Adam Wingard in talks to direct next Monsterverse film - Son of Kong?

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Re: Adam Wingard in talks to direct next Monsterverse film - Son of Kong?

Post by miguelnuva »

Vakanai wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 8:37 pm
miguelnuva wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 3:35 pm
Vakanai wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 3:24 pm

There was no genius to their fight. First, Godzilla can't let there be another Alpha level Titan who didn't go after him? That makes him an antagonist/kind of a jerk. Godzilla lost to a Kong in the past? In a comic book! You shouldn't have to include things not shown in the film to justify what happens in film. That's just wrong. Kong has no idea what's going on, no one has any idea what's going on if they didn't read some comic book. Godzilla, in film, had no good reason to be such a dick to Kong, it was never explained.

I'm sorry, but Godzilla in this film was rather villainous. Some Godzilla fans may be happy that he finally won a victory over Kong after losing in King Kong vs Godzilla - but most people are going to wish he hadn't, because he was a dick. The bully won.


You are implying the way humans see the world to the way Titans see the world. Kong doesn't know his place in the world yes, he is coming into contact with other Titans for the first time.

Godzilla however just got burned the last time Alpha Titans were running around in the world. Rodan turned on him, Ghidorah nearly destroyed the world, Kong did nothing and Mothra is now dead. As said before Godzilla knows that Kong is enemy and Kong is an Alpha, the human characters state Kong is an Alpha Titan. Godzilla knows Kong has left his island where he usually stays and now something is making him think Ghidorah is coming back.

Godzilla can't take any chances with leaving Kong and potentially Ghidorah around becasue what if Ghidorah is back and Kong who has a history with Godzilla decides the enemy of my enemy is my friend. Godzilla is potentially facing the worst crisis he has faced before with Kong popping back up in the world and he has no Mothra as back up, and humans seem to be siding with Kong and what ever they are doing with Ghidorah.

He looks like a bully because he's more powerful than Kong but no he is a King fighting to protect his turf. We just see things from Kong's side as he is even more of a good character than Godzilla and he is sadly learning his place in a world that Godzilla has being in charge of for eons.

Its the same way Batman seemed like an asshole against Superman in BvS even though Batman made a couple good points.
Or the director just did a terrible job at giving the character a motive or communicating it to the audience. You're argument might be right, or it could be wrong, but it sure as heck wasn't what we got on screen.
I only have to go into detail with you as we are both hardcore G-fans and require more explanation. Casual fans were fine with Godzilla didn't want Kong around because he was another Alpha Titan.

Godzilla is perceived as a Dick as you say because this film is the first time he is hunting down a Hero monster you care for. He hunted the Mutos and Ghidorah down the same way. Kong raised himself from birth so his parents didn't pass on Titan knowledge the saw way Godzilla must have been taught which is why Kong gets caught with his pants down.

Both Kong and Godzilla are acting correctly in the movie and true to character. Kong is seeing everything for the first time while Godzilla is acting on prior information.
You can put it on my Tombstone Mothra vs Godzilla> Gojira
my personal take

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Re: Adam Wingard in talks to direct next Monsterverse film - Son of Kong?

Post by gridiron_kaiju »

If you couldn’t figure out what was going on in the movie then that’s your fault not the directors. My friends who aren’t even fans knew exactly what was going on and why Godzilla was acting the way he was.

I think it’s hilarious how people get so angry at a movie like it slept with their sister or something :lol: :roll:

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Re: Adam Wingard in talks to direct next Monsterverse film - Son of Kong?

Post by Vakanai »

gridiron_kaiju wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 9:27 pm If you couldn’t figure out what was going on in the movie then that’s your fault not the directors. My friends who aren’t even fans knew exactly what was going on and why Godzilla was acting the way he was.

I think it’s hilarious how people get so angry at a movie like it slept with their sister or something :lol: :roll:
Oh I agree, everyone knew exactly why Godzilla was acting that way - he was just a big mean antagonistic lizard. Its just some people want to say he wasn't that way and was still in character from the previous films, which...just isn't true.

Added in 3 minutes 58 seconds:
miguelnuva wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 9:10 pm
Vakanai wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 8:37 pm
miguelnuva wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 3:35 pm

You are implying the way humans see the world to the way Titans see the world. Kong doesn't know his place in the world yes, he is coming into contact with other Titans for the first time.

Godzilla however just got burned the last time Alpha Titans were running around in the world. Rodan turned on him, Ghidorah nearly destroyed the world, Kong did nothing and Mothra is now dead. As said before Godzilla knows that Kong is enemy and Kong is an Alpha, the human characters state Kong is an Alpha Titan. Godzilla knows Kong has left his island where he usually stays and now something is making him think Ghidorah is coming back.

Godzilla can't take any chances with leaving Kong and potentially Ghidorah around becasue what if Ghidorah is back and Kong who has a history with Godzilla decides the enemy of my enemy is my friend. Godzilla is potentially facing the worst crisis he has faced before with Kong popping back up in the world and he has no Mothra as back up, and humans seem to be siding with Kong and what ever they are doing with Ghidorah.

He looks like a bully because he's more powerful than Kong but no he is a King fighting to protect his turf. We just see things from Kong's side as he is even more of a good character than Godzilla and he is sadly learning his place in a world that Godzilla has being in charge of for eons.

Its the same way Batman seemed like an asshole against Superman in BvS even though Batman made a couple good points.
Or the director just did a terrible job at giving the character a motive or communicating it to the audience. You're argument might be right, or it could be wrong, but it sure as heck wasn't what we got on screen.
I only have to go into detail with you as we are both hardcore G-fans and require more explanation. Casual fans were fine with Godzilla didn't want Kong around because he was another Alpha Titan.

Godzilla is perceived as a Dick as you say because this film is the first time he is hunting down a Hero monster you care for. He hunted the Mutos and Ghidorah down the same way. Kong raised himself from birth so his parents didn't pass on Titan knowledge the saw way Godzilla must have been taught which is why Kong gets caught with his pants down.

Both Kong and Godzilla are acting correctly in the movie and true to character. Kong is seeing everything for the first time while Godzilla is acting on prior information.
Yes, casual audiences were fine and got it - Godzilla was a dick.
No, "Titan knowledge" is just silly, and not shown in the movie.
And Godzilla was not in character. I mean yes, he was in character for 54 or Heisei, but not for MV.
I unapologetically, wholeheartedly, and without a doubt hate Godzilla vs Kong.

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Re: Adam Wingard in talks to direct next Monsterverse film - Son of Kong?

Post by gridiron_kaiju »

Vakanai wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 5:31 am Oh I agree, everyone knew exactly why Godzilla was acting that way - he was just a big mean antagonistic lizard. Its just some people want to say he wasn't that way and was still in character from the previous films, which...just isn't true.
So your upset Godzilla wasn’t a big, cuddly teddy bear?
Last edited by gridiron_kaiju on Thu May 13, 2021 5:44 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Adam Wingard in talks to direct next Monsterverse film - Son of Kong?

Post by miguelnuva »

Vakanai wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 5:31 am
gridiron_kaiju wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 9:27 pm If you couldn’t figure out what was going on in the movie then that’s your fault not the directors. My friends who aren’t even fans knew exactly what was going on and why Godzilla was acting the way he was.

I think it’s hilarious how people get so angry at a movie like it slept with their sister or something :lol: :roll:
Oh I agree, everyone knew exactly why Godzilla was acting that way - he was just a big mean antagonistic lizard. Its just some people want to say he wasn't that way and was still in character from the previous films, which...just isn't true.

Added in 3 minutes 58 seconds:
miguelnuva wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 9:10 pm
Vakanai wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 8:37 pm

Or the director just did a terrible job at giving the character a motive or communicating it to the audience. You're argument might be right, or it could be wrong, but it sure as heck wasn't what we got on screen.
I only have to go into detail with you as we are both hardcore G-fans and require more explanation. Casual fans were fine with Godzilla didn't want Kong around because he was another Alpha Titan.

Godzilla is perceived as a Dick as you say because this film is the first time he is hunting down a Hero monster you care for. He hunted the Mutos and Ghidorah down the same way. Kong raised himself from birth so his parents didn't pass on Titan knowledge the saw way Godzilla must have been taught which is why Kong gets caught with his pants down.

Both Kong and Godzilla are acting correctly in the movie and true to character. Kong is seeing everything for the first time while Godzilla is acting on prior information.
Yes, casual audiences were fine and got it - Godzilla was a dick.
No, "Titan knowledge" is just silly, and not shown in the movie.
And Godzilla was not in character. I mean yes, he was in character for 54 or Heisei, but not for MV.
Kong grew up with parents and was a stranger to the Titan higherarcy, Godzilla knows what is going on and either learned it the same way Kong did in this movie or his parents taught him. The movie doesn't need to directly say this we know that's how all children learn, human or animal.

Also not trying to debate but out of curiosity why do you not think Godzilla is a dick in 14 or kotm?
You can put it on my Tombstone Mothra vs Godzilla> Gojira
my personal take

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Re: Adam Wingard in talks to direct next Monsterverse film - Son of Kong?

Post by Vakanai »

gridiron_kaiju wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 5:43 am
Vakanai wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 5:31 am Oh I agree, everyone knew exactly why Godzilla was acting that way - he was just a big mean antagonistic lizard. Its just some people want to say he wasn't that way and was still in character from the previous films, which...just isn't true.
So your upset Godzilla wasn’t a big, cuddly teddy bear?
Of course not - I'm upset that two movies characterization was dropped for no reason and was never explained on film. You seem to not get that the previous two showings before this movie matter and should have been taken into account. I don't think Wingard even watched them.

Added in 3 minutes 40 seconds:
miguelnuva wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 11:48 am
Vakanai wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 5:31 am
gridiron_kaiju wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 9:27 pm If you couldn’t figure out what was going on in the movie then that’s your fault not the directors. My friends who aren’t even fans knew exactly what was going on and why Godzilla was acting the way he was.

I think it’s hilarious how people get so angry at a movie like it slept with their sister or something :lol: :roll:
Oh I agree, everyone knew exactly why Godzilla was acting that way - he was just a big mean antagonistic lizard. Its just some people want to say he wasn't that way and was still in character from the previous films, which...just isn't true.

Added in 3 minutes 58 seconds:
miguelnuva wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 9:10 pm

I only have to go into detail with you as we are both hardcore G-fans and require more explanation. Casual fans were fine with Godzilla didn't want Kong around because he was another Alpha Titan.

Godzilla is perceived as a Dick as you say because this film is the first time he is hunting down a Hero monster you care for. He hunted the Mutos and Ghidorah down the same way. Kong raised himself from birth so his parents didn't pass on Titan knowledge the saw way Godzilla must have been taught which is why Kong gets caught with his pants down.

Both Kong and Godzilla are acting correctly in the movie and true to character. Kong is seeing everything for the first time while Godzilla is acting on prior information.
Yes, casual audiences were fine and got it - Godzilla was a dick.
No, "Titan knowledge" is just silly, and not shown in the movie.
And Godzilla was not in character. I mean yes, he was in character for 54 or Heisei, but not for MV.
Kong grew up with parents and was a stranger to the Titan higherarcy, Godzilla knows what is going on and either learned it the same way Kong did in this movie or his parents taught him. The movie doesn't need to directly say this we know that's how all children learn, human or animal.

Also not trying to debate but out of curiosity why do you not think Godzilla is a dick in 14 or kotm?
You keep talking about what Godzilla knows learning from Pazilla's and Mazilla's knees as a wee babe that poor orphan Kong didn't get taught. That's silly, doesn't make much sense, and worse was never ever explained on screen. You're either making it up, or getting it from somewhere else other than the movie we got.
I unapologetically, wholeheartedly, and without a doubt hate Godzilla vs Kong.

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Re: Adam Wingard in talks to direct next Monsterverse film - Son of Kong?

Post by miguelnuva »

Vakanai wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 3:53 pm
gridiron_kaiju wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 5:43 am
Vakanai wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 5:31 am Oh I agree, everyone knew exactly why Godzilla was acting that way - he was just a big mean antagonistic lizard. Its just some people want to say he wasn't that way and was still in character from the previous films, which...just isn't true.
So your upset Godzilla wasn’t a big, cuddly teddy bear?
Of course not - I'm upset that two movies characterization was dropped for no reason and was never explained on film. You seem to not get that the previous two showings before this movie matter and should have been taken into account. I don't think Wingard even watched them.

Added in 3 minutes 40 seconds:
miguelnuva wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 11:48 am
Vakanai wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 5:31 am

Oh I agree, everyone knew exactly why Godzilla was acting that way - he was just a big mean antagonistic lizard. Its just some people want to say he wasn't that way and was still in character from the previous films, which...just isn't true.

Added in 3 minutes 58 seconds:


Yes, casual audiences were fine and got it - Godzilla was a dick.
No, "Titan knowledge" is just silly, and not shown in the movie.
And Godzilla was not in character. I mean yes, he was in character for 54 or Heisei, but not for MV.
Kong grew up with parents and was a stranger to the Titan higherarcy, Godzilla knows what is going on and either learned it the same way Kong did in this movie or his parents taught him. The movie doesn't need to directly say this we know that's how all children learn, human or animal.

Also not trying to debate but out of curiosity why do you not think Godzilla is a dick in 14 or kotm?
You keep talking about what Godzilla knows learning from Pazilla's and Mazilla's knees as a wee babe that poor orphan Kong didn't get taught. That's silly, doesn't make much sense, and worse was never ever explained on screen. You're either making it up, or getting it from somewhere else other than the movie we got.
I told you were I got it from. Everything parent rather it be animal or human teaches their kids. Animals also learn where they fit in in life.

Godzilla grew up in a world where you fight to survive and Alpha Titans are a threat to survival. This Alphas are threats came to pass in Kotm when a rival Alpha took over and nearly killed him. Godzilla has little reason to take a chance with Kong potential doing what Ghidorah did.

Kong who was isolated on Skull Island and who had to raise himself would have no idea why Godzilla is after him or what an Alpha Titan is. He just knows he marches to the beat of his own drum.

All of this is explained in the two Godzilla movies and the kong movie before this one.

No it's not as clear as it could be but it's also not that hard to make this stroy from the MV.
You can put it on my Tombstone Mothra vs Godzilla> Gojira
my personal take

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Re: Adam Wingard in talks to direct next Monsterverse film - Son of Kong?

Post by imposterzilla »

gridiron_kaiju wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 9:27 pm If you couldn’t figure out what was going on in the movie then that’s your fault not the directors. My friends who aren’t even fans knew exactly what was going on and why Godzilla was acting the way he was.

I think it’s hilarious how people get so angry at a movie like it slept with their sister or something :lol: :roll:
(Gets shotgun) Damn that movie...

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Re: Adam Wingard in talks to direct next Monsterverse film - Son of Kong?

Post by Vakanai »

miguelnuva wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 5:45 pm
Vakanai wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 3:53 pm
gridiron_kaiju wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 5:43 am

So your upset Godzilla wasn’t a big, cuddly teddy bear?
Of course not - I'm upset that two movies characterization was dropped for no reason and was never explained on film. You seem to not get that the previous two showings before this movie matter and should have been taken into account. I don't think Wingard even watched them.

Added in 3 minutes 40 seconds:
miguelnuva wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 11:48 am

Kong grew up with parents and was a stranger to the Titan higherarcy, Godzilla knows what is going on and either learned it the same way Kong did in this movie or his parents taught him. The movie doesn't need to directly say this we know that's how all children learn, human or animal.

Also not trying to debate but out of curiosity why do you not think Godzilla is a dick in 14 or kotm?
You keep talking about what Godzilla knows learning from Pazilla's and Mazilla's knees as a wee babe that poor orphan Kong didn't get taught. That's silly, doesn't make much sense, and worse was never ever explained on screen. You're either making it up, or getting it from somewhere else other than the movie we got.
I told you were I got it from. Everything parent rather it be animal or human teaches their kids. Animals also learn where they fit in in life.

Godzilla grew up in a world where you fight to survive and Alpha Titans are a threat to survival. This Alphas are threats came to pass in Kotm when a rival Alpha took over and nearly killed him. Godzilla has little reason to take a chance with Kong potential doing what Ghidorah did.

Kong who was isolated on Skull Island and who had to raise himself would have no idea why Godzilla is after him or what an Alpha Titan is. He just knows he marches to the beat of his own drum.

All of this is explained in the two Godzilla movies and the kong movie before this one.

No it's not as clear as it could be but it's also not that hard to make this stroy from the MV.
You told me you got it from a comic book. I'm telling you if it's not in the film itself it doesn't matter.
And plenty of animals don't learn from their parents - fish, amphibians, reptiles...
And even those that do? There's a limit. I don't see ancient rivalries being taught quite like that.
And even then? It wasn't shown or implied in film.

You're doing more mental gymnastics here than Wingard did when making this movie. He just ignored the previous two movies and had Godzilla be a villainous antagonist.
I unapologetically, wholeheartedly, and without a doubt hate Godzilla vs Kong.

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Re: Adam Wingard in talks to direct next Monsterverse film - Son of Kong?

Post by miguelnuva »

Vakanai wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 11:41 pm
miguelnuva wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 5:45 pm
Vakanai wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 3:53 pm

Of course not - I'm upset that two movies characterization was dropped for no reason and was never explained on film. You seem to not get that the previous two showings before this movie matter and should have been taken into account. I don't think Wingard even watched them.

Added in 3 minutes 40 seconds:


You keep talking about what Godzilla knows learning from Pazilla's and Mazilla's knees as a wee babe that poor orphan Kong didn't get taught. That's silly, doesn't make much sense, and worse was never ever explained on screen. You're either making it up, or getting it from somewhere else other than the movie we got.
I told you were I got it from. Everything parent rather it be animal or human teaches their kids. Animals also learn where they fit in in life.

Godzilla grew up in a world where you fight to survive and Alpha Titans are a threat to survival. This Alphas are threats came to pass in Kotm when a rival Alpha took over and nearly killed him. Godzilla has little reason to take a chance with Kong potential doing what Ghidorah did.

Kong who was isolated on Skull Island and who had to raise himself would have no idea why Godzilla is after him or what an Alpha Titan is. He just knows he marches to the beat of his own drum.

All of this is explained in the two Godzilla movies and the kong movie before this one.

No it's not as clear as it could be but it's also not that hard to make this stroy from the MV.
You told me you got it from a comic book. I'm telling you if it's not in the film itself it doesn't matter.
And plenty of animals don't learn from their parents - fish, amphibians, reptiles...
And even those that do? There's a limit. I don't see ancient rivalries being taught quite like that.
And even then? It wasn't shown or implied in film.

You're doing more mental gymnastics here than Wingard did when making this movie. He just ignored the previous two movies and had Godzilla be a villainous antagonist.
I mentioned one thing from the comic and that was Godzilla himself losing to a Kong which I said I'll not mention as you were right it's not in the movie.

The Titans are shown to be highly intelligent, highly intelligent animals teach their young. King is smart enough to talk and Godzilla is just as smart as him.

I'm not going to insult you but I could say your doing just as much mental gymnastics. What did Godzilla do to Kong that was so much worse than Ghidorah or the Mutos?
You can put it on my Tombstone Mothra vs Godzilla> Gojira
my personal take

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Re: Adam Wingard in talks to direct next Monsterverse film - Son of Kong?

Post by DynomikeGojira »

Godzilla and Kong's war is really a case of misunderstanding happened in The Avengers and Batman vs Superman and besides these are animals who saw each other as threat. Pretty simple if you ask me.

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Re: Adam Wingard in talks to direct next Monsterverse film - Son of Kong?

Post by Smuggers »

So sad that Godzilla's mommy and daddy brought him up to be Kong-prejudiced :(
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Re: Adam Wingard in talks to direct next Monsterverse film - Son of Kong?

Post by JAGzilla »

miguelnuva wrote: Fri May 14, 2021 1:12 am The Titans are shown to be highly intelligent, highly intelligent animals teach their young.
Congratulations, you just insulted every octopus on the planet.
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Re: Adam Wingard in talks to direct next Monsterverse film - Son of Kong?

Post by Vakanai »

miguelnuva wrote: Fri May 14, 2021 1:12 am
Vakanai wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 11:41 pm
miguelnuva wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 5:45 pm

I told you were I got it from. Everything parent rather it be animal or human teaches their kids. Animals also learn where they fit in in life.

Godzilla grew up in a world where you fight to survive and Alpha Titans are a threat to survival. This Alphas are threats came to pass in Kotm when a rival Alpha took over and nearly killed him. Godzilla has little reason to take a chance with Kong potential doing what Ghidorah did.

Kong who was isolated on Skull Island and who had to raise himself would have no idea why Godzilla is after him or what an Alpha Titan is. He just knows he marches to the beat of his own drum.

All of this is explained in the two Godzilla movies and the kong movie before this one.

No it's not as clear as it could be but it's also not that hard to make this stroy from the MV.
You told me you got it from a comic book. I'm telling you if it's not in the film itself it doesn't matter.
And plenty of animals don't learn from their parents - fish, amphibians, reptiles...
And even those that do? There's a limit. I don't see ancient rivalries being taught quite like that.
And even then? It wasn't shown or implied in film.

You're doing more mental gymnastics here than Wingard did when making this movie. He just ignored the previous two movies and had Godzilla be a villainous antagonist.
I mentioned one thing from the comic and that was Godzilla himself losing to a Kong which I said I'll not mention as you were right it's not in the movie.

The Titans are shown to be highly intelligent, highly intelligent animals teach their young. King is smart enough to talk and Godzilla is just as smart as him.

I'm not going to insult you but I could say your doing just as much mental gymnastics. What did Godzilla do to Kong that was so much worse than Ghidorah or the Mutos?
Highly intelligent's not the same thing as human intelligence - I doubt Godzilla's species have a complex language with words/sounds for things beyond "sleepy/hungry/thirsty/horny". The films never established Titan parental learning. Your making assumptions beyond what seems reasonable on film. It's weird to be this focused on the subject of what their parents taught them when it wasn't implied on screen and most audiences wouldn't think of it or view it as silly.

Ghidorah and the MUTOs were agressors - Ghidorah was destroying the world and ruling the Titans, and the MUTOs were Godzilla parasites. How is Kong like them beyond this vague notion of being an "Alpha."

Added in 1 minute 46 seconds:
DynomikeGojira wrote: Fri May 14, 2021 5:05 am Godzilla and Kong's war is really a case of misunderstanding happened in The Avengers and Batman vs Superman and besides these are animals who saw each other as threat. Pretty simple if you ask me.
What misunderstanding?

And Kong was right to see Godzilla as a threat - Godzilla started it.
I unapologetically, wholeheartedly, and without a doubt hate Godzilla vs Kong.

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Re: Adam Wingard in talks to direct next Monsterverse film - Son of Kong?

Post by miguelnuva »

Vakanai wrote: Fri May 14, 2021 2:17 pm
miguelnuva wrote: Fri May 14, 2021 1:12 am
Vakanai wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 11:41 pm

You told me you got it from a comic book. I'm telling you if it's not in the film itself it doesn't matter.
And plenty of animals don't learn from their parents - fish, amphibians, reptiles...
And even those that do? There's a limit. I don't see ancient rivalries being taught quite like that.
And even then? It wasn't shown or implied in film.

You're doing more mental gymnastics here than Wingard did when making this movie. He just ignored the previous two movies and had Godzilla be a villainous antagonist.
I mentioned one thing from the comic and that was Godzilla himself losing to a Kong which I said I'll not mention as you were right it's not in the movie.

The Titans are shown to be highly intelligent, highly intelligent animals teach their young. King is smart enough to talk and Godzilla is just as smart as him.

I'm not going to insult you but I could say your doing just as much mental gymnastics. What did Godzilla do to Kong that was so much worse than Ghidorah or the Mutos?
Highly intelligent's not the same thing as human intelligence - I doubt Godzilla's species have a complex language with words/sounds for things beyond "sleepy/hungry/thirsty/horny". The films never established Titan parental learning. Your making assumptions beyond what seems reasonable on film. It's weird to be this focused on the subject of what their parents taught them when it wasn't implied on screen and most audiences wouldn't think of it or view it as silly.

Ghidorah and the MUTOs were agressors - Ghidorah was destroying the world and ruling the Titans, and the MUTOs were Godzilla parasites. How is Kong like them beyond this vague notion of being an "Alpha."
You call me out for applying human characters to Godzilla and the Titans and then you do the same thing. The Mutos and Ghidorah were no different in Godzilla eyes then Kong was. We know Kong was no threat to Godzilla, Godzilla doesn't. Godzilla has always gone after what he deems is a threat and has dealt with it. Kong is an Alpha Titan that doesn't listen to Godzilla thus a threat. The last time Godzilla let an Alpha run around that didn't listen was Ghidorah. The movie mentions Kong and Godzilla have an ancient rivalry. He has the same rivarly with the Mutos and Ghidorah.

Godzilla is in the same place he is always in, it looks more antagonistic because Kong doesn't no where he fits in Titan society and Kong is a protagonist so we follow his side of the story. Ghidorah was highly aggressive yes, but if you only look at G14 the Mutos were only wrong in the sense that they would have replaced Humans as the dominate species. The Mutos just wanted to Mate and they only attacked Humans directly to feed or protect their nest.

Skull Island implies Kong's parents would have taught him. They are smarter than Chimps that teach their young and the throne room shows they were smart enough to sit in chairs and make weapons. Kong himself speaks Sign language.

What the audience wouldn't think of or view as silly is a different subject because as I said earlier the audience didn't need a reason for why Godzilla went after Kong, you did and I tried to provide you with a reason from film only sources.

The fact that despite us both here that I can't use supplementary sources to provide more points are ridiculous as well, because with you and I being on a board to talk about Godzilla the supplementary material makes this all even more clear than the 4 movies do on their own.

I think a movie shouldn't rely on comics or books but is not like the MV relies only on these to explain the movies like the ST.
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Re: Adam Wingard in talks to direct next Monsterverse film - Son of Kong?

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miguelnuva wrote: Fri May 14, 2021 4:27 pm
Vakanai wrote: Fri May 14, 2021 2:17 pm
miguelnuva wrote: Fri May 14, 2021 1:12 am

I mentioned one thing from the comic and that was Godzilla himself losing to a Kong which I said I'll not mention as you were right it's not in the movie.

The Titans are shown to be highly intelligent, highly intelligent animals teach their young. King is smart enough to talk and Godzilla is just as smart as him.

I'm not going to insult you but I could say your doing just as much mental gymnastics. What did Godzilla do to Kong that was so much worse than Ghidorah or the Mutos?
Highly intelligent's not the same thing as human intelligence - I doubt Godzilla's species have a complex language with words/sounds for things beyond "sleepy/hungry/thirsty/horny". The films never established Titan parental learning. Your making assumptions beyond what seems reasonable on film. It's weird to be this focused on the subject of what their parents taught them when it wasn't implied on screen and most audiences wouldn't think of it or view it as silly.

Ghidorah and the MUTOs were agressors - Ghidorah was destroying the world and ruling the Titans, and the MUTOs were Godzilla parasites. How is Kong like them beyond this vague notion of being an "Alpha."
You call me out for applying human characters to Godzilla and the Titans and then you do the same thing. The Mutos and Ghidorah were no different in Godzilla eyes then Kong was. We know Kong was no threat to Godzilla, Godzilla doesn't. Godzilla has always gone after what he deems is a threat and has dealt with it. Kong is an Alpha Titan that doesn't listen to Godzilla thus a threat. The last time Godzilla let an Alpha run around that didn't listen was Ghidorah. The movie mentions Kong and Godzilla have an ancient rivalry. He has the same rivarly with the Mutos and Ghidorah.

Godzilla is in the same place he is always in, it looks more antagonistic because Kong doesn't no where he fits in Titan society and Kong is a protagonist so we follow his side of the story. Ghidorah was highly aggressive yes, but if you only look at G14 the Mutos were only wrong in the sense that they would have replaced Humans as the dominate species. The Mutos just wanted to Mate and they only attacked Humans directly to feed or protect their nest.

Skull Island implies Kong's parents would have taught him. They are smarter than Chimps that teach their young and the throne room shows they were smart enough to sit in chairs and make weapons. Kong himself speaks Sign language.

What the audience wouldn't think of or view as silly is a different subject because as I said earlier the audience didn't need a reason for why Godzilla went after Kong, you did and I tried to provide you with a reason from film only sources.

The fact that despite us both here that I can't use supplementary sources to provide more points are ridiculous as well, because with you and I being on a board to talk about Godzilla the supplementary material makes this all even more clear than the 4 movies do on their own.

I think a movie shouldn't rely on comics or books but is not like the MV relies only on these to explain the movies like the ST.
I'm not going to read this - I'm assuming you're making the same arguments yes? I'm tired of this circular debate for a movie that, frankly, was the dumbest Godzilla movie I've ever seen. And yes, I'm including All Monsters Attack and vs Megalon in that. It was a movie that told you to turn off your brain, enforced that rule, and kindly asked you to leave it off whenever you get the urge to think about it again. And this is the film you're trying to give meaning and reason to out of character characterization for, when the director didn't bother to put in that much thought to it. And you know what, that's fine, you're free to think that. But I know that the movie I watched had no care for the plot or characterization and was no deeper than "monster fights are cool right?" So I'm not wasting more time arguing it.
I unapologetically, wholeheartedly, and without a doubt hate Godzilla vs Kong.

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Re: Adam Wingard in talks to direct next Monsterverse film - Son of Kong?

Post by miguelnuva »

Vakanai wrote: Fri May 14, 2021 4:57 pm
miguelnuva wrote: Fri May 14, 2021 4:27 pm
Vakanai wrote: Fri May 14, 2021 2:17 pm

Highly intelligent's not the same thing as human intelligence - I doubt Godzilla's species have a complex language with words/sounds for things beyond "sleepy/hungry/thirsty/horny". The films never established Titan parental learning. Your making assumptions beyond what seems reasonable on film. It's weird to be this focused on the subject of what their parents taught them when it wasn't implied on screen and most audiences wouldn't think of it or view it as silly.

Ghidorah and the MUTOs were agressors - Ghidorah was destroying the world and ruling the Titans, and the MUTOs were Godzilla parasites. How is Kong like them beyond this vague notion of being an "Alpha."
You call me out for applying human characters to Godzilla and the Titans and then you do the same thing. The Mutos and Ghidorah were no different in Godzilla eyes then Kong was. We know Kong was no threat to Godzilla, Godzilla doesn't. Godzilla has always gone after what he deems is a threat and has dealt with it. Kong is an Alpha Titan that doesn't listen to Godzilla thus a threat. The last time Godzilla let an Alpha run around that didn't listen was Ghidorah. The movie mentions Kong and Godzilla have an ancient rivalry. He has the same rivarly with the Mutos and Ghidorah.

Godzilla is in the same place he is always in, it looks more antagonistic because Kong doesn't no where he fits in Titan society and Kong is a protagonist so we follow his side of the story. Ghidorah was highly aggressive yes, but if you only look at G14 the Mutos were only wrong in the sense that they would have replaced Humans as the dominate species. The Mutos just wanted to Mate and they only attacked Humans directly to feed or protect their nest.

Skull Island implies Kong's parents would have taught him. They are smarter than Chimps that teach their young and the throne room shows they were smart enough to sit in chairs and make weapons. Kong himself speaks Sign language.

What the audience wouldn't think of or view as silly is a different subject because as I said earlier the audience didn't need a reason for why Godzilla went after Kong, you did and I tried to provide you with a reason from film only sources.

The fact that despite us both here that I can't use supplementary sources to provide more points are ridiculous as well, because with you and I being on a board to talk about Godzilla the supplementary material makes this all even more clear than the 4 movies do on their own.

I think a movie shouldn't rely on comics or books but is not like the MV relies only on these to explain the movies like the ST.
I'm not going to read this - I'm assuming you're making the same arguments yes? I'm tired of this circular debate for a movie that, frankly, was the dumbest Godzilla movie I've ever seen. And yes, I'm including All Monsters Attack and vs Megalon in that. It was a movie that told you to turn off your brain, enforced that rule, and kindly asked you to leave it off whenever you get the urge to think about it again. And this is the film you're trying to give meaning and reason to out of character characterization for, when the director didn't bother to put in that much thought to it. And you know what, that's fine, you're free to think that. But I know that the movie I watched had no care for the plot or characterization and was no deeper than "monster fights are cool right?" So I'm not wasting more time arguing it.
You don't have to read my argument and you don't have to like Godzilla vs Kong, that is your choice as a fan of the series and this series has several entries with different plots for that reason. All I'm going to say is if someone is taking time to have a discussion and isn't attacking you, saying your not going to read is an interesting thing to say and I bid you adieu.
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Re: Adam Wingard in talks to direct next Monsterverse film - Son of Kong?

Post by DynomikeGojira »

Vakanai wrote: Fri May 14, 2021 2:17 pm
miguelnuva wrote: Fri May 14, 2021 1:12 am
Vakanai wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 11:41 pm

You told me you got it from a comic book. I'm telling you if it's not in the film itself it doesn't matter.
And plenty of animals don't learn from their parents - fish, amphibians, reptiles...
And even those that do? There's a limit. I don't see ancient rivalries being taught quite like that.
And even then? It wasn't shown or implied in film.

You're doing more mental gymnastics here than Wingard did when making this movie. He just ignored the previous two movies and had Godzilla be a villainous antagonist.
I mentioned one thing from the comic and that was Godzilla himself losing to a Kong which I said I'll not mention as you were right it's not in the movie.

The Titans are shown to be highly intelligent, highly intelligent animals teach their young. King is smart enough to talk and Godzilla is just as smart as him.

I'm not going to insult you but I could say your doing just as much mental gymnastics. What did Godzilla do to Kong that was so much worse than Ghidorah or the Mutos?
Highly intelligent's not the same thing as human intelligence - I doubt Godzilla's species have a complex language with words/sounds for things beyond "sleepy/hungry/thirsty/horny". The films never established Titan parental learning. Your making assumptions beyond what seems reasonable on film. It's weird to be this focused on the subject of what their parents taught them when it wasn't implied on screen and most audiences wouldn't think of it or view it as silly.

Ghidorah and the MUTOs were agressors - Ghidorah was destroying the world and ruling the Titans, and the MUTOs were Godzilla parasites. How is Kong like them beyond this vague notion of being an "Alpha."

Added in 1 minute 46 seconds:
DynomikeGojira wrote: Fri May 14, 2021 5:05 am Godzilla and Kong's war is really a case of misunderstanding happened in The Avengers and Batman vs Superman and besides these are animals who saw each other as threat. Pretty simple if you ask me.
What misunderstanding?

And Kong was right to see Godzilla as a threat - Godzilla started it.
Godzilla and Kong are better off as allies which indeed happened Godzilla may have started it but Kong was certainly ready to fight hence Godzilla reasons for targeting this is Godzilla vs Kong after all so yeah simple.

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Re: Adam Wingard in talks to direct next Monsterverse film - Son of Kong?

Post by Vakanai »

miguelnuva wrote: Fri May 14, 2021 5:39 pm
Vakanai wrote: Fri May 14, 2021 4:57 pm
miguelnuva wrote: Fri May 14, 2021 4:27 pm

You call me out for applying human characters to Godzilla and the Titans and then you do the same thing. The Mutos and Ghidorah were no different in Godzilla eyes then Kong was. We know Kong was no threat to Godzilla, Godzilla doesn't. Godzilla has always gone after what he deems is a threat and has dealt with it. Kong is an Alpha Titan that doesn't listen to Godzilla thus a threat. The last time Godzilla let an Alpha run around that didn't listen was Ghidorah. The movie mentions Kong and Godzilla have an ancient rivalry. He has the same rivarly with the Mutos and Ghidorah.

Godzilla is in the same place he is always in, it looks more antagonistic because Kong doesn't no where he fits in Titan society and Kong is a protagonist so we follow his side of the story. Ghidorah was highly aggressive yes, but if you only look at G14 the Mutos were only wrong in the sense that they would have replaced Humans as the dominate species. The Mutos just wanted to Mate and they only attacked Humans directly to feed or protect their nest.

Skull Island implies Kong's parents would have taught him. They are smarter than Chimps that teach their young and the throne room shows they were smart enough to sit in chairs and make weapons. Kong himself speaks Sign language.

What the audience wouldn't think of or view as silly is a different subject because as I said earlier the audience didn't need a reason for why Godzilla went after Kong, you did and I tried to provide you with a reason from film only sources.

The fact that despite us both here that I can't use supplementary sources to provide more points are ridiculous as well, because with you and I being on a board to talk about Godzilla the supplementary material makes this all even more clear than the 4 movies do on their own.

I think a movie shouldn't rely on comics or books but is not like the MV relies only on these to explain the movies like the ST.
I'm not going to read this - I'm assuming you're making the same arguments yes? I'm tired of this circular debate for a movie that, frankly, was the dumbest Godzilla movie I've ever seen. And yes, I'm including All Monsters Attack and vs Megalon in that. It was a movie that told you to turn off your brain, enforced that rule, and kindly asked you to leave it off whenever you get the urge to think about it again. And this is the film you're trying to give meaning and reason to out of character characterization for, when the director didn't bother to put in that much thought to it. And you know what, that's fine, you're free to think that. But I know that the movie I watched had no care for the plot or characterization and was no deeper than "monster fights are cool right?" So I'm not wasting more time arguing it.
You don't have to read my argument and you don't have to like Godzilla vs Kong, that is your choice as a fan of the series and this series has several entries with different plots for that reason. All I'm going to say is if someone is taking time to have a discussion and isn't attacking you, saying your not going to read is an interesting thing to say and I bid you adieu.
I didn't mean anything rude by it, and perhaps I had let my tiredness of the debate color my tone too much. Frankly, I didn't read what you wrote because I don't trust myself not to respond. I've learned that if I'm tired of a debate and don't want to engage in it anymore - I'll still debate and engage in it if I read the arguments! The human urge to get the last word in is impossible for my to resist. So when I just want to stop the debate from dragging on when I want out, I stop reading. It's the only way for me to let it go. However, I'm usually more polite in my word choice explaining it, and here I let my tiredness blunt it, and for that, sorry.

Usually instead of saying "I'm not going to read this" I say the nicer "agree to disagree." For me, it means the same thing, but I admit the latter seems nicer than the former.

Added in 2 minutes 17 seconds:
DynomikeGojira wrote: Fri May 14, 2021 5:40 pm
Vakanai wrote: Fri May 14, 2021 2:17 pm
miguelnuva wrote: Fri May 14, 2021 1:12 am

I mentioned one thing from the comic and that was Godzilla himself losing to a Kong which I said I'll not mention as you were right it's not in the movie.

The Titans are shown to be highly intelligent, highly intelligent animals teach their young. King is smart enough to talk and Godzilla is just as smart as him.

I'm not going to insult you but I could say your doing just as much mental gymnastics. What did Godzilla do to Kong that was so much worse than Ghidorah or the Mutos?
Highly intelligent's not the same thing as human intelligence - I doubt Godzilla's species have a complex language with words/sounds for things beyond "sleepy/hungry/thirsty/horny". The films never established Titan parental learning. Your making assumptions beyond what seems reasonable on film. It's weird to be this focused on the subject of what their parents taught them when it wasn't implied on screen and most audiences wouldn't think of it or view it as silly.

Ghidorah and the MUTOs were agressors - Ghidorah was destroying the world and ruling the Titans, and the MUTOs were Godzilla parasites. How is Kong like them beyond this vague notion of being an "Alpha."

Added in 1 minute 46 seconds:
DynomikeGojira wrote: Fri May 14, 2021 5:05 am Godzilla and Kong's war is really a case of misunderstanding happened in The Avengers and Batman vs Superman and besides these are animals who saw each other as threat. Pretty simple if you ask me.
What misunderstanding?

And Kong was right to see Godzilla as a threat - Godzilla started it.
Godzilla and Kong are better off as allies which indeed happened Godzilla may have started it but Kong was certainly ready to fight hence Godzilla reasons for targeting this is Godzilla vs Kong after all so yeah simple.
Agree to disagree. I mean, we agree it's simple, difference is I think it's simple because the writer/director didn't care to take the prior films into account at all or bother with established characterization. And...there's no argument that'll convince me otherwise, sorry.

(I'd also argue that they're in no way allies at the end of the film - Godzilla maybe possibly respects in a very minuscule amount that Kong has the right to live, and Kong is just too damned tired to fight and realizes he's Godzilla's b i t c h and will die if they fight again, but probably still hates the damn lizard that wanted to kill him for no good reason he could see - he only killed Mechagodzilla because the human girl asked him to. That doesn't make the two allies)
Last edited by Vakanai on Fri May 14, 2021 6:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Adam Wingard in talks to direct next Monsterverse film - Son of Kong?

Post by DynomikeGojira »

Vakanai wrote: Fri May 14, 2021 6:14 pm
miguelnuva wrote: Fri May 14, 2021 5:39 pm
Vakanai wrote: Fri May 14, 2021 4:57 pm

I'm not going to read this - I'm assuming you're making the same arguments yes? I'm tired of this circular debate for a movie that, frankly, was the dumbest Godzilla movie I've ever seen. And yes, I'm including All Monsters Attack and vs Megalon in that. It was a movie that told you to turn off your brain, enforced that rule, and kindly asked you to leave it off whenever you get the urge to think about it again. And this is the film you're trying to give meaning and reason to out of character characterization for, when the director didn't bother to put in that much thought to it. And you know what, that's fine, you're free to think that. But I know that the movie I watched had no care for the plot or characterization and was no deeper than "monster fights are cool right?" So I'm not wasting more time arguing it.
You don't have to read my argument and you don't have to like Godzilla vs Kong, that is your choice as a fan of the series and this series has several entries with different plots for that reason. All I'm going to say is if someone is taking time to have a discussion and isn't attacking you, saying your not going to read is an interesting thing to say and I bid you adieu.
I didn't mean anything rude by it, and perhaps I had let my tiredness of the debate color my tone too much. Frankly, I didn't read what you wrote because I don't trust myself not to respond. I've learned that if I'm tired of a debate and don't want to engage in it anymore - I'll still debate and engage in it if I read the arguments! The human urge to get the last word in is impossible for my to resist. So when I just want to stop the debate from dragging on when I want out, I stop reading. It's the only way for me to let it go. However, I'm usually more polite in my word choice explaining it, and here I let my tiredness blunt it, and for that, sorry.

Usually instead of saying "I'm not going to read this" I say the nicer "agree to disagree." For me, it means the same thing, but I admit the latter seems nicer than the former.

Added in 2 minutes 17 seconds:
DynomikeGojira wrote: Fri May 14, 2021 5:40 pm
Vakanai wrote: Fri May 14, 2021 2:17 pm

Highly intelligent's not the same thing as human intelligence - I doubt Godzilla's species have a complex language with words/sounds for things beyond "sleepy/hungry/thirsty/horny". The films never established Titan parental learning. Your making assumptions beyond what seems reasonable on film. It's weird to be this focused on the subject of what their parents taught them when it wasn't implied on screen and most audiences wouldn't think of it or view it as silly.

Ghidorah and the MUTOs were agressors - Ghidorah was destroying the world and ruling the Titans, and the MUTOs were Godzilla parasites. How is Kong like them beyond this vague notion of being an "Alpha."

Added in 1 minute 46 seconds:


What misunderstanding?

And Kong was right to see Godzilla as a threat - Godzilla started it.
Godzilla and Kong are better off as allies which indeed happened Godzilla may have started it but Kong was certainly ready to fight hence Godzilla reasons for targeting this is Godzilla vs Kong after all so yeah simple.
Agree to disagree. I mean, we agree it's simple, difference is I think it's simple because the writer/director didn't care to take the prior films into account at all or bother with established characterization. And...there's no argument that'll convince me otherwise, sorry.

(I'd also argue that they're in no way allies at the end of the film - Godzilla maybe possibly respects in a very minuscule amount that Kong has the right to live, and Kong is just too damned tired to fight and realizes he's Godzilla's b i t c h and will die if they fight again, but probably still hates the damn lizard that wanted to kill him for no good reason he could see - he only killed Mechagodzilla because the human girl asked him to. That doesn't make the two allies)
Yeah we're gonna have to agree to disagree I can clearly see that you view very strongly about the MV quality of films has downgraded since G14 and K:SI I'm in complete agreement with that so I can understand why you're not a fan of this film, I had a different experience with which rejuvenated my interest in the MV after my massive disappointment with KOTM. I personally believe that Godzilla and Kong were consistent with their previous portrayal and frankly I've been wanting a more antagonistic Godzilla since G14 and I thought they did a great job to make it believable but again just my opinion. As far as them being allies or not I believe they are at least uneasy allies Godzilla didn't attack Kong after Kong defeated MechaG and Kong eventually deemed that Godzilla was not longer a threat hence dropping the axe and Godzilla left, they're not friends but they're not enemies anymore either.

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