Godzilla: King of the Monsters - General Discussion

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Pkmatrix
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Re: Godzilla: King of the Monsters - General Discussion

Post by Pkmatrix »

I'm going to need to rewatch it, but not only did GvK not surpass this movie for me...it did the exact OPPOSITE of EVERYTHING I liked about KOTM. GvK is easily my least favorite MonsterVerse movie, at least at the moment. I think everyone who criticized KOTM for having a weak story owes the movie a huge apology, KOTM is practically Shakespeare in comparison to GvK's story.

Really, the only thing GvK does better than this one IMO is the fight scenes and action are definitely way better, and it follows KOTM's lead with continuing to treat the kaiju as major characters in the story.

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Re: Godzilla: King of the Monsters - General Discussion

Post by DynomikeGojira »

Sorry I still think KOTM is my least favorite movie not only was GvK story better and more interesting but it was better paced and didn't distract from the monster action like KOTM did I do believe that KOTM gets too much hate sometimes it's not a terrible movie by any means and I still think Kyle Chandler is the best lead we have had in these films but KOTM left me frustrated and GvK did not which some people are complaining it didn't do enough too justify the Hollow Earth storyline but my counterpoint is that that G14, K:SI and KOTM each sets up and expands on that lore in each sucessive film until GvK and if we get a Kong sequel I'm sure they'll expand on that. I wish I did love KOTM as much as you did and you loved GvK as much as I did but it just goes to show how diverse our fandom is when it comes to tastes.

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Re: Godzilla: King of the Monsters - General Discussion

Post by KaijuKingGojira »

It’s funny, I saw GvK for the 4th time tonight and I will probably see it a 5th. I love it and it benefits from its break neck pace, it especially works because it is a “vs” movie that feels like it and I mean that in a good way. I watched KOTM 3x in the cinema and honestly couldn’t do a 4th. I feel that G14 has aged beautifully and gained appreciation from many whereas KOTM has aged much worse, at least for me. The human element of GvK blows KOTM out of the water. KOTM had some groundwork for a good story but if there’s one word for the story, I’d call it sloppy. One thing Michael did well was worldbuilding. What he did with the Titan backstories was great.

Humour was terrible, like really bad and forced. A lot of the times throughout the movie in the cinema, I kind of cringed because I knew how dodgy some of the script was.

Emma was terrible, I felt no sympathy for her and didn’t care when she died. “Oh we lost our son, I’ll enact a plan that will put millions of families through the same pain,” gtfo. That should have been something Mark came back at Emma with! “We lost Andrew and your plan is to make millions more lose their Andrew or their Maddie?” Her motivations were stupid and Jonah was there to have Charles Dance in the movie which was a colossal waste of talent.

Maddison was honestly ok. I liked Mark a lot and I like Kyle Chandler as an actor which probably helped. I think in the grand scheme of the story he was good. Serizawa was good but a lot of the other Monarch team were pretty bad. Same with the military component of Monarch. “What are a bunch of nerds gonna do with nukes?” That kind of script may have been passable in the 90’s but now... come on.

The oxygen destroyer... oh boy what a waste. Should have been a focal point at the meeting with Monarch and the government. Like it should have been a looming threat that was deployed with more gravitas instead of “Oh here’s this new secret weapon and... THERE IT IS!” It should have been either far grander in terms of story impact or left out completely.

Ghidorah... oh Ghidorah. I get that in terms of the impact he had on the earth was BIG and world ending... but my god it didn’t feel that way. He needed to be shown doing a lot more.The storm was a great idea but show it better. Show the devastation happening via the weather, show Ghidorah decimating a city/cities and actually tearing the military apart like nothing. Don’t cut to a devastated DC and show nothing happening except for Rodan flying around for a few seconds. Have Ghidorah land in a major city after being proceeded by a proper hurricane before he violently flaps his wings and levels buildings while going crazy with his gravity beams and just wrecking house. Hell, have the 3 heads all fire on the same spot (like Antarctica) which spreads throughout the city and the electricity climbs buildings in an outward arc before blowing them all up. He felt... underused.

Rodan had a great introduction scene... then nothing except a reallllly shi**y battle with Mothra that I’m sure Adam W would have done many times better. His design was phenomenal and he was very powerful/destructive but again, underused.

Mothra, they had the right idea but they should have pushed the deity concept more. They had the beautiful design but should have enhanced it more. Hell, even after Godzilla’s revival, have him and Mothra acknowledge each other. Also, come on, show the Mothra egg post credit instead of the news clipping.

Like someone posted earlier, the latter half of the movie stalls bad and really drags without as much of a payoff as I was expecting. I remember early review going on about how amazing the final battle was and when I saw it I was like... huh, thought there’d be more. The cutaways were WORSE than 2014. I mean there was Godzilla battling Ghidorah while Rodan was fighting Mothra. Jesus it should have been something for the ages. Instead it was choppy, had a ton of cutaways, not the best choreography and ended too quick without seeing enough. There were some pretty great key moments but it was basically all of the fight seen. I wanted to see them scrap more. Godzilla fighting Kkng shouldn’t have been so far above these epic battles but it is.

Soundtrack was quite good but I feel overrated. My favourite parts were actually the parts that didn’t rely on the classic themes. Also, I REALLY wish classic Godzilla roars weren’t used and mixed with his actual roar. It was jarring and felt cheap, like really cheap. Maybe the snippet of the 54 roar in the Arctic was good but the others? Really didn’t blend at all. In terms of design though, Michael did great, Godzilla looks incredible in this, although I wish the tip of his tail was the same as 2014.

I know it sounds like I’m ragging a lot on the movie but I do like it and, if I wait long enough between viewings, enjoy it but I can’t watch it over and over or I just fast forward to the few clear shots of monster battles there are. All in all it felt like a movie with TOO much fan service and not enough clear story. It could have easily been trimmed significantly story wise which would have allowed more monster action or had the characters simply written better. It has a real muddled feeling that grows more and more tbh. GvK was lean and mean. The characters weren’t nearly as annoying or boring and got us to the points quick. Team Kong was honestly great in terms of the MV and team G wasn’t annoying, I even chuckled a few times and their scenes didn’t overstay or wear me out. I feel like GvK hurts KOTM because it becomes a slog to get through after such breakneck pace and AMAZING action that is super clear and easy to follow with tremendous fight choreography. All in all I still quite like the movie but feel perhaps the big 3 they had the rights to- Ghidorah, Rodan and Mothra were underused and ultimately wasted. Whereas GvK is a vs movie and plays like one, KOTM felt like a more ensemble monster movie that didn’t deliver enough in the monster part.

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Re: Godzilla: King of the Monsters - General Discussion

Post by Your Boy Leroy »

Pkmatrix wrote: Thu Apr 01, 2021 3:43 am I'm going to need to rewatch it, but not only did GvK not surpass this movie for me...it did the exact OPPOSITE of EVERYTHING I liked about KOTM. GvK is easily my least favorite MonsterVerse movie, at least at the moment. I think everyone who criticized KOTM for having a weak story owes the movie a huge apology, KOTM is practically Shakespeare in comparison to GvK's story.

Really, the only thing GvK does better than this one IMO is the fight scenes and action are definitely way better, and it follows KOTM's lead with continuing to treat the kaiju as major characters in the story.
I’ll be the first then: I’m sorry, KOTM

I’ve spent the last two years since its release criticizing the film and being so disappointed in how far it strayed from G14. I’ve said many times before that I definitely don’t hate the film, but my initial disappointment was so great that my view on it has been incredibly tainted. I still don’t think it’s as good as it could’ve been, I stand by my criticisms, and still prefer G14 overall. But for me, GvK takes the spot of worst MV film, a spot once held by KOTM.

The action in GvK is generally much better than KOTM in terms of editing and special effects. But that’s it. Kong got excellent characterization, but all the monsters in KOTM got similarly excellent characterization, especially Godzilla (despite feeling so different in tone from G14). I still don’t think KOTM is very well-made narratively, but Goddamnit, AT LEAST IT TRIED TO HAVE A NARRATIVE. GvK’s story and characters are nothing but an excuse to have the monsters fight. The same can be said about any of the MV films, but being so self-aware of it just works against it. If the studio/director doesn’t give a skreeonk about the characters, then why the skreeonk would the audience? Some of the characters in KOTM were irritating, mostly because of the terrible dialogue, but the attempt is there, the intent is there, and that’s something I can now appreciate.

The parts of KOTM aren’t particularly done very well, but as a whole, it’s not too bad, and is better than I initially gave it credit for. GvK is only parts, the monster parts. The human parts don’t count because the studio/director have given up on everything except the monster parts. It’s not a cohesive, coherent movie at all and more a collection of set pieces.

All that being said, I never hated KOTM, and still don’t. I like it a hell of a lot more now thanks to GvK, which I also don’t hate. KOTM is a 7.5/10 for me, which is higher than what I initially thought of it. G14 is still a 9.5/10 and K: SI remains an 8/10. GvK is a 5/10 for me, because I literally only liked half of the movie (that is, if the monster parts even made up half of the movie).

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Re: Godzilla: King of the Monsters - General Discussion

Post by MrRockett »

Well now that I e seen the movie, I’ll just wait and see if there are more entries announced in the next few months.
I see the paragraphs long dissertations about why this was better/worse than other movies and the laborious reasons why (if they are indeed valid as opposed to many who are just wanting to generate equally long winded responses.)
So before I take a break from the forums I’m going to give you my MV rankings on my enjoying a movie scale and not some deeper analysis.

GVK
K:SI
KOTM
2014
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People Permanently In Timeout because they bring squirt guns filled with lotion to theaters and covertly squirt it in the crowd: goji89 aka “King Gonorrhea”

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Re: Godzilla: King of the Monsters - General Discussion

Post by kaijukurt »

I also wrote the first act of Godzilla: King of the Monsters while all of that was going on, but that was one where once Mike Doherty came in, he’s a writer-director, so he took it in his own direction. So some of the story stuff remained, but I had a lot less involvement in that film.

It’s funny, because in my draft, I had written Mechagodzilla into the film, and I was pretty stoked about the potential there.
Max Borenstein's KOTM draft had Mechagodzilla in it. Sadly I couldn't find any more details.

https://observer.com/2021/03/godzilla-v ... interview/
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Re: Godzilla: King of the Monsters - General Discussion

Post by nazburningether »

Spoiler:
Saw GVK for second time at theater.....still can't help but feel the movie was rushed a bit. Fast moving like a Ferrari. I'm sure Wingard has a director's cut with maybe 20 or so added minutes. After the movie....can't help but feel The Monsterverse is concluded. Seems like they tied a ribbon on franchise. Hopefully that's not the case.
Last edited by LSD Jellyfish on Thu Apr 01, 2021 8:11 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Godzilla: King of the Monsters - General Discussion

Post by LSD Jellyfish »

Spoiler:
nazburningether wrote: Thu Apr 01, 2021 7:17 am Saw GVK for second time at theater.....still can't help but feel the movie was rushed a bit. Fast moving like a Ferrari. I'm sure Wingard has a director's cut with maybe 20 or so added minutes. After the movie....can't help but feel The Monsterverse is concluded. Seems like they tied a ribbon on franchise. Hopefully that's not the case.
Wrong thread. I'll add a spoiler to this instead of deleting it, so you get a chance to just post it elsewhere.
Last edited by LSD Jellyfish on Thu Apr 01, 2021 8:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
Rodan95 wrote:The Shobijin are sat on by a fatass explorer and killed. Mothra is pissed and destroys Japan.

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Re: Godzilla: King of the Monsters - General Discussion

Post by Godzilla21 »

I watched this KOTM right before GvK yesterday. GvK defintely does the action better. No cutaways and frantic editing. The editing in KOTM is what really brings the movie down for me. GvK fight scenes are crisp and clear and I love the day time fights. Even the night time fight in HK is very clear due to all the lights. Just a beautiful looking film. I still like KOTM but to me its the weakest of the 3 Godzilla films in the MV so far.
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Re: Godzilla: King of the Monsters - General Discussion

Post by tokumei »

Pkmatrix wrote: Thu Apr 01, 2021 3:43 am Really, the only thing GvK does better than this one IMO is the fight scenes and action are definitely way better
I wouldn't even say that, personally. I preferred the more grounded style of G14 and KOTM. This time around the "camera" was all over the place and nothing obeyed the laws of physics. Not a style I like.

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Re: Godzilla: King of the Monsters - General Discussion

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tokumei wrote: Thu Apr 01, 2021 4:05 pm
Pkmatrix wrote: Thu Apr 01, 2021 3:43 am Really, the only thing GvK does better than this one IMO is the fight scenes and action are definitely way better
I wouldn't even say that, personally. I preferred the more grounded style of G14 and KOTM. This time around the "camera" was all over the place and nothing obeyed the laws of physics. Not a style I like.
I'm not going to hold the cinematography style here against the movie, for me it was fine even though I preferred the other three. The fight choreography is really what I appreciated here, I think these are some of the best choreographed fights in either franchise. :)

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Re: Godzilla: King of the Monsters - General Discussion

Post by Troyal1 »

tokumei wrote: Thu Apr 01, 2021 4:05 pm
Pkmatrix wrote: Thu Apr 01, 2021 3:43 am Really, the only thing GvK does better than this one IMO is the fight scenes and action are definitely way better
I wouldn't even say that, personally. I preferred the more grounded style of G14 and KOTM. This time around the "camera" was all over the place and nothing obeyed the laws of physics. Not a style I like.
I felt that KOTM was less grounded than GVK personally. Godzilla moved pretty fast and the buildings destruction was worse to me in KOTM. Everything there felt pretty fake, and sadly GVK had these moments as well(when Godzilla arrived in Hong Kong it looked awful) . Neither one of them touch g14 in realism that’s for sure.
Last edited by Troyal1 on Thu Apr 01, 2021 5:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Godzilla: King of the Monsters - General Discussion

Post by Jermobooka »

tokumei wrote: Thu Apr 01, 2021 4:05 pm This time around the "camera" was all over the place and nothing obeyed the laws of physics. Not a style I like.
I honestly do not get nitpicking about physics in a Godzilla movie. Neither could fundamentally coexist with the other lol
Troyal1 wrote: Thu Apr 01, 2021 5:15 pm I felt that KOTM was less grounded than KOTM personally.
saaaaame
Last edited by Jermobooka on Thu Apr 01, 2021 5:26 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: Godzilla: King of the Monsters - General Discussion

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Jermobooka wrote: Thu Apr 01, 2021 5:19 pm
tokumei wrote: Thu Apr 01, 2021 4:05 pm This time around the "camera" was all over the place and nothing obeyed the laws of physics. Not a style I like.
I honestly do not get nitpicking about physics in a Godzilla movie. Neither fundamentally cannot coexist with the other
Troyal1 wrote: Thu Apr 01, 2021 5:15 pm I felt that KOTM was less grounded than KOTM personally.
saaaaame
Skreeonk! I forgot to hit submit on the edit
Last edited by Troyal1 on Thu Apr 01, 2021 5:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Your Boy Leroy
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Re: Godzilla: King of the Monsters - General Discussion

Post by Your Boy Leroy »

I’m pretty sure you’re talking about that typical CGI-camera, the kind that pulls off ridiculous moves in order to make the action more exciting. I’ve always HATED that kind of cinematography myself. Luckily, the franchise has been pretty okay with it, and I think most if not all of the times that bullshit was used was in GvK. However, I found that even those particular shots were nowhere near as bad as they could’ve been.

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Re: Godzilla: King of the Monsters - General Discussion

Post by _JNavs_ »

I miss the street level shots, we got a few from MG and G in HK but none of the fights or of Kong for that matter.
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Re: Godzilla: King of the Monsters - General Discussion

Post by Your Boy Leroy »

The street level shots in all of the battle scenes in KOTM were extremely well done, even though they outnumbered the amount of actual battle shots themselves.

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Re: Godzilla: King of the Monsters - General Discussion

Post by tokumei »

Your Boy Leroy wrote: Thu Apr 01, 2021 7:30 pm I’m pretty sure you’re talking about that typical CGI-camera, the kind that pulls off ridiculous moves in order to make the action more exciting. I’ve always HATED that kind of cinematography myself. Luckily, the franchise has been pretty okay with it, and I think most if not all of the times that bullshit was used was in GvK. However, I found that even those particular shots were nowhere near as bad as they could’ve been.
This is exactly what I'm talking about; it's a big departure from the previous films. I'm genuinely surprised how many people are praising the FX in this movie. There are some good moments, but there are some REALLY bad ones too.

It wouldn't have bothered me as much if the story offered something more. There were a lot of good ideas that disappeared as quickly as they were introduced, I never felt invested in any of the characters, and the entire "Team Godzilla" subplot felt like meandering filler that was trying too hard to be funny.

It's all subjective though. Glad a lot of people liked it, but it wasn't what I was looking for. At least it's not Shin Godzilla.

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Re: Godzilla: King of the Monsters - General Discussion

Post by daveblackeye15 »

I'd say KOTMs had the better music and ending for sure. So many music beats stuck with me that weren't Toho tracks. Music like Godzilla being picked up and dropped, Mothra climbing up back when both are injured, Fire Godzilla putting down Ghidorah, Rodan awakening from the volcano. In this I'd say the music set the mood well and consistently, I really do like the synthesizer with neon colors feel. Out of the four MV movies GVK goes on the bottom.

I'd say this GVK has the weakest closing shots too. Big glorious emotional moment we see Godzilla walk back to the sea and swims away, disappearing like nothing happened in 2014. Kong angrily beats his chest as we close in on his eye to get the credits, with an epilogue of Marlow seeing his wife and son in Skull Island. The incredibly epic moment of numerous other Titans submitting to Godzilla's rule in KOTM. Not to say I wasn't happy that Kong had a new home and was adjusting to it with Jia being there.

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Re: Godzilla: King of the Monsters - General Discussion

Post by tokumei »

daveblackeye15 wrote: Thu Apr 01, 2021 9:03 pm I'd say this GVK has the weakest closing shots too ... Not to say I wasn't happy that Kong had a new home and was adjusting to it with Jia being there.
Apparently, that was supposed to be the post-credit scene. They realised during post-production that the ending was weak, so they brought it forward.

Apparently I'm not able to post links, but just Google "adam wingard post-credits".

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