Godzilla X Varan, Baragon and Anguirus

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Which would you prefer?

Poll ended at Thu Jun 19, 2014 11:54 am

Godzilla X Varan, Baragon and Anguirus
24
75%
Godzilla, Mothra and King Ghidorah: Giant Monsters All-Out Attack
8
25%
 
Total votes: 32

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Gerdzerl
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Re: Godzilla X Varan, Baragon and Anguirus

Post by Gerdzerl »

MM Raids Again wrote:
Toho doesn't have set roles and origins for their monsters. They still has to give the OK but the best way I've seen it put is they're treated as actors that can work in a multitude of stories.
The irony of this statement is fans get up in arms if Godzilla is a mutated lizard and not a dinosaur, but are willing to accept wonky origins like Anguirus and Baragon being supernatural guardians.
I honestly never understood what the problem with the TriStar Godzilla being a lizard was. It's not like the Toho version ever really had much more in common with dinosaurs than lizards, his anatomy is pretty generic and nondescript. Are lizards somehow just not "cool" or "badass" or "majestic" enough or something? I don't get it. :eh:
Last edited by Gerdzerl on Sat Aug 26, 2017 2:49 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Godzilla X Varan, Baragon and Anguirus

Post by miguelnuva »

Gerdzerl wrote:
MM Raids Again wrote:
Toho doesn't have set roles and origins for their monsters. They still has to give the OK but the best way I've seen it put is they're treated as actors that can work in a multitude of stories.
The irony of this statement is fans get up in arms if Godzilla is a mutated lizard and not a dinosaur, but are willing to accept wonky origins like Anguirus and Baragon being supernatural guardians.
I honestly never understood what the problem with the TriStar Godzilla being a lizard was. It's not like the Toho version ever really had much more in common with dinosaurs than lizards, his anatomy is pretty generic and nondescript. Are lizards somehow just not "cool" or "badass" or "majestic" enough or something? I don't get it. :eh:
It wasn't as much of it being a lizard as it was the design was different in addition to the powers and attitude being gone as well.
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Re: Godzilla X Varan, Baragon and Anguirus

Post by SonOfGorgo »

TBH, I think it would've been a bit redundant, if not pointless, to give them new fancy names (Varadaki, Baragora and Angira), only to rename them back to their old names (Varan, Baragon and Anguirus).
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Re: Godzilla X Varan, Baragon and Anguirus

Post by Gerdzerl »

miguelnuva wrote:
Gerdzerl wrote:
MM Raids Again wrote:
The irony of this statement is fans get up in arms if Godzilla is a mutated lizard and not a dinosaur, but are willing to accept wonky origins like Anguirus and Baragon being supernatural guardians.
I honestly never understood what the problem with the TriStar Godzilla being a lizard was. It's not like the Toho version ever really had much more in common with dinosaurs than lizards, his anatomy is pretty generic and nondescript. Are lizards somehow just not "cool" or "badass" or "majestic" enough or something? I don't get it. :eh:
It wasn't as much of it being a lizard as it was the design was different in addition to the powers and attitude being gone as well.
Fair enough, but I always see the fact the TriStar Godzilla is an iguana being used in a derogatory sense, as if being an iguana is somehow a bad thing. People clearly dislike it for whatever reason.

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Re: Godzilla X Varan, Baragon and Anguirus

Post by Mac Daddy MM »

miguelnuva wrote:
Gerdzerl wrote:
MM Raids Again wrote:
The irony of this statement is fans get up in arms if Godzilla is a mutated lizard and not a dinosaur, but are willing to accept wonky origins like Anguirus and Baragon being supernatural guardians.
I honestly never understood what the problem with the TriStar Godzilla being a lizard was. It's not like the Toho version ever really had much more in common with dinosaurs than lizards, his anatomy is pretty generic and nondescript. Are lizards somehow just not "cool" or "badass" or "majestic" enough or something? I don't get it. :eh:
It wasn't as much of it being a lizard as it was the design was different in addition to the powers and attitude being gone as well.
Are you under the impression that a GMK Anguirus would act like his Showa counterpart? Or that GMK Baragon acts like his Showa counterpart?


Quote of the Year:
plasmabeam wrote: Tue Dec 05, 2023 3:03 am Hear me out on this. What if Godzilla is actually Suko’s father? In GvK when Godzilla defeated Kong and they were roaring at each other, what if Godzilla inseminated Kong at that moment and that’s why they were screaming?

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Re: Godzilla X Varan, Baragon and Anguirus

Post by GalacticPetey »

After reading the proposed concept and plot, I really wish we got that movie. My only gripe is that based on the given info, the Gotengo sorta comes out of nowhere. If it were to be given proper build up and mention throughout the movie (which very well might have been the case) then I would be super on board.

As for making Anguirus Godzilla's adversary, do I need to remind people that Anguirus started off as Godzilla's very first monster enemy? It's not that far fetched. Rodan and Mothra go back and forth on being allies and adversaries with Godzilla, why can't Anguirus?
Last edited by GalacticPetey on Sat Aug 26, 2017 9:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
I can't believe that Godzilla was the only surviving member of its species, but if we continue conducting nuclear tests, it's possible that another Godzilla might appear somewhere in the world again.

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Re: Godzilla X Varan, Baragon and Anguirus

Post by miguelnuva »

MM Raids Again wrote:
miguelnuva wrote:
Gerdzerl wrote:
I honestly never understood what the problem with the TriStar Godzilla being a lizard was. It's not like the Toho version ever really had much more in common with dinosaurs than lizards, his anatomy is pretty generic and nondescript. Are lizards somehow just not "cool" or "badass" or "majestic" enough or something? I don't get it. :eh:
It wasn't as much of it being a lizard as it was the design was different in addition to the powers and attitude being gone as well.
Are you under the impression that a GMK Anguirus would act like his Showa counterpart? Or that GMK Baragon acts like his Showa counterpart?
Well Baragon for the most part did act like his showa counterpart in GMK, Angurius has a little wiggle room due to his GRA role.
Last edited by miguelnuva on Sat Aug 26, 2017 3:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Godzilla X Varan, Baragon and Anguirus

Post by GigaBowserG »

GalacticPetey wrote:After reading the proposed concept and plot, I really wish we got that movie. My only gripe is that based on the given info, the Gotengo sorta comes out of nowhere. If it were to be given proper build up and mention throughout the movie (which very well might have been the case) then I would be super on board.
It was going to get some more coverage when 2001 Gotengo's entry is made, but while there isn't much talk of Gotengo in sources I've seen, I don't doubt it would've been mentioned early on. Since 1954, the SDF have been leading a lie, telling the public that they stopped Godzilla back then when it was Serizawa. The entire movie basically leads up to their lie coming back to bite them in the form of Godzilla, with Yuri eventually exposing this lie, though I think she was guilty of keeping it quiet when she learned of it, too.
However, while they've been blanketing the truth, they worked on the Gotengo just in case something like Godzilla popped up again, and are able to redeem themselves when the Gotengo (and not the three guardians) is able to stop him.
As for making Anguirus Godzilla's adversary, do I need to remind people that Anguirus started off as Godzilla's very first monster enemy? It's not that far fetched. Rodan and Mothra go back and forth on being allies and adversaries with Godzilla, why can't Anguirus?
With the few mentions of Anguirus there were, Kaneko definitely wanted to have Godzilla and Anguirus brawl again like they did back in 1955. Raids Again was pretty influential for Anguirus's addition to the cast.
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Re: Godzilla X Varan, Baragon and Anguirus

Post by Mac Daddy MM »

miguelnuva wrote:
MM Raids Again wrote:
miguelnuva wrote:
It wasn't as much of it being a lizard as it was the design was different in addition to the powers and attitude being gone as well.
Are you under the impression that a GMK Anguirus would act like his Showa counterpart? Or that GMK Baragon acts like his Showa counterpart?
Well.Baragon for the most part dod act like his showa counterpart in GMK, Angurius has a little wiggle room die to his GRA role.
Umm... Have you even seen any of the Showa films?


Quote of the Year:
plasmabeam wrote: Tue Dec 05, 2023 3:03 am Hear me out on this. What if Godzilla is actually Suko’s father? In GvK when Godzilla defeated Kong and they were roaring at each other, what if Godzilla inseminated Kong at that moment and that’s why they were screaming?

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Re: Godzilla X Varan, Baragon and Anguirus

Post by miguelnuva »

MM Raids Again wrote:
miguelnuva wrote:
MM Raids Again wrote:
Are you under the impression that a GMK Anguirus would act like his Showa counterpart? Or that GMK Baragon acts like his Showa counterpart?
Well Baragon for the most part did act like his showa counterpart in GMK, Angurius has a little wiggle room due to his GRA role.
Umm... Have you even seen any of the Showa films?
First off let me apologize for that horrible english.

As for Baragon I saw Frankenstein and Baragon as I said acted mostly the same in both roles.

Angurius while become Godzilla's side kick for the majority of the showa series did start out as his enemy in GRA so I wouldn't have had a problem with him going back to this role considering it was a new Angurius and not the showa one turning Heel on Godzilla.
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Re: Godzilla X Varan, Baragon and Anguirus

Post by Mac Daddy MM »

As for Baragon I saw Frankenstein and Baragon as I said acted mostly the same in both roles.
... Uhm... No. No he did not. He was a predatory, man-eater in FCTW.
Angurius while become Godzilla's side kick for the majority of the showa series did start out as his enemy in GRA so I wouldn't have had a problem with him going back to this role considering it was a new Angurius and not the showa one turning Heel on Godzilla.
That is still like accepting a movie in which Spider-man fights The Punisher for the sole purpose The Punisher started off as one of Spider-man's rogues. Having them scuffle for a few is one thing. Blindly accepting Anguirus as one of Godzilla's primary antagonists in a movie is completely different when there are MULTIPLE kaiju that fit that bill better.


Quote of the Year:
plasmabeam wrote: Tue Dec 05, 2023 3:03 am Hear me out on this. What if Godzilla is actually Suko’s father? In GvK when Godzilla defeated Kong and they were roaring at each other, what if Godzilla inseminated Kong at that moment and that’s why they were screaming?

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Re: Godzilla X Varan, Baragon and Anguirus

Post by GalacticPetey »

Again, Mothra and Rodan have also gone back and forth on being allies or enemies, why can't Anguirus? It's a different continuity.
I can't believe that Godzilla was the only surviving member of its species, but if we continue conducting nuclear tests, it's possible that another Godzilla might appear somewhere in the world again.

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Re: Godzilla X Varan, Baragon and Anguirus

Post by Gerdzerl »

GalacticPetey wrote:Again, Mothra and Rodan have also gone back and forth on being allies or enemies, why can't Anguirus? It's a different continuity.
Indeed. Kaiju fit the needs of the story, not the other way around. They're less like consistently defined characters and more like "actors" in that regard.

There's no inherent requirement for Anguirus to be Godzilla's ally. He's whatever the writer wants him to be.
Last edited by Gerdzerl on Sat Aug 26, 2017 5:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Godzilla X Varan, Baragon and Anguirus

Post by tbeasley »

Holding the Showa era against GMK is beside the point considering the Millennium era was meant to be a series of What If/Elseworlds type stories within the Toho mythos, with GMK largely considered the most successful of the bunch (and the most successful contemporary G film before Shin)... if you have a problem with that your whole argument boils down to "Trukk not Munky".

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Re: Godzilla X Varan, Baragon and Anguirus

Post by Mac Daddy MM »

tbeasley wrote:Holding the Showa era against GMK is beside the point considering the Millennium era was meant to be a series of What If/Elseworlds type stories within the Toho mythos, with GMK largely considered the most successful of the bunch (and the most successful contemporary G film before Shin)... if you have a problem with that your whole argument boils down to "Trukk not Munky".
You miss the entire point of my argument. Fans get all up in arms over simple origin changes for Godzilla. See Shin Godzilla, Godzilla 2014 and even G'98. But Anguirus, Baragon and Varan being supernatural guardians!? A-Okay! Why bother giving these three (and Ghidorah in the final film) supernatural guardian roles when we already have several kaiju that fit that bill easier beyond Mothra (King Caesar, Manda and even Megalon). While Megalon would seem HORRIBLY out of place given the serious story, Manda and King Caesar would have made massive sense given not just their designs, but their roots in mythology (King Caesar as the guardian of Okinawa and Manda the guardian of Mu).

I also question why any fan that grew up with this franchise wants to see Godzilla fight Anguirus as a primary adversary in this day and age. Call it a "BUT MUH SHOWA!" moment for me, but I just find that idea stupid.
Last edited by Mac Daddy MM on Mon Aug 28, 2017 3:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.


Quote of the Year:
plasmabeam wrote: Tue Dec 05, 2023 3:03 am Hear me out on this. What if Godzilla is actually Suko’s father? In GvK when Godzilla defeated Kong and they were roaring at each other, what if Godzilla inseminated Kong at that moment and that’s why they were screaming?

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Re: Godzilla X Varan, Baragon and Anguirus

Post by SonOfGorgo »

MM Raids Again wrote:You miss the entire point of my argument. Fans get all up in arms over simple origin changes for Godzilla. See Shin Godzilla, Godzilla 2014 and even G'98. But Anguirus, Baragon and Varan being supernatural guardians!? A-Okay! Why bother giving these three (and Ghidorah in the final film) supernatural guardian roles when we already have several kaiju that fit that bill easier beyond Mothra (King Caesar, Manda and even Megalon). While Megalon would seem HORRIBLY out of place given the serious story, Manda and King Caesar would have made massive sense given not just their designs, but their roots in mythology (King Caesar as the guardian of Okinawa and Manda the guardian of Mu).

I also question why any fan that grew up with this franchise wants to see Godzilla fight Anguirus as a primary adversary in this day and age. Call it a "BUT MUH SHOWA!" moment for me, but I just find that idea stupid.
How about Manda and Caesar in Final Wars, eh?
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Re: Godzilla X Varan, Baragon and Anguirus

Post by Mac Daddy MM »

SonOfGorgo wrote:
MM Raids Again wrote:You miss the entire point of my argument. Fans get all up in arms over simple origin changes for Godzilla. See Shin Godzilla, Godzilla 2014 and even G'98. But Anguirus, Baragon and Varan being supernatural guardians!? A-Okay! Why bother giving these three (and Ghidorah in the final film) supernatural guardian roles when we already have several kaiju that fit that bill easier beyond Mothra (King Caesar, Manda and even Megalon). While Megalon would seem HORRIBLY out of place given the serious story, Manda and King Caesar would have made massive sense given not just their designs, but their roots in mythology (King Caesar as the guardian of Okinawa and Manda the guardian of Mu).

I also question why any fan that grew up with this franchise wants to see Godzilla fight Anguirus as a primary adversary in this day and age. Call it a "BUT MUH SHOWA!" moment for me, but I just find that idea stupid.
How about Manda and Caesar in Final Wars, eh?
FW had shitty treatment for just about every monster. Not sure what you're saying/asking.


Quote of the Year:
plasmabeam wrote: Tue Dec 05, 2023 3:03 am Hear me out on this. What if Godzilla is actually Suko’s father? In GvK when Godzilla defeated Kong and they were roaring at each other, what if Godzilla inseminated Kong at that moment and that’s why they were screaming?

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Re: Godzilla X Varan, Baragon and Anguirus

Post by SonOfGorgo »

MM Raids Again wrote:You miss the entire point of my argument. Fans get all up in arms over simple origin changes for Godzilla. See Shin Godzilla, Godzilla 2014 and even G'98. But Anguirus, Baragon and Varan being supernatural guardians!? A-Okay! Why bother giving these three (and Ghidorah in the final film) supernatural guardian roles when we already have several kaiju that fit that bill easier beyond Mothra (King Caesar, Manda and even Megalon). While Megalon would seem HORRIBLY out of place given the serious story, Manda and King Caesar would have made massive sense given not just their designs, but their roots in mythology (King Caesar as the guardian of Okinawa and Manda the guardian of Mu).

I also question why any fan that grew up with this franchise wants to see Godzilla fight Anguirus as a primary adversary in this day and age. Call it a "BUT MUH SHOWA!" moment for me, but I just find that idea stupid.

FW had shitty treatment for just about every monster. Not sure what you're saying/asking.
Shusuke Kaneko (Who came up with this concept) also had Gamera be created Atlantis and I don't see you having a problem with that. Heck, even Godzilla himself was gonna have a similar treatment by Terry Rossio and Ted Elliott in '96 yet I don't have a problem with that either.
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Re: Godzilla X Varan, Baragon and Anguirus

Post by Mac Daddy MM »

SonOfGorgo wrote:
MM Raids Again wrote:You miss the entire point of my argument. Fans get all up in arms over simple origin changes for Godzilla. See Shin Godzilla, Godzilla 2014 and even G'98. But Anguirus, Baragon and Varan being supernatural guardians!? A-Okay! Why bother giving these three (and Ghidorah in the final film) supernatural guardian roles when we already have several kaiju that fit that bill easier beyond Mothra (King Caesar, Manda and even Megalon). While Megalon would seem HORRIBLY out of place given the serious story, Manda and King Caesar would have made massive sense given not just their designs, but their roots in mythology (King Caesar as the guardian of Okinawa and Manda the guardian of Mu).

I also question why any fan that grew up with this franchise wants to see Godzilla fight Anguirus as a primary adversary in this day and age. Call it a "BUT MUH SHOWA!" moment for me, but I just find that idea stupid.

FW had shitty treatment for just about every monster. Not sure what you're saying/asking.
Shusuke Kaneko (Who came up with this concept) also had Gamera be created Atlantis and I don't see you having a problem with that. Heck, even Godzilla himself was gonna have a similar treatment by Terry Rossio and Ted Elliott in '96 yet I don't have a problem with that either.
I've called people out for loving Kaneko's changing of origins and then bitching whenever Toho/whoever makes an adjustment to Godzilla's more than once. I generally blame it on said people not being too aware/familiar with the Showa era of Gamera. I know we have a thread about Shin representing the hypocrisy of the fandom, but really, GMK is easily the worst offender when it comes to that and how drastically it changes every monster in one way or another.

And you're acting like I don't like GMK. I actually do. I just hate the idea of Anguirus being one of the supernatural guardians. It ranks right up there with King Ghidorah being a bad casting call for the film as far as I'm concerned. It just comes off everyone wanted Anguirus in the film because we hadn't seen him in nearly 30 years at that point.

The fans: "Who cares if his character is butchered!? He's back!"
Last edited by Mac Daddy MM on Tue Aug 29, 2017 12:37 am, edited 1 time in total.


Quote of the Year:
plasmabeam wrote: Tue Dec 05, 2023 3:03 am Hear me out on this. What if Godzilla is actually Suko’s father? In GvK when Godzilla defeated Kong and they were roaring at each other, what if Godzilla inseminated Kong at that moment and that’s why they were screaming?

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Re: Godzilla X Varan, Baragon and Anguirus

Post by SonOfGorgo »

MM Raids Again wrote:I've called people out for loving Kaneko's changing of origins and then bitching whenever Toho/whoever makes an adjustment to Godzilla's more than once.
Not every fan is like that, I'm sure.
MM Raids Again wrote:I generally blame it on said people not being too aware/familiar with the Showa era of Gamera. I know we have a thread about Shin representing the hypocrisy of the fandom, but really, GMK is easily the worst offender when it comes to that and how drastically it changes every monster in one way or another.

And you're acting like I don't like GMK. I actually do. I just hate the idea of Anguirus being one of the supernatural guardians. It ranks right up there with King Ghidorah being a bad casting call for the film as far as I'm concerned. It just comes off everyone wanted Anguirus in the film because we hadn't seen him in nearly 30 years at that point.

The fans: "Who cares if his character is butchered!? He's back!"
Yet you don't have a problem with Baragon? or Varan?
Besides, at least he would look like Anguirus anyway.
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