Godzilla vs. Kong Discussion Thread - FULL SPOILERS AHEAD

[Terasawa]

This wasn't my point at all. It was that because it's specifically Godzilla vs Kong, it doesn't necessarily need substance, it just needs to deliver on the title premise... The human story will only ever be there to serve THEM and get them where they need to be.

If only there wasn't a 1962 movie called King Kong vs. Godzilla which used ​its characters (human and monster alike) to lampoon rampant commercialism and spoof its own premise. A "compelling human story" isn't always required for a story to have substance.

Why is it hard for you to accept that some people didn't like the movie simply because their tastes require more than characters "only there to serve the monsters"? Do not condemn them for snobbery just because they value different artistic and entertainment standards than you. If anything, your posts come off as elitist in the way you criticized KotM's detractors as not having correctly understood that film. Oh, and your "keen observations" about other fans.

It really doesn't seem like anyone genuinely enjoys anything anymore, from my pov. It saddens me greatly, I still have childlike joy whenever I see new Godzilla media. And for god's sake, I'm 23! Lol

I wonder if you'd be willing to take this take into the Star Wars thread, where a number of the MV hardliners go on and on about their hatred of the Star Wars sequel trilogy. Or maybe bring it to the MCU thread, where some of the same members complain about the state of that series today. Or how about the Disney thread, where the announcement of a new live action Disney remake is met with universal contempt?

Again, just because you and others enjoyed it, doesn't mean everyone else must as well. I've enjoyed half of the MV entries to date (G14 and GvK, actually), and the recent Shin Godzilla. The movies I didn't like weren't because I'm a "hipster" or an "elitist" -- they just did not meet my standards. I think you're misinterpreting legitimate disappoint in these movies as something else altogether.

If you don't want others taking umbrage to your posts, maybe you should use far less derogatory language in the future. This subforum definitely has a problem with certain users trying to silence detractors of the MV movies by undermining and misrepresenting their opinions.

Just spew bad takes full of bitterness

Ironic.

[KingKaiju]

I never understood this notion that, because these films are popcorn movies, we suddenly have to throw away all expectation for any kind of substance. I don't think anyone walked into these films expecting The Godfather, or even Shin Godzilla. But the idea that people who criticize these films are "snobby" or "elitist" for wanting a better film is just ridiculous. I also love the inconsistencies too. The same critics who gave positive reviews to 2014 and KSI were fine... Until they criticized KOTM. But they're okay again, because they mostly liked GvK. However, prior to that, it was "this film is going to be ruined by the snobby critics!" Which also tells me that people really don't pay attention to who or what a critic is or can be. It's okay to like a movie, it's okay to even like a movie that most people hate. But this notion that it was meant to be a dumb movie, therefore we can't have any kind of standard, is dumb. That's been the biggest difference between the MCU and DCEU. All in all, they're all pretty ridiculous films. People dressed in superhero costumes fighting aliens and saving the world. But one series has been able to throw all that in, keep it fun, while giving us interesting films and characters, while the other has dropped the ball at almost every turn.

This wasn't my point at all. It was that because it's specifically Godzilla vs Kong, it doesn't necessarily need substance, it just needs to deliver on the title premise.
I'm gonna try my best to summarize my thoughts on the fanbase' obsession with substance in G Movies.
Though ANY other movie should have substance, I'm of the opinion that a concept like Godzilla vs Kong, doesn't need it. A movie concept like Destroy All Monsters however, does. There's a fine line between just big dumb movie and big movie that needs a compelling human story because of the title.

With a potential Destroy All Monsters, you expect some really big developments in the human story that particular movie to drive the plot and characters for their motivations to Destroy All Monsters. With Godzilla vs Kong- the name already gives away what the focus is, the two biggest Titans in cinema history clashing to decide who's King. The human story will only ever be there to serve THEM and get them where they need to be. It's not as prevalent as say DAM where the title promises a lot of action but also a prominent human element for a movie talking about the eradication of Titans(clearly from a Human's pov, since they are monsters in our eyes).

My stance is, substance isn't always needed. There's some movies that just don't need the classic Showa touch(over the top action but a really good human element). There's not always gonna be some hidden message to tell in a story or Godzilla movie. I just wish the fanbase accepted that already. What substance we needed, we got with the Kong scenes. Kong was literally the anchor for us, and he pulled it off spectacularly. I'm sure if someone took the time they could find a way to write GvK in a way where it could be filled with substance, but I can guarantee they'd be hard pressed to do it in a way that doesn't make the film's pacing be slower and make the humans feel like filler to pad out the runtime. I could do this(I literally am, tbf, I write fanfics sometimes and am currently writing my own version of the Monsterverse and making it spiritually driven), but it isn't necessary, unlike it is in, again, a theoretical Destroy All Monsters.
I don't like critics, never have, never will. It's a dead art, because they don't criticize anymore. Just spew bad takes full of bitterness or shill out for certain productions. I only look at their ratings as "are they gonna fuck us over this time as well?"
As for the elitism and snobs, I think youd be surprised how prevalent it is in the community. Specificaly the Twitter and Discord part of it with the YouTubers residing there. There's a really good reason GojiFan1993 left, aside from his personal life, he saw this fanbase heading down this direction years ago.

It really doesn't seem like anyone genuinely enjoys anything anymore, from my pov. It saddens me greatly, I still have childlike joy whenever I see new Godzilla media. And for god's sake, I'm 23! Lol

Have I said that I'd like a Destroy All Monsters, because I want a Destroy All Monsters lol. I want a good one to end the MV in say, 5 or so movies if it manages that long.

Good heavens I just realized how long this was, this is what happens when you're supercharged on caffeine and can't sleep at 4:44 in the morning

I think substance can be very broad. Like I mentioned before, it's the difference between the MCU and DCEU. Outside of something like Black Panther, the MCU films aren't these super deep films that are going to redefine how we see each other. But they're well written films, with good characters, that can balance action and drama. They not Wong Kar Wai films, but they're also not the Transformers movies. They're just solid movies. I don't think the monsterverse films need to be super deep, and I don't expect them to be. Godzilla, and what he is, is deeply rooted in trauma that we, as Americans, wouldn't understand. So I think just starting off there already kind of pigeonholes it. They're popcorn films, and should be as much. However, a film still needs to follow the rules that it set in its own universe. GvK is a big dumb movie, that I fucking loved. But it's a big dumb movie. That being said, it gave us great kaiju action, combined with just enough character development and exposition to keep us interested. Like you said, I think Kong's role in the film helped a lot. I've seen a lot of people complaining about the characterization between the two monsters, and how Godzilla is "an asshole." But I think Wingard absolutely nailed it. Of course Kong is going to be the more sympathetic of the two. I worry that the next Kongless Godzilla film may go down the same route that we saw with 2014 and KOTM. To me, the biggest difference between KOTM and GvK was that GvK delivered on it's promise. KOTM tried to have a dramatic anchor to it with the whole family Drama, and it was so poorly done that I was left cringing when I should've been emotionally invested. Unfortunately, with 11, that carried over to GvK a little bit (Team Godzilla sucked). But, beyond that, I thought Wingard gave us just enough to care while giving us big giant action sequences that we could really just absorb. Dougherty has this promise of a mostly monster action film. But it doesn't matter if the film is mostly action if the action is overedited. But, with your point of a potential DAM film. I think I'd disagree. That would be THE movie to crank it up on the popcorn. I saw a lot of people talking about how GvK needed to be that ridiculously rumored 3 hour run time, because we need to explain the hollow earth, Kong's history, his rivalry with Godzilla, MechaGodzilla, etc. But that's all just extra fat. Wingard gave us just enough to stay interested, and make sense of everything, and then we got glorious fights. That's all I want from a DAM movie. Essentially what GFW wished it could be. 1 hour and 45 minutes of monsters escaping, monarch panicking, and Godzilla just doing the rounds.

[Kaijucifer]

This wasn't my point at all. It was that because it's specifically Godzilla vs Kong, it doesn't necessarily need substance, it just needs to deliver on the title premise... The human story will only ever be there to serve THEM and get them where they need to be.

If only there wasn't a 1962 movie called King Kong vs. Godzilla which used ​its characters (human and monster alike) to lampoon rampant commercialism and spoof its own premise. A "compelling human story" isn't always required for a story to have substance.

Why is it hard for you to accept that some people didn't like the movie simply because their tastes require more than characters "only there to serve the monsters"? Do not condemn them for snobbery just because they value different artistic and entertainment standards than you. If anything, your posts come off as elitist in the way you criticized KotM's detractors as not having correctly understood that film. Oh, and your "keen observations" about other fans.

It really doesn't seem like anyone genuinely enjoys anything anymore, from my pov. It saddens me greatly, I still have childlike joy whenever I see new Godzilla media. And for god's sake, I'm 23! Lol

I wonder if you'd be willing to take this take into the Star Wars thread, where a number of the MV hardliners go on and on about their hatred of the Star Wars sequel trilogy. Or maybe bring it to the MCU thread, where some of the same members complain about the state of that series today. Or how about the Disney thread, where the announcement of a new live action Disney remake is met with universal contempt?

Again, just because you and others enjoyed it, doesn't mean everyone else must as well. I've enjoyed half of the MV entries to date (G14 and GvK, actually), and the recent Shin Godzilla. The movies I didn't like weren't because I'm a "hipster" or an "elitist" -- they just did not meet my standards. I think you're misinterpreting legitimate disappoint in these movies as something else altogether.

If you don't want others taking umbrage to your posts, maybe you should use far less derogatory language in the future. This subforum definitely has a problem with certain users trying to silence detractors of the MV movies by undermining and misrepresenting their opinions.

Just spew bad takes full of bitterness

Ironic.

Not even gonna bother with this. You seem to only see what you wanted to see with my replies. I don't think I said anything bad enough to warrant having my words twisted to look negative. I already said I wasn't trying to offend anyone, only observe, but I get the distinct impression you're upset with what I've said even though it wasn't directed at anyone in particular.

Added in 6 minutes 16 seconds:

I never understood this notion that, because these films are popcorn movies, we suddenly have to throw away all expectation for any kind of substance. I don't think anyone walked into these films expecting The Godfather, or even Shin Godzilla. But the idea that people who criticize these films are "snobby" or "elitist" for wanting a better film is just ridiculous. I also love the inconsistencies too. The same critics who gave positive reviews to 2014 and KSI were fine... Until they criticized KOTM. But they're okay again, because they mostly liked GvK. However, prior to that, it was "this film is going to be ruined by the snobby critics!" Which also tells me that people really don't pay attention to who or what a critic is or can be. It's okay to like a movie, it's okay to even like a movie that most people hate. But this notion that it was meant to be a dumb movie, therefore we can't have any kind of standard, is dumb. That's been the biggest difference between the MCU and DCEU. All in all, they're all pretty ridiculous films. People dressed in superhero costumes fighting aliens and saving the world. But one series has been able to throw all that in, keep it fun, while giving us interesting films and characters, while the other has dropped the ball at almost every turn.

This wasn't my point at all. It was that because it's specifically Godzilla vs Kong, it doesn't necessarily need substance, it just needs to deliver on the title premise.
I'm gonna try my best to summarize my thoughts on the fanbase' obsession with substance in G Movies.
Though ANY other movie should have substance, I'm of the opinion that a concept like Godzilla vs Kong, doesn't need it. A movie concept like Destroy All Monsters however, does. There's a fine line between just big dumb movie and big movie that needs a compelling human story because of the title.

With a potential Destroy All Monsters, you expect some really big developments in the human story that particular movie to drive the plot and characters for their motivations to Destroy All Monsters. With Godzilla vs Kong- the name already gives away what the focus is, the two biggest Titans in cinema history clashing to decide who's King. The human story will only ever be there to serve THEM and get them where they need to be. It's not as prevalent as say DAM where the title promises a lot of action but also a prominent human element for a movie talking about the eradication of Titans(clearly from a Human's pov, since they are monsters in our eyes).

My stance is, substance isn't always needed. There's some movies that just don't need the classic Showa touch(over the top action but a really good human element). There's not always gonna be some hidden message to tell in a story or Godzilla movie. I just wish the fanbase accepted that already. What substance we needed, we got with the Kong scenes. Kong was literally the anchor for us, and he pulled it off spectacularly. I'm sure if someone took the time they could find a way to write GvK in a way where it could be filled with substance, but I can guarantee they'd be hard pressed to do it in a way that doesn't make the film's pacing be slower and make the humans feel like filler to pad out the runtime. I could do this(I literally am, tbf, I write fanfics sometimes and am currently writing my own version of the Monsterverse and making it spiritually driven), but it isn't necessary, unlike it is in, again, a theoretical Destroy All Monsters.
I don't like critics, never have, never will. It's a dead art, because they don't criticize anymore. Just spew bad takes full of bitterness or shill out for certain productions. I only look at their ratings as "are they gonna fuck us over this time as well?"
As for the elitism and snobs, I think youd be surprised how prevalent it is in the community. Specificaly the Twitter and Discord part of it with the YouTubers residing there. There's a really good reason GojiFan1993 left, aside from his personal life, he saw this fanbase heading down this direction years ago.

It really doesn't seem like anyone genuinely enjoys anything anymore, from my pov. It saddens me greatly, I still have childlike joy whenever I see new Godzilla media. And for god's sake, I'm 23! Lol

Have I said that I'd like a Destroy All Monsters, because I want a Destroy All Monsters lol. I want a good one to end the MV in say, 5 or so movies if it manages that long.

Good heavens I just realized how long this was, this is what happens when you're supercharged on caffeine and can't sleep at 4:44 in the morning

I think substance can be very broad. Like I mentioned before, it's the difference between the MCU and DCEU. Outside of something like Black Panther, the MCU films aren't these super deep films that are going to redefine how we see each other. But they're well written films, with good characters, that can balance action and drama. They not Wong Kar Wai films, but they're also not the Transformers movies. They're just solid movies. I don't think the monsterverse films need to be super deep, and I don't expect them to be. Godzilla, and what he is, is deeply rooted in trauma that we, as Americans, wouldn't understand. So I think just starting off there already kind of pigeonholes it. They're popcorn films, and should be as much. However, a film still needs to follow the rules that it set in its own universe. GvK is a big dumb movie, that I fucking loved. But it's a big dumb movie. That being said, it gave us great kaiju action, combined with just enough character development and exposition to keep us interested. Like you said, I think Kong's role in the film helped a lot. I've seen a lot of people complaining about the characterization between the two monsters, and how Godzilla is "an asshole." But I think Wingard absolutely nailed it. Of course Kong is going to be the more sympathetic of the two. I worry that the next Kongless Godzilla film may go down the same route that we saw with 2014 and KOTM. To me, the biggest difference between KOTM and GvK was that GvK delivered on it's promise. KOTM tried to have a dramatic anchor to it with the whole family Drama, and it was so poorly done that I was left cringing when I should've been emotionally invested. Unfortunately, with 11, that carried over to GvK a little bit (Team Godzilla sucked). But, beyond that, I thought Wingard gave us just enough to care while giving us big giant action sequences that we could really just absorb. Dougherty has this promise of a mostly monster action film. But it doesn't matter if the film is mostly action if the action is overedited. But, with your point of a potential DAM film. I think I'd disagree. That would be THE movie to crank it up on the popcorn. I saw a lot of people talking about how GvK needed to be that ridiculously rumored 3 hour run time, because we need to explain the hollow earth, Kong's history, his rivalry with Godzilla, MechaGodzilla, etc. But that's all just extra fat. Wingard gave us just enough to stay interested, and make sense of everything, and then we got glorious fights. That's all I want from a DAM movie. Essentially what GFW wished it could be. 1 hour and 45 minutes of monsters escaping, monarch panicking, and Godzilla just doing the rounds.

I say this because, I really get the feeling that people complaining about the MV expect writing on par with the showa era. And I'm like, dude, we haven't gotten writing this good in a while and you'd have to be crazy to expect that from Hollywood these days. Rarely does Hollywood give even close to the amount of care and attention to narratives in tentpole blockbusters anymore. I'm not opposed to a well rounded and written MV movie but I will say that I wasn't expecting one in GvK. The reason why KKvG worked was because it didn't take itself seriously at all and did it's best to work as a satire on(okay yeah we all know so I'll spare you guys). So it went out of its way to be silly and make the events seem so ridiculous instead of trying to wow you.

[LSD Jellyfish]

China has so many huge cities with absurd numbers of skyscrapers, it's about time they started regularly being trashed by kaiju. It was always kinda weird that kaiju so rarely made that simple crossing to the Asian mainland, you know? I'm all for seeing more non-Japanese Asian cities used in this genre. Next stop, Shanghai!

... with a decent plot, ideally.

Heads up, I believe Vakanai, what you were originally responded to, meant to post here, so I moved the posts from the KOTM thread to this one.

I think more Chinese Cities don't get destroyed because the CCP probably won't allow a movie that makes China look bad to be shown. There's exceptions to the rule I'm sure, and probably big destruction scenes in some Chinese blockbusters, but due to history, I don't think the CCP will ever really be happy with a film that shows Japanese monsters attacking a Chinese city, unless those Japanese monsters are demonized.

Hong Kong is okay to destroy because China wants to control it and is sort of an exception.

[gottatalktothefake]

Finally fully vaccinated, so I’m seeing it again this Sunday. Doing a double feature with a quiet place 2.

[ClandestineCanine9]

Finally fully vaccinated, so I’m seeing it again this Sunday. Doing a double feature with a quiet place 2.

it's still in theaters?

[dillonking55]

Finally fully vaccinated, so I’m seeing it again this Sunday. Doing a double feature with a quiet place 2.

it's still in theaters?

Yep! My local theater is currently showing it once a day. It's still getting decent business (Mortal Kombat got removed weeks ago).

Gonna try to catch it one last time next week.

[Showzilla]

so, the author of Dominion confirmed the "permian Godzilla" theory is basically dead in the water, shout out to the guy who got the info

[Jermobooka]

so, the author of Dominion confirmed the "permian Godzilla" theory is basically dead in the water, shout out to the guy who got the info

So it was wrong. Doesn’t that mean that Godzilla tanking the Permian extinction event gets crossed off the feats list, too?

[gottatalktothefake]

so, the author of Dominion confirmed the "permian Godzilla" theory is basically dead in the water, shout out to the guy who got the info

So it was wrong. Doesn’t that mean that Godzilla tanking the Permian extinction event gets crossed off the feats list, too?

Drilling into the hollow earth is about the same energy output. So it evens out

[daveblackeye15]

So Permian Godzilla...basically he's not millions of years old?

[Showzilla]

so, the author of Dominion confirmed the "permian Godzilla" theory is basically dead in the water, shout out to the guy who got the info

So it was wrong. Doesn’t that mean that Godzilla tanking the Permian extinction event gets crossed off the feats list, too?

Ish

Your average Gojira can tank it, so Godzilla can too.

[miguelnuva]

so, the author of Dominion confirmed the "permian Godzilla" theory is basically dead in the water, shout out to the guy who got the info

The author or the artist because I don't think Greg Keyes is on Twitter. I'd also like to see this quote.

[plasmabeam]

Discord servers are a LOT simpler to talk in, only came to TK in 2019 for the spoilers threads, stayed around because some of the people here are really cool and interesting conversations happen sometimes (Good lord, had some good ones in the old GvK rumors thread, what a riot!), Speaking of, PLASMABEAM, where you at my man? Haven't seen you in a bit!

I'm alive, I'm alive!

I went a bit dormant here due to work. Plus, I can't wait til they announce a (the) future MV Godzilla movie. It's always good to have something Goji to wait for (and as much as I respect Kong, he's not interesting enough for me to post stuff about). Even though I knew a great deal of what was going to happen in GvK, this forum was addictive like what I'd imagine crack is like. I can't wait til it becomes like that again. Bring on the next MV Goji chapter.

[Showzilla]

so, the author of Dominion confirmed the "permian Godzilla" theory is basically dead in the water, shout out to the guy who got the info

The author or the artist because I don't think Greg Keyes is on Twitter. I'd also like to see this quote.

LindenHS,BTW

[Jermobooka]

MG’s height has officially been confirmed to be 466 feet!

Edit: Never mind. I got duped!

[Monke]

MG’s height has officially been confirmed to be 466 feet!

Edit: Never mind. I got duped!

I made a post regarding MG’s height a couple weeks ago, the 466ft number comes from the scaling of the SHMA figures. The Godzilla figure is 6.3 inches while the Mecha is 7.5 inches. So not 100% official but it’s something

[miguelnuva]

Legendary is retconing Godzilla's orgin then. That tells me they have futher plans for him and they might even set up he's not the last Godzilla.

[ClandestineCanine9]

Legendary is retconing Godzilla's orgin then. That tells me they have futher plans for him and they might even set up he's not the last Godzilla.

are we finally gonna get Godzilla vs Godzilla?

[miguelnuva]

Legendary is retconing Godzilla's orgin then. That tells me they have futher plans for him and they might even set up he's not the last Godzilla.

are we finally gonna get Godzilla vs Godzilla?

I'd personally love for Legendary Godzilla to fight what ever Toho is planning for their Reiwa Godzilla.

I feel Godzilla having a mate and a child however isn't off the table for Legendary.