miguelnuva wrote: ↑Fri May 14, 2021 5:39 pm
Vakanai wrote: ↑Fri May 14, 2021 4:57 pm
miguelnuva wrote: ↑Fri May 14, 2021 4:27 pm
You call me out for applying human characters to Godzilla and the Titans and then you do the same thing. The Mutos and Ghidorah were no different in Godzilla eyes then Kong was. We know Kong was no threat to Godzilla, Godzilla doesn't. Godzilla has always gone after what he deems is a threat and has dealt with it. Kong is an Alpha Titan that doesn't listen to Godzilla thus a threat. The last time Godzilla let an Alpha run around that didn't listen was Ghidorah. The movie mentions Kong and Godzilla have an ancient rivalry. He has the same rivarly with the Mutos and Ghidorah.
Godzilla is in the same place he is always in, it looks more antagonistic because Kong doesn't no where he fits in Titan society and Kong is a protagonist so we follow his side of the story. Ghidorah was highly aggressive yes, but if you only look at G14 the Mutos were only wrong in the sense that they would have replaced Humans as the dominate species. The Mutos just wanted to Mate and they only attacked Humans directly to feed or protect their nest.
Skull Island implies Kong's parents would have taught him. They are smarter than Chimps that teach their young and the throne room shows they were smart enough to sit in chairs and make weapons. Kong himself speaks Sign language.
What the audience wouldn't think of or view as silly is a different subject because as I said earlier the audience didn't need a reason for why Godzilla went after Kong, you did and I tried to provide you with a reason from film only sources.
The fact that despite us both here that I can't use supplementary sources to provide more points are ridiculous as well, because with you and I being on a board to talk about Godzilla the supplementary material makes this all even more clear than the 4 movies do on their own.
I think a movie shouldn't rely on comics or books but is not like the MV relies only on these to explain the movies like the ST.
I'm not going to read this - I'm assuming you're making the same arguments yes? I'm tired of this circular debate for a movie that, frankly, was the dumbest Godzilla movie I've ever seen. And yes, I'm including All Monsters Attack and vs Megalon in that. It was a movie that told you to turn off your brain, enforced that rule, and kindly asked you to leave it off whenever you get the urge to think about it again. And this is the film you're trying to give meaning and reason to out of character characterization for, when the director didn't bother to put in that much thought to it. And you know what, that's fine, you're free to think that. But I know that the movie I watched had no care for the plot or characterization and was no deeper than "monster fights are cool right?" So I'm not wasting more time arguing it.
You don't have to read my argument and you don't have to like Godzilla vs Kong, that is your choice as a fan of the series and this series has several entries with different plots for that reason. All I'm going to say is if someone is taking time to have a discussion and isn't attacking you, saying your not going to read is an interesting thing to say and I bid you adieu.
I didn't mean anything rude by it, and perhaps I had let my tiredness of the debate color my tone too much. Frankly, I didn't read what you wrote because I don't trust myself not to respond.
I've learned that if I'm tired of a debate and don't want to engage in it anymore - I'll still debate and engage in it if I read the arguments! The human urge to get the last word in is impossible for my to resist. So when I just want to stop the debate from dragging on when I want out, I stop reading. It's the only way for me to let it go. However, I'm usually more polite in my word choice explaining it, and here I let my tiredness blunt it, and for that, sorry.
Usually instead of saying "I'm not going to read this" I say the nicer "agree to disagree." For me, it means the same thing, but I admit the latter seems nicer than the former.
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DynomikeGojira wrote: ↑Fri May 14, 2021 5:40 pm
Vakanai wrote: ↑Fri May 14, 2021 2:17 pm
miguelnuva wrote: ↑Fri May 14, 2021 1:12 am
I mentioned one thing from the comic and that was Godzilla himself losing to a Kong which I said I'll not mention as you were right it's not in the movie.
The Titans are shown to be highly intelligent, highly intelligent animals teach their young. King is smart enough to talk and Godzilla is just as smart as him.
I'm not going to insult you but I could say your doing just as much mental gymnastics. What did Godzilla do to Kong that was so much worse than Ghidorah or the Mutos?
Highly intelligent's not the same thing as human intelligence - I doubt Godzilla's species have a complex language with words/sounds for things beyond "sleepy/hungry/thirsty/horny". The films never established Titan parental learning. Your making assumptions beyond what seems reasonable on film. It's weird to be this focused on the subject of what their parents taught them when it wasn't implied on screen and most audiences wouldn't think of it or view it as silly.
Ghidorah and the MUTOs were agressors - Ghidorah was destroying the world and ruling the Titans, and the MUTOs were Godzilla parasites. How is Kong like them beyond this vague notion of being an "Alpha."
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DynomikeGojira wrote: ↑Fri May 14, 2021 5:05 am
Godzilla and Kong's war is really a case of misunderstanding happened in The Avengers and Batman vs Superman and besides these are animals who saw each other as threat. Pretty simple if you ask me.
And Kong was right to see Godzilla as a threat - Godzilla started it.
Godzilla and Kong are better off as allies which indeed happened Godzilla may have started it but Kong was certainly ready to fight hence Godzilla reasons for targeting this is Godzilla vs Kong after all so yeah simple.
Agree to disagree. I mean, we agree it's simple, difference is I think it's simple because the writer/director didn't care to take the prior films into account at all or bother with established characterization. And...there's no argument that'll convince me otherwise, sorry.
(I'd also argue that they're in no way allies at the end of the film - Godzilla maybe
possibly respects in a very minuscule amount that Kong has the right to live, and Kong is just too damned tired to fight and realizes he's Godzilla's b i t c h and will die if they fight again, but probably still hates the damn lizard that wanted to kill him for no good reason he could see - he only killed Mechagodzilla because the human girl asked him to. That doesn't make the two allies)
I unapologetically, wholeheartedly, and without a doubt hate Godzilla vs Kong.