Page 2 of 3
Re: Heisei kaiju you'd like to see re-appear
Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2022 9:48 pm
by LegendZilla
Voyager wrote: ↑Tue Jun 28, 2022 9:47 pm
LegendZilla wrote: ↑Tue Jun 28, 2022 9:25 pm
Voyager wrote: ↑Tue Jun 28, 2022 8:28 pm
Which would need a Godzilla to die, which ultimately ties Dessy down to the G54 film.
Yeah.
Dessy could show up in literally any continuity in which the events of G54 occurred.
That's literally what I said.
New films will have to be tied down to the G54 film.
Some, but not necessarily all.
Re: Heisei kaiju you'd like to see re-appear
Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2022 10:31 pm
by Voyager
LegendZilla wrote: ↑Tue Jun 28, 2022 9:48 pm
Voyager wrote: ↑Tue Jun 28, 2022 9:47 pm
LegendZilla wrote: ↑Tue Jun 28, 2022 9:25 pm
Dessy could show up in literally any continuity in which the events of G54 occurred.
That's literally what I said.
New films will have to be tied down to the G54 film.
Some, but not necessarily all.
But you yourself said they’d needed to be connected to G54. How is that not a hinderence?
Re: Heisei kaiju you'd like to see re-appear
Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2022 10:58 pm
by LegendZilla
Voyager wrote: ↑Tue Jun 28, 2022 10:31 pm
LegendZilla wrote: ↑Tue Jun 28, 2022 9:48 pm
Voyager wrote: ↑Tue Jun 28, 2022 9:47 pm
That's literally what I said.
New films will have to be tied down to the G54 film.
Some, but not necessarily all.
But you yourself said they’d needed to be connected to G54. How is that not a hinderence?
You’re acting like continuity itself is a hinderance. If Toho decided to bring Dessy back, all they need to do is make a movie tied to G54 in some way shape or form. After they got it out of the way, they’ll just reboot again like they always do.
Re: Heisei kaiju you'd like to see re-appear
Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2022 11:11 pm
by Voyager
LegendZilla wrote: ↑Tue Jun 28, 2022 10:58 pm
Voyager wrote: ↑Tue Jun 28, 2022 10:31 pm
LegendZilla wrote: ↑Tue Jun 28, 2022 9:48 pm
Some, but not necessarily all.
But you yourself said they’d needed to be connected to G54. How is that not a hinderence?
You’re acting like continuity itself is a hinderance. If Toho decided to bring Dessy back, all they need to do is make a movie tied to G54 in some way shape or form. After they got it out of the way, they’ll just reboot again like they always do.
It is a hinderence. Filmmakers cant use Dessy unless they make a sequel to G54.
Re: Heisei kaiju you'd like to see re-appear
Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2022 11:31 pm
by LegendZilla
Voyager wrote: ↑Tue Jun 28, 2022 11:11 pm
LegendZilla wrote: ↑Tue Jun 28, 2022 10:58 pm
Voyager wrote: ↑Tue Jun 28, 2022 10:31 pm
But you yourself said they’d needed to be connected to G54. How is that not a hinderence?
You’re acting like continuity itself is a hinderance. If Toho decided to bring Dessy back, all they need to do is make a movie tied to G54 in some way shape or form. After they got it out of the way, they’ll just reboot again like they always do.
It is a hinderence. Filmmakers cant use Dessy unless they make a sequel to G54.
Why is it a big deal if they do?
Re: Heisei kaiju you'd like to see re-appear
Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2022 11:59 pm
by Voyager
It’s a hinderance to their visions.
Re: Heisei kaiju you'd like to see re-appear
Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2022 12:27 am
by LegendZilla
Voyager wrote: ↑Tue Jun 28, 2022 11:59 pm
It’s a hinderance to their visions.
Would someone hinder their own vision if they actually
wanted to make a sequel to G54 and use Dessy?
Re: Heisei kaiju you'd like to see re-appear
Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2022 12:29 am
by Voyager
LegendZilla wrote: ↑Wed Jun 29, 2022 12:27 am
Voyager wrote: ↑Tue Jun 28, 2022 11:59 pm
It’s a hinderance to their visions.
Would someone hinder their own vision if they actually
wanted to make a sequel to G54 and use Dessy?
No, but you're assuming people actually
want a sequel to G54.
Re: Heisei kaiju you'd like to see re-appear
Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2022 12:34 am
by LegendZilla
Voyager wrote: ↑Wed Jun 29, 2022 12:29 am
LegendZilla wrote: ↑Wed Jun 29, 2022 12:27 am
Voyager wrote: ↑Tue Jun 28, 2022 11:59 pm
It’s a hinderance to their visions.
Would someone hinder their own vision if they actually
wanted to make a sequel to G54 and use Dessy?
No, but you're assuming people actually
want a sequel to G54.
Who says there can't be any out there? Plus, you said you won't be opposed to a theoretical return to the Showa continuity, so why not bring Destoroyah back that way? Also, by your logic, Ghidorah shouldn't be able to be done right unless you make a direct sequel to GTTHM.
Re: Heisei kaiju you'd like to see re-appear
Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2022 1:21 am
by Voyager
LegendZilla wrote: ↑Wed Jun 29, 2022 12:34 am
Voyager wrote: ↑Wed Jun 29, 2022 12:29 am
LegendZilla wrote: ↑Wed Jun 29, 2022 12:27 am
Would someone hinder their own vision if they actually
wanted to make a sequel to G54 and use Dessy?
No, but you're assuming people actually
want a sequel to G54.
Who says there can't be any out there? Plus, you said you won't be opposed to a theoretical return to the Showa continuity, so why not bring Destoroyah back that way? Also, by your logic, Ghidorah shouldn't be able to be done right unless you make a direct sequel to GTTHM.
1. So? My fever dream does not affect reality.
2. My logic? What kind of fucked logic is that? Ghidorah isn’t tied down by origin like Dessy is.
Re: Heisei kaiju you'd like to see re-appear
Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2022 1:28 am
by LegendZilla
Voyager wrote: ↑Wed Jun 29, 2022 1:21 am
LegendZilla wrote: ↑Wed Jun 29, 2022 12:34 am
Voyager wrote: ↑Wed Jun 29, 2022 12:29 am
No, but you're assuming people actually
want a sequel to G54.
Who says there can't be any out there? Plus, you said you won't be opposed to a theoretical return to the Showa continuity, so why not bring Destoroyah back that way? Also, by your logic, Ghidorah shouldn't be able to be done right unless you make a direct sequel to GTTHM.
1. So? My fever dream does not affect reality.
2. My logic? What kind of skreeonked logic is that? Ghidorah isn’t tied down by origin like Dessy is.
Who says Dessy HAS to be tied to their origins? If Ghidorah can range from being a hostile planet-killing alien, future bio-weapon or even a guardian deity, most would have no qualms with changing any kaiju’s origins as long as they are themselves in form and function. For example, what if Toho decided to bring Dessy back, what if they made him some kind of demon?
Also, when you come to think of it, Dessy’s origin is not THAT different from Godzilla’s in that both are the result of the folly of man in the form of a super-weapon. I’m guessing the main difference is that the A-Bomb is a real life-weapon that has caused actual death and human misery whereas the OD is fictional.
Re: Heisei kaiju you'd like to see re-appear
Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2022 3:03 am
by Voyager
LegendZilla wrote: ↑Wed Jun 29, 2022 1:28 am
Voyager wrote: ↑Wed Jun 29, 2022 1:21 am
LegendZilla wrote: ↑Wed Jun 29, 2022 12:34 am
Who says there can't be any out there? Plus, you said you won't be opposed to a theoretical return to the Showa continuity, so why not bring Destoroyah back that way? Also, by your logic, Ghidorah shouldn't be able to be done right unless you make a direct sequel to GTTHM.
1. So? My fever dream does not affect reality.
2. My logic? What kind of skreeonked logic is that? Ghidorah isn’t tied down by origin like Dessy is.
Who says Dessy HAS to be tied to their origins? If Ghidorah can range from being a hostile planet-killing alien, future bio-weapon or even a guardian deity, most would have no qualms with changing any kaiju’s origins as long as they are themselves in form and function. For example, what if Toho decided to bring Dessy back, what if they made him some kind of demon?
Also, when you come to think of it, Dessy’s origin is not THAT different from Godzilla’s in that both are the result of the folly of man in the form of a super-weapon. I’m guessing the main difference is that the A-Bomb is a real life-weapon that has caused actual death and human misery whereas the OD is fictional.
1. You said that. You did. And Ivo-Goji.
LegendZilla wrote: Dessy could show up in literally any continuity in which the events of G54 occurred.
Ivo-goji wrote:as long as he embodies the concept of being a monster born from the weapon that killed Godzilla, his essence is unchanged.
Sure, Destoroyah’s form can be replicated, but can his function? Dessy’s function is pretty much explicitly tied to previous events. It’s just nature biting humans in the ass for their arrogance about killing Godzilla. And… let’s not have a demon-Dessy. I hate that she’s already got that reputation in the fandom, I don’t need it to be reality.
2. The difference is that Godzilla’s origin is tied to real life events, while Dessy’s is tied to Godzilla’s death. Destoroyah can not exist in a world without Godzilla or the Oxygen Destroyer.
Re: Heisei kaiju you'd like to see re-appear
Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2022 5:13 am
by Ivo-goji
Voyager wrote: ↑Tue Jun 28, 2022 8:28 pm
Ivo-goji wrote: ↑Tue Jun 28, 2022 6:32 pm, as long as he embodies the concept of being a monster born from the weapon that killed Godzilla, his essence is unchanged.
Which would need a Godzilla to die, which ultimately ties Dessy down to the G54 film.
Yeah.
You don't understand what I mean. I'm talking about the Oxygen Destroyer as a meta concept.
The events of G54 don't have to occur in a film's backstory for the audience to perceive the weapon's connotation as something that can kill Godzilla.
It's almost as recognizable to Godzilla lore as Superman's vulnerability to Kryptonite. No one has to
see Kryptonite kill Superman to know it can kill Superman.
Re: Heisei kaiju you'd like to see re-appear
Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2022 6:01 am
by Legion1979
Still, for Destroyah to exist the Oxygen Destroyer has to exist. And the Oxygen Destroyer exists to kill Godzilla. Bringing in that weapon any other way would tarnish its importance.
So you're pretty much retelling a good chunk of Godzilla vs Destroyah. Been there, done that.
It makes no sense for "Dessy" to come back.
Re: Heisei kaiju you'd like to see re-appear
Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2022 10:41 am
by Ivo-goji
Legion1979 wrote: ↑Wed Jun 29, 2022 6:01 am
Still, for Destroyah to exist the Oxygen Destroyer has to exist. And the Oxygen Destroyer exists to kill Godzilla. Bringing in that weapon any other way would tarnish its importance.
Unless you're saying the entire plot of G54 has to be retold in order for the Oxygen Destroyer to appear again in any capacity (which is nonsense and is a giant middle finger to the artistic freedom of this franchise) then that is not an actual response to my argument.
So you're pretty much retelling a good chunk of Godzilla vs Destroyah.
Godzilla vs Destoroyah didn't
tell the story of where the Oxygen Destroyer came from outside of about two minutes of exposition.
Re: Heisei kaiju you'd like to see re-appear
Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2022 10:59 am
by shadowgigan
Legion1979 wrote: ↑Wed Jun 29, 2022 6:01 am
Still, for Destroyah to exist the Oxygen Destroyer has to exist. And the Oxygen Destroyer exists to kill Godzilla. Bringing in that weapon any other way would tarnish its importance.
It was kind of tarnished in KOTM. I hope they didn't do that just to
NOT bring Dessy in. (Woah, holy double negative.)
Re: Heisei kaiju you'd like to see re-appear
Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2022 1:59 pm
by Ivo-goji
shadowgigan wrote: ↑Wed Jun 29, 2022 10:59 am
It was kind of tarnished in KOTM. I hope they didn't do that just to
NOT bring Dessy in. (Woah, holy double negative.)
See I hate to use KotM as an example because I really dislike how the OD is used in that movie.
But I'd rather defend its inclusion there than put up with the idea that G54 is so high and holy and sacred that characters and ideas particular to that film can never be touched again for fear of contaminating its glory. That mindset is poisonous to the life of the Godzilla series.
Re: Heisei kaiju you'd like to see re-appear
Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2022 2:06 pm
by eabaker
Ivo-goji wrote: ↑Wed Jun 29, 2022 1:59 pm
shadowgigan wrote: ↑Wed Jun 29, 2022 10:59 am
It was kind of tarnished in KOTM. I hope they didn't do that just to
NOT bring Dessy in. (Woah, holy double negative.)
See I hate to use KotM as an example because I really dislike how the OD is used in that movie.
But I'd rather defend its inclusion there than put up with the idea that G54 is so high and holy and sacred that characters and ideas particular to that film can never be touched again for fear of contaminating its glory. That mindset is poisonous to the life of the Godzilla series.
Then it's a good thing that nobody suggested anything of the kind.
Re: Heisei kaiju you'd like to see re-appear
Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2022 5:20 pm
by darthzilla99
Does Destroyah's origin necessarily have to be the Oxygen Destroyer? Or can his origin be tied to another plot made controversial super weapon used to attempt to kill Godzilla, only for it to create an abomination worse than Godzilla and now Godzilla is reluctantly the only hope?
Edit: Lots of IDW Godzilla comics have brought back Destroyah multiple times without the Oxygen Destroyer with good success and acclaim. One of the most praised idw comics is Godzilla cataclysm where he's the main antagonist kaiju .
Re: Heisei kaiju you'd like to see re-appear
Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2022 5:50 pm
by LegendZilla
^I think one too many people are thinking too hard into why (in their opinion) Dessy can't be brought back. Why can't more people think outside the box and come up with ways to work around whatever issues in place?