Was Final Wars originally planned to be a darker movie?

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Terasawa
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Re: Was Final Wars originally planned to be a darker movie?

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DirektorSplennic wrote: Tue Nov 16, 2021 5:49 pm Is there anything else you can recall from when the Millennium or even Heisei movies were coming out that were supposed leaks, whether true or not?
In 1995, G-Fan reported via Japanese sources that Mothra would appear in Godzilla vs Destoroyah. I don't think that was ever actually considered by the filmmakers, however, and it might have been the result of confusing Godzilla vs Destoroyah with the then-tentative plans for a new Mothra film.

There was also some minor confusion about GxM when that first turned up in early 2001: Promo shots depicted Godzilla in the submerged Shibuya with Megaguirus, so I think some fans (myself among them) had expected Godzilla and Megaguirus to fight in that setting.

MM's already mentioned the Godzilla.co.jp update that finally revealed (most of) the monster cast for GFW through concept art. Zilla and Keizer Ghidorah were still unknown at that point, though. I no longer recall the specifics, but I distinctly remember Gorosaurus coming up as a possibility even well after the concept art update; I think it had something to do with a toy insider who'd been at G-Fest, but again, my memory of that is pretty foggy now.

Most of my clearest memories of the production cycle of the Millennium movies is of the various configurations of Godzilla.co.jp and the wait for trailers and production images there (although usually the first glimpses of the monster suits came from users' scans of the latest Japanese pop culture magazines in the late summer). GFW's trailer didn't turn up on the official website because Masahiro Matsuoka was a Johnny's client, so outside of teaser trailers which didn't include his likeness or even much footage from the film itself, the first footage I remember seeing of that film was an underwhelming pre-release clip of Takarada's Secretary General giving the "United Space Nations" speech. I think that was also the first time anyone heard any of the soundtrack, and IMO it was a grim portent of things to come, lol.
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Mac Daddy MM
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Re: Was Final Wars originally planned to be a darker movie?

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Terasawa wrote: Sun Nov 21, 2021 1:18 pm MM's already mentioned the Godzilla.co.jp update that finally revealed (most of) the monster cast for GFW through concept art. Zilla and Keizer Ghidorah were still unknown at that point, though. I no longer recall the specifics, but I distinctly remember Gorosaurus coming up as a possibility even well after the concept art update; I think it had something to do with a toy insider who'd been at G-Fest, but again, my memory of that is pretty foggy now.

Most of my clearest memories of the production cycle of the Millennium movies is of the various configurations of Godzilla.co.jp and the wait for trailers and production images there (although usually the first glimpses of the monster suits came from users' scans of the latest Japanese pop culture magazines in the late summer). GFW's trailer didn't turn up on the official website because Masahiro Matsuoka was a Johnny's client, so outside of teaser trailers which didn't include his likeness or even much footage from the film itself, the first footage I remember seeing of that film was an underwhelming pre-release clip of Takarada's Secretary General giving the "United Space Nations" speech. I think that was also the first time anyone heard any of the soundtrack, and IMO it was a grim portent of things to come, lol.
IIRC, Gorosaurus was originally set to appear but was replaced by Zilla. If rumors are true, the whole cast of GFW was decided by placing vinyl toys on a table and the staff behind GFW removing kaiju until they were left with a roster they were happy with. Makes you wonder if someone like Varan wasn't included because of a lack of merchandise at the time.

Also, I got to ask since you also remember all this. Were you around during the huge fandom prank of 2004 where a fake trailer was made of GFW showcasing stock footage of the supposed cast, including Baragon, Ghidorah, Kiryu, Biollante, Mothra, Anguirus, Rodan, and then ended with a shot of Orga's hand hitting the ground and the announcer saying "Monster X... Bagan!" Which then lead up to a whole debacle of Toho shutting down websites and websites hijacking other websites. It was, without a doubt, the most chaotic month I had ever been part of in this fandom. I remember TK putting up a notice saying they were staying out of it while websites Goji Stomp, Rodan's Roost, Maser City and Tokyo Monsters went all-out until it was all revealed to be a huge joke.
Last edited by Mac Daddy MM on Sun Nov 21, 2021 2:14 pm, edited 2 times in total.


Quote of the Year:
plasmabeam wrote: Tue Dec 05, 2023 3:03 am Hear me out on this. What if Godzilla is actually Suko’s father? In GvK when Godzilla defeated Kong and they were roaring at each other, what if Godzilla inseminated Kong at that moment and that’s why they were screaming?

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Re: Was Final Wars originally planned to be a darker movie?

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Mac Daddy MM wrote: Sun Nov 21, 2021 2:12 pmIf rumors are true, the whole cast of GFW was decided by placing vinyl toys on a table and the staff behind GFW removing kaiju until they were left with a roster they were happy with. Makes you wonder if someone like Varan wasn't included because of a lack of merchandise at the time.
This is absolutely true. From GODZILLA FINAL WARS INTERVIEWS: RYUHEI KITAMURA...TIMES TWO at the now-archived Henshin!Online:

RUBNITZ: What was the choice of monsters in FINAL WARS based on--why not Space Godzilla or Destoroyah...?

KITAMURA: Myself and the producer and writers put all the monsters on a table and we decided which were the right ones. "Is this the right one? No, now this one is gone." [laughs] Not my personal choice...

I hope Legion chimes in about Gorosaurus because I know he had a good handle on all the toy news and rumors of that period. For me, the memory of Gorosaurus speculation is definitely linked to news coming out of G-Fest, particularly in relation to the dealers' room.
Also, I got to ask since you also remember all this. Were you around during the huge fandom prank of 2004 where a fake trailer was made of GFW showcasing stock footage of the supposed cast, including Baragon, Ghidorah, Kiryu, Biollante, Mothra, Anguirus, Rodan, and then ended with a shot of Orga's hand hitting the ground and the announcer saying "Monster X... Bagan!" Which then lead up to a whole debacle of Toho shutting down websites and websites hijacking other websites. It was, without a doubt, the most chaotic month I had ever been part of in this fandom. I remember TK putting up a notice saying they were staying out of it while websites Goji Stomp, Rodan's Roost, Maser City and Tokyo Monsters went all-out until it was all revealed to be a huge joke.
That prank trailer was the work of James Ballard (Tokyo Monsters) for April Fools' Day. It was narrated by one of his friends and done in the style of this teaser, which was the only substantial information we had on the film to that point.



The fake trailer is around online somewhere but I can't find it right now. I saw it not all that long ago.
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Re: Was Final Wars originally planned to be a darker movie?

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Terasawa wrote: Sun Nov 21, 2021 2:29 pm
That prank trailer was the work of James Ballard (Tokyo Monsters) for April Fools' Day. It was narrated by one of his friends and done in the style of this teaser, which was the only substantial information we had on the film to that point.



The fake trailer is around online somewhere but I can't find it right now. I saw it not all that long ago.
Oh thank God, someone else remembers it. That teaser alone brings back a WAVE of nostalgia. The insanity of 2004, as I said before, was something to behold. If you do find that trailer, post it will you? I've been trying to find it for the past few years when this gets brought up in chats.


Quote of the Year:
plasmabeam wrote: Tue Dec 05, 2023 3:03 am Hear me out on this. What if Godzilla is actually Suko’s father? In GvK when Godzilla defeated Kong and they were roaring at each other, what if Godzilla inseminated Kong at that moment and that’s why they were screaming?

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Re: Was Final Wars originally planned to be a darker movie?

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Yeah, if I happen across it I'll definitely post it here. It can't have been too many years ago that I saw it again because I remember precisely where I was living when it resurfaced.

That early period between the announcement of GFW and the reveal of the monster cast was really stressful! My family went on vacation out of state to my grandma's winter residence at the end of March '04 and I was certain that there'd be some sort of Godzilla news as soon as I got home (she didn't have internet, lol) -- instead, there was no legitimate update, but the huge prank was right around the corner.

GxM was the first Japanese Godzilla film whose production I followed at all, although I remember at least hearing about the live video feed of G2K production in 1999 (what a novelty that was). While I'm not a very big fan of the Millennium Godzilla movies, I have a lot of great-if-vague memories of tracking their development and release. All the more frustrating was that they generally weren't available from the major bootleggers until the July or August after their Japanese releases. I know a cam-rip of GxM was in circulation in early 2001 but I didn't see that movie until a nearby comic shop had a boot tape in January 2002.
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Re: Was Final Wars originally planned to be a darker movie?

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Terasawa wrote: Sun Nov 21, 2021 2:47 pm Yeah, if I happen across it I'll definitely post it here. It can't have been too many years ago that I saw it again because I remember precisely where I was living when it resurfaced.

That early period between the announcement of GFW and the reveal of the monster cast was really stressful! My family went on vacation out of state to my grandma's winter residence at the end of March '04 and I was certain that there'd be some sort of Godzilla news as soon as I got home (she didn't have internet, lol) -- instead, there was no legitimate update, but the huge prank was right around the corner.

GxM was the first Japanese Godzilla film whose production I followed at all, although I remember at least hearing about the live video feed of G2K production in 1999 (what a novelty that was). While I'm not a very big fan of the Millennium Godzilla movies, I have a lot of great-if-vague memories of tracking their development and release. All the more frustrating was that they generally weren't available from the major bootleggers until the July or August after their Japanese releases. I know a cam-rip of GxM was in circulation in early 2001 but I didn't see that movie until a nearby comic shop had a boot tape in January 2002.
GMK was my first "follow along" of production. I remember when Baragon was confirmed, it was a huge "holy crap" moment since it meant we'd actually see him and Godzilla on screen together, something that never happened before. Before it was brought to the US, I remember it being called "Godzilla vs. The Yamato Guardians" for sometime. I didn't see it until I got a bootleg, non-subbed DVD of it.

Besides the GFW stuff we talked about, I also vaguely remember another rumor or "leak" from 2003 or 2004 that said the next movie would be a follow up to SOS, bringing in Mecha-King Ghidorah and Varan (I think, it was some other obscure monster like Baragon and Kamoebas). This was quickly confirmed to be fake, but it made the rounds for a day or two on some forums.


Quote of the Year:
plasmabeam wrote: Tue Dec 05, 2023 3:03 am Hear me out on this. What if Godzilla is actually Suko’s father? In GvK when Godzilla defeated Kong and they were roaring at each other, what if Godzilla inseminated Kong at that moment and that’s why they were screaming?

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Re: Was Final Wars originally planned to be a darker movie?

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Y'know, finding out that the roster for Final Wars literally came from the creators putting Vinyl figures on a table and picking kaiju until they had a roster down makes a ton of sense in hindsight. :lol:

Wonder where that concept art for the Giant Octopus came from though. He didn't have a toy.
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Re: Was Final Wars originally planned to be a darker movie?

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Terasawa and Mac Daddy MM...

I was the one who originally broke the news of the GFW monster roster in April of 2004. A friend of mine was at the NJ Chiller Theater show when a Japanese dealer (M-1 maybe, I dont remember) told him the list of monsters. He immediately called me with the news and I posted it on as many sites as I could when I got home. I got some crap from people who didn't believe it but the list was about 90% accurate in the long run. The big difference was that we were told Gorosaurus and NOT Zilla was going to be in the film.

I dont really remember too much else from that time period.

Also, the first Godzilla film I followed before release was Godzilla VS Mechagodzilla in 1993, though I did know about King Ghidorah and Mothra before they came out. It's just that I didn't start discovering English-language fanzines until '93.
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Re: Was Final Wars originally planned to be a darker movie?

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Legion1979 wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 10:43 am Terasawa and Mac Daddy MM...

I was the one who originally broke the news of the GFW monster roster in April of 2004. A friend of mine was at the NJ Chiller Theater show when a Japanese dealer (M-1 maybe, I dont remember) told him the list of monsters. He immediately called me with the news and I posted it on as many sites as I could when I got home. I got some crap from people who didn't believe it but the list was about 90% accurate in the long run. The big difference was that we were told Gorosaurus and NOT Zilla was going to be in the film.
Thank you! I was pretty close after all these years.
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Re: Was Final Wars originally planned to be a darker movie?

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Monster Zero News, 04/24/2004 (via archive.org):
CONFIRMED: GFW Kaiju List
By: Mike Russo, et al
April 24, 2004

A list of the kaiju in Godzilla Final Wars.

Credit for the information goes to: Greg Cordaro, John DeSentis, Brandon Shields, Kevin Frederick, and Jim C. Thanks Guys.

”Thanks to a source who has visited the set of Godzilla: Final Wars, I now have the names of the kaiju who will be appearing in the film, although there might be MORE who are not listed. Monster X's identity is still a secret.

The kaiju are:

Godzilla

Monster X

Mothra (larva form)

King Ghidora

Rodan

Angilas

Gigan

Manda

Gorosaurus

Kumunga

Kamakaris

Ebirah

Minya

King Seasar

I'm baffled by the inclusion of Minya and King Seasar, and a little surprised that I havent heard Baragon and Varan's names come up. There's always the possibility that these two will appear in the film, however.

I'm not surprised by the fact that Mechagodzilla is nowhere to be seen, since I think we can all live without seeing that kaiju again for a while. I was also right in assuming that Space Godzilla, Biollante and Destroyah would NOT be in the film.

Lastly, I've been told that King Ghidora would have 4 legs in the film, so make of it what you will.”

Monster Zero News, 05/01/2004 (via archive.org):
Godzilla Final Wars: Major Spoiler!
By: Xinhuanet
May 1, 2004
Shanghai Daily

A Chinese news article reveals what is purported to be a MAJOR SPOILER for Godzilla Final Wars. If you don't want to know then don't read!

EIJING, May 1 (Xinhuanet) -- Godzilla is finally going to die - honest. And it's going to happen in Shanghai.

Japan's Toho Pictures is already filming the final Godzilla flick for the legendary monster's 50th anniversary on the big screen.

In "Godzilla: Final Wars," the fictitious green monster that wreaked chaos around the world will lose his final battle to a fire dragon and die by the Oriental Pearl TV Tower in Pudong.

The filming of local scenes will last about four days in the city's Chedun film studio.

Director Ryuhei Kitamura and some of the cast are scheduled to be in the city at the end of this month to complete the shots.

The film's plot could be described, kindly, as uncomplicated. Godzilla's child is killed accidentally by humans, which drives the monster crazy. The reptile-like creature then goes on a massive rampage around the world, according to a local film import company that will assist in the shooting of the local parts.

After several rounds of epic encounters, Godzilla faces the fire dragon. The final battle is set to happen on the Bund.

Godzilla's fury will not be contained to Shanghai however. He will also smash, bash and crash his way through the United States, France, Australia and other countries.

Nearly 300 extras will be hired locally for the final scenes.

Cast shots will be completed mainly inside the studio while computer technology will be used to synchronize outdoor filming of the Bund and the Pearl Tower.

Representative buildings and scenic spots will be shot on location. Kitamura has also confirmed that the Eiffel Tower in France will be one of the locations for a separate scene.

The movie is now being filmed by several teams at the same time in different countries. The Japanese premiere is scheduled for December 11.

The local film import company's management said they are interested in introducing the movie to the city's cinemas.

Toho Pictures has produced 22 movies starring Godzilla since 1954. Hollywood also paid the company to produce its version in 1998.

Kitamura, 35, is a rising director famous for glamorous fighting scenes in cult films.

The young director has won world acclaim for his 2003 production, "Azumi," a comic book movie, which is considered the Asian counterpart of American director Quentin Tarantino's "Kill Bill" films.

Henshin!Online, 07/06/2004 (via archive.org):
Big Fighters & Little Beauties, Shanghai Burns and Monster X Revealed!
Breaking News and Scoops on GODZILLA FINAL WARS
Author: August Ragone with Keith Aiken
Source: Anioha, Various Japanese News Sources

Following the casting announcement of K-1 fighter Don Frye as "Captain Gordon" of the Undersea Warship Goten (aka "Atragon"), another real-life tough guy has been cast in Ryuhei Kitamura's upcoming GODZILLA FINAL WARS. The 35 year-old founding father of Pancrase fighting, Masakatsu Funaki, has been cast as "Kumasaka," Commanding Officer of the special mutant soldier squad. The 6' tall, 205 pound two-time "King of Pancrase" should be an imposing on-screen presence and create a great contrast with star Masahiro Matsuoka, who plays mutant soldier "Ozaki."

Going from Beast to Beauty, the biggest little news for Godzilla fans is that idols Chihiro Otsuka and Masami Nagasawa have been tapped for FINAL WARS to reprise their roles as the "Shobijin" (Little Beauties), the guardian priestesses of Mothra, from last year's GODZILLA: TOKYO SOS. This stands as more continuity to the original Godzilla universe, known in fan circles as the "Showa Era", because these are films that were produced during the reign of Hirohito, the Showa Emperor.

Meanwhile, Japanese news reports are claiming that Godzilla and Angilas are to engage in their duel to the death in Shanghai, China. Location shooting began in "The City on the Sea" on the morning of July 4th and wrapped on the 5th (Shanghai Time). Overseas Location Director Ryuichi Takatsu visited Shanghai for the first time to take charge of the filming. "Shanghai is a city where the impression of the future is overflowing, and is very well suited to the futuristic atmosphere of this film," Takatsu remarked." But, after only two days of shooting at this location, you become very aware of the mixture of old and new... the old buildings begin to take more of your attention because they are so fascinating."

Over 200 extras gathered at the Shanghai Car Ton and were directed to flee for their lives from Godzilla, who suddenly comes ashore at the famous international city. The extras were told that the monster king is full of anger and fury and were directed to react accordingly. They started with a look of shock and surprise, then began running in different directions as Godzilla stalked them towards the Oriental Pearl Tower and the famous Peace Restaurant.

But, perhaps the latest and greatest news concerns the true identity of the mysterious and H.R. Giger-inspired "Monster X," which has been the source of much speculation in both Japan and America. Inside sources have revealed exclusively to Henshin! Online that Monster X is indeed none other than a first stage creature which will transform into a new version of Godzilla's greatest foe, -- the "Monster of Monsters" -- King Ghidorah! The katakana (the Japanese writing system reserved for foreign words) spelling of the creature's name translates as "Kaiser-Ghidorah" (taken from the German word for "emperor"). Two suit actors will be required to operate the massive winged Kaiser-Ghidorah costume, similar in operation to the "Death Ghidorah" from REBIRTH OF MOTHRA.
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Re: Was Final Wars originally planned to be a darker movie?

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Legion1979 wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 10:43 am Terasawa and Mac Daddy MM...

I was the one who originally broke the news of the GFW monster roster in April of 2004. A friend of mine was at the NJ Chiller Theater show when a Japanese dealer (M-1 maybe, I dont remember) told him the list of monsters. He immediately called me with the news and I posted it on as many sites as I could when I got home. I got some crap from people who didn't believe it but the list was about 90% accurate in the long run. The big difference was that we were told Gorosaurus and NOT Zilla was going to be in the film.

I dont really remember too much else from that time period.

Also, the first Godzilla film I followed before release was Godzilla VS Mechagodzilla in 1993, though I did know about King Ghidorah and Mothra before they came out. It's just that I didn't start discovering English-language fanzines until '93.
Damn, so YOU were the one that got me excited for Goro's supposed return? :P


Quote of the Year:
plasmabeam wrote: Tue Dec 05, 2023 3:03 am Hear me out on this. What if Godzilla is actually Suko’s father? In GvK when Godzilla defeated Kong and they were roaring at each other, what if Godzilla inseminated Kong at that moment and that’s why they were screaming?

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