Godzilla vs. Destoroyah (1995)

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Re: Godzilla vs. Destoroyah (1995)

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Another question for those of you critical of this film : What last-minute changes could've been realistically made to fix this film and make it worthy of being within the top 5 Godzilla films of all time? That is, besides whatever complaints one may have over the effects of the era.

One thing I would've done is actually work harder in making Tokyo seem evacuated. For crying out loud you can see people going into an airplane while Godzilla getting dragged around by the neck! Also, maybe Miki could state a reason as to why her powers are fading. Lastly, I have to admit that young guy in the movie, Kenichi or whatever his name is did seem like an unfeeling dick for most of the film. They could've made him treat his decisions as an unfortunate necessity since he passionately studied Godzilla all his life.
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Re: Godzilla vs. Destoroyah (1995)

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LegendZilla wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 10:33 pm Another question for those of you critical of this film : What last-minute changes could've been realistically made to fix this film and make it worthy of being within the top 5 Godzilla films of all time?
It would take a lot more than "last minute changes" to get this anywhere close to the top 5 Godzilla movies.
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Re: Godzilla vs. Destoroyah (1995)

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Terasawa wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 7:20 am
LegendZilla wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 10:33 pm Another question for those of you critical of this film : What last-minute changes could've been realistically made to fix this film and make it worthy of being within the top 5 Godzilla films of all time?
It would take a lot more than "last minute changes" to get this anywhere close to the top 5 Godzilla movies.
I've been saying it for years. Godzilla vs Destroyah is a terrible movie with an extremely manipulative final act that tricks you into thinking the movie is really good.

I get the impression that when people ask these questions they're expecting people to say that maybe the effects should have been better, or that a different monster should have appeared in it or something similar. But with these weaker Heisei movies, the deficiencies are so widespread in all aspects of production that it would be hard to change just one or two things to fix it.

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Re: Godzilla vs. Destoroyah (1995)

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Legion1979 wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 8:53 am
Terasawa wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 7:20 am
LegendZilla wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 10:33 pm Another question for those of you critical of this film : What last-minute changes could've been realistically made to fix this film and make it worthy of being within the top 5 Godzilla films of all time?
It would take a lot more than "last minute changes" to get this anywhere close to the top 5 Godzilla movies.
I've been saying it for years. Godzilla vs Destroyah is a terrible movie with an extremely manipulative final act that tricks you into thinking the movie is really good.
It’s always been hip and cool to shit on the Heisei films, especially around here because that’s just the popular opinion. Why should having an (un)popular opinion about any given film(s) be any different?

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Re: Godzilla vs. Destoroyah (1995)

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....what?

All we were doing is saying that some "last minute" changes would never be enough to make this a top 5 movie. It's biggest problems go all the way back to the script. That's something a last minute change would never fix.

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Re: Godzilla vs. Destoroyah (1995)

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Legion1979 wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 10:10 am ....what?

All we were doing is saying that some "last minute" changes would never be enough to make this a top 5 movie. It's biggest problems go all the way back to the script. That's something a last minute change would never fix.
Then what changes to the script would’ve you done to make the film at least passable for you?

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Re: Godzilla vs. Destoroyah (1995)

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LegendZilla wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 10:12 am
Legion1979 wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 10:10 am ....what?

All we were doing is saying that some "last minute" changes would never be enough to make this a top 5 movie. It's biggest problems go all the way back to the script. That's something a last minute change would never fix.
Then what changes to the script would’ve you done to make the film at least passable for you?
It's a really messy narrative. You have the Oxygen Destroyer introduced through two different routes (through Dr. Ijuin's work and poposed by Kenichi Yamane), one rendered pointless by the presence of the other; the connection between Ijuin's work and Destoroyah's emergence is imprecise. You have numerous characters who are set-up but don't really pay off. It's clear that Omori was trying to write the same kind of complex ensemble narrative he had for Biollante and King Ghidorah, but he just didn't have the time to shape it the way he had those earlier films. So, it's not so much a matter of nips and tucks to what exists, but of going back to the core concepts and devising a stronger structure in which all the individual pieces connect better.
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Re: Godzilla vs. Destoroyah (1995)

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eabaker wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 10:21 am
LegendZilla wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 10:12 am
Legion1979 wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 10:10 am ....what?

All we were doing is saying that some "last minute" changes would never be enough to make this a top 5 movie. It's biggest problems go all the way back to the script. That's something a last minute change would never fix.
Then what changes to the script would’ve you done to make the film at least passable for you?
It's a really messy narrative. You have the Oxygen Destroyer introduced through two different routes (through Dr. Ijuin's work and poposed by Kenichi Yamane), one rendered pointless by the presence of the other; the connection between Ijuin's work and Destoroyah's emergence is imprecise. You have numerous characters who are set-up but don't really pay off. It's clear that Omori was trying to write the same kind of complex ensemble narrative he had for Biollante and King Ghidorah, but he just didn't have the time to shape it the way he had those earlier films. So, it's not so much a matter of nips and tucks to what exists, but of going back to the core concepts and devising a stronger structure in which all the individual pieces connect better.
My question his what could’ve been done early on in the script for those ideas to work. Perhaps Kenichi takes note of Iujin’s research and suggests that he re-create the OD. Whether he does it directly, or indirectly doesn’t matter. That way, you have both routes work in tandem with eachother.
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Re: Godzilla vs. Destoroyah (1995)

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....I'd say the movie needed a completely different script. If you're going to start referencing the 1954 film do more than just provide it lip service and give the surviving cast members of the original movie something to do. Keep Godzilla the focus. Don't dump him midway through to focus on a new monster. Make Miki actually freaking matter. Make the science a little more interesting than "This is how, why and when Godzilla is going to melt down because screw you, that's why". This should be an apocalyptic scenario, but it never feels that way.

And that's not even getting into the effects and the acting...
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Re: Godzilla vs. Destoroyah (1995)

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Legion1979 wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 10:41 am ....I'd say the movie needed a completely different script. If you're going to start referencing the 1954 film do more than just provide it lip service and give the surviving cast members of the original movie something to do. Keep Godzilla the focus. Don't dump him midway through to focus on a new monster. Make Miki actually freaking matter. Make the science a little more interesting than "This is how, why and when Godzilla is going to melt down because screw you, that's why". This should be an apocalyptic scenario, but it never feels that way.

And that's not even getting into the effects and the acting...
To say nothing of Destoroyah himself, who lived nowhere near up to the threat the movie built him up to be.
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Re: Godzilla vs. Destoroyah (1995)

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One big issue with the script is all the big events aren't really connected to one another.

Birth Island blew up, the cause unknown and unimportant because it needed to happened to cause Godzilla Meltdown. In GvB they were keeping close tabs on Godzilla inside the volcano, planning on what to do if he broke out. Now they just send a helicopter to check on Birth Island from time to time, and have no plans to do anything if he did leave.

Super X III is built for nuclear power plant emergency and isn't even a G-Force weapon, they forgot it was even an option in the command room. Although it is armored against Godzillas atomic breath, so it is really unclear. It's almost the Garuda all over again, expect this time the pilot just jumps in a does his own thing with out asking for permission. Funny that is the same actor, but not the same character.

Destoroyah is released because someone was digging a tunnel under Tokyo Bay. Destoroyah appearance is completely separate from anything else going on, so random it could have happened anytime before or after. Why Dr Ijuin is called to take soil samples is a complete mystery.

Speaking of Dr Ijuin he and his micro-oxygen experiments are only there so he can technobabble about Destoroyah. All connections with Dr Serizawa is never explored, you don't even know if he was working from Dr Serizawa research published before the events of Gojira in 1954, or just stumbled on the discovery on his own.

Miki losing her psychic powers after they were getting stronger in the last film isn't anything but a single line in the film, and the 2nd psychic was not needed at all.

Both of the Yamane's really do nothing of importance during the film, and having Emiko Yamane appearance was wasted potential.

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Re: Godzilla vs. Destoroyah (1995)

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szmigiel wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 12:06 pm the 2nd psychic was not needed at all.
The movie seems to be trying to attempt to address some kind of theme of Westernization of the younger generation, and she's part of that, but it never comes together into anything meaningful.
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Re: Godzilla vs. Destoroyah (1995)

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A Japanese reviewer for G-Fan suggested a theme or perhaps motif of generational change, which is possible, but the movie doesn't do anything overt with that either. Hell, it barely does anything subtle with it. It's just there and unexplored.
szmigiel wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 12:06 pmIn GvB they were keeping close tabs on Godzilla inside the volcano, planning on what to do if he broke out. Now they just send a helicopter to check on Birth Island from time to time, and have no plans to do anything if he did leave.

Super X III is built for nuclear power plant emergency and isn't even a G-Force weapon, they forgot it was even an option in the command room. Although it is armored against Godzillas atomic breath, so it is really unclear.

Miki losing her psychic powers after they were getting stronger in the last film isn't anything but a single line in the film
These are all great points. Also thanks for bringing up the nuclear power plant scene, which has always felt contrived to me. There's no good reason why Godzilla wouldn't just abandon his advance on the plant once he's thawed. If anything, it would make more sense for him to try attacking it again. Instead, there's just a hand-wavey explanation about his power level being depleted (which --again-- would be why he'd want to feast on nuclear energy!) and he just goes back to following Junior's course.

And the structure of the final battle sucks, too. It goes on and on without momentum because Destoroyah keeps disappearing or transforming into its smaller form so as to buy the human cast a few moments to tell us Godzilla's temperature. Destoroyah uses some devastating attacks against Godzilla, but G scores critical hits in retaliation nearly right away each time. There's no sense that Godzilla will ever lose the fight, so continuing to stretch it out only highlights just how unsatisfying the damn thing is.

Also, the reason for pitting Godzilla and Destoroyah against each other doesn't make much sense, either. We're shown about halfway through the film that the JSDF's freezer tech will work against both monsters*. There's no good reason for bringing Godzilla to Tokyo except, I guess, to get them both in the same place and commit all troops in one operation instead of two. But I don't think the film offers that as its reason.

*Except for that one time when it doesn't work against Destoroyah (for more contrived reasons), only to work once again as the killing blow.
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Re: Godzilla vs. Destoroyah (1995)

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eabaker wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 12:13 pm
szmigiel wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 12:06 pm the 2nd psychic was not needed at all.
The movie seems to be trying to attempt to address some kind of theme of Westernization of the younger generation, and she's part of that, but it never comes together into anything meaningful.
She's there as Miki's successor, so to speak. Miki says her job is done with Godzilla's passing, and then the other one reacts to Jr. taking his dad's place. If the Heisei series had continued, then her character might have become more meaningful.

However, I do consider this movie better than some of the predecessors. It could be better, yes, but it's more interesting and better written than BFTE and G vs SG. Would you really have wanted the Heisei series to go out on G vs SG?
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Re: Godzilla vs. Destoroyah (1995)

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edgaguirus wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 1:32 pm
eabaker wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 12:13 pm
szmigiel wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 12:06 pm the 2nd psychic was not needed at all.
The movie seems to be trying to attempt to address some kind of theme of Westernization of the younger generation, and she's part of that, but it never comes together into anything meaningful.
She's there as Miki's successor, so to speak. Miki says her job is done with Godzilla's passing, and then the other one reacts to Jr. taking his dad's place. If the Heisei series had continued, then her character might have become more meaningful.
From the outset, GvsD was conceived and written to be the end of the series, so there was never the possibility of her becoming more meaningful in any future installments. And even if there had been a likelihood of subsequent entries, a movie should still include a satisfying payoff to anything it introduces. Sure, she's Miki's successor; and, yes, through Junior, Meru and Junio, there is a thread of a new generation emerging to take the place of the previous one (a theme also touched on in Biollante), but the movie never really settles on anything it's doing with that notion. As an audience, we still experience the loss of Junior through Miki's eyes (and Godzilla's), not through Meru's.
However, I do consider this movie better than some of the predecessors. It could be better, yes, but it's more interesting and better written than BFTE and G vs SG. Would you really have wanted the Heisei series to go out on G vs SG?
Absolutely. I admire a lot of what the movies attempts, and regard Kazuki Omori as easily one of the most important and interesting contributors to the Godzilla franchise since the Showa era. Most of the time, I prefer a slightly messy movie that makes bold moves over something that succeeds more fully by setting unambitious goals. If anything, the areas in which this movie falls short are all the more frustrating because of the strength of those areas in which it succeeds.
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Re: Godzilla vs. Destoroyah (1995)

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Wow I haven’t been regularly active in years, I come back and some of you still have this tone like you’re all critically acclaimed writers :eh: lol Obviously the movies aren’t perfect and it’s fine to talk about issues with them but I just wish more energy on a freakin’ Godzilla forum was used to actually talk about your love for it instead of picking at it. Seriously just seems like some of y’all aren’t even that big of fans at times. :P Gives me a headache. X_X

Anyway I just rewatched it again a couple nights ago and absolutely love it, I see it in even higher regard than before actually! Godzilla and Destoroyah both look phenomenal and Junior ain’t too shabby either. Effects wise this, GvMGII, the Spacegodzilla final battle & Biollante are the high points of the era. I truly feel an immense amount of sadness and at the same time satisfaction and fulfillment with how they concluded the Heisei version of Godzilla’s arc and brought it full circle in such an unforgettable way. When Godzilla goes to Juniors body it really hits me, amazing how they were able evoke so much through suits and then Godzilla mortally wounding Destoroyah and getting to see him die before he does was incredible.

Of course the acting performances weren’t perfect, none of them ever are in these movies including the original film. (Bryan Cranston in G14’ and Ken Wantanabe in that + GKotM being exceptions) However these are some of the better and certainly more tolerable ones in the Japanese series, though I agree I wish more of it was from Miki’s perspective.

Overall I adore it. There’s a great sense of stakes and urgency, it all worked fine for me and was impactful. Takao Okawara and Kazuki Omori both outdid themselves along with this being some of the last and best work of Akira Ifukube.

Definitely does enough to be in my top 5 personally!
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Re: Godzilla vs. Destoroyah (1995)

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GodzillaDude wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 4:02 pm Wow I haven’t been regularly active in years, I come back and some of you still have this tone like you’re all critically acclaimed writers :eh: lol Obviously the movies aren’t perfect and it’s fine to talk about issues with them but I just wish more energy on a freakin’ Godzilla forum was used to actually talk about your love for it instead of picking at it. Seriously just seems like some of y’all aren’t even that big of fans at times. :P Gives me a headache. X_X
So... we're not allowed to dislike a movie.. because it's part of a series we're fans of?
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Re: Godzilla vs. Destoroyah (1995)

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GodzillaDude wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 4:02 pm Wow I haven’t been regularly active in years, I come back and some of you still have this tone like you’re all critically acclaimed writers :eh: lol Obviously the movies aren’t perfect and it’s fine to talk about issues with them but I just wish more energy on a freakin’ Godzilla forum was used to actually talk about your love for it instead of picking at it. Seriously just seems like some of y’all aren’t even that big of fans at times. :P Gives me a headache. X_X
Enjoy the movie all you want, but it's pretty lousy to open your post with this. We're literally just as entitled to dislike the film* as you are to like it, and I think it's inconsiderate and dismissive to criticize those of us who posted our critiques. ("critically acclaimed writers" because we're looking for more substantive qualities than you apparently are; "seems like some of you aren't even that big of fans," despite your later comment that the acting in all Japanese Godzilla movies is bad lol)

*And I don't even dislike it, I just don't think it's a well-made movie. I can enjoy the damn thing while pointing out its myriad flaws, especially when this entire discussion began with a user asking us what we would do to improve the film.

And if you look around, you'll see that many of us do talk about our love for these films. It just so happens that the films we love might not be the same ones you do, and furthermore, we might like and dislike these movies for different reasons than you do.

"Gives me a headache" :roll: Just plain rude.
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Re: Godzilla vs. Destoroyah (1995)

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Part of the fun of discussing art and entertainment is critiquing in. It's a direct indicator of how invested we are in this material!

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Terasawa wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 4:30 pm despite your later comment that the acting in all Japanese Godzilla movies is bad lol
Well, it's not like we could expect strong performances from people like Takashi Shimura, Yoshio Tsuchiya and Akira Kubo working at the heights of their careers, right?
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Re: Godzilla vs. Destoroyah (1995)

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Terasawa wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 4:30 pm
GodzillaDude wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 4:02 pm Wow I haven’t been regularly active in years, I come back and some of you still have this tone like you’re all critically acclaimed writers :eh: lol Obviously the movies aren’t perfect and it’s fine to talk about issues with them but I just wish more energy on a freakin’ Godzilla forum was used to actually talk about your love for it instead of picking at it. Seriously just seems like some of y’all aren’t even that big of fans at times. :P Gives me a headache. X_X
Enjoy the movie all you want, but it's pretty lousy to open your post with this. We're literally just as entitled to dislike the film* as you are to like it, and I think it's inconsiderate and dismissive to criticize those of us who posted our critiques. ("critically acclaimed writers" because we're looking for more substantive qualities than you apparently are; "seems like some of you aren't even that big of fans," despite your later comment that the acting in all Japanese Godzilla movies is bad lol)

*And I don't even dislike it, I just don't think it's a well-made movie. I can enjoy the damn thing while pointing out its myriad flaws, especially when this entire discussion began with a user asking us what we would do to improve the film.

And if you look around, you'll see that many of us do talk about our love for these films. It just so happens that the films we love might not be the same ones you do, and furthermore, we might like and dislike these movies for different reasons than you do.

"Gives me a headache" :roll: Just plain rude.
I never said ALL the acting in the franchise is bad, never said the word bad. Just that most aren’t perfect of course. Maybe it’s still left over impressions from when I was active on here before, I swear more than half of posts would be users complaining about this or that in every film. I guess I still have PTSD and maybe prejudged a little harshly seeing this.

I still think it’s not necessary to pick at it to this extent for qualities they weren’t even built to be successful for to begin with. I guess you’re right though there’s not much more to say if I love parts of it and you guys don’t like it. Can’t really force each other to change about it.

It’s just bewildering as a lifelong Godzilla fan since I was a baby that other fans wouldn’t at least get half that satisfaction or enjoyment out of it that makes it easier for me to look over some written inconsistencies throughout.

Apologies for coming in a little hot, there were just a certain portion of the fandom on here in the past that tended to be quite snobby and full of themselves. But yeah small headache lol not making that up. I’m guessing a majority of the general favorites around here are still a few of the Showa films for the most and GMK? I’ve been gone awhile lol And based on what I’ve seen others say the Heisei films still aren’t loved around here outside of Return. So still kinda fits with what I remember 🤷‍♂️ Just curious on what I need to be caught up on.
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