf, bear, or related caniform. It's that by comparison [to Godzilla], it [the Hollow Earth skull] looks closer to even the weakest example [amphicyon]. I figured you'd get the point, but you just don't."
Nope. Not my problem.

Don't accuse my argument of having holes when you haven't made a coherent or correct comparison yourself for the past 2 days. I am correct.
And yes, I am sure I never stated he didn't have a crocodile-like jawline. You can check my other comments on it.
So you concede that I was right on Tyrannosaur teeth. Good. The fact of the matter is if the cave skeleton was indeed a Godzilla his teeth would be much larger than any teeth we see on dagon or Godzilla, which is exactly what we see.

Godzilla is reptile-like but not neccessarily a reptile, and the fact that the cave skeleton has giant teeth and is probably a godzilla indicates they do grow throught his life.

The "jugal bone" jiggles and stretches when he wakes up in 2014. It's muscle. The fact of the matter is regardless of what you see or don't see he does smile in the film by moving his facial muscles.

Dagon has canines. I have established this. As I have said, there are more similarities to the canon skeleton of Godzilla and the cave dweller than there are differences, and both have more similarities between them than between T.rex and Gorgosaurus. Thank you for conceding. It doesn't matter if you think the two aren't related, I am sticking with what is canon here, not what some guy on a forum thinks is right and wrong.
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Re: Godzilla vs. Kong Discussion Thread - FULL SPOILERS AHEAD

Post by Jermobooka »

We’re seriously still arguing about the damn skeleton, eh?

It’s just the skeleton of a random Titan, there, done

This shouldn’t be taking whole pages :lol:
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Re: Godzilla vs. Kong Discussion Thread - FULL SPOILERS AHEAD

Post by ernesth100 »

Jermobooka wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 9:37 am We’re seriously still arguing about the damn skeleton, eh?

It’s just the skeleton of a random Titan, there, done

This shouldn’t be taking whole pages :lol:
Lmaoo, ahem. If I may start another heated debate that will surely take several pages. Is there anyway Ren could've survived and a key in Ghidorah's return?

I'm still holding out hope Legendary sees the reviews. Many of which state the clear misusage of his character. It'd be a welcome and easy fix.
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Re: Godzilla vs. Kong Discussion Thread - FULL SPOILERS AHEAD

Post by ElijahSky »

ernesth100 wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 10:56 am
Jermobooka wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 9:37 am We’re seriously still arguing about the damn skeleton, eh?

It’s just the skeleton of a random Titan, there, done

This shouldn’t be taking whole pages :lol:
Lmaoo, ahem. If I may start another heated debate that will surely take several pages. Is there anyway Ren could've survived and a key in Ghidorah's return?

I'm still holding out hope Legendary sees the reviews. Many of which state the clear misusage of his character. It'd be a welcome and easy fix.
I haven't had the chance to read it yet myself, but I heard that the novelization states that they never found his body, implying he survived.

Seems like a good character to bring back for a Godzilla sequel if you ask me.

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Re: Godzilla vs. Kong Discussion Thread - FULL SPOILERS AHEAD

Post by miguelnuva »

ernesth100 wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 10:56 am
Jermobooka wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 9:37 am We’re seriously still arguing about the damn skeleton, eh?

It’s just the skeleton of a random Titan, there, done

This shouldn’t be taking whole pages :lol:
Lmaoo, ahem. If I may start another heated debate that will surely take several pages. Is there anyway Ren could've survived and a key in Ghidorah's return?

I'm still holding out hope Legendary sees the reviews. Many of which state the clear misusage of his character. It'd be a welcome and easy fix.
No body means no confirmed Death.
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Re: Godzilla vs. Kong Discussion Thread - FULL SPOILERS AHEAD

Post by MegaEvilSaurus666 »

Excuse me, everyone. I didn't want to continue this, but I cannot let someone say I'm doing something I'm not. Jermobooka knows this. :lol:
Gawdziller1954 wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 8:45 am Don't accuse my argument of having holes when you haven't made a coherent or correct comparison yourself for the past 2 days.
That's a complete lie. I'm not the only one with these opinions. Showzilla made the same points. Then obZen echoed one of my earlier points exactly. You're just convinced that it is your way. You can claim that the points are incoherent and incorrect. That's on you. Your arguments do indeed have holes, though. The tooth argument especially.
Gawdziller1954 wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 8:45 am So you concede that I was right on Tyrannosaur teeth. Good. The fact of the matter is if the cave skeleton was indeed a Godzilla his teeth would be much larger than any teeth we see on dagon or Godzilla, which is exactly what we see.
No, I didn't concede anything. I never remotely said that. You're talking about juveniles into adults, while I'm talking about adults into elders. It just doesn't work the way you want it to. I'm agreeing that Tyrannosaurus juveniles have thinner teeth than adults, but I'm telling you that smaller adults don't have proportionately smaller teeth than larger adults. You're talking about Limusaurus losing teeth and developing a beak, growing from a juvenile to an adult, while I'm talking about adults growing over time as they age. What that means is, your argument has nothing to do with what I've been talking about, and doesn't refute my points by any means.

Let's see if this is coherent enough for you.
If an adult doesn't have relatively large teeth, it's not suddenly getting massive, lengthy daggers for teeth as an elder.
Showzilla wrote: Sun May 02, 2021 9:51 pm The presence of canines does not mean that they randomly warp their skulls and have a different tooth become a fang
Thank you, Showzilla. Want an example? This applies for male saltwater crocodiles as well. 16 foot long males don't always have proportionately smaller teeth than 22 foot males, for example. Meaning that the teeth stay somewhat relative to the respective size of the animal.

Godzilla is an adult, and so was Dagon (Godzilla was presumably over 250 million years old, but they fuck the canon each time they write movies and comics, so he's much younger now). We're also assuming that Godzilla is truly exceptional for his species. It would be plain absurd if the Hollow Earth skull was a member of their species (it would be bigger than Godzilla Earth, making it seem dumb that the Kongs could kill it but not Godzilla, and this would also make Godzilla look like a little bitch, literally), and equally absurd if the 5146_ADAM drawing was accurate, because neither Godzilla nor Dagon have molars.

I'd also expect a little more... oomph or punch in presentation, if the Hollow Earth skeleton in the movie was related to Godzilla. It would be a truly huge thing to reveal, but it's just a throwaway. It gets no real focus or acknowledgement.

I've said that from the beginning, but don't take it from me, because obZen said it best.
obZen wrote: Sun May 02, 2021 10:28 pm Nah, I don’t think so. Something as significant, noteworthy as that would require at the very least a random sensitive shot; a moment of acknowledgment (as in, oh poop, yes the glowing-blue magic axe Kong is dislodging is from out the cranium/neck of a Godzilla), if not a line of acknowledgment —because of it’s implications. We didn’t get either.

If that were a Godzilla I would frankly find that scene to be disrespectful l’mao
Gawdziller1954 wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 8:45 am Dagon has canines. I have established this. As I have said, there are more similarities to the canon skeleton of Godzilla and the cave dweller than there are differences, and both have more similarities between them than between T.rex and Gorgosaurus. Thank you for conceding. It doesn't matter if you think the two aren't related, I am sticking with what is canon here, not what some guy on a forum thinks is right and wrong.
A T. rex (especially male or juvenile) and a Gorgosaurus have the same sort of overall look and dentition by comparison. I'm making a distinction between 5146_ADAM and Dagon because the skeletal illustration doesn't match the creature depicted in Aftershock. 5146_ADAM and the Hollow Earth skeleton don't line up with Godzilla or Dagon in Aftershock. You don't need to be a genius to see that. I didn't concede anything at all. In fact, I've doubled down. But you really, desperately want to win for some reason, so much so that you're merely claiming I've conceded. Things don't work that way, man. You've failed to convince me, and that's quite alright. I've been tired of going back and forth over this. I've made my points very clear. You can have your opinions, and I'll have mine, but this argument is over. It's a random skeleton in a wacky, completely unrealistic and potentially rushed movie, and the novelization's details don't match with it. The novelization also doesn't explicitly say that the skeleton was bigger than Godzilla or Dagon. You can follow the canon all you want, and you'll end up with Godzilla's stats being pulled straight from Popular Mechanics, and Ghidorah's weight being "121,00" tons. It's canon that Godzilla's once bony dorsal plates stretch, bend, and fold, too. It's wack. Enjoy. No hard feelings.
Jermobooka wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 9:37 am We’re seriously still arguing about the damn skeleton, eh?

It’s just the skeleton of a random Titan, there, done

This shouldn’t be taking whole pages :lol:
Thank you. I've got to just stop replying to stuff like that. I could've just ignored it. And highlighted, I said exactly that from the very start. :lol:

I'm done here. That was really stupid on my part.
ElijahSky wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 11:20 am
ernesth100 wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 10:56 am Lmaoo, ahem. If I may start another heated debate that will surely take several pages. Is there anyway Ren could've survived and a key in Ghidorah's return?

I'm still holding out hope Legendary sees the reviews. Many of which state the clear misusage of his character. It'd be a welcome and easy fix.
I haven't had the chance to read it yet myself, but I heard that the novelization states that they never found his body, implying he survived.

Seems like a good character to bring back for a Godzilla sequel if you ask me.
This series has a history of killing off the most interesting characters, so based on that precedent, it would seem that he'd never return. This could be an exception. I'm hoping that they'll do something with him, and that he's not dead after all. It's just that the novelization sets it up, but the movie doesn't.

Anyone else like the inclusion of the Argo in the novel? Would've been cool to see in the movie. It would've been cool if the Argo interrupted Mechagodzilla instead of that alcohol. I forget who mentioned that idea on here, but it was a good one.
I'd change my username if I had the chance. It's a typo. It's supposed to be "66," and it's a very unfortunate thing to have on my account. Please help. :lol:

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Re: Godzilla vs. Kong Discussion Thread - FULL SPOILERS AHEAD

Post by obZen »

Team Godzilla kinda grew on me.

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Re: Godzilla vs. Kong Discussion Thread - FULL SPOILERS AHEAD

Post by Gawdziller1954 »

MegaEvilSaurus666 wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 3:01 pm Excuse me, everyone. I didn't want to continue this, but I cannot let someone say I'm doing something I'm not. Jermobooka knows this. :lol:
Gawdziller1954 wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 8:45 am Don't accuse my argument of having holes when you haven't made a coherent or correct comparison yourself for the past 2 days.
That's a complete lie. I'm not the only one with these opinions. Showzilla made the same points. Then obZen echoed one of my earlier points exactly. You're just convinced that it is your way. You can claim that the points are incoherent and incorrect. That's on you. Your arguments do indeed have holes, though. The tooth argument especially.
Gawdziller1954 wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 8:45 am So you concede that I was right on Tyrannosaur teeth. Good. The fact of the matter is if the cave skeleton was indeed a Godzilla his teeth would be much larger than any teeth we see on dagon or Godzilla, which is exactly what we see.
No, I didn't concede anything. I never remotely said that. You're talking about juveniles into adults, while I'm talking about adults into elders. It just doesn't work the way you want it to. I'm agreeing that Tyrannosaurus juveniles have thinner teeth than adults, but I'm telling you that smaller adults don't have proportionately smaller teeth than larger adults. You're talking about Limusaurus losing teeth and developing a beak, growing from a juvenile to an adult, while I'm talking about adults growing over time as they age. What that means is, your argument has nothing to do with what I've been talking about, and doesn't refute my points by any means.

Let's see if this is coherent enough for you.
If an adult doesn't have relatively large teeth, it's not suddenly getting massive, lengthy daggers for teeth as an elder.
Showzilla wrote: Sun May 02, 2021 9:51 pm The presence of canines does not mean that they randomly warp their skulls and have a different tooth become a fang
Thank you, Showzilla. Want an example? This applies for male saltwater crocodiles as well. 16 foot long males don't always have proportionately smaller teeth than 22 foot males, for example. Meaning that the teeth stay somewhat relative to the respective size of the animal.

Godzilla is an adult, and so was Dagon (Godzilla was presumably over 250 million years old, but they skreeonk the canon each time they write movies and comics, so he's much younger now). We're also assuming that Godzilla is truly exceptional for his species. It would be plain absurd if the Hollow Earth skull was a member of their species (it would be bigger than Godzilla Earth, making it seem dumb that the Kongs could kill it but not Godzilla, and this would also make Godzilla look like a little female dog, literally), and equally absurd if the 5146_ADAM drawing was accurate, because neither Godzilla nor Dagon have molars.

I'd also expect a little more... oomph or punch in presentation, if the Hollow Earth skeleton in the movie was related to Godzilla. It would be a truly huge thing to reveal, but it's just a throwaway. It gets no real focus or acknowledgement.

I've said that from the beginning, but don't take it from me, because obZen said it best.
obZen wrote: Sun May 02, 2021 10:28 pm Nah, I don’t think so. Something as significant, noteworthy as that would require at the very least a random sensitive shot; a moment of acknowledgment (as in, oh poop, yes the glowing-blue magic axe Kong is dislodging is from out the cranium/neck of a Godzilla), if not a line of acknowledgment —because of it’s implications. We didn’t get either.

If that were a Godzilla I would frankly find that scene to be disrespectful l’mao
Gawdziller1954 wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 8:45 am Dagon has canines. I have established this. As I have said, there are more similarities to the canon skeleton of Godzilla and the cave dweller than there are differences, and both have more similarities between them than between T.rex and Gorgosaurus. Thank you for conceding. It doesn't matter if you think the two aren't related, I am sticking with what is canon here, not what some guy on a forum thinks is right and wrong.
A T. rex (especially male or juvenile) and a Gorgosaurus have the same sort of overall look and dentition by comparison. I'm making a distinction between 5146_ADAM and Dagon because the skeletal illustration doesn't match the creature depicted in Aftershock. 5146_ADAM and the Hollow Earth skeleton don't line up with Godzilla or Dagon in Aftershock. You don't need to be a genius to see that. I didn't concede anything at all. In fact, I've doubled down. But you really, desperately want to win for some reason, so much so that you're merely claiming I've conceded. Things don't work that way, man. You've failed to convince me, and that's quite alright. I've been tired of going back and forth over this. I've made my points very clear. You can have your opinions, and I'll have mine, but this argument is over. It's a random skeleton in a wacky, completely unrealistic and potentially rushed movie, and the novelization's details don't match with it. The novelization also doesn't explicitly say that the skeleton was bigger than Godzilla or Dagon. You can follow the canon all you want, and you'll end up with Godzilla's stats being pulled straight from Popular Mechanics, and Ghidorah's weight being "121,00" tons. It's canon that Godzilla's once bony dorsal plates stretch, bend, and fold, too. It's wack. Enjoy. No hard feelings.
Jermobooka wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 9:37 am We’re seriously still arguing about the damn skeleton, eh?

It’s just the skeleton of a random Titan, there, done

This shouldn’t be taking whole pages :lol:
Thank you. I've got to just stop replying to stuff like that. I could've just ignored it. And highlighted, I said exactly that from the very start. :lol:

I'm done here. That was really stupid on my part.
ElijahSky wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 11:20 am
ernesth100 wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 10:56 am Lmaoo, ahem. If I may start another heated debate that will surely take several pages. Is there anyway Ren could've survived and a key in Ghidorah's return?

I'm still holding out hope Legendary sees the reviews. Many of which state the clear misusage of his character. It'd be a welcome and easy fix.
I haven't had the chance to read it yet myself, but I heard that the novelization states that they never found his body, implying he survived.

Seems like a good character to bring back for a Godzilla sequel if you ask me.
This series has a history of killing off the most interesting characters, so based on that precedent, it would seem that he'd never return. This could be an exception. I'm hoping that they'll do something with him, and that he's not dead after all. It's just that the novelization sets it up, but the movie doesn't.

Anyone else like the inclusion of the Argo in the novel? Would've been cool to see in the movie. It would've been cool if the Argo interrupted Mechagodzilla instead of that alcohol. I forget who mentioned that idea on here, but it was a good one.
mass opinion=/= correct assertion

Thank you for conceding. I will continue to accept the canon as it is what is correct, not a random forum poster's incoherent ramblings.

Is the Argo the way Dr. Russel gets to HK so damn fast? The entire story once Godzilla gets moving to HK takes course over a single day and AFAIK He never left Pensacola until they saw Godzilla hauling ass.
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Re: Godzilla vs. Kong Discussion Thread - FULL SPOILERS AHEAD

Post by MegaEvilSaurus666 »

Gawdziller1954 wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 6:40 pm mass opinion=/= correct assertion
You wholeheartedly believe your opinions are fact and everyone else is wrong, it seems. Like I said, you've become more arrogant as you've gone on.
Gawdziller1954 wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 6:40 pm Thank you for conceding. I will continue to accept the canon as it is what is correct, not a random forum poster's incoherent ramblings.
There's no need to be so petty about this. The argument was petty enough, so that's superfluous. You really want to feel like a winner for something so trivial and stupid. I did not concede anything; why are you so desperate and determined to "win?" I'm just tired of arguing with you. It's ridiculous how long this has gone on. Frankly, you're annoying and exhausting to debate with because you have a tendency to be dishonest in an attempt to undermine the arguments of others. I wish you could see that. But either way, you see it your way, and I will see it my way. Leave it at that.
obZen wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 5:19 pm Team Godzilla kinda grew on me.
I'm of the same opinion.
I wish they meant something more substantial to the plot, but I really like Bernie and Josh's interactions. They're kinda funny for the most part. There is one line I didn't like, and it's the "and sober" line after Josh pores the whiskey into the computer. It's the weakest line that Bernie has, and unfortunately Brian Tyree Henry just couldn't save that line. It stuck out like a sore thumb to me each time. Madison wasn't given much to do as a character, but at least she was independent and somewhat more interesting than in GKOTM. With more to do, she would have been far better.

I'm kind of a fan of the conspiracy theorist podcast host thing. Going against a big cybernetics company. I'm not sure if that was meant to have real-world implications or significance, if it was planned or inadvertent, but it's kinda interesting to see.
I'd change my username if I had the chance. It's a typo. It's supposed to be "66," and it's a very unfortunate thing to have on my account. Please help. :lol:

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Re: Godzilla vs. Kong Discussion Thread - FULL SPOILERS AHEAD

Post by Gawdziller1954 »

MegaEvilSaurus666 wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 9:37 pm
Gawdziller1954 wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 6:40 pm mass opinion=/= correct assertion
You wholeheartedly believe your opinions are fact and everyone else is wrong, it seems. Like I said, you've become more arrogant as you've gone on.
Gawdziller1954 wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 6:40 pm Thank you for conceding. I will continue to accept the canon as it is what is correct, not a random forum poster's incoherent ramblings.
There's no need to be so petty about this. The argument was petty enough, so that's superfluous. You really want to feel like a winner for something so trivial and stupid. I did not concede anything; why are you so desperate and determined to "win?" I'm just tired of arguing with you. It's ridiculous how long this has gone on. Frankly, you're annoying and exhausting to debate with because you have a tendency to be dishonest in an attempt to undermine the arguments of others. I wish you could see that. But either way, you see it your way, and I will see it my way. Leave it at that.
obZen wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 5:19 pm Team Godzilla kinda grew on me.
I'm of the same opinion.
I wish they meant something more substantial to the plot, but I really like Bernie and Josh's interactions. They're kinda funny for the most part. There is one line I didn't like, and it's the "and sober" line after Josh pores the whiskey into the computer. It's the weakest line that Bernie has, and unfortunately Brian Tyree Henry just couldn't save that line. It stuck out like a sore thumb to me each time. Madison wasn't given much to do as a character, but at least she was independent and somewhat more interesting than in GKOTM. With more to do, she would have been far better.

I'm kind of a fan of the conspiracy theorist podcast host thing. Going against a big cybernetics company. I'm not sure if that was meant to have real-world implications or significance, if it was planned or inadvertent, but it's kinda interesting to see.
Not my fault you see being right as dishonesty. I'm not desperate to "win" , either. I just ended the argument and left it at that and you decided to continue it. I believe people whose opinions line up with actual facts and canon material. Yours don't.
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Re: Godzilla vs. Kong Discussion Thread - FULL SPOILERS AHEAD

Post by Voyager »

The MV users are a whole different breed, lemme tell ya. Arguing about skeletons? Sheesh.

*Brushes Gwangi vs Gezora under the rug*
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Re: Godzilla vs. Kong Discussion Thread - FULL SPOILERS AHEAD

Post by Spuro »

Voyager wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 2:24 am Arguing about skeletons? Sheesh.

*Brushes Gwangi vs Gezora under the rug*
Not to mention Skeleturtle. ;)
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Re: Godzilla vs. Kong Discussion Thread - FULL SPOILERS AHEAD

Post by Gawdziller1954 »

KK42 wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 3:26 am
Voyager wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 2:24 am Arguing about skeletons? Sheesh.

*Brushes Gwangi vs Gezora under the rug*
Not to mention Skeleturtle. ;)
Has it ever been established if skeleturtle is even alive?
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Re: Godzilla vs. Kong Discussion Thread - FULL SPOILERS AHEAD

Post by MegaEvilSaurus666 »

Lesko wrote: Sun May 02, 2021 7:01 pm I had high hopes for this entry but I disliked it overall. I'm not too big on KotM either but it had some good ideas set up and this entry did not pay them off whatsoever. Where were the other titans? The hinted Mothra egg? These didn't need to be a big part of the story or anything but they could have at the very least shown them a little bit. The fights themselves were pretty dull except for the HK fight. The warbats and hellhawks don't get much screen time at all and the so called ocean battle was hardly a battle and mostly Godzilla just goofing off. I am also disappointed that Godzilla really only has a presence in the beginning and end. It just felt like a Kong film most of the time which in of itself isn't bad but I was expecting roughly equal for each monster. While I am on Godzilla, that is the biggest problem I have with the film. How Godzilla behaved differently just so Kong didn't immediately get decimated by him. What was that scene of Godzilla laughing about? Don't get me wrong, I liked it but it felt really out of place from the rest of the trilogy. Since when does this Godzilla enjoy damaging other monsters? Plus the whole Mechagodzilla was just very ridiculous. The match was so one-sided just as a cheap way to make Kong seem relevant after getting his ass whipped by Godzilla for his fans. Godzilla didn't even get a single good hit in which is very hard to believe. Plus Mechagodzilla came from that goofy Ghidorah's head. So why was Mechagodzilla also out of character with how savage and competent he was in the fight? Finally, can we stop with the cliche team up endings and actually have one of the characters destroy the other? I actually was surprised how bad Kong did get beat up though which in of itself was enjoyable. With the cliche ending I actually was a bit surprised they went as far as they did with the beating. It was savage and enjoyable. The devastating tail whip followed by the four legged mauling was pretty awesome but of course very short lived just like the brief skullcrawler cameo. Oh and don't even get me started on the characters...

So the only major positive I can think of is Kong himself. Kong is portrayed very well and has a good design. This movie certainly did him justice although I can't say the same for Godzilla. The whole sign language ordeal was cool and gave us a way to show Kong's intelligence without it seeming force or cheap. Kong also has a very primal sounding angry roar which is pretty nice. Further movies can easily be done with Kong like this. Hollow Earth was also pretty awesome visually and conceptually. I guess this was kind of outside of the scope of the movie but I would have liked to see more about this war between Kong and Godzilla's species. Just one of many things that should have been talked about more here but just wasn't. Like Serizawa. Was Serizawa even supposed to be related to the Serizawa from KotM? You really would never know there was a connection without the same name. Overall this movie just feels very incomplete from all of the stuff in past films that got ignored and even story elements introduced in this movie that were glossed over. Best way I could describe it is that GvK is GvK's worst enemy. It expects a lot of suppositions from the viewer while not fleshing out the interesting and enjoyable stuff that it actually had going for it. Very unfortunate.
Very nice review.
I share so many of the same opinions here, although I had no issue with the team up. Kong and Godzilla are a decent team, and it was awesome seeing them work together to take down Mechagodzilla. I do dislike Godzilla's characterization here. He doesn't move or fight the same as he did in the previous two movies, opting to use his atomic breath in close quarters against Kong, as opposed to grappling, shoving, throwing, etc. He also spams his atomic breath against Kong, causing needless destruction, which is out of character. I agree that the laugh is odd. It doesn't necessarily fit with this Godzilla. And I agree that Godzilla should have put up more of a fight against Mechagodzilla. He doesn't even get one hit.

Kong is excellent for all of the reasons you described. However, the overall plot, as well as the character of Kong, could have benefited from being split two seperate movies altogether. We could have had Kong: Hollow Earth, followed by Godzilla vs. Kong with the way the plot wanted to progress. There's not enough time for anything to be expanded upon or explained. The Hollow Earth wasn't properly explored, in my opinion. Godzilla didn't get much to do, either.
Gawdziller1954 wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 9:47 pm Not my fault you see being right as dishonesty. I'm not desperate to "win" , either. I just ended the argument and left it at that and you decided to continue it. I believe people whose opinions line up with actual facts and canon material. Yours don't.
There's one massive problem with your logic.
The canon materials are contradictory and do not align. Either with each other (movies vs. novels), or with the depictions of the creatures (Godzilla's appearance and Dagon in Aftershock vs. Philippines skeleton vs. 5146_ADAM). These are facts, and there's no disputing them. Everyone else can see the inconsistencies in the canon material, but you missed the point for pages. This is why I've called you dishonest. You'll have your opinions, and I'll have mine, but understand that others have merit to their arguments. You aren't totally right. You aren't infallible. If my opinions weren't based in fact and were incoherent, nobody would share the same opinions.
Voyager wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 2:24 am The MV users are a whole different breed, lemme tell ya. Arguing about skeletons? Sheesh.

*Brushes Gwangi vs Gezora under the rug*
:lol:
I'd rather not argue about dumb skeletons, honestly.
I'd rather discuss the beautiful VFX of this movie. Mostly for Kong, though.

I'd change my username if I had the chance. It's a typo. It's supposed to be "66," and it's a very unfortunate thing to have on my account. Please help. :lol:

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Re: Godzilla vs. Kong Discussion Thread - FULL SPOILERS AHEAD

Post by Gawdziller1954 »

MegaEvilSaurus666 wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 8:40 am
Lesko wrote: Sun May 02, 2021 7:01 pm I had high hopes for this entry but I disliked it overall. I'm not too big on KotM either but it had some good ideas set up and this entry did not pay them off whatsoever. Where were the other titans? The hinted Mothra egg? These didn't need to be a big part of the story or anything but they could have at the very least shown them a little bit. The fights themselves were pretty dull except for the HK fight. The warbats and hellhawks don't get much screen time at all and the so called ocean battle was hardly a battle and mostly Godzilla just goofing off. I am also disappointed that Godzilla really only has a presence in the beginning and end. It just felt like a Kong film most of the time which in of itself isn't bad but I was expecting roughly equal for each monster. While I am on Godzilla, that is the biggest problem I have with the film. How Godzilla behaved differently just so Kong didn't immediately get decimated by him. What was that scene of Godzilla laughing about? Don't get me wrong, I liked it but it felt really out of place from the rest of the trilogy. Since when does this Godzilla enjoy damaging other monsters? Plus the whole Mechagodzilla was just very ridiculous. The match was so one-sided just as a cheap way to make Kong seem relevant after getting his ass whipped by Godzilla for his fans. Godzilla didn't even get a single good hit in which is very hard to believe. Plus Mechagodzilla came from that goofy Ghidorah's head. So why was Mechagodzilla also out of character with how savage and competent he was in the fight? Finally, can we stop with the cliche team up endings and actually have one of the characters destroy the other? I actually was surprised how bad Kong did get beat up though which in of itself was enjoyable. With the cliche ending I actually was a bit surprised they went as far as they did with the beating. It was savage and enjoyable. The devastating tail whip followed by the four legged mauling was pretty awesome but of course very short lived just like the brief skullcrawler cameo. Oh and don't even get me started on the characters...

So the only major positive I can think of is Kong himself. Kong is portrayed very well and has a good design. This movie certainly did him justice although I can't say the same for Godzilla. The whole sign language ordeal was cool and gave us a way to show Kong's intelligence without it seeming force or cheap. Kong also has a very primal sounding angry roar which is pretty nice. Further movies can easily be done with Kong like this. Hollow Earth was also pretty awesome visually and conceptually. I guess this was kind of outside of the scope of the movie but I would have liked to see more about this war between Kong and Godzilla's species. Just one of many things that should have been talked about more here but just wasn't. Like Serizawa. Was Serizawa even supposed to be related to the Serizawa from KotM? You really would never know there was a connection without the same name. Overall this movie just feels very incomplete from all of the stuff in past films that got ignored and even story elements introduced in this movie that were glossed over. Best way I could describe it is that GvK is GvK's worst enemy. It expects a lot of suppositions from the viewer while not fleshing out the interesting and enjoyable stuff that it actually had going for it. Very unfortunate.
Very nice review.
I share so many of the same opinions here, although I had no issue with the team up. Kong and Godzilla are a decent team, and it was awesome seeing them work together to take down Mechagodzilla. I do dislike Godzilla's characterization here. He doesn't move or fight the same as he did in the previous two movies, opting to use his atomic breath in close quarters against Kong, as opposed to grappling, shoving, throwing, etc. He also spams his atomic breath against Kong, causing needless destruction, which is out of character. I agree that the laugh is odd. It doesn't necessarily fit with this Godzilla. And I agree that Godzilla should have put up more of a fight against Mechagodzilla. He doesn't even get one hit.

Kong is excellent for all of the reasons you described. However, the overall plot, as well as the character of Kong, could have benefited from being split two seperate movies altogether. We could have had Kong: Hollow Earth, followed by Godzilla vs. Kong with the way the plot wanted to progress. There's not enough time for anything to be expanded upon or explained. The Hollow Earth wasn't properly explored, in my opinion. Godzilla didn't get much to do, either.
Gawdziller1954 wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 9:47 pm Not my fault you see being right as dishonesty. I'm not desperate to "win" , either. I just ended the argument and left it at that and you decided to continue it. I believe people whose opinions line up with actual facts and canon material. Yours don't.
There's one massive problem with your logic.
The canon materials are contradictory and do not align. Either with each other (movies vs. novels), or with the depictions of the creatures (Godzilla's appearance and Dagon in Aftershock vs. Philippines skeleton vs. 5146_ADAM). These are facts, and there's no disputing them. Everyone else can see the inconsistencies in the canon material, but you missed the point for pages. This is why I've called you dishonest. You'll have your opinions, and I'll have mine, but understand that others have merit to their arguments. You aren't totally right. You aren't infallible. If my opinions weren't based in fact and were incoherent, nobody would share the same opinions.
Voyager wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 2:24 am The MV users are a whole different breed, lemme tell ya. Arguing about skeletons? Sheesh.

*Brushes Gwangi vs Gezora under the rug*
:lol:
I'd rather not argue about dumb skeletons, honestly.
I'd rather discuss the beautiful VFX of this movie. Mostly for Kong, though.

Acknowledging what is and isn't canon is not being dishonest lmao
I recognize there are holes in the canon (LOOKING AT YOU AWAKENING) but as much as I dislike it or the shitty dagon skeletal there's no circumventing the fact that that crappy book and skeletal are canon. I know i'm not totally right or infallible, but in this case I am right and you are not, and that is not my problem. And again, mass opinion=/=actuality. Continue calling me dishonest if you like. It shows a lack of understanding of what the word actually means. If you'd rather not argue about the godzilla skeleton in GvK you wouldn't have responded and left the argument like you've claimed to have done 2 times past.
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Re: Godzilla vs. Kong Discussion Thread - FULL SPOILERS AHEAD

Post by MrRockett »

So now the movie is out and has done well, I’ve come back in and see the non stop arguments over stupid shit revolving around “facts” of a giant monster movie and it’s reinforced my decision to leave the forums till such time a new movie is announced.
While the amount of time, research and dedication utilized in these arguments about bones, facial expressions etc is impressive...it’s also quite disturbing.
Hell I’m a fan of 45 years and it’s overkill even to me.
So enjoy all the time wasted on theoretical facts and figures on imaginary characters. I’ll be off in the real world.
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Re: Godzilla vs. Kong Discussion Thread - FULL SPOILERS AHEAD

Post by Jermobooka »

MES and Gawdziller’s feud is eternal and will never end

“It’s not Godzilla!”

“Yes it is!”

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“Uh-huh!”
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Re: Godzilla vs. Kong Discussion Thread - FULL SPOILERS AHEAD

Post by Thegarbagemonster »

MegaEvilSaurus666 wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 3:01 pm Anyone else like the inclusion of the Argo in the novel? Would've been cool to see in the movie. It would've been cool if the Argo interrupted Mechagodzilla instead of that alcohol. I forget who mentioned that idea on here, but it was a good one.
That was yours truly ;)
I still don't know why it wasn't used in the film... it seems strange, right? Another way they could've used it is if the bad guys actually got the HE energy data, were flying it up to Hong Kong and the ARGO intercepted them in the air. Maybe even doing something silly like swooping down and abducting the HEAVs like how they caught the plane in KOTM.

This is probably the only Godzilla movie outside of the Heisei films I actually wanted to see more human stuff in, lol.
(To sum up the Heisei ones, I just think they should've done more with the PSI stuff. I'm still baffled why they set up the whole "trying to control Godzilla with PSI" stuff in GvSG and then not use that to signal him to help the trapped MOGUERA pilots near the end.)
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Re: Godzilla vs. Kong Discussion Thread - FULL SPOILERS AHEAD

Post by MogeGoji1994 »

MorgolKing wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 9:30 am
miguelnuva wrote: Sun Apr 18, 2021 7:59 pm
MorgolKing wrote: Sun Apr 18, 2021 7:57 pm Like MegaEvilSaurus666, I do miss the tone and seriousness of G14. I would like to see Gareth Edwards return with a big budget to do a Destroy All Monsters type movie with several kaiju but with his eye for scope, weight, cinematography and "realistic" storytelling.

Despite the silliness of GvK's plot I do really enjoy it for what it is, and the kaiju action is really amazing. I think G14 and GvK, although quite different in tone, are the best of the MV films.
I put Wingard and even Doughtery over Edwards for Destroy all Titans. Edwards can have a different film.
I like Doughtery because he's such a huge fan of the franchise...but as a director, I'm not as sold. KoTM had way too many particle effects and cut aways in the middle of the fights, imo.

I feel like Doughtery should stay on board as consultant and help make the monsters feel like themselves/bring personality to the films, but leave the actual directing to more competent directors, whether new or old. I don't think Edwards should make another MV film, the series has departed too far and for too long from his original style
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Re: Godzilla vs. Kong Discussion Thread - FULL SPOILERS AHEAD

Post by MegaEvilSaurus666 »

Thegarbagemonster wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 10:15 am
MegaEvilSaurus666 wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 3:01 pm Anyone else like the inclusion of the Argo in the novel? Would've been cool to see in the movie. It would've been cool if the Argo interrupted Mechagodzilla instead of that alcohol. I forget who mentioned that idea on here, but it was a good one.
That was yours truly ;)
I still don't know why it wasn't used in the film... it seems strange, right? Another way they could've used it is if the bad guys actually got the HE energy data, were flying it up to Hong Kong and the ARGO intercepted them in the air. Maybe even doing something silly like swooping down and abducting the HEAVs like how they caught the plane in KOTM.

This is probably the only Godzilla movie outside of the Heisei films I actually wanted to see more human stuff in, lol.
(To sum up the Heisei ones, I just think they should've done more with the PSI stuff. I'm still baffled why they set up the whole "trying to control Godzilla with PSI" stuff in GvSG and then not use that to signal him to help the trapped MOGUERA pilots near the end.)
Ah, thought so. You have good ideas.
The Argo would have sort of tied up the advanced technology aspect of it all for me. Seeing more of the tech from GKOTM, even if further developed, would've made it cooler overall. It would have given Mark more to do.

As it is, there's not enough "meat" in this movie. I understand where you're coming from. It just flies by to give us the monster fights, which a lot of fans wanted, but I was satisfied with the human characters of Godzilla 2014 and Kong: Skull Island myself. All we needed with those were better written and more interesting human characters in a few places. I'm going to keep saying that a blend of the best parts of G2014 and K:SI would likely result in the best of the MonsterVerse. Edwards and Vogt-Roberts did the best of the four.

And I agree about the PSI stuff in the Heisei series. There wasn't quite enough of it.

Also, the Scaly Quadruped (Hollow Earth lizard) makes me wonder how many other offshoots could be added into Godzilla's evolution. It is said to be an "offshoot of the evolutionary branch that gave rise to Godzilla." Apparently, marine iguanas and Gila monsters were the inspiration for the design, other than Godzilla himself.
I'd change my username if I had the chance. It's a typo. It's supposed to be "66," and it's a very unfortunate thing to have on my account. Please help. :lol:

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