A New Entry into the Heisei Timeline..how would you?

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Re: A New Entry into the Heisei Timeline..how would you?

Post by miguelnuva »

Terasawa wrote:
miguelnuva wrote:Time travel can't work like that.
Snip
All that works fine but the film still goes out of it's way to Show Godzilla never disappeared. If Godzilla disappeared and stayed in the bering sea he should have not been affected by the ANEB correct?

What is the reasoning the he doesn't surface to challange Ghidorah or go attack a plant to recharge like before. We see twice he isn't sleeping.

Like I said the way you explain it makes sense and maybe that was the intent behind film but the way it plays out and I and others have seen and it seems supplemental material explains it is Godzilla didn't go anywhere.

It's starting to sound like a chicken or the egg scenario. Everyone remembers Godzilla, Godzilla has effected Japan but if Godzilla himself was asked about the events of RoG and Biollante he'd have a question mark?

Also the Futurians are doing two time jumps which in theory means them changing their timeline would be in the future. If you can't change the past but you alter the future then the only thing that should change is Ghidorah popping up in 1992.

I like the destiny can't be changed angle much better.
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Re: A New Entry into the Heisei Timeline..how would you?

Post by Terasawa »

miguelnuva wrote:All that works fine but the film still goes out of it's way to Show Godzilla never disappeared. If Godzilla disappeared and stayed in the bering sea he should have not been affected by the ANEB correct? ... We see twice he isn't sleeping.

It's starting to sound like a chicken or the egg scenario. Everyone remembers Godzilla, Godzilla has effected Japan but if Godzilla himself was asked about the events of RoG and Biollante he'd have a question mark?
I don't think you're recognizing that there are two Godzillas. (If you are, you're confusing when the second Goji shows up.) "Godzilla 1" is the one that appears in the '80s films; at the beginning of this movie, Goji-1 is subdued by the ANEB in the Sea of Japan. Because the Futurians move the dinosaur in 1944, they prevent its mutation into Godzilla, and Goji-1 ceases to exist at the moment the time travelers return to 1992. However, because of the 20th century's proliferation of nuclear energy, they transport the dinosaur to a location where it is exposed to radiation and mutated anyway. This is "Godzilla 2", who never fought Biollante, was never infected with ANEB, and never experienced any of the events of the 1980s films. Goji-2 did not exist from 1944 to 1992: presumably its last memory before appearing in 1992 was of being at Lagos Island as a dinosaur.

Goji-1 appears in GvKG only in a heat-sensitive photograph. Any time Godzilla appears after the time expedition to 1944, such as in Miki's vision, or when he attacks the Teiyo sub in the Bering Sea, it's Goji-2.

Your first statement, that the film shows Godzilla never disappeared, is incorrect. Wilson, Fujio, and later other characters specifically state that Godzilla disappeared. You've rationalized this as Godzilla evading JSDF detection, but that's not supported by the film. While the film doesn't visually show Godzilla disappear, said disappearance is confirmed by multiple characters.
What is the reasoning the he doesn't surface to challange Ghidorah or go attack a plant to recharge like before.
It would appear that Godzilla was unaware of Ghidorah prior to their encounter in Hokkaido. (Why should he be?) The time machine's computer display shows us that the time travelers leave and return to 1992 on July 6. Upon their return, King Ghidorah immediately appears over the Pacific (from Lagos), heading for Fukuoka. Godzilla (Goji-2), meanwhile, has just popped into existence way up by Alaska in the Bering Sea. The monsters are literally several thousand miles apart. It's a wonder that Miki was able to sense him all the way up there. :)

The date of the final battle is July 10 (as seen in MKG's cockpit), so working backwards, we can determine that Godzilla didn't encounter the Teiyo sub off Kamchatka until July 8. In other words, he hadn't gotten very far in two+ days. Godzilla makes landfall in Hokkaido the next day, at which point the Futurians are alerted to his presence. Wilson explicitly directs M-11 to send Ghidorah after Godzilla. All this gives the impression that Goji-2 was probably content to hang out in the Bering Sea had he not been disturbed by Shindo's sub or other nearby occurrences.

Additionally, Godzilla doesn't need to attack a power plant to recharge because this Godzilla wasn't infected by ANEB and therefore not in a weakened state. Even if he had been weak, he absorbs the Teiyo sub's payload.
Also the Futurians are doing two time jumps which in theory means them changing their timeline would be in the future. If you can't change the past but you alter the future then the only thing that should change is Ghidorah popping up in 1992.
Omori's idea is that if you want to change your future, you have to alter your present from a point in your past. What makes this so complicated to explain is that, throughout the film (and all time travel fiction), the terms "past", "present", and "future" lose their intrinsic meanings, because the words are dependent on the perspective of the person traveling through time. (For example, Emmy's native time is 2204, but at various points in the film, her present is any of 1944, 1992, and 2204. At one point you could say her present is either her past or her future, or that her future is her past, or... See how confusing that is?) So, to explain this, I'm going to declare the origin of any time trip as "Point A" and the destination of that trip as "Point B". A completed trip through time would follow the path of A to B to A. In the context of the film, Terasawa & crew leave Point A (1992) for Point B (1944) and thereafter return to Point A (1992).

To put these terms in Omori's concept: if you want to change your future, you must alter your present (Point A) from a point in your past (Point B). You follow? (I hope so.)

Wilson exists in 2204 and wants to create an immediate future wherein Japan doesn't corruptly govern or own the world. He reasons that he must prevent Japan's ascent to power in 1992; to do that, he must create a monster he can control, in place of Godzilla, in 1954 with which he'll wreck and extort 1992 Japan. This requires two trips, as you noted. The first of course is 2204 (Point A) to 1992 (Point B). From the perspectives of Wilson, Glenchiko, and Emmy, 1992 is now their present (Point A). So he instigates trip two, in which Emmy and M-11 and others successfully complete a loop from Point A (1992) to Point B (1944) and back. Wilson ultimately dies in 1992, but Emmy concludes the first trip (2204 to 1992 to 2204) when she goes to revive King Ghidorah. We find that Wilson succeeded in ending Japan's monopoly on the world: Mouruzu (the Westerner with Emmy in 2204 -- not sure how to Romanize his name) asks Emmy if she wants to revive KG "for that poor country" (Japan). (And just to be sure, I checked... the "poor" he uses is the Japanese word for "impoverished", not a word one would use to describe the world's wealthiest nation.)

So 2204 is changed because 1992 is changed because 1944 is changed. Would it have been simpler for the audience for Wilson to go from 2204 to 1944 and back? Yes, but it's a film about late-20th century Japan and its people, so they needed to travel to 1992 for the benefit of contemporary audiences. :P In-universe, without stopping in 1992, Wilson would have returned to 2204 to find King Ghidorah there, but no destruction having been wrought. He'd have to use KG to destroy 23rd century Japan; although Godzilla conceivably wouldn't be there to challenge, he might still face opposition in the form of the 23rd century people, who have access to the same technology he's using to control KG. (Even if he'd succeeded in doing that, the world would still be in pieces. Because he destroyed Japan in 1992, his 2204 presumably would have been mostly the same, except without the Japanese corporations and government in control. I agree that trying to figure out the extent of the changes to 2204 is confusing and best avoided.)
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Re: A New Entry into the Heisei Timeline..how would you?

Post by miguelnuva »

Terasawa wrote:
miguelnuva wrote:All that works fine but the film still goes out of it's way to Show Godzilla never disappeared. If Godzilla disappeared and stayed in the bering sea he should have not been affected by the ANEB correct? ... We see twice he isn't sleeping.

It's starting to sound like a chicken or the egg scenario. Everyone remembers Godzilla, Godzilla has effected Japan but if Godzilla himself was asked about the events of RoG and Biollante he'd have a question mark?
I don't think you're recognizing that there are two Godzillas. (If you are, you're confusing when the second Goji shows up.) "Godzilla 1" is the one that appears in the '80s films; at the beginning of this movie, Goji-1 is subdued by the ANEB in the Sea of Japan. Because the Futurians move the dinosaur in 1944, they prevent its mutation into Godzilla, and Goji-1 ceases to exist at the moment the time travelers return to 1992. However, because of the 20th century's proliferation of nuclear energy, they transport the dinosaur to a location where it is exposed to radiation and mutated anyway. This is "Godzilla 2", who never fought Biollante, was never infected with ANEB, and never experienced any of the events of the 1980s films. Goji-2 did not exist from 1944 to 1992: presumably its last memory before appearing in 1992 was of being at Lagos Island as a dinosaur.

Goji-1 appears in GvKG only in a heat-sensitive photograph. Any time Godzilla appears after the time expedition to 1944, such as in Miki's vision, or when he attacks the Teiyo sub in the Bering Sea, it's Goji-2.

Your first statement, that the film shows Godzilla never disappeared, is incorrect. Wilson, Fujio, and later other characters specifically state that Godzilla disappeared. You've rationalized this as Godzilla evading JSDF detection, but that's not supported by the film. While the film doesn't visually show Godzilla disappear, said disappearance is confirmed by multiple characters.
Ok, let me start by saying this was a fun discussion I had today and now I understand what you're saying thanks. I also want to say you do a better job explaining the film then the director did as 30 years later fans are still confused on what happened.

My thing before this post is the movie shows the dinosaur was mutated in the 70's which means G2 should have existed in the 70's when he was mutated. What did he do from the 70's to 92? Omori wants the film to show G2 pops up in 92 but then he goes and creates this backstory that G2 was born in the 70's and can actually fit into the original timeline of G1. Biollante and the memories of G1 also exist but G1 is gone and G2 is in his place.

I would have been simpler to just have 1 Heisei Godzilla and gone with you can't change histroy.
What is the reasoning the he doesn't surface to challange Ghidorah or go attack a plant to recharge like before.
It would appear that Godzilla was unaware of Ghidorah prior to their encounter in Hokkaido. (Why should he be?) The time machine's computer display shows us that the time travelers leave and return to 1992 on July 6. Upon their return, King Ghidorah immediately appears over the Pacific (from Lagos), heading for Fukuoka. Godzilla (Goji-2), meanwhile, has just popped into existence way up by Alaska in the Bering Sea. The monsters are literally several thousand miles apart. It's a wonder that Miki was able to sense him all the way up there. :)

The date of the final battle is July 10 (as seen in MKG's cockpit), so working backwards, we can determine that Godzilla didn't encounter the Teiyo sub off Kamchatka until July 8. In other words, he hadn't gotten very far in two+ days. Godzilla makes landfall in Hokkaido the next day, at which point the Futurians are alerted to his presence. Wilson explicitly directs M-11 to send Ghidorah after Godzilla. All this gives the impression that Goji-2 was probably content to hang out in the Bering Sea had he not been disturbed by Shindo's sub or other nearby occurrences.

Additionally, Godzilla doesn't need to attack a power plant to recharge because this Godzilla wasn't infected by ANEB and therefore not in a weakened state. Even if he had been weak, he absorbs the Teiyo sub's payload.
This question answered itself after you post but to answer the why should he be. G1 sensed Biollante and heard her calling him. G2 sensed Mothra and Baby about to be born and SpaceG was tracking Godzilla from Space. Toho kaiju can track each other from great distances.

Miki sensing G2 the way she did should be a plot hole as she met G1 and "bonded" to him. They should have had the dinosaur be mutated or had Miki mention Godzilla felt different.

All in all the time travel is poorly explained in the film especially when the easier path would be Godzilla was never erased. They set up so many cool things with Godzilla that could have explained everything but nope confuse everyone.
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Re: A New Entry into the Heisei Timeline..how would you?

Post by Terasawa »

miguelnuva wrote:Ok, let me start by saying this was a fun discussion I had today and now I understand what you're saying thanks. I also want to say you do a better job explaining the film then the director did as 30 years later fans are still confused on what happened.
I don't think Omori should get all the blame. He was clever to write the great suggestive line "The time warp theory differs from movies," only for the most prominent English translation of the film for more than 20 years (the dubbed version) to change it to "That's a very good question, Professor, but easy to answer." :roll: That's not to say that his explanation is perfect: some of it holds up to scrutiny while the rest is fridge logic. For all its faults, he constructed a model of time travel that was pretty unique. But I think, had the bulk of the western fandom been aware of the original dialogue (the aforementioned line and others throughout the film), there would be fewer disagreements over the time travel here. The keyword being "fewer": fans are gonna argue about this movie forever, regardless. :P

I only started to get it myself after reading a discussion between Zarm and eabaker (a discussion which, IIRC, was pretty much ignored). Tom Miller also deserves a ton of credit: he wrote that G-Fan essay in 1994. He must have Spock-like logic to correctly deduce all that from the copies that were available at the time (raw Japanese, various boots, or the official Chinese/English subtitled version that was being traded and sold). If anything I've written in this thread made sense, it's thanks mostly to these three gents.
My thing before this post is the movie shows the dinosaur was mutated in the 70's which means G2 should have existed in the 70's when he was mutated. What did he do from the 70's to 92? Omori wants the film to show G2 pops up in 92 but then he goes and creates this backstory that G2 was born in the 70's and can actually fit into the original timeline of G1. Biollante and the memories of G1 also exist but G1 is gone and G2 is in his place.
TBH I'm not sure where the 1970s date comes from except Keith's explanation. That time frame isn't corroborated (or contradicted) by the film's evidence.

Of the newspaper that notes the wrecked submarine: I don't see any dates (Arabic nor Japanese numerals) in any of the shots of the paper, although admittedly I didn't try to translate every visible line. (It's not like most viewers would have had a chance to read much more than what I've translated, anyway.) Terasawa doesn't mention a date in either Japanese or English versions, but he does pull the paper from his publisher's archives, so it's not intended to be very recent news. The little map in the paper labels Russia as the USSR, but that doesn't really nail down anything date-wise because the USSR hadn't yet dissolved when the film was made. Judging from the little evidence in the movie, although it's unlikely, it's not impossible that the sub wrecked circa 1990.

But more importantly, I think the implication is that the dinosaur was transported to a location where nuclear material could be found in 1992. It doesn't really matter how or when the nuclear energy got there, just that it was there in 1992. Case in point, before Terasawa even digs up the article about the submarine, Emmy puts forth several possibilities for the existence of nuclear energy in that location: "Maybe there's sunken battleships with nuclear missiles. Or there could be nuclear waste there." Glenchiko echoes this, saying "Unlike our age, in the 20th century there seems to be nuclear power everywhere."

My interpretation is that the dinosaur popped into existence in the Bering Sea in 1992 and was immediately exposed to immense radiation, enough to turn it into Godzilla. On the other hand, Ghidorah's origin can't have worked that way. How were the Dorats mutated if the Bikini bomb was detonated between 1944 and 1992? Perhaps, as Tom Miller says, "changes made via time travel affect only those persons and things directly altered, there is no ripple effect." But that's a discussion for another time. :dizzy:
This question answered itself after you post but to answer the why should he be. G1 sensed Biollante and heard her calling him. G2 sensed Mothra and Baby about to be born and SpaceG was tracking Godzilla from Space. Toho kaiju can track each other from great distances.

Miki sensing G2 the way she did should be a plot hole as she met G1 and "bonded" to him. They should have had the dinosaur be mutated or had Miki mention Godzilla felt different.
1) Except for Mothra, all the kaiju you mentioned have some sort of genetic or species connection to Godzilla which King Ghidorah does not have. It needs also be noted that Biollante and BabyGodzilla called out telepathically and Godzilla was able to "hear" them, not necessarily the other way around.

Mothra is shown to have telepathic abilities with at least the Cosmos and likely Battra. What isn't so certain in Godzilla vs Mothra is whether or not Godzilla "senses" Mothra and/or Battra. I don't think he does. The first monster battle takes place in the Pacific, somewhere near the spot that Godzilla had been established prior. We can chalk this up to coincidence/dramatic convenience since the movie doesn't hint that Godzilla is tracking Mothra's egg. Mothra goes to Tokyo to rescue the Cosmos and, shortly thereafter, Godzilla appears from Mt. Fuji (which was already near eruption). The relative proximity of these locations is more convenience. And Godzilla was already well on his way to Yokohama when Mothra & Battra take their battle there. Godzilla's movements don't seem to be influenced by the other monsters'.

2) Miki was able to sense Goji-1 in Mt. Mihara before they'd "met" in Godzilla vs Biollante. And when describing her vision of Goji-2 to Terasawa in GvKG, she mentions the similarity to the previous Mt. Mihara event. Also, at Lagos, Miki was able to confirm the dinosaur was the animal that became Godzilla (probably through psychic means -- she's not a paleontologist), and she'd meet the dinosaur face-to-face before it was transported away.
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Re: A New Entry into the Heisei Timeline..how would you?

Post by LegendZilla »

I know that the idea's been done to death, but I think the arrival of the true King Ghidorah from outer space should be the main plot. Also, I think that maybe Miki Saegusa should have a daughter who did not inherit her powers. She has a conflict with said daughter, who desires a normal life with nothing to do with Godzilla.

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Re: A New Entry into the Heisei Timeline..how would you?

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Picking up where the events of Godzilla vs Destoroyah left off would be a good way to revitalize the Heisei series. We can follow the exploits of a fully grown Godzilla Jr. as he has to battle new threats to the planet, and in doing so, assume the mantle of The King of the Monsters.
Given the nature of his drastic size and power increase, I would conceptualize Junior as standing around 110-120 meters in stature to better match up against 100+ meter daikaiju adversaries. And by some fluke of absorbing Heisei G's meltdown, the adult Junior somehow inherited all of the former's fighting experience.


I'd also bring back concepts/characters used in earlier Heisei films or introduce concept ideas that never made it to the big screen. Battra would make a comeback, as would the psychic fern from Godzilla vs Mechagodzilla II.
The Berserk idea would be awesome to see put into action, as would many concept designs and story ideas for the various Heisei G-films that didn't make it past the drawing boards. They'd be a sight to behold now, especially with today's cutting edge FX.





Furthermore the various kaiju fights would be a lot of visceral and organic, with the combatants also engaging in actual physical combat in addition to firing their beams at each other.
And eventually the arrival of a live action Bagan would be a superb way for a Heisei continuation to end on a high note.
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Re: A New Entry into the Heisei Timeline..how would you?

Post by miguelnuva »

Movie 1: JR teams up with Rodan who has returned due to Godzilla's Meltdown and the returning Mothra to battle the Space faring King Ghidorah.

Movie 2: Biollante returns and the 4 kaiju battle Bagan. Bagan overwhelms them and eventually JR becomes Super Godzilla and wins.
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Re: A New Entry into the Heisei Timeline..how would you?

Post by Major sssspielberg! »

Godzilla vs Destroyah gets retconned hard by a new batch of Futurians. They just redo their plot from Godzilla vs Kong Ghidorah but more complicated and nonsensical so the fanbase can argue harder about how much sense it does or doesn't make.
Also instead of crying Godzilla projectile vomits on Shindo's son due to crippling anxiety.
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Re: A New Entry into the Heisei Timeline..how would you?

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Strife wrote: Sat Feb 27, 2021 1:19 am Picking up where the events of Godzilla vs Destoroyah left off would be a good way to revitalize the Heisei series. We can follow the exploits of a fully grown Godzilla Jr. as he has to battle new threats to the planet, and in doing so, assume the mantle of The King of the Monsters.
Given the nature of his drastic size and power increase, I would conceptualize Junior as standing around 110-120 meters in stature to better match up against 100+ meter daikaiju adversaries. And by some fluke of absorbing Heisei G's meltdown, the adult Junior somehow inherited all of the former's fighting experience.


I'd also bring back concepts/characters used in earlier Heisei films or introduce concept ideas that never made it to the big screen. Battra would make a comeback, as would the psychic fern from Godzilla vs Mechagodzilla II.
The Berserk idea would be awesome to see put into action, as would many concept designs and story ideas for the various Heisei G-films that didn't make it past the drawing boards. They'd be a sight to behold now, especially with today's cutting edge FX.

Furthermore the various kaiju fights would be a lot of visceral and organic, with the combatants also engaging in actual physical combat in addition to firing their beams at each other.
And eventually the arrival of a live action Bagan would be a superb way for a Heisei continuation to end on a high note.
How would you feel if Godzilla Junior developed full-fledged psychic powers?

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Re: A New Entry into the Heisei Timeline..how would you?

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LegendZilla wrote: Sat Feb 27, 2021 7:13 am
How would you feel if Godzilla Junior developed full-fledged psychic powers?
I'm open to that idea. As long as it's properly set up, executed, and not used in a Deus Ex Machina type fashion.

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Re: A New Entry into the Heisei Timeline..how would you?

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Strife wrote: Sat Feb 27, 2021 11:00 am
LegendZilla wrote: Sat Feb 27, 2021 7:13 am
How would you feel if Godzilla Junior developed full-fledged psychic powers?
I'm open to that idea. As long as it's properly set up, executed, and not used in a Deus Ex Machina type fashion.
I imagine that they could build it up over time. Maybe early on, the Cosmos could state that psychic abilities is something dormant within all living things.
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Re: A New Entry into the Heisei Timeline..how would you?

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Continue where Godzilla vs. Destoryah. I have Godzilla junior go through a heros journey type story line and development. Yeah he knows how to shoot his atomic breath, but I would have him have to learn how to master his abilities like the Atomic pulse and the spiral ray. I would have the plot line be that the cosmos and Mothra want him to be the new protector of earth since he's had exposure to humans he's not as antagonistic. I would still have him attack nuclear power plants when he needs food but he tries to roar and scare off civilians first before attacking the plant (you can have human plot lines where one side says he just as dangerous as the previous Godzilla while others like Miki argue he need nuclear energy to eat and that he doesn't harm humans as well as arguing that he saves humanity from other threats). I would also bring back Battra (or an offspring of Battra) because he sees this Godzilla as a nuclear abomination at first and hates the fact Earth and the Cosmos have picked Godzilla as it's new guardian (also if an offspring have a revenge agenda as well). Eventually they have to john forces against a greater threat. Also, have either Space Godzilla, Destoryah, and or a new Mechagodzilla return to give him PTSD and have him learn to overcome past fears to win.

I know this humanizes Godzilla, but we have never had a traditional hero's journey type story line for Godzilla. We have never seen a situation where Godzilla has to learn how to use his powers or see an inexperienced Godzilla in battle learning to fight (Yeah we had Minya with Son of Godzilla and Godzilla's Revenge, but I feel we haven't seen this type of character driven story for Godzilla himself to it's full potential).
GVK: TNE is a modern day 70s Showa Godzilla movie. Being a massive budget modern blockbuster CGI film instead of traditional 70s tokusatsu techniques doesn't change that. Fight me.

Anguirus and Godzilla being friends in the Showa series is cannon. Deal with it.

Monsterverse is not similar to either MCU nor Bayformers just because all three are big budget CGI blockbuster franchises.

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Re: A New Entry into the Heisei Timeline..how would you?

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darthzilla99 wrote: Sat Feb 27, 2021 7:28 pm Continue where Godzilla vs. Destoryah. I have Godzilla junior go through a heros journey type story line and development. Yeah he knows how to shoot his atomic breath, but I would have him have to learn how to master his abilities like the Atomic pulse and the spiral ray. I would have the plot line be that the cosmos and Mothra want him to be the new protector of earth since he's had exposure to humans he's not as antagonistic. I would still have him attack nuclear power plants when he needs food but he tries to roar and scare off civilians first before attacking the plant (you can have human plot lines where one side says he just as dangerous as the previous Godzilla while others like Miki argue he need nuclear energy to eat and that he doesn't harm humans as well as arguing that he saves humanity from other threats). I would also bring back Battra (or an offspring of Battra) because he sees this Godzilla as a nuclear abomination at first and hates the fact Earth and the Cosmos have picked Godzilla as it's new guardian (also if an offspring have a revenge agenda as well). Eventually they have to john forces against a greater threat. Also, have either Space Godzilla, Destoryah, and or a new Mechagodzilla return to give him PTSD and have him learn to overcome past fears to win.

I know this humanizes Godzilla, but we have never had a traditional hero's journey type story line for Godzilla. We have never seen a situation where Godzilla has to learn how to use his powers or see an inexperienced Godzilla in battle learning to fight (Yeah we had Minya with Son of Godzilla and Godzilla's Revenge, but I feel we haven't seen this type of character driven story for Godzilla himself to it's full potential).
Do you imagine Miki will have children by this point?

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Re: A New Entry into the Heisei Timeline..how would you?

Post by darthzilla99 »

LegendZilla wrote: Sat Feb 27, 2021 8:23 pm
Do you imagine Miki will have children by this point?
[/quote]




I had some thoughts. I was thinking two children. Since Journalists, soldiers, and scientists are the common protagonists, I was thinking she has a son who is a musician and a school teacher daughter. The musician uses his psychic powers in his concerts to make more money and enhance the shows as well as using the kaiju as inspiration for his songs (which Miki strongly disapproves to put it lightly, both his abusing his powers for entertainment and for making kaiju music in bad taste). The school teacher hates Godzilla and while she does have psychic powers to help children, she disapproves of her Mother's pro-Godzilla stance. The musician would be my main protagonist. I would have him go through a character arc of learning to legitimately becoming Pro-Godzilla and eventually starts creating music that tries to show the good things of Godzilla. Also, I feel Miki would leave G-Force and start a non-profit organization trying to study kaiju and inform the public about the good that Godzilla does.
GVK: TNE is a modern day 70s Showa Godzilla movie. Being a massive budget modern blockbuster CGI film instead of traditional 70s tokusatsu techniques doesn't change that. Fight me.

Anguirus and Godzilla being friends in the Showa series is cannon. Deal with it.

Monsterverse is not similar to either MCU nor Bayformers just because all three are big budget CGI blockbuster franchises.

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Re: A New Entry into the Heisei Timeline..how would you?

Post by miguelnuva »

darthzilla99 wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 7:16 pm
LegendZilla wrote: Sat Feb 27, 2021 8:23 pm
Do you imagine Miki will have children by this point?



I had some thoughts. I was thinking two children. Since Journalists, soldiers, and scientists are the common protagonists, I was thinking she has a son who is a musician and a school teacher daughter. The musician uses his psychic powers in his concerts to make more money and enhance the shows as well as using the kaiju as inspiration for his songs (which Miki strongly disapproves to put it lightly, both his abusing his powers for entertainment and for making kaiju music in bad taste). The school teacher hates Godzilla and while she does have psychic powers to help children, she disapproves of her Mother's pro-Godzilla stance. The musician would be my main protagonist. I would have him go through a character arc of learning to legitimately becoming Pro-Godzilla and eventually starts creating music that tries to show the good things of Godzilla. Also, I feel Miki would leave G-Force and start a non-profit organization trying to study kaiju and inform the public about the good that Godzilla does.
[/quote]

Why would Mikki's kids be anti-Godzilla. Jr becomes a 70's style Godzilla due to his interaction with people, or at least that was a long standing rumor.
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Re: A New Entry into the Heisei Timeline..how would you?

Post by LegendZilla »

^I imagine that maybe Miki's psychic abilities would skip a generation if she were to have a child. If they wait a couple more years to do another Heisei entry by let's say 2030, Megumi Odaka would be old enough to have grandchildren by then. I imagine that she would have a daughter who did not inherit her psychic abilities, but said daughter has a kid of her own who does have them.
Last edited by LegendZilla on Sun Feb 28, 2021 11:13 pm, edited 3 times in total.

darthzilla99
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Re: A New Entry into the Heisei Timeline..how would you?

Post by darthzilla99 »

miguelnuva wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 9:23 pm
darthzilla99 wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 7:16 pm
LegendZilla wrote: Sat Feb 27, 2021 8:23 pm
Do you imagine Miki will have children by this point?



I had some thoughts. I was thinking two children. Since Journalists, soldiers, and scientists are the common protagonists, I was thinking she has a son who is a musician and a school teacher daughter. The musician uses his psychic powers in his concerts to make more money and enhance the shows as well as using the kaiju as inspiration for his songs (which Miki strongly disapproves to put it lightly, both his abusing his powers for entertainment and for making kaiju music in bad taste). The school teacher hates Godzilla and while she does have psychic powers to help children, she disapproves of her Mother's pro-Godzilla stance. The musician would be my main protagonist. I would have him go through a character arc of learning to legitimately becoming Pro-Godzilla and eventually starts creating music that tries to show the good things of Godzilla. Also, I feel Miki would leave G-Force and start a non-profit organization trying to study kaiju and inform the public about the good that Godzilla does.
Why would Mikki's kids be anti-Godzilla. Jr becomes a 70's style Godzilla due to his interaction with people, or at least that was a long standing rumor.
[/quote]


A few things. First, in my ideas I have put up, the first movie would be the first time Godzilla junior has fought another kaiju since destoroyah so he has not had a real chance to prove to the public he is a good kaiju. Hence this is a relatively inexperienced fighter type storyline for Godzilla. Second, children don't always have the same ideology and beliefs as their parents even if their parents try to install these beliefs. Most of the history books in the heisei timeline would paint all kaiju negatively since every kaiju in the Heisei timeline rampaged through a city at some point (even mothra destroyed warships and parts of tokyo as a larva). Even when Godzilla saved japan from King Ghidorah and Space Godzilla, the history books would likely paint those scenarios as lesser of two evils at past.
GVK: TNE is a modern day 70s Showa Godzilla movie. Being a massive budget modern blockbuster CGI film instead of traditional 70s tokusatsu techniques doesn't change that. Fight me.

Anguirus and Godzilla being friends in the Showa series is cannon. Deal with it.

Monsterverse is not similar to either MCU nor Bayformers just because all three are big budget CGI blockbuster franchises.

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Re: A New Entry into the Heisei Timeline..how would you?

Post by Tohosaurus »

Thinking of this now as we're in the 2020s, I think the obvious continuation is following Jr (though henceforth simply referred to as Godzilla) and his adventures as we followed the prior Godzilla from 84-95. Rather than setting a movie in the late-90s, 2000s, or 2010s, I would just set the first movie in the present. The new Godzilla is generally a neutral party rather than overtly heroic or villainous, which makes a range of the various scrapped scripts logical fits to base new movies off of:

Godzilla vs Gargantuas - I think they'd probably need to drop the Frankenstein origin, but Godzilla and Anguirus go up against a couple of Gargantuas.
Godzilla vs Redmoon - The basic plot actually sounds like the bones of a good story.
Godzilla vs Orochi - This more mythology-based film could feature some of the more supernatural monsters like King Caesar, Mothra, etc. A larger scale film.
Godzilla Against Hedorah - Essentially a modernized remake of the original film.
Godzilla vs M - The core premise is good enough that I am almost surprised something like it hasn't been done yet.
Godzilla vs Bagan - After losing to but surviving its battle(s) with Mothra, the as-powerful-as-ever Bagan finally defeats Mothra and the mech noted below but must go up against Godzilla, Mothra Leo, and Zone Fighter. Bagan receives support from Gigan

Also in the universe and featured occasionally in movies would be some kind of mech. Mechagodzilla and MOGUERA are destroyed, but it's difficult to believe they'd have no great mech to continue defending Japan/Earth. Maybe bring back the Asuka Fortress concept, Mechanikong, or something else.

Additionally, a couple of spin-offs could be successful and tie into the series as well with crossovers as appropriate:

Mothra vs Bagan (ends with Bagan being an overwhelming power Heisei Mothra cannot defeat and Bagan retreats to fight another day - in the grand crossover outlined above.
Zone Fighter - Introduce a modern Zone Fighter into the universe and it could feature Godzilla or Mothra to boost interest in the film.

All that takes us a good decade out so I'll stop there.
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Re: A New Entry into the Heisei Timeline..how would you?

Post by godjacob »

Basically the easiest way would be to have it set in more contemporary times, with Jr. now established as the new Godzilla. A bit friendly (Or least less hostile) than his father was, and establish the changes to the world since the events of Godzilla vs. Destoroyah. Maybe Miki is dealing with the loss of her psychic powers, maybe she has a kid developing his/her own psychic abilities. Maybe how G-Force has evolved (Perhaps in a period of peace they've retired the mecha units) and maybe talk of other countries developing their own anti-Kaiju protection agencies. Showing the global effect of the Heisei events like Godzilla 84 touched upon. Maybe have the psychic kid meet the Cosmos to touch upon what Mothra is doing or has done since. Have a new original monster for Godzilla to fight so he can cement himself as the new King of the Monsters.

There is a lot that could be done with this timeline.
Last edited by godjacob on Sun Apr 04, 2021 9:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: A New Entry into the Heisei Timeline..how would you?

Post by Erimaki Anguirus »

I would want a solo film with Godzilla Junior attacking Tokyo. Maybe he blames the people for his fathers death?!

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