Final Wars: Why The Hate?

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Re: Final Wars: Why The Hate?

Post by ROMG4 »

goji89 wrote: Sat Apr 24, 2021 11:22 am
ROMG4 wrote: Sat Apr 24, 2021 11:18 am
goji89 wrote: Sat Apr 24, 2021 11:12 am

I miss that crazy bastard
We lost him to Facebook, gosh darn it

in the past 10 years of TK against all the insane amount of things that have happened, that alone is easily one of the most awful things that happened here.

He just left, packed his backs left to get milk and never came back
Just like my dad....... I'm still holding onto my bowl of cereal I poured myself that morning in case he returns with the milk he said he was going to get :cry:
You mad man! Cereal left for that long will be on the very VERGE of becoming The Blob or H-Man you have to dispose of this monster you have constructed or the very planet will be doomed!

You must cast it into a McDonalds greeze frier, only there in the anti-life that is the Mcdonalds preservation formula will we have a chance of survival
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Never forget tadpole :g2k:
Cinematic Kaiju wrote:"...And you keep still because you think that maybe his visual acuity is based on movement like T-Rex - he'll lose you if you don't move. But no, not Godzilla. You stare at him, and he just stares right back."
SoggyNoodles2016 wrote: Sun May 16, 2021 6:00 amI'm sowey, I didn't mean it uMu

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Re: Final Wars: Why The Hate?

Post by goji89 »

ROMG4 wrote: Sat Apr 24, 2021 11:27 am
goji89 wrote: Sat Apr 24, 2021 11:22 am
ROMG4 wrote: Sat Apr 24, 2021 11:18 am

We lost him to Facebook, gosh darn it

in the past 10 years of TK against all the insane amount of things that have happened, that alone is easily one of the most awful things that happened here.

He just left, packed his backs left to get milk and never came back
Just like my dad....... I'm still holding onto my bowl of cereal I poured myself that morning in case he returns with the milk he said he was going to get :cry:
You mad man! Cereal left for that long will be on the very VERGE of becoming The Blob or H-Man you have to dispose of this monster you have constructed or the very planet will be doomed!

You must cast it into a McDonalds greeze frier, only there in the anti-life that is the Mcdonalds preservation formula will we have a chance of survival
How skreeonking dare you suggest that.

It's all I have to remember my dad you damn bastard.

It's a promise....a promise he made :cry:

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Re: Final Wars: Why The Hate?

Post by ROMG4 »

goji89 wrote: Sat Apr 24, 2021 11:29 am
How skreeonking dare you suggest that.

It's all I have to remember my dad you damn bastard.

It's a promise....a promise he made :cry:
But you must, you must cast it into the fryer
Spoiler:
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Never forget tadpole :g2k:
Cinematic Kaiju wrote:"...And you keep still because you think that maybe his visual acuity is based on movement like T-Rex - he'll lose you if you don't move. But no, not Godzilla. You stare at him, and he just stares right back."
SoggyNoodles2016 wrote: Sun May 16, 2021 6:00 amI'm sowey, I didn't mean it uMu

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Re: Final Wars: Why The Hate?

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ROMG4 wrote: Sat Apr 24, 2021 11:35 am
goji89 wrote: Sat Apr 24, 2021 11:29 am
How skreeonking dare you suggest that.

It's all I have to remember my dad you damn bastard.

It's a promise....a promise he made :cry:
But you must, you must cast it into the fryer
Spoiler:
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If that's how I'll go.....by the memory of my dad that became a monster then so be it. Let my Mr. T bowl of cereal take me away.

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Re: Final Wars: Why The Hate?

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UltramanGoji wrote: Fri Apr 23, 2021 6:37 pm
LamangoKaijura wrote: Fri Apr 23, 2021 5:24 pm Sixth, the movie was SO skreeonking panned by the Japanese audience, Godzilla was FORCED to retire.
This ignores the fact that the series had dwindling box office for years at this point but sure, I guess.
Oh yeah, it was dwindling, for sure, but every one since 1999 gave a bit of success. GFW was the final nail in the coffin. If you excuse the pun.
Ryuhei Kitamura, like many directors before and since, took the opportunity and made the movie he wanted to make. Whether it was made for the fans or not, I and many other fans have found it satisfying and enjoyable.
The thing is, like many directors before and since, make an actual skreeonking effort in their films, not ripping off things that was already dated to hell and back like Kitamura did with his skreeonking Matrix bullshit (Ozaki stopping alien lasers with a hand gesture? Come the skreeonk on), his stereotyping of Godzilla fans as fat, screaming, chocolate covered kids who smash toys against each other and toss them into fire, and the New York stereotyping. Also let's not forget Kitamura has gone on record to say there were no Godzilla movies before Godzilla vs MechaGodzilla 1975 and his. Yes. He's a hack. And his other skreeonking films aren't that great either. Logic dictates if he makes multiple bad films, he's a poop director.
Whether it was made for the fans or not, I and many other fans have found it satisfying and enjoyable.
I've been a fan of Godzilla for skreeonking 29 years of my god damn life, since I was 2 skreeonking years old. I've also tormented myself with bad movies since I was 16 years old. Everything from Manos the Hands of Fate to Touch of Satan. And I even own them with out the MST3K riffing to really get the feel. Guess what. GFW has the same energy as some of these shitschlockfest. And if you're so skreeonking offended by someone who dislikes a movie you do because of it's Cracked out Squirrel with ADHD style of editing and 'EXPLOSIONS EQUAL COOL' then that's your problem, bud.
Last edited by LamangoKaijura on Sat Apr 24, 2021 1:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Final Wars: Why The Hate?

Post by Major sssspielberg! »

LamangoKaijura wrote: Sat Apr 24, 2021 1:32 pm I've been a fan of Godzilla for skreeonking 29 years of my god damn life, since I was 2 skreeonking years old.
Good for you!
LamangoKaijura wrote: Sat Apr 24, 2021 1:32 pm I've also tormented myself with bad movies since I was 16 years old. Everything from Manos the Hands of Fate to Touch of Satan. And I even own them with out the MST3K riffing to really get the feel. Guess what. GFW has the same energy as some of these shitschlockfest.
Debatable, but you're allowed your opinion. I've seen much more lazy and sloppy large-scale releases, which I think are more comparable here than Manos or Touch of Satan. Michael Bay for instance?
LamangoKaijura wrote: Sat Apr 24, 2021 1:32 pm And if you're so skreeonking offended by someone who dislikes a movie you do because of it's Cracked out Squirrel with ADHD style of editing and 'EXPLOSIONS EQUAL COOL' then that's your problem, bud.
To be clear, when I originally typed my comment, I opened it with "I understand not liking GFW, but I don't understand why it inspires such vehement and excessive criticism." I trimmed it way back for the sake of brevity, but it's clear I should have kept the whole thing. (although I think "over-the-top hatred" covered that base, clearly I was wrong.)
I'm not offended, I'm annoyed. I find a great many people criticizing GFW tend to get just as over-the-top as the fanboys.
Out of the many many films I enjoy, one of them is a spastic action movie with Godzilla in it that does feature explosions (I do like other aspects of the film, btw) and belated derivative scenes from hollywood movies (like Godzilla vs King Ghidorah, another film I like by a guy who wasn't a diehard Godzilla fan). If that offends you, or that I'll defend that movie, which does have a special place in my heart, then that's your problem bud.

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Re: Final Wars: Why The Hate?

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Oh good. You both ended your counter points in calling each other bud. It's good to see the best of buds just having a peaceful conversation.

Warms my heart I tells ya.

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Re: Final Wars: Why The Hate?

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goji89 wrote: Sat Apr 24, 2021 11:40 am
ROMG4 wrote: Sat Apr 24, 2021 11:35 am
goji89 wrote: Sat Apr 24, 2021 11:29 am
How skreeonking dare you suggest that.

It's all I have to remember my dad you damn bastard.

It's a promise....a promise he made :cry:
But you must, you must cast it into the fryer
Spoiler:
Image
If that's how I'll go.....by the memory of my dad that became a monster then so be it. Let my Mr. T bowl of cereal take me away.
Okay thinking about it, Mr T. Vs. The Mr T. Cereal monster would the best thing ever, I DEMAND you keep this cereal. Keep it secret, keep it safe.
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Never forget tadpole :g2k:
Cinematic Kaiju wrote:"...And you keep still because you think that maybe his visual acuity is based on movement like T-Rex - he'll lose you if you don't move. But no, not Godzilla. You stare at him, and he just stares right back."
SoggyNoodles2016 wrote: Sun May 16, 2021 6:00 amI'm sowey, I didn't mean it uMu

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Re: Final Wars: Why The Hate?

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As someone who neither hates nor loves Final Wars, I'm gonna go off on a limb and say that a good part of why some people hate it so much is because of how stylistically different it is from other films. Sure, it fits in with the overall edgy aesthetic of the Millenium era, but it's influenced a lot by things like The Matrix, anime, and (weirdly enough) 80s/90s action films in a way that other Godzilla movies simply aren't. As a result, some people may be harsher to it than they would be of other godzilla films of approximately equal quality that don't stand out as much (while they might not love those films, they won't hate them to the same extent as Final Wars simply because the films are more in line with what they think a Godzilla film is.)
Personally, I appreciate the differences of Final Wars and I think it stands as a unique cultural benchmark in the Godzilla mythos (It's also a lot easier for me to remember the characters in this film compared to many other Godzilla films), although it's not exactly appropriate as a "Grand Finale/Anniversary" film.
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Re: Final Wars: Why The Hate?

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The movie is a jumbled mess cramming everything under the sun to make a film that was supposedly the last Godzilla entry and it didn't feel anything like that at all. It often felt like power rangers and Godzilla is the Megazord.

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Re: Final Wars: Why The Hate?

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LamangoKaijura wrote: Fri Apr 23, 2021 5:24 pm Well, I've kept my mouth shut for YEARS and avoided this topic. Let me tell you what I've learned about this film, it's director, and the process.
First, I learned the director apparently hated or disliked, or hasn't even seen ANY Godzilla film prior to Godzilla vs MechaGodzilla 1974.
Second, I learned that he wasn't even a fan of Godzilla.
Third, he literally had a table of bandai figures and went 'yeah this one looks good, put him in the movie', not even giving the monsters abilities and concepts a chance to show, aka, Hedorah being nerfed so much he became a low ranking Ultraman Taro villain.
Fourth, I had to deal with people fan wanking this skreeonking movie since 2004. Holy. poop. There used to be a person here named GXG who'd come up with every way possible to make GFW Godzilla out as this skreeonking god.
Fifth, the director just wanted to make a Matrix/Star Wars/X-men movie. And the way the movie was written and shot, Godzilla was a last minute detail he was skreeonking forced to add.
Sixth, the movie was SO skreeonking panned by the Japanese audience, Godzilla was FORCED to retire. "OH BUT TOHO WANTED TO STOP MAKING FILMS IN 2005!' Yeah, and it was 2004. Godzilla took a skreeonking bullet and died on his anniversary, and had to wait until 2014 to come back in full swing. It took 10 years for them to realize what to do with Godzilla after GFW skreeonked him over so hard that the Japanese fans were SICK of him.
1/2. Doesn't really matter. Plenty of decent directors haven't seen or read much of their source material. In fact, Christopher Nolan and Bryan Singer [ I heavily dislike the man, but I really liked the first two X-Men films and what he did with their emotional weight.] both weren't really fans of their respective franchises and their outings were for the most part, decent films or at least decent for their time. Especially when only one other studio handled it well until 2007. The key is simply making a decent film. Sometimes, emotional distance from a project is a great thing for a franchise than having a fan in there who can't objectively know what to cut or keep. That's where one gets a Superman Returns.

3. If he made the film to your liking, you'd instead say that as a massive positive. As if he was finding his "inner child" again.

4. The movie isn't that bad or good. If someone likes it, oh well. Live and let live. I like it and found it a pretty fun flick that came cat just the right time in my life. At least it never had the pretensions of trying to make it look like the story was going to be deeper, and instead, it's merely a pretentious dressing on a pig. That's basically GMK, 1984 and Shin Godzilla to a way lesser extent. It was a fun movie that dared to be as stylistically different as vs Hedorah. For a series that needed something safer for its fiftieth anniversary for the audience and for the box office, an experimental take on Godzilla wasn't exactly wise. Not really Ryuhei Kitamura's fault, since even you admit that he wanted to do a far different movie unrelated to Godzilla.

5. Plenty of other studios have done for this. The reason why many franchise reboots have been off the wall or completely terrible is from this very reason. Hollywood studios want reboots or "connected universes" and won't approve of original films. Can't blame directors for wanting to get their vision and ideas out when oftentimes, they can be [ and usually are] pretty low on the totem pole. It's simply TOHO being like a typical movie studio. If even Shusuke Kaneko couldn't get full creative control over his film after his immense success rebooting Gamera into a respectable trilogy, Ryuhei Kitamura didn't have a chance. He simply just made the best out of his situation. Or in other words, made lemonade from the studio's lemons.

6. Blame TOHO. If they simply allowed him to do his action movie and hired a director that would've brought a more traditional Godzilla film honoring its fiftieth anniversary, there wouldn't have been that problem at all.

- They denied a decent Godzilla pitch because Tomoyuki Tanaka was racist against foreigners, instead producing schlock after schlock until Destoroyah.

- Turned an interesting original Godzilla pitch from an American into a box office bomb that stripped all reference of Godzilla out of it.

- TOHO allowed Roland Emmerich free reign to make Godzilla as wimpy and cowardly as possible, and didn't put their foot down when Sony balked at a "high budget" movie that ended up being better than the similarly budgeted 1998 film [disregarding the massive marketing campaign]. Only when it flopped were they so brave enough to declare it was bad.

- TOHO interfered with Shusuke Kaneko's vision for his Godzilla movie while approving Megaguirus, resulting in a much weaker film strung around monsters that clearly made no sense in their roles.

- TOHO denied a Quentin Tarantino Godzilla film when he was in his immensely successful prime, probably because he was foreign. It seemed as different and wild as Ryuhei Kitamura's Final Wars, but unlike Kitamura, his name on the project and cast would've brought financial success internationally versus domestically. It would've revived the franchise sooner than a decade.

There's probably many other instances I don't know, but these stuck out like a sore thumb to me. The studio's not perfect by a long shot. Given how they've approved KOTM 2019 and GvK's plots, I can't say they've necessarily are or ever were for creative integrity or even financial success. They only pretend to care to sucker their longtime fans in. Ryuhei Kitamura was simply a fall guy for incompetent studio management. Nothing more. While it was his fault for the final product, I can't particularly blame somebody who had his creative vision compromised having a chip or two on his shoulder. So knowing he likely did what he did because of studio politics makes me more sympathetic to him than not.

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Re: Final Wars: Why The Hate?

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Bigdog wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 9:44 pm -snip-
Yeah, I don't get the hate against the director. I've seen some of his other movies and they're heavily stylized, and ironically I think a lot of people on this site would probably love him. I'm not a big fan of GFW, but I don't get the antagonism towards Ryuhei Kitamura. I'll say something, that although how much the film jerks Godzilla off in a way I don't like, I think the film has really good action and set scenes, minus the monsters being fodder. The director did his job and well at that. There’s still some things to criticize him on, he’s not entirely blameless, but I think you get what I mean.

Good points all around, but I also think it's a bit too simple of labeling Toho as one entity and not one massive company comprised of many different people with many different views. All of this is why I'm really happy now because of Shin and SP, and even to a far lesser extent the monster planet trilogy. People got to make what they wanted to versus just rehashing Godzilla fighting a nostalgia bait monster for the nth about of time. Same thing for more freedom in the monster verse.
Last edited by LSD Jellyfish on Thu May 13, 2021 11:21 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Final Wars: Why The Hate?

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Bigdog wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 9:44 pm - They denied a decent Godzilla pitch because Tomoyuki Tanaka was racist against foreigners, instead producing schlock after schlock until Destoroyah.
Quite the accusation. You're going to need to cite this.
- Turned an interesting original Godzilla pitch from an American into a box office bomb that stripped all reference of Godzilla out of it.

- TOHO allowed Roland Emmerich free reign to make Godzilla as wimpy and cowardly as possible, and didn't put their foot down when Sony balked at a "high budget" movie that ended up being better than the similarly budgeted 1998 film [disregarding the massive marketing campaign]. Only when it flopped were they so brave enough to declare it was bad.
Why would Toho have any say in the development of an internal Sony project? Certainly Toho wouldn't have any authority over how Sony budgeted its own film. This is an unrealistic and uninformed take. Toho didn't have the absolute control over the Sony film that you're alleging.

Feel free to read the original 1993 contract here if you doubt that.
- TOHO interfered with Shusuke Kaneko's vision for his Godzilla movie while approving Megaguirus, resulting in a much weaker film strung around monsters that clearly made no sense in their roles.
Kaneko's pitch was subject to Toho's modifications precisely because GxM had failed to meet expectations at the box office. There was a lot of doubt about the future of the Godzilla series going into GxM and even more after its floundered. (Never reached the top spot at the box office and remained a top ten earner for only a few weeks.)
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Re: Final Wars: Why The Hate?

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Bigdog wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 9:44 pm
- Turned an interesting original Godzilla pitch from an American into a box office bomb that stripped all reference of Godzilla out of it.

- TOHO denied a Quentin Tarantino Godzilla film when he was in his immensely successful prime, probably because he was foreign. It seemed as different and wild as Ryuhei Kitamura's Final Wars, but unlike Kitamura, his name on the project and cast would've brought financial success internationally versus domestically. It would've revived the franchise sooner than a decade.
Can you provide the sources for these two points? I'm entirely unfamiliar with the first one unless its a reference to G98, and I knew Tarantino wanted to make a g film (or at least mentioned hypothetical interest), but I never knew he was actually denied making one.
Last edited by Jetty_Jags on Fri May 14, 2021 12:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Final Wars: Why The Hate?

Post by LamangoKaijura »

Jetty_Jags wrote: Fri May 14, 2021 12:56 pm
Bigdog wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 9:44 pm
- Turned an interesting original Godzilla pitch from an American into a box office bomb that stripped all reference of Godzilla out of it.

- TOHO denied a Quentin Tarantino Godzilla film when he was in his immensely successful prime, probably because he was foreign. It seemed as different and wild as Ryuhei Kitamura's Final Wars, but unlike Kitamura, his name on the project and cast would've brought financial success internationally versus domestically. It would've revived the franchise sooner than a decade.
Can you provide the sources for these two points? I'm entirely unfamiliar with the first one unless its a reference to G98, and I knew Tarantino wanted to make a g film (or at least mentioned hypothetical interest), but I never knew he was actually denied making one.
The source is their ass.
Yeah, I don't get the hate against the director. I've seen some of his other movies and they're heavily stylized, and ironically I think a lot of people on this site would probably love him. I'm not a big fan of GFW, but I don't get the antagonism towards Ryuhei Kitamura.
Cause he literally said there was no good Godzilla movies until 1974, then until 2004. That, and his other movies skreeonking suck twice as much.
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Re: Final Wars: Why The Hate?

Post by LegendZilla »

This is one of those movies that had the misfortune of the people who worked on it trying too hard to appeal to everybody, which almost always ends in disaster.

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Re: Final Wars: Why The Hate?

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Terasawa wrote: Fri May 14, 2021 10:57 am-snip-
Yeah I think it’s too easy to just say X or Y is racist on Toho’s End beyond just wanting to keep the Godzilla franchise primarily situated in japan. It also counteracts that contrary to a lot of assumptions the Godzilla franchise has had a lot of intentional and “foreign involvement” from the onset.

As much as I’d be curious to see a Tarantino Godzilla flick, and also believe he might be a “true fan”, I could also see the film being as obnoxious as KOTM/GFW. However, all of this is based on assumptions based off a comment from Bigdog that seems woefully without sources. In the future, if you’re going to make such sweeping accusations please provide one little nugget of truth to back things up.

I’ll restate something I stated early, but it’s far too easy to blame and shame Toho as one entity, when it’s a large Japanese conglomerate with multiple people involved and lots of unknowns. Hindsight is easy but that doesn’t change that GFW is one of the lesser Godzilla films from a thematic and story telling perspective.
Last edited by LSD Jellyfish on Sat May 15, 2021 7:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Final Wars: Why The Hate?

Post by shadowgigan »

Lol, if Tarantino ends up directing Godzilla, I think I'll just give up on life. Really no point in living after that.

Added in 2 minutes 17 seconds:
goji89 wrote: Sun Apr 25, 2021 5:54 pm The movie is a jumbled mess cramming everything under the sun to make a film that was supposedly the last Godzilla entry and it didn't feel anything like that at all. It often felt like power rangers and Godzilla is the Megazord.
GFW is awesome when you're like 12 years old. Just look at my sig.

Still I enjoy the film and its probably number 3 on my most rewatched list of the millenium films.
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Re: Final Wars: Why The Hate?

Post by Rando Yaguchi »

shadowgigan wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 10:57 pm GFW is awesome when you're like 12 years old. Just look at my sig.
Bruh, that sig still cracks me up. Don't ever change it.
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Re: Final Wars: Why The Hate?

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Rando Yaguchi wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 11:43 pm
shadowgigan wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 10:57 pm GFW is awesome when you're like 12 years old. Just look at my sig.
Bruh, that sig still cracks me up. Don't ever change it.
Literally either me or some guy named Omega on GojiStomp made it when I was like 12. I kid you not after I saw GFW at the theater, I turned to my dad and said "that was the greatest special effects movie ever made."
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