Godzilla: King of the Monsters - General Discussion

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Re: Godzilla: King of the Monsters - General Discussion

Post by MechaGoji Bro7503 »

Jermobooka wrote: Mon Apr 05, 2021 2:09 pm
spinzilla wrote: Mon Apr 05, 2021 1:47 pm going back to KOTM in a post GvK world i think only highlights KOTM's weaknesses even more for me. Everything KOTM does well, GVK does better and everything GVK does bad, KOTM does even worse (for the most part). I will say KOTM probably has the best music of just about any of the films post Heisei. Don't get me wrong, GVK's writing, dialogue and characters are bad but because we spend so much more time with KOTM's cast(or at least it feels that way) the warts are so much more apparent. I think KOTM may be the most ambitious film of the MV bunch but it just tries to do so much that most things come out half baked. I still enjoy it but it is far and away the weakest of the Monsterverse films.
My thoughts exactly. Well, not exactly, since i absolutely despise this film in almost every way, but close enough
I agree as well. KOTM is frustrating for me because there's so much I should enjoy, but I utterly can't. They had all their cards ready for them, but it feel apart. I want to love the film, sadly it either annoys me greatly, or leaves me disappointed with its choice of direction.
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Re: Godzilla: King of the Monsters - General Discussion

Post by tbeasley »

Why do we have a stickied thread for KOTM but not G2014, KSI, GVK? Even the upcoming Skull Island series because why not.
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Re: Godzilla: King of the Monsters - General Discussion

Post by ROMG4 »

It still bothers me that bloody Mega Shark Vs. Mecha Shark arguably did more justice and portrayed the Oxygen Destroyer better than KOTM

I don't mind Ghidorah being immune to the Oxygen Destroyer, Ghidorah (excluding GMK) has been and represented a bigger threat than Godzilla. But the way the Oxygen Destroyer is just smashed into the film is beyond sacrilege

No hesitation, no pre-existing scene, no tension, no lasting consequences, no actual portrayal. Its just a generic energy weapon and its actual effects are just straight up the ANEB with a new name, the Oxygen Destroyer is supposed to be the ultimate weapon in the series no mecha, monster, or alien race is supposed to be able to match its effects. Its the next evolution of the arms race, the surpassing of the Nuclear bomb as the nightmare and its just cast aside with barely a mention

That's my big problem with KOTM it tries to do something but its unable to go any further. It has a bad pacing, writing, choreography, and balance. People say that it has more action than Godzilla 2014 and that might even be true on paper, Gareth cut away a lot in his film but his film was built up around that it was very intentional and when Gareth wanted you to see the monsters there was no barrier (screw the transfer)

In KOTM you'll have an obnoxious blue filter over everything, constant rain, fog and dust obscuring everything and when the action reaches a fever pitch we'll randomly cut to the characters searching an empty house or in a jeep chase. When Gareth cut to Brody in San-Francisco it was to complement and center the movie we could hear Goji and the MUTOs clashing in the background, we got a sense of San-Francisco from both a Human and Kaiju perspective, the choreography was on-point and crystal clear something KOTM just lacks in so many areas
Last edited by ROMG4 on Mon Apr 26, 2021 5:50 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Godzilla: King of the Monsters - General Discussion

Post by Jetty_Jags »

ROMG4 wrote: Mon Apr 26, 2021 5:48 am It still bothers me that bloody Mega Shark Vs. Mecha Shark arguably did more justice and portrayed the Oxygen Destroyer better than KOTM
I've never seen that film, can you explain how, or why it has an oxygen destroyer? I'm assuming its either a reference/homage, but I'm really not sure.
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Re: Godzilla: King of the Monsters - General Discussion

Post by H-Man »

tbeasley wrote: Sat Apr 24, 2021 11:51 am Why do we have a stickied thread for KOTM but not G2014, KSI, GVK? Even the upcoming Skull Island series because why not.
I made the suggestion to sticky those threads in the Suggestion forum, but none of the Mods or Admins responded.

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Re: Godzilla: King of the Monsters - General Discussion

Post by Gojira1604 »

KOTM BIBLICAL REFERENCES??!!
https://youtu.be/NLP_dWvYfCw
Last edited by Gojira1604 on Thu Apr 29, 2021 9:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Godzilla: King of the Monsters - General Discussion

Post by cloverfan98 »

Gojira1604 wrote: Thu Apr 29, 2021 9:58 pm KOTM BIBLICAL REFERENCES??!!
https://youtu.be/NLP_dWvYfCw
If you read or listen to the audiobook of the GKOTM novelization there are bits of legends, mythology, and religions worked into the beginning of every chapter that seem to describe the titans in the film. At the very end of the book is the verses of Job 41 describing the Leviathan basically implying that was Godzilla in the Bible. Plus the director specifically had the shot of King Ghidorah behind the cross to allude to him being the devil.

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Re: Godzilla: King of the Monsters - General Discussion

Post by Gawdziller1954 »

Legitimate, actual question: What would a Gareth Edwards KOTM really have looked like? What could we have expected for KG, Mothra and Rodan?
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Re: Godzilla: King of the Monsters - General Discussion

Post by Zasraniec »

I'm not a hater of KotM but I am great faith that sometime in the future there will be a Monsterverse film that is more hated than this one. Mark my words!

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Re: Godzilla: King of the Monsters - General Discussion

Post by ROMG4 »

Gawdziller1954 wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 11:22 pm Legitimate, actual question: What would a Gareth Edwards KOTM really have looked like? What could we have expected for KG, Mothra and Rodan?
I really would love to see Gareth edwards return to the Monsterverse, even as director of a spin-off. I would love to see a series set on Skull-Island in the 80s or 90s with the same style he had in 2014 and Rogue One
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Re: Godzilla: King of the Monsters - General Discussion

Post by JAGzilla »

In response to the conversation on the last page about Ghidorah targeting individual humans, I would argue that it makes perfect sense. Killing and dominating are literally this guy's whole thing. Jetty_Jags compared him to that one prick who likes to squish ants, and... yeah. That's who he is. That's what Ghidorah has always been. What do you think he thinks he's doing when he attacks Tokyo? Kicking rocks? Hell, no, he's targeting and slaughtering humans. Picking off the individuals when they're all he has in front of him is the same behavior on a more personal scale.

And in the Monsterverse, I think we can dispense with the notion that Titans consider humans to be insects. Humans worshipped them in the past, and they plainly know and recognize that fact. Even if we want to treat Kong as a special case, Godzilla glaring at our main characters on the submarine said it all. He fully knew he was dealing with sentient beings and was communicating his displeasure with the Oxygen Destroyer stunt.

And Ghidorah going after Madison made sense because he knew she had the ORCA, and therefore was specifically causing problems for him.
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Re: Godzilla: King of the Monsters - General Discussion

Post by Monke »

After watching GvK and KoTM recently, I just gotta say how durable King Ghidorah was with the atomic breath. For example when he’s strangled with Godzilla and he tanks the breath for a good 10-15 seconds. Ghidorah tanks every atomic breath that hits him and shakes it like it’s nothing. The atomic breath is more of a pushback when it comes to Ghidorah. Ghidorah’s invasive biology could come in to play, as in many cases, invasive species are advantageous to their counter parts.
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Re: Godzilla: King of the Monsters - General Discussion

Post by Relair »

Monke wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 11:12 am After watching GvK and KoTM recently, I just gotta say how durable King Ghidorah was with the atomic breath. For example when he’s strangled with Godzilla and he tanks the breath for a good 10-15 seconds. Ghidorah tanks every atomic breath that hits him and shakes it like it’s nothing. The atomic breath is more of a pushback when it comes to Ghidorah. Ghidorah’s invasive biology could come in to play, as in many cases, invasive species are advantageous to their counter parts.
Yeah he shrugs it off like it barely phases him, KotM KG is tanky as hell. It dropped the female Muto and Kong pretty much instantly, it's too bad he never got a clean shot on MechaGodzilla to see what that would have done.

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Re: Godzilla: King of the Monsters - General Discussion

Post by DynomikeGojira »

Reflecting on KOTM after GvK this was a disappointing film that had alot of promise but not the trainwreck that alot of people like to believe I think Kyle Chandler is awesome in this and he's my favorite MV lead and it kinda astounds me how people say his character in underdeveloped and you don't feel for him when he show far more emotion than Ford or Conrad. Vera Farmiga was truly wasted in this film and they would've been better of changing the story to her being forced to work for Jonah against her will and would make her sacrifice all the more powerful and trafic but in the actual movie she's batshit insane although to be movies credit they did imply that in the email between Mark and Maddie so it's not like they didn't set it up. I liked Millie Bobby Brown is this but again if the story was that they were forced to do this against their will it certainly would have had the audience feel more invested in their dire situation. Charles Dance was wasted in some ways but at the same time I was satisfied with him and I think he will likely show up again in a future movie. Ken Watanabe is truly the heart of these Godzilla films and I think despite enjoying GvK and Godzilla's role in it but you can tell that with Serizawa gone the emotional connection with Godzilla was severed and they tried to replace him with MBB but she definitely couldn't measure up to his brillance and energy he conveyed and you could just tell that him not being there made a huge difference and GvK didn't even take advantage of that and put in their story in the final film with Ren Serizawa which was a huge mistake and it's really felt like that Serizawa's sacrifice for Godzilla and his last line with Mark about Godzilla being the key to coexistence with Titans was glossed over to make Godzilla the villain and Kong the hero which is sad because Ken's final scene with Godzilla was incredibly powerful. I don't have a problem with Sally Hawkins early death because while I did like her character in G14 and in this film she was never more than Serizawa's assistant to me and I think Ghidorah killing her was important to show sadistic he was. The rest of the characters bordered on being good to ok at best and terrible at worst like Aisha Hinds was pretty good as the leader of G-Team she was smart and expierenced and I think she's an underrated character, O'Shea Jackson Jr and Anthony Ramos were fun didn't necessarily care for Elizabeth Ludlow she was bland, Zhang Ziyi I liked definitely would love to see her return more that we can get more development with her and her family and their connection to Mothra, Thomas Middleditch and Bradley Sitford were the comic reliefs and they annoying with Sitford being the worst offender but I didn't hate them, and the rest are pretty much cameos CHH Pounder was a great surprise because I especially loved her as Amanda Waller in JLU where she didn't trust the JL and likewise in this film she didn't trust Godzilla, David Straithern coming back was good but I would've liked a bigger role foe him because he's one of my favorite actors and I loved him in G14 and I certainly would've liked to see how his relationship with Serizawa and Godzilla has changed overtime but unfortunately they didn't elaborate on it and last Joe Morton as Dr. Brooks again a bigger role would've been cool because again he's a great actor but I think we'll see him again eventually.

Now for the monsters if there was one thing KOTM got right it was their characterization and while I'm highly critical of Mike Dougherty I will give him credit for being able to nail there personalities and at least in the actual storyline balanced. Godzilla's role in the the film compliment's and expands from G14 but my only real criticism was that they leaned to heavily on him being a hero therefore causing people to claim that Godzilla's actions in GvK are out of character when in reality Gareth Edwards intended for Godzilla to be an anit-hero, Mothra was great I'm glad that they able to retain the core elements of how Mothra is traditionally portrayed while at the same time modernizing it and making it consistent in this particular universe in that since Godzilla and Mothra both restore balance it made sense for them to be allies and she really had a great design that made her beautiful and badass and she took out Rodan so she definitely earned her title Queen of The Monsters, Rodan was by far the best monster in this film with so much personality this was his best role since the original Rodan and his fight with the jets is probably the best scene on any of the MV and his design along with the original and the 2004 design are my favorites. King Ghidorah was the true villain of the film and you can probably say in the all the MV and I thought he was portrayed pretty well but somewhat underdeveloped I would've liked to have seen him cause some more destruction but at the same time it made sense because like any bad rulers he made the other Titans do his dirty work for him and only jumped to action when his reign was interrupted in contrast to Godzilla who actively maintains peace and security himself. They really did a great job in making Godzilla and King Ghidorah rivals in this film and is definitely the best rivalry in the MV because of how personal it is their first meet up in Antarctica is still the greatest match up scene on the MV, I like how the film makes it believable that Godzilla could defeat Ghidorah but at the same give Ghidorah the edge not making it to one sided. Loved the other Titans because I always love seeing new monsters and they came up with some great and unique designs that really rivals Japanese kaiju in variety.

For the other aspects of the film I would've preferred that the tone was closer to G14 but the film is fairly more serious then many people realize, the score by Bear McCreary is awesome it's my favorite score and his Godzilla, Mothra, and Rodan themes are excellent not really big on Ghidorah theme unfortunately. I didn't have an issue with the way the Oxygen Destroyer was used but I agree with everyone else that more build up was necessary. The pacing for the first half was pretty good but after Mexico it really dragged one of the main reason why I like GvK better. The fight choreography was terrible in the sense that it was so interrupted that I couldn't enjoy it becuase they kept cutting back and forth it's the worst action sequences I've seen sonce the Transformers filns and say what you will about Gareth Edwards but he did a much superior job with his final battle with better pacing and longer shots it truly astounds why Mike Dougherty thought it was a good idea which damaged the film and damaged my opinion of him. All in all KOTM is still my least favorite MV film but it's not terrible and they had pieces of a great story in there but what we got instead was a sloppy film that had not business being as sloppy as it did with all the talent involved and the clear love that went into it and was a massive downgraded from what G14 and K:SI and only now did GvK get it back on the right track but not fully there yet despite it's massive improvements over this film. I'm unapologetic about the fact that I no longer want Mike Dougherty involved in the MonsterVerse and I stick by my opinion because he really harmed the franchise with alot of his choices and say what you will about Godzilla vs Kong but it reinvigorated interest in the MV and most of the people I know look forward to future installments now whereas after KOTM they and myself included couldn't care less about future films
Last edited by DynomikeGojira on Mon May 24, 2021 2:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Godzilla: King of the Monsters - General Discussion

Post by Godzilla165 »

DynomikeGojira wrote: Sun May 23, 2021 7:39 am
Spoiler:
Reflecting on KOTM after GvK this was a disappointing film that had alot of promise but not the trainwreck that alot of people like to believe I think Kyle Chandler is awesome in this and he's my favorite MV lead and it kinda astounds me how people say his character in underdeveloped and you don't feel for him when he show far more emotion than Ford or Conrad. Vera Farmiga was truly wasted in this film and they would've been better of changing the story to her being forced to work for Jonah against her will and would make her sacrifice all the more powerful and trafic but in the actual movie she's batshit insane although to be movies credit they did imply that in the email between Mark and Maddie so it's not like they didn't set it up. I liked Millie Bobby Brown is this but again if the story was that they were forced to do this against their will it certainly would have had the audience feel more invested in their dire situation. Charles Dance was wasted in some ways but at the same time I was satisfied with him and I think he will likely show up again in a future movie. Ken Watanabe is truly the heart of these Godzilla films and I think despite enjoying GvK and Godzilla's role in it but you can tell that with Serizawa gone the emotional connection with Godzilla was severed and they tried to replace him with MBB but she definitely couldn't measure up to his brillance and energy he conveyed and you could just tell that him not being there made a huge difference and GvK didn't even take advantage of that and put in their story in the final film with Ren Serizawa which was a huge mistake and it's really felt like that Serizawa's sacrifice for Godzilla and his last line with Mark about Godzilla being the key to coexistence with Titans was glossed over to make Godzilla the villain and Kong the hero which is sad because Ken's final scene with Godzilla was incredibly powerful. I don't have a problem with Sally Hawkins early death because while I did like her character in G14 and in this film she was never more than Serizawa's assistant to me and I think Ghidorah killing her was important to show sadistic he was. The rest of the characters bordered on being good to ok at best and terrible at worst like Aisha Hinds was pretty good as the leader of G-Team she was smart and expierenced and I think she's an underrated character, O'Shea Jackson Jr and Anthony Ramos were fun didn't necessarily care for Elizabeth Ludlow she was bland, Zhang Ziyi I liked definitely would love to see her return more that we can get more development with her and her family and their connection to Mothra, Thomas Middleditch and Bradley Sitford were the comic reliefs and they annoying with Sitford being the worst offender but I didn't hate them, and the rest are pretty much cameos CHH Pounder was a great surprise because I especially loved her as Amanda Waller in JLU where she didn't trust the JL and likewise in this film she didn't trust Godzilla, David Straithern coming back was good but I would've liked a bigger role foe him because he's one of my favorite actors and I loved him in G14 and I certainly would've liked to see how his relationship with Serizawa and Godzilla has changed overtime but unfortunately they didn't elaborate on it and last Joe Morton as Dr. Brooks again a bigger role would've been cool because again he's a great actor but I think we'll see him again eventually. Now for the monsters if there was one thing KOTM got right it was their characterization and while I'm highly critical of Mike Dougherty I will give him credit for being able to nail there personalities and at least in the actual storyline balanced. Godzilla's role in the the film compliment's and expands from G14 but my only real criticism was that they leaned to heavily on him being a hero therefore causing people to claim that Godzilla's actions in GvK are out of character when in reality Gareth Edwards intended for Godzilla to be an anit-hero, Mothra was great I'm glad that they able to retain the core elements of how Mothra is traditionally portrayed while at the same time modernizing it and making it consistent in this particular universe in that since Godzilla and Mothra both restore balance it made sense for them to be allies and she really had a great design that made her beautiful and badass and she took out Rodan so she definitely earned her title Queen of The Monsters, Rodan was by far the best monster in this film with so much personality this was his best role since the original Rodan and his fight with the jets is probably the best scene on any of the MV and his design along with the original and the 2004 design are my favorites. King Ghidorah was the true villain of the film and you can probably say in the all the MV and I thought he was portrayed pretty well but somewhat underdeveloped I would've liked to have seen him cause some more destruction but at the same time it made sense because like any bad rulers he made the other Titans do his dirty work for him and only jumped to action when his reign was interrupted in contrast to Godzilla who actively maintains peace and security himself. They really did a great job in making Godzilla and King Ghidorah rivals in this film and is definitely the best rivalry in the MV because of how personal it is their first meet up in Antarctica is still the greatest match up scene on the MV, I like how the film makes it believable that Godzilla could defeat Ghidorah but at the same give Ghidorah the edge not making it to one sided. Loved the other Titans because I always love seeing new monsters and they came up with some great and unique designs that really rivals Japanese kaiju in variety. For the other aspects of the film I would've preferred that the tone was closer to G14 but the film is fairly more serious then many people realize, the score by Bear McCreary is awesome it's my favorite score and his Godzilla, Mothra, and Rodan themes are excellent not really big on Ghidorah theme unfortunately. I didn't have an issue with the way the Oxygen Destroyer was used but I agree with everyone else that more build up was necessary. The pacing for the first half was pretty good but after Mexico it really dragged one of the main reason why I like GvK better. The fight choreography was terrible in the sense that it was so interrupted that I couldn't enjoy it becuase they kept cutting back and forth it's the worst action sequences I've seen sonce the Transformers filns and say what you will about Gareth Edwards but he did a much superior job with his final battle with better pacing and longer shots it truly astounds why Mike Dougherty thought it was a good idea which damaged the film and damaged my opinion of him. All in all KOTM is still my least favorite MV film but it's not terrible and they had pieces of a great story in there but what we got instead was a sloppy film that had not business being as sloppy as it did with all the talent involved and the clear love that went into it and was a massive downgraded from what G14 and K:SI and only now did GvK get it back on the right track but not fully there yet despite it's massive improvements over this film. I'm unapologetic about the fact that I no longer want Mike Dougherty involved in the MonsterVerse and I stick by my opinion because he really harmed the franchise with alot of his choices and say what you will about Godzilla vs Kong but it reinvigorated interest in the MV and most of the people I know look forward to future installments now whereas after KOTM they and myself included couldn't care less about future films
You may want to break this up into smaller paragraphs, mate ;).
Last edited by Godzilla165 on Mon May 24, 2021 11:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Godzilla: King of the Monsters - General Discussion

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^ I didn't realize I wrote that much😳

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Re: Godzilla: King of the Monsters - General Discussion

Post by ROMG4 »

JAGzilla wrote: Sun May 09, 2021 1:19 am In response to the conversation on the last page about Ghidorah targeting individual humans, I would argue that it makes perfect sense. Killing and dominating are literally this guy's whole thing. Jetty_Jags compared him to that one prick who likes to squish ants, and... yeah. That's who he is. That's what Ghidorah has always been. What do you think he thinks he's doing when he attacks Tokyo? Kicking rocks? Hell, no, he's targeting and slaughtering humans. Picking off the individuals when they're all he has in front of him is the same behavior on a more personal scale.

And in the Monsterverse, I think we can dispense with the notion that Titans consider humans to be insects. Humans worshipped them in the past, and they plainly know and recognize that fact. Even if we want to treat Kong as a special case, Godzilla glaring at our main characters on the submarine said it all. He fully knew he was dealing with sentient beings and was communicating his displeasure with the Oxygen Destroyer stunt.

And Ghidorah going after Madison made sense because he knew she had the ORCA, and therefore was specifically causing problems for him.
I've never really understood why some people had a fault with Ghidorah targeting individuals the series has always had moments where the Kaiju met face to face with Humans

Godzilla Vs. The Sea Monster had Godzilla pick up Dayo and protect her from the Condor, and Ebirah was going after and eating those who escaped, Godzilla Vs. Biollante had Godzilla look directly at Miko when she was trying to turn him away, Ghidorah 91 had Godzilla meet and directly kill Shindo, Godzilla 2000 had Godzilla kill Katagiri, there was also that Final Wars scene at the end, 2014 had Godzilla look at Brody, The Gargantuas had Gaira intentionally go after people, Frankenstein, Baragon, Mothra, Gorosaurus, Kong and so many more I'm likely forgetting

Its been apart of the series for ages that the monsters will occasionally notice people and interact with them in various ways it makes sense for Ghidorah to screw with people if he had the time. His intention has always been to be a massive prick to everything, its why he kills worlds because its fun to him

Heck didn't Rebirth of Mothra 3 have Ghidorah kidnap people to eat their life force or something?
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Re: Godzilla: King of the Monsters - General Discussion

Post by Vakanai »

Well I always liked this movie, I always objectively knew it wasn't "good", particularly from a writing aspect. However, post GvK, I think this movie holds up much better on the script and plot and characterization in comparison and as bad as GvK is it makes me appreciate this movie even more. I still can see the faults and weaknesses of this film, and how that may have led to the worse sins of GvK, but I can't hold it completely responsible for how awful GvK would ultimately turn out either.

I think to me the weird thing is, here in TK, people are still crapping on this film, while I'm the only soul crapping on GvK. But it is what it is I guess.
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Re: Godzilla: King of the Monsters - General Discussion

Post by Major sssspielberg! »

Vakanai wrote: Sun May 30, 2021 8:19 am Well I always liked this movie, I always objectively knew it wasn't "good", particularly from a writing aspect. However, post GvK, I think this movie holds up much better on the script and plot and characterization in comparison and as bad as GvK is it makes me appreciate this movie even more.
I agree that a lot of things I didn't like about King of the Monsters don't bother me as much post GvK. I was always bothered with the way King of the Monsters both took itself too seriously while also trying too hard to be self aware. At the end of the day though, I'll take King of the Monsters because at least the it pretends the plot matters.
I do have to say GvK does get points for Hong Kong and Godzilla finally rampaging.
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Re: Godzilla: King of the Monsters - General Discussion

Post by gottatalktothefake »

Vakanai wrote: Sun May 30, 2021 8:19 am Well I always liked this movie, I always objectively knew it wasn't "good", particularly from a writing aspect. However, post GvK, I think this movie holds up much better on the script and plot and characterization in comparison and as bad as GvK is it makes me appreciate this movie even more. I still can see the faults and weaknesses of this film, and how that may have led to the worse sins of GvK, but I can't hold it completely responsible for how awful GvK would ultimately turn out either.

I think to me the weird thing is, here in TK, people are still crapping on this film, while I'm the only soul crapping on GvK. But it is what it is I guess.
>Objectively
:roll:

That aside, you’re correct, TK holds onto things for way too long. We have movies on here that haven’t had any new content or even sequel announcements that people have been talking about for more than 5 years now. Just repeating themselves over and over again.

You gotta learn to move on eventually
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