What if: The MonsterVerse being cancelled

[Desghidorah]

Appreciate it for what it gave us. An American Godzilla remake with dignity and a fantastic reconstruction of the tropes associated with the Showa era, the first ever foreign adaptation of other Toho monsters, and a long awaited rematch with King Kong whom also got his own fantastic reboot which finally wasn't yet another remake of the 1933 film and some of its poorly aged tropes.

In effect, enjoy it for what it gave and look for what's next.

[Dv-218]

Appreciate it for what it gave us. An American Godzilla remake with dignity and a fantastic reconstruction of the tropes associated with the Showa era, the first ever foreign adaptation of other Toho monsters, and a long awaited rematch with King Kong whom also got his own fantastic reboot which finally wasn't yet another remake of the 1933 film and some of its poorly aged tropes.

In effect, enjoy it for what it gave and look for what's next.

Couldn't have said it better myself. It's surreal how just a few years ago all of this would have seemed like wishful thinking at best or as a joke. If this would have been it then honestly it is more than statisfying imo.

[DynomikeGojira]

Appreciate it for what it gave us. An American Godzilla remake with dignity and a fantastic reconstruction of the tropes associated with the Showa era, the first ever foreign adaptation of other Toho monsters, and a long awaited rematch with King Kong whom also got his own fantastic reboot which finally wasn't yet another remake of the 1933 film and some of its poorly aged tropes.

In effect, enjoy it for what it gave and look for what's next.

Couldn't have said it better myself. It's surreal how just a few years ago all of this would have seemed like wishful thinking at best or as a joke. If this would have been it then honestly it is more than statisfying imo.

Third, this has really been a golden age for kaiju fans and it really started with Legendary checking the chance with both Pacific Rim and Godzilla 2014. I'm thankful for what they gave us even if some films were disappointing to me.

[Desghidorah]

The MV will leave an impact, that is something even those who dislike it (and are perfectly allowed to), can admit. It not only brought Godzilla back in a big way, but I'd actually argue it set the stage for the idea of re-imagining the Big G. Yes the general look is still the same, but the MV version is the very first that does not have the atomic bombings directly responsible for his present existence. Be it the bombs just awakened him (Showa and Millennium eras), or mutated him from a prior form (Heisei). Even GMK still had some hefty ties and of course, the bomb still engendered the arrival back in 1954.

Now? Godzilla doesn't need to be the atomic bomb in the shape of a reptile. Could be the embodiment of natural force itself like in the MV, the aftermath of government mishandling and nuclear waste like in Shin, the ultimate lifeform brought on by nature's wrath like in the Anime Trilogy, or the impending apocalypse like in Singular Point. And little design elements or manner of the MV Godzilla have found itself into the DNA of the Reiwa era Toho designs. The general look and outline of the character remains the same, but the way they're used and the abilities or history they bring to the table has never been so diverse.

In context to how the franchise and characters are used going forward, the MV is every bit an important part of the Reiwa era as the Toho films.

[TheRealSpinoRex]

Idk what yall go on about when you say Shin doesn't have a lot of Godzilla.
He had plenty of screentime, and for most of the movie they are talking about HIM and how to beat him. Unlike 2014.

[Rando Yaguchi]

Idk what yall go on about when you say Shin doesn't have a lot of Godzilla.
He had plenty of screentime, and for most of the movie they are talking about HIM and how to beat him. Unlike 2014.

Facts. The entire movie revolves around Godzilla, and gives you the goods whenever he appears. The fourth form's raid on Tokyo is my favorite special effects sequence of any of these films.

[Vakanai]

Idk what yall go on about when you say Shin doesn't have a lot of Godzilla.
He had plenty of screentime, and for most of the movie they are talking about HIM and how to beat him. Unlike 2014.

Truth. Shin was great and is legitimately one of my favorite films ever, never mind just being one of my favorite Godzilla films. And it was such a marked improvement in Japanese special effects to anything I've seen before, it makes me so excited to see what they could do in the genre now and with Godzilla and the others. Sadly we haven't gotten much in the 5 years since. Not many Japanese special effects movies make it out here, heck only one I'm aware of was Bravestorm (not a great movie, but solid effects and giant mecha). But with Shin Ultraman and Kaiju Cleanup coming up, that might change soon.

[Spuro]

And it was such a marked improvement in Japanese special effects to anything I've seen before, it makes me so excited to see what they could do in the genre now and with Godzilla and the others.

It was quiet the opposite for me. Shin's model LOOKED good, but the way he was animated was so stiff and lifeless. To quote the movie: "He just walks." I'd much rather see a monster with a sub-par CGI model that's well animated, like Godzilla 1998, than a great CGI model that barely moves, like Shin Godzilla.

Unfortunately, the anime properties seem to show that any future live action film is probably going to go in the same direction...

[Vakanai]

And it was such a marked improvement in Japanese special effects to anything I've seen before, it makes me so excited to see what they could do in the genre now and with Godzilla and the others.

It was quiet the opposite for me. Shin's model LOOKED good, but the way he was animated was so stiff and lifeless. To quote the movie: "He just walks." I'd much rather see a monster with a sub-par CGI model that's well animated, like Godzilla 1998, than a great CGI model that barely moves, like Shin Godzilla.

Unfortunately, the anime properties seem to show that any future live action film is probably going to go in the same direction...

You know, people keep lobbing that at the special effects, but I think that's unfair - he wasn't wooden/slow because it was bad CGI, he moved slow because they wanted him to just walk. You can dislike that decision, and that's fair, but I think blaming the CGI for a director decision isn't right. The CGI was wonderful, the movement was slow not because of limitations of that CG.

Added in 3 minutes 18 seconds:
Basically, it's like blaming the CGI in GvK for Godzilla having a small head - has nothing to do with what the CGI was capable of. (And for once that's not me dissing on GvK fyi, just the most immediate example that came to mind on complaints people have that's unrelated to the CGI itself)

[TheRealSpinoRex]

And it was such a marked improvement in Japanese special effects to anything I've seen before, it makes me so excited to see what they could do in the genre now and with Godzilla and the others.

It was quiet the opposite for me. Shin's model LOOKED good, but the way he was animated was so stiff and lifeless. To quote the movie: "He just walks." I'd much rather see a monster with a sub-par CGI model that's well animated, like Godzilla 1998, than a great CGI model that barely moves, like Shin Godzilla.

Unfortunately, the anime properties seem to show that any future live action film is probably going to go in the same direction...

It was meant to replicate the slow, heavy movements and the lifeless character of the original Godzilla.

[gottatalktothefake]

And it was such a marked improvement in Japanese special effects to anything I've seen before, it makes me so excited to see what they could do in the genre now and with Godzilla and the others.

It was quiet the opposite for me. Shin's model LOOKED good, but the way he was animated was so stiff and lifeless. To quote the movie: "He just walks." I'd much rather see a monster with a sub-par CGI model that's well animated, like Godzilla 1998, than a great CGI model that barely moves, like Shin Godzilla.

Unfortunately, the anime properties seem to show that any future live action film is probably going to go in the same direction...

It was meant to replicate the slow, heavy movements and the lifeless character of the original Godzilla.

>original Godzilla
>lifeless

What the fuck you saying boy

[TheRealSpinoRex]

It was quiet the opposite for me. Shin's model LOOKED good, but the way he was animated was so stiff and lifeless. To quote the movie: "He just walks." I'd much rather see a monster with a sub-par CGI model that's well animated, like Godzilla 1998, than a great CGI model that barely moves, like Shin Godzilla.

Unfortunately, the anime properties seem to show that any future live action film is probably going to go in the same direction...

It was meant to replicate the slow, heavy movements and the lifeless character of the original Godzilla.

>original Godzilla
>lifeless

What the skreeonk you saying boy

>all he does is walk

[Spuro]

It was meant to replicate the slow, heavy movements and the lifeless character of the original Godzilla.

>original Godzilla
>lifeless

What the skreeonk you saying boy

>all he does is walk

Incorrect.

The original displayed signs of animalistic behavior. He instinctively bit down on the train that ran into his foot. He roared at and attacked the ringing clock tower, thinking it was a threat. He steps onto a power line and shocks himself, roars out in pain and smashes a building with his lashing tail. He chews down the radio tower because the flashing lights provoke him into aggression. He tries to paw at the jets flying by him like an animal brushing flies away from its face.

Shin Godzilla never gets any moments of personality like that. He explicitly doesn't react to anything in his surrounding environment until the moment the bunker busters injure him; and even after that his moments of interaction with his surroundings revolves entirely around shooting stuff.

[gottatalktothefake]

I don’t appreciate the revisionist history surrounding Godzilla being used to defend Shins lifelessness.

It’s one thing to like shin and acknowledge how he lacks the personality of other Godzilla’s, but it’s another thing entirely to make claims that every other Godzilla lacks it in order to try and deflect from that criticism.

I’ve been seeing a bunch of it over the last few years and it’s very annoying.

[Dv-218]

Yeah ngl seeing people use 1954 comparisons to explain Shin's behavior gets old fast. The way Shin is portrayed works great for the movie and the type of story it tells but it definitely doesn't behave in the same way as the 1954 Godzilla. There are several scenes that outright push and showcase how he is a creature with an agency, and he reacts to virtually everything that crosses his path- pretty brutally and in a very anger filled manner. For all intents and purposes he is treated as a being with a purpose and personality as much as he gets treated as a force of destruction and punishment. A far cry from any "living statue" portrayal.

[G1985]

Shin Godzilla never gets any moments of personality like that. He explicitly doesn't react to anything in his surrounding environment until the moment the bunker busters injure him; and even after that his moments of interaction with his surroundings revolves entirely around shooting stuff.

My only complaint about Shin (but it's a huge one) is how lifeless and expressionless he is. Nothing on him moves above the waist. For me, the story and "burnt carne asada" suit design makes far more sense if Shin were an inanimate godzillasaurus corpse raised from the dead and manipulated from within by a foreign lifeform. In other words, Shin is a zombie Godzilla, or (wait for it) a Plan 9 Godzilla, "brought to a simulated life by a mutant DNA electrode gun."

[Handsome Shrek]

Shin Godzilla as a franchise is dead. I have no desire to see that version of Godzilla anymore

But the Legendary Godzilla has a lot of potential that needs to be expanded-upon

[Vakanai]

Shin Godzilla never gets any moments of personality like that. He explicitly doesn't react to anything in his surrounding environment until the moment the bunker busters injure him; and even after that his moments of interaction with his surroundings revolves entirely around shooting stuff.

My only complaint about Shin (but it's a huge one) is how lifeless and expressionless he is. Nothing on him moves above the waist. For me, the story and "burnt carne asada" suit design makes far more sense if Shin were an inanimate godzillasaurus corpse raised from the dead and manipulated from within by a foreign lifeform. In other words, Shin is a zombie Godzilla, or (wait for it) a Plan 9 Godzilla, "brought to a simulated life by a mutant DNA electrode gun."

A bit of a nitpick, but not sure we can use "suit design" for a Godzilla that was portrayed 100% with a CGI model.

Added in 10 minutes 50 seconds:

Shin Godzilla as a franchise is dead. I have no desire to see that version of Godzilla anymore

But the Legendary Godzilla has a lot of potential that needs to be expanded-upon

Not surprising, but I strongly disagree with this - there's a lot of potential for a follow up to Shin. It's only a dead franchise if Toho wants it to be, but there's infinite possibilities of where the story could go from where Shin left off. Whereas for Legendary I'm hard pressed to come up with anything that's not a rehash of the plots we've seen before but with different kaiju and more or less hollow earth stuff (and no, this isn't another swipe at GvK, wanted to make one but this isn't that). Some kaiju poses some kind of threat to earth/balance/Godzilla's "king of the monsters" alpha status, he hunts them down to the ends of the earth, big fight, Godzilla wins. That's literally been the plot of all 3 films now, doubt a 4th will deviate much from it. Legendary's Godzilla is more about doing a basic Hollywood kaiju plot, but with the most beautiful CGI the genre's ever seen and kick ass fight scenes. But they're not experimental, hence why the films don't expand-upon what's come before much. It's why the sequels never deal with the destruction and fall out much from the previous films.

[Dynomy-DX]

Added in 10 minutes 50 seconds:

Shin Godzilla as a franchise is dead. I have no desire to see that version of Godzilla anymore

But the Legendary Godzilla has a lot of potential that needs to be expanded-upon

Not surprising, but I strongly disagree with this - there's a lot of potential for a follow up to Shin. It's only a dead franchise if Toho wants it to be, but there's infinite possibilities of where the story could go from where Shin left off. Whereas for Legendary I'm hard pressed to come up with anything that's not a rehash of the plots we've seen before but with different kaiju and more or less hollow earth stuff (and no, this isn't another swipe at GvK, wanted to make one but this isn't that). Some kaiju poses some kind of threat to earth/balance/Godzilla's "king of the monsters" alpha status, he hunts them down to the ends of the earth, big fight, Godzilla wins. That's literally been the plot of all 3 films now, doubt a 4th will deviate much from it. Legendary's Godzilla is more about doing a basic Hollywood kaiju plot, but with the most beautiful CGI the genre's ever seen and kick ass fight scenes. But they're not experimental, hence why the films don't expand-upon what's come before much. It's why the sequels never deal with the destruction and fall out much from the previous films.

I counter your disagreement with my own disagreement!

I actually don’t really see much else one could do with Shin. Toho’s already been reusing Shin’s foundation with the Anime Trilogy, and SP. Plus, while it would satisfy the folks that want to see more apocalypse Godzilla, I feel repeating that would be just as tiring as “Godzilla maintains balance” if it keeps happening. Hell, I’m already tired of it. I’m fine with it since we at least still have a traditional Godzilla in the Monsterverse, but still.

Speaking of which meanwhile, Legendary still has room they can take Godzilla. He’s been wrecking human life now, so why not have some consequence for that following GvK? I sincerely doubt the events of that movie will be ignored considering how well it did. There have been great ideas too involving Godzilla having to fight an enemy who’s like Biollante. An enemy who’s preserving too much nature, and Godzilla must choose between preserving his kind, or preserving the balance. Theres that Godzilla BC idea that gives us potential new visuals to explore and a whole world to fill in context.

“Wait, those monsterverse ideas won’t realistically happen!”
Eh. Probably, Probably not. The same way a Shin sequel may either catch the essence of the first, or feel like a dull attempt to recreate it. If we go into the what ifs, or even just differing opinions, it’s hard to say what’s likely to happen, or if it’ll even please anyone.

You don’t have to agree with any of these (I don’t expect you to, you wear your “GvK bad” badge a ton.) But still. While I don’t think the Monsterverse is about to go into MCU territory with 4 Phases and many crossovers that last 10 more years, I wouldn’t say it’s got no potential left.

[UltramanGoji]

Looking at Shin Godzilla from a pure story perspective, of course there's a lot that a sequel could make do with. Godzilla's awakening, the next stage of his evolution, the future of Yaguchi and company, etc.

But looking at it from the perspective of the writers and whether or not they have anything left to say...no, it doesn't really have much else for a sequel. The ending shot of Godzilla's spawn isn't a sequel hook, it's a thematic reminder that humanity is always one second too close to disaster. There hasn't been a single pitch, idea, or interpretation of that ending shot I've seen that has ever changed my mind regarding whether or not the film should get a sequel. It's almost always just people wanting to see the Godzillanoids in action, something that I very much doubt Anno, Higuchi and yes, even Toho would want to showcase.