Say something negative about the Milennium Series

[eabaker]

Godzilla: Final Wars set the franchise back 30 years.

- A bunch of weird stylistic influences from genre films of the time

I'm confused. It set the movie back to 1974 by leaning on the stylistic tropes of 2004?

What I meant was, like the 70s films, Final Wars ALSO pulled stylistic influences from around the time.

In the 70s, Godzilla was trying to appeal to kids, have bloody fights, incorporate James Bond-esque 'spy' elements into films like Mechag74, etc

In 04, it was leaning on X-Men, Matrix, Independence Day type influences.

Gotcha! Okay, that makes sense!

[Chrispy_G]

I think G2K and GMK are the only really distinct new entries in the Millennium Era, unless you are looking to count G98.

G2K is a clear new take, a fresh new Godzilla design, a fresh new look/style for the breath. A sci-fi style that simultaneously felt like a throwback to early Showa-type films as well as feeling quite inspired by and in line with modern blockbusters at the time like Independence Day.

Godzilla vs Megaguirus just feels like kind of a riff off of the previous film. The design and execution of Godzilla are mostly the same, just 'now with a dedicated prologue to establish this new world!'(which is the one thing I appreciate about GXM)....but outside of that, it is just a weird buckwild black hole plot that just feels like a total U-Turn from the RATHER grounded and somewhat reality-based nature of G2K.

GMK - Again, super fresh take. A very clear direct sequel to the original film and it doesn't play that ambiguously, a HOT new Godzilla design and portrayal, and leans strong into a more magical, fantasy mythos and pulls it off. This is new.

Godzilla Against MechaGodzilla is, frankly just a polished re-version of Megaguirus. The Godzilla is the same but just tweaked....like MOST of the plot and character mechanics. Prologue of heroine losing her team, a reboot continuity that this time includes other Showa films, a new super cannon, this time a freeze cannon-armed MechaGodzilla instead of a black hole cannon, that will be the end of Godzilla. The heroine is more haunted by her past mistakes, the scientist fawning over her is an old widower with a daughter instead of a young single guy.....the entire thing just feels like they took Megaguirus as if it were a "first draft" and then they just did another pass on it into something a bit better.

Tokyo SOS is just "Godzilla Against MechaGodzilla meets Mothra vs Godzilla" and Final Wars is just a ridiculous hodgepodge.

[HedorahIsBestGirl]

Godzilla vs Megaguirus just feels like kind of a riff off of the previous film. The design and execution of Godzilla are mostly the same, just 'now with a dedicated prologue to establish this new world!'(which is the one thing I appreciate about GXM)....but outside of that, it is just a weird buckwild black hole plot that just feels like a total U-Turn from the RATHER grounded and somewhat reality-based nature of G2K.

These two statements contradict each other. Aside from an identical Godzilla, I see almost no commonality between the two films.

Godzilla Against MechaGodzilla is, frankly just a polished re-version of Megaguirus. The Godzilla is the same but just tweaked....like MOST of the plot and character mechanics. Prologue of heroine losing her team, a reboot continuity that this time includes other Showa films, a new super cannon, this time a freeze cannon-armed MechaGodzilla instead of a black hole cannon, that will be the end of Godzilla. The heroine is more haunted by her past mistakes, the scientist fawning over her is an old widower with a daughter instead of a young single guy.....the entire thing just feels like they took Megaguirus as if it were a "first draft" and then they just did another pass on it into something a bit better.

Basically, although I think the end result was markedly worse. I'll take the strangeness of Megaguirus over the blandness of GXMG any day.

[Gigantis]

As someone who considers it one of my favorite designs, i will agree and say that just rehashing the MireGoji suit and just painting it a brighter green was a really cheap move. You have a film , where in it's continuity, the original 54 Godzilla survived and constantly terrorizes everyone in the present day... why not just make a new suit that's an updated version of the ShodaiGoji? Imagine how awesome it would be to see the original Big-G back and actually fighting another monster! (GMK doesn't count because that's just the souls of WW2 forming a new body that just looks like Godzilla)

[Chrispy_G]

Godzilla vs Megaguirus just feels like kind of a riff off of the previous film. The design and execution of Godzilla are mostly the same, just 'now with a dedicated prologue to establish this new world!'(which is the one thing I appreciate about GXM)....but outside of that, it is just a weird buckwild black hole plot that just feels like a total U-Turn from the RATHER grounded and somewhat reality-based nature of G2K.

These two statements contradict each other. Aside from an identical Godzilla, I see almost no commonality between the two films
.

That's what I meant, that the Godzilla design/portrayal is mostly just a repeat of G2K. You are taking G2K Godzilla and dropping him into a radically different film. I didn't make my point clear enough there.

[Voyager]

I’ll say something bad about each film.

G2K: I don’t know... the CGI is bad? I don’t really have an opinion on this film.
GxM: The greener Godzilla hurts my eyes. Kiriko Tsujimori, in my eyes, will always be inferior to Akane Yashiro.
GMK: I don’t think there’s anything inherently wrong with this movie.
GxMG: It’s pretty anime, for better or for worse. It’s also pretty bland, but I still love this movie.
GMMG: Insert “it’s just a rehash but with Mothra” argument here.
GFW: It is incredibly bad, and the filters they play over the scenes hurt my eyes to the point where I have to look away every minute or so.

[Spuro]

G2K: The Japanese version's sound design and orchestral score is underwhelming, leaving the American version the superior entry in spite of the bad dubbing.
GxM: Megaguirus, while a cool kaiju and one of my all time favorites, is poorly executed in flight. The Dimension Tide/superweapon plot is also pretty poorly handled.
GMK: I want my Varan damnit.
GxMG: I would have liked more time spent on the ethics of using Kiryu, and the ramifications of the machine's DNA computer. Also, these acronyms are getting confusing.
Tokyo SOS: It's... yeah, not much new to offer. I wish they had done more with Mothra being angry at humanity for using Godzilla's bones. And bring back Akane damnit!
Final Wars: The whole movie is a negative, lol. I might dislike certain other movies more, but looking at things as objectively as I can... yeah this is the worst in the series.

[daikaijusaurus]

My biggest complaint about the millennium movies are mainly on GMK and Tokyo SOS.

GMK: While the movie itself I really like, it's biggest sin is the inclusion of Mothra and Ghidorah instead of Varan and Anguiras. Mothra and Ghidorah really stick out to me like a sore thumb, they are really out of place and character. And this is my least favorite Ghidorah design also. Looked like a pathetic chicken instead of the powerful space monster I've grown to love. On the positive side, I do like the design of Mothra. They should've used this design in Tokyo SOS instead.

Tokyo SOS: While the movie has pretty good FX and monster battles, there is really nothing new here which makes most of the movie a complete bore for me. The movie feels like a very poor remake of Mothra Vs Godzilla with Mechagodzilla thrown in. The characters are also boring and uninteresting. This is my least favorite of the millennium movies.

I also didn't like the idea of each movie in the millennium series being a standalone film. They should've began with Godzilla 2000 and continued the story from there. Would've been a lot more interesting to follow rather than each movie be a reboot and introduce Godzilla each time. Really unnecessary.

I also have a lot of positive things to say about the millennium series, but I guess that's for another forum topic

[Terasawa]

I also have a lot of positive things to say about the millennium series, but I guess that's for another forum topic

I don't know if that's already a topic here, but if it isn't you should make it. I'd like some good reasons to like some of these movies (GMK being the only one I really enjoy).

[Voyager]

^ I’d be up for that topic. I need to express my love for GxMG.

[eabaker]

I also have a lot of positive things to say about the millennium series, but I guess that's for another forum topic

I don't know if that's already a topic here, but if it isn't you should make it. I'd like some good reasons to like some of these movies (GMK being the only one I really enjoy).

My most recent re-watch of the Kiryu flicks brought me a new appreciation for them. This was in prep for a podcast, and my intent was to be as positive about them as I could, so I was definitely working at liking them, but it did somewhat pay off.

For instance, I'd never before noticed the moment in GxMG that visually links Dr. Yuhara and Sara to Don Quixote and Sancho Panza. Thought that was a neat little touch!

[Terasawa]

For instance, I'd never before noticed the moment in GxMG that visually links Dr. Yuhara and Sara to Don Quixote and Sancho Panza. Thought that was a neat little touch!

I think I saw your FB post about that, or a post here (can't recall). But yeah, that's definitely a nice visual cue I'd never noticed before. I could stand to re-watch both Kiryu films and GFW but... I don't really want to. They've never left much of an impression before, at least not a good one, so I'm hesitant to devote any of my time to them.

[eabaker]

For instance, I'd never before noticed the moment in GxMG that visually links Dr. Yuhara and Sara to Don Quixote and Sancho Panza. Thought that was a neat little touch!

I think I saw your FB post about that, or a post here (can't recall). But yeah, that's definitely a nice visual cue I'd never noticed before. I could stand to re-watch both Kiryu films and GFW but... I don't really want to. They've never left much of an impression before, at least not a good one, so I'm hesitant to devote any of my time to them.

Honestly, I don't remember ever having the desire to re-watch them. I do it when I'm showing the full series to someone, or when they come up in conversation and I realize my memory of them has faded to the point that I can't really talk about them in an informed way; most recently, it was in preparation for a podcast (which is why I took about 8 pages of notes on Tokyo SOS).

[ClandestineCanine9]

What was the bad decision: not making GXM a sequel to G2K, reusing the previous film's Godzilla costume (despite not being a sequel), or both?

yes.

[Terasawa]

What was the bad decision: not making GXM a sequel to G2K, reusing the previous film's Godzilla costume (despite not being a sequel), or both?

yes.

I guess then I still don't understand why those decisions were "bad".

[ClandestineCanine9]

I think that using the same design while ret-conning the movie that came out not a year prior is confusing for anyone who doesn't have an extensive knowledge of the timelines. that, and the millennium series thing of every movie being standalone is something that bothers me. I'd like to have some continuity.

[eabaker]

I think that using the same design while ret-conning the movie that came out not a year prior is confusing for anyone who doesn't have an extensive knowledge of the timelines. that, and the millennium series thing of every movie being standalone is something that bothers me. I'd like to have some continuity.

Sorry to be pedantic, but it didn't ret-con the prior movie; it ignored it. Ret-conning it would be acknowledging it while introducing elements that explicitly re-define aspects of its narrative.

And, you know, coming off a series of 7 movies that maintained a continuity, I just don't understand why some fans consider it such a problem that a different approach was taken that appeals to a different subset of the fandom. That would be like declaring that the presence of continuity in the Heisei series was a "bad" decision just because some fans prefer stand-alones.

[Chrispy_G]

I would have liked to see Toho take a cue from the Gamera films and try to go for their A-tier "definitive trilogy" of Godzilla films, opting to give a little more time and money for each entry. Instead of 6 movies annually, what if we had 3 movies bi-annually?

Take some time to vet scripts and directors WITHOUT giving them entire FILMS to 'test their vision'. Figure out what the new thing would be, maybe a trilogy of films like Godzilla 2000 in that realm, maybe Kaneko gets a trilogy to explore his guardian monsters and "Godzilla as a demon" concept. Maybe we get a trilogy of Kiryu films?

The notion of 3 films with roughly double the budget and twice the time/effort put into them COULD have given us something truly spectacular.

2000
2002
2004

[Gigantis]

I would have liked to see Toho take a cue from the Gamera films and try to go for their A-tier "definitive trilogy" of Godzilla films.

Well they did try that



We all know how that turned out.

And really, bi-anual films don't mean much of anything depending on who would be working on said trilogy (we have plenty of that in modern films that turned out to be garbage) and i wouldn't be surprised if they stepped away from it on purpose to make sure they didn't look like they were ripping Gamera off.

[eabaker]

I would have liked to see Toho take a cue from the Gamera films and try to go for their A-tier "definitive trilogy" of Godzilla films, opting to give a little more time and money for each entry. Instead of 6 movies annually, what if we had 3 movies bi-annually?

Take some time to vet scripts and directors WITHOUT giving them entire FILMS to 'test their vision'. Figure out what the new thing would be, maybe a trilogy of films like Godzilla 2000 in that realm, maybe Kaneko gets a trilogy to explore his guardian monsters and "Godzilla as a demon" concept. Maybe we get a trilogy of Kiryu films?

The notion of 3 films with roughly double the budget and twice the time/effort put into them COULD have given us something truly spectacular.

2000
2002
2004

Walking out of the theater after my first viewing of Godzilla 2000, the first thought I had was, "I wish the dynamic among human characters in this movie had been the focal point of a trilogy."