tymon wrote:Ranking the 90's films is like trying to rank the last five dumps I took. GvsKG has that awful time-traveling plot that I simply can't sit through nowadays, GvsM & GvsSG obviously suck, and GvsD is one of the most overrated films in the franchise and is super-dull IMO. Which leaves GvsMG - not a good movie, but it's not as bad as the others.
The eighties films on the other hand are pretty damn good.
You know I've been on this forum for a good while now, but before that when I first started posting on here I was under the impression that the Heisei series was the most praised and well liked among fans. Eventually though time went on and now it's been obvious for awhile that the era obviously gets a lot of hate. Godzilla vs. King Ghidorah is one of my favorite Godzilla films of all time for many reasons (that you can read by following one of the links below) and I even admit the time-traveling plot was off and executed rather poorly, but I actually ended up getting past it pretty quickly.
i reflect the opinons of several users i think when i say that it felt like two halves of a movie, the first boring build up, the second some of the best action of the franchise.
:mechagodzilla: "I'm on a drug called Charlie Sheen" ~ Charlie Sheen
Gojira is:Very Hiroshima®
axnyslie wrote:I read that too quickly I though you said land MINES. Yes they are still out there so step lightly!
Well, I've read through that handbook for the recently deceased. It says: 'live people ignore the strange and unusual. I, myself, am strange and unusual. ~ Lydia Deetz
sir isaac newton is the deadliest son - of - a - bitch in space.
three wrote:i reflect the opinons of several users i think when i say that it felt like two halves of a movie, the first boring build up, the second some of the best action of the franchise.
I agree when it comes to being some of the best monster action of the franchise. I thought both of the main battles were paced fairly well and both had some memorable moments. I didn't find any of it really boring however.
Last edited by GodzillaDude on Wed May 22, 2013 3:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Yeah, some of GvsKG is certainly ridiculous, but I never find it boring for even a second.
Tokyo, a smoldering memorial to the unknown, an unknown which at this very moment still prevails and could at any time lash out with its terrible destruction anywhere else in the world.
Ghidorah's head being blown off is one of my favorite film moments of all time in ANY movie, bar none. Godzilla absolutely putting the hurt on one of his worst enemies. I found some bits tedious, but overall i think it's a great film and M11 is so bad he's great.
:mechagodzilla: "I'm on a drug called Charlie Sheen" ~ Charlie Sheen
Gojira is:Very Hiroshima®
axnyslie wrote:I read that too quickly I though you said land MINES. Yes they are still out there so step lightly!
Well, I've read through that handbook for the recently deceased. It says: 'live people ignore the strange and unusual. I, myself, am strange and unusual. ~ Lydia Deetz
sir isaac newton is the deadliest son - of - a - bitch in space.
I recently decided what the hell and got Sony's Ghidorah/Mothra DVD. (The picture looks phenomenal; shame about the dub-only and 4:3 thing.) I also had the chance to watch King Ghidorah in Japanese, so overall my feelings toward this set of films has changed. The only one I haven't seen yet is Godzilla (1984), but my thoughts on the rest are as follows:
1. Godzilla vs. King Ghidorah -- Used to not be crazy about this one, but now I think it might broach my top five for the entire franchise. There's a sense of both fun and heart to this movie later ones don't touch, and it feels like it tackles some weightier ideas, even if it doesn't always follow through. On a surface level, it also totally works as a modern day Showa re-imagining the same way Godzilla 2000 does, which is another series favorite of mine. Were the ending of this altered slightly to feel more conclusive, I have the feeling King Ghidorah, Biollante and G-1984 would've gone down as a very fondly remembered trilogy. I also love Ifukube's soundtrack in this one. That updated Ghidorah theme really seals the deal.
2. Godzilla vs. Biollante -- Not much to say, actually. It's very flawed, but works by way of its originality. It's a f*cking crime they cut that scene where Biollante causes all those flowers to bloom around Godzilla though. That's the kind of stuff that could really have elevated it to the level I think it was aiming for. On the negative side, I'm not a fan of its belabored, '50s B-movie, anti-science message. Also, watch this with the dub track so you don't have to put up with nonsense like "Kiss you, guys," and "This. Isn't. A. Beauty pageant!"
3. Godzilla vs. Destoroyah -- No frills. No characters. Loads of missed potential. But you know what? Destroyah has a great origin, and I'll be damned if this isn't at least a fun and exciting conclusion. Indefensible on many, many levels, Destoroyah still comes out as one of the most fun movies in the franchise. On a personal level, I might put this above Biollante.
4. Godzilla vs. Mothra -- Like Ghidorah, I used to kind of loathe it. Now I'd hold it as my solid "middle of the road" Godzilla movie. There's nothing really wrong with it, but also little to recommend it. It hits all the right points to be enjoyable -- likable characters, good action, good music -- but doesn't offer anything new. On a list of series favorites, I'd basically consider anything below this to be something I found deeply flawed. Still, though, grab a bag of popcorn or a drink and have a good time. One thing to actually recommend this on: Some of the best miniature work outside of Godzilla 2000. That was a surprise.
5. Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla -- The soundtrack is great. The return of Minilla to the franchise is great. Everything else ... eh. This one really overstays its welcome. The fights are dull, Mechagodzilla is patently ridiculous, even for this universe, and who the audience should be invested in feels unintentionally unclear. The characters are also more cartoonish than ever. It's still enjoyable, but this is past my personal Mothra threshold.
6. Godzilla vs. Spacegodzilla -- I don't totally hate it. The last fight is pretty exciting when watched on its own, and Yuuki is one of the best military characters the series has seen. But ooooh my god, does this one drag. The asteroid scene looks atrocious. Moguera somehow manages to out-ridiculous Mechagodzilla. Mostly, though, there's just no reason a movie called Godzilla vs. Spacegodzilla should be this boring.
My .05 on the series.
Last edited by Rodan on Sat Jun 22, 2013 3:44 pm, edited 5 times in total.
Nice to see someone else really likes Godzilla vs. King Ghidorah, I actually feel as though this one is somewhat underrated these days given how much people love to bash the script.
And I totally agree with you on the missed potential in Destoroyah. I would have loved to have seen what the film would have looked like if Omori directed instead of Okawara, instead of being delegated solely to screenwriting duties.
Kaiser wrote:Nice to see someone else really likes Godzilla vs. King Ghidorah, I actually feel as though this one is somewhat underrated these days given how much people love to bash the script.
Okay, on a logical level the script is absolutely full of holes.
Doesn't matter though. The movie is totally fun, uses the franchise's established tropes to its advantage, and the things that do work on an emotional level (pretty much everything with Shindo and Godzilla) really work, or at least almost work to the extent that they still improve the film. For all its glaring flaws, you can't ignore the fact that it's both absolutely your average Godzilla movie/absolutely more than your average Godzilla movie at the same time. Granted, I'm watching it twenty years after it came out, but compared to what came afterward, it feels really refreshing.
Also, while this one has plenty of logical problems, I'd take those over the structural problems that plague later Heisei and Millenium films any day. In a Godzilla movie, you can ignore that the time travel doesn't make sense. You can't ignore things like not knowing who to root for or the climax being in the wrong place.
^ yep. i love harkening back to see some of the older films where it appeared that the heart of the entire crew was there. didn't matter to me about how the time travel had issues, didn't matter about the effects not being as flashy as newer movies, everything i look for in a Godzilla flick was present in Ghidorah. of the 90's films, only that and MechaGodzilla stood out to me as stellar because of the fights, score, characters, and plot (i don't mean other films weren't good just that those two hit on all the notes for me).
:mechagodzilla: "I'm on a drug called Charlie Sheen" ~ Charlie Sheen
Gojira is:Very Hiroshima®
axnyslie wrote:I read that too quickly I though you said land MINES. Yes they are still out there so step lightly!
Well, I've read through that handbook for the recently deceased. It says: 'live people ignore the strange and unusual. I, myself, am strange and unusual. ~ Lydia Deetz
sir isaac newton is the deadliest son - of - a - bitch in space.
Godzilla vs Biollante
Godzilla 1985
Godzilla vs King Ghidorah (time travel confusion aside)
Godzilla vs Mechagodzilla (1993)
Godzilla vs Destroyer
Godzilla vs Mothra (1992)
Godzilla vs Space(Super)Godzilla
I really don't understand the love that Godzilla 1985-RoG has been receiving here. Although the Heisei series was lackluster overall and the film doesn't have much competition in that regard, I believe at best this film is only middle ground. Besides its music and dark atmosphere, RoG has little else going for it. It is a film with weak characters, outdated special effects, an unattractive Godzilla design, and a dull story. Japan was ready for Godzilla's return and Toho should have done a better job. The film's lukewarm success, although popularity is not always the best standard for quality, probably shows how RoG isn't the good film that some people on TK would have you believe. The best things we got from this film is the soundtrack and Godzilla and Raymond Burr's return.
kamilleblu wrote:I really don't understand the love that Godzilla 1985-RoG has been receiving here. Although the Heisei series was lackluster overall and the film doesn't have much competition in that regard, I believe at best this film is only middle ground. Besides its music and dark atmosphere, RoG has little else going for it. It is a film with weak characters, outdated special effects, an unattractive Godzilla design, and a dull story. Japan was ready for Godzilla's return and Toho should have done a better job. The film's lukewarm success, although popularity is not always the best standard for quality, probably shows how RoG isn't the good film that some people on TK would have you believe. The best things we got from this film is the soundtrack and Godzilla and Raymond Burr's return.
i thought it was a pretty good movie. i've always looked at it as a retelling of a classic story which never really gets old. the characters didn't stick out but that's ok, because the focus was Godzilla's return. the plot was simple but again: it's a modern adaptation of the same Godzilla story from the 50's. the score was good and the atmosphere really drove home the feeling of the movie. i wouldn't say it's a 9 star Godzilla flick, but it's in my top ten and at best an 8 but no worse than a 7. a pretty good film in my opinion.
also: can you name something particularly bad about it? not just that it was average, but bad?
:mechagodzilla: "I'm on a drug called Charlie Sheen" ~ Charlie Sheen
Gojira is:Very Hiroshima®
axnyslie wrote:I read that too quickly I though you said land MINES. Yes they are still out there so step lightly!
Well, I've read through that handbook for the recently deceased. It says: 'live people ignore the strange and unusual. I, myself, am strange and unusual. ~ Lydia Deetz
sir isaac newton is the deadliest son - of - a - bitch in space.
The idea (returning Godzilla to his dark roots) of Return sounds good on paper, however, it was executed poorly. Compared to the original(s), Return looks pretty bad. It might have been a retelling, but it could have been much better. Since the characters aren't all too interesting, then things fall upon Godzilla to take up the slack. Unfortunately, we get an unattractive suit lumbering around. The Godzilla of this film is definitely not the terrible giant that ravaged Tokyo back in 1954 (1956). So in the end, we have weak characters carrying a dull story "supported" by outdated special effects.
This is probably a complaint about the evolution of special effects in Godzilla films in general, and although the effects had improved since Terror of Mechagodzilla, but Return's special effects are unacceptable given the update in special effects by the point of its release. Toho had no excuse for its, at times, awful special effects featured in the Heisei series. They had both the audience's desire for Godzilla and the funds to make great movies, however, they merely exploited a country's nostalgia for the works of the past.
The idea (returning Godzilla to his dark roots) of Return sounds good on paper, however, it was executed poorly. Compared to the original(s), Return looks pretty bad. It might have been a retelling, but it could have been much better. Since the characters aren't all too interesting, then things fall upon Godzilla to take up the slack. Unfortunately, we get an unattractive suit lumbering around. The Godzilla of this film is definitely not the terrible giant that ravaged Tokyo back in 1954 (1956). So in the end, we have weak characters carrying a dull story "supported" by outdated special effects.
This is probably a complaint about the evolution of special effects in Godzilla films in general, and although the effects had improved since Terror of Mechagodzilla, but Return's special effects are unacceptable given the update in special effects by the point of its release. Toho had no excuse for its, at times, awful special effects featured in the Heisei series. They had both the audience's desire for Godzilla and the funds to make great movies, however, they merely exploited a country's nostalgia for the works of the past.
nothing really "falls" on Godzilla to pick up the slack. the characters are supposed to pick up the slack so to speak, Godzilla is unquestionably the star of the show. i found the suspense building up to when he finally attacks Tokyo to be very well done, and the characters might not be the greatest ever, but they're surely not as dull or awful as you're making them sound. i think they fit the bill as "typical" examples of whatever role they played (the scientist, the unfortunate pair with him, Raymond Burr) all were what i expected of them. the thing was the stage was set for Godzilla to return to the world in the modern era, and Toho did an admirable job considering by the 80's people didn't have a great interest in giant monster movies.
i agree the suit itself was a weakpoint (especially during some close ups) but it had some pretty awesome moments as well, like the attack on the port/harbor with the destruction of the military or the attack on the nuclear plant.
:mechagodzilla: "I'm on a drug called Charlie Sheen" ~ Charlie Sheen
Gojira is:Very Hiroshima®
axnyslie wrote:I read that too quickly I though you said land MINES. Yes they are still out there so step lightly!
Well, I've read through that handbook for the recently deceased. It says: 'live people ignore the strange and unusual. I, myself, am strange and unusual. ~ Lydia Deetz
sir isaac newton is the deadliest son - of - a - bitch in space.
Not really. A lot of the effects hold up better than a lot of stuff we saw in the '90s films.
an unattractive Godzilla design
Godzilla's supposed to be attractive?
Japan was ready for Godzilla's return and Toho should have done a better job.
Oh, damn. You should let them know, bro.
The film's lukewarm success, although popularity is not always the best standard for quality, probably shows how RoG isn't the good film that some people on TK would have you believe. The best things we got from this film is the soundtrack and Godzilla and Raymond Burr's return.
Are you talking about GODZILLA 1985, GODZILLA (1984), or both?
I don't know of many people around here claiming it to be some kind of underrated classic. Some people (me included) just happen to like it, that's all.
It's popularity has a lot to to do with it having a theatrical release, and then being wildly available on video back in the '80s and early '90s. People my age especially (in their late '20s) are a lot more familiar with it than some newer fans, who were raised on the other Heisei and Millennium stuff. Even if it's not a personal favorite, it's a nostalgic entry for a lot of people my age, and that probably has to do with a lot of the favoritism that you've (apparently) been taking note of.
Last edited by Goji on Wed Jul 10, 2013 1:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
UltramanGoji wrote: Cranky because you got mad I implied GFW isn't a good movie aren't you
Chrispy_G wrote:I'll say it one last time, Trump wins in a landslide.
I'll gladly eat crow if it doesn't turn out that way....but at this point it feels painfully obvious, as it has for months.
As far as unattractive, I meant that Godzilla's design in the film is arguably one of the worst (imo) in the series. Even as a kid I found it somewhat hard to swallow. I don't mean to come off as hating Return, because I don't, and the film does have its moments, however, it is an overall rather underwhelming entry into the series.
I believe in Godzilla's potential to have great films, but I also believe that fans should be willing to admit the faults within the films we now have. Personally I think Toho has done a pretty lousy job with their handling of the series and that if they had done a better job it wouldn't be in the state that it is now.
kamilleblu wrote:I believe in Godzilla's potential to have great films, but I also believe that fans should be willing to admit the faults within the films we now have.
I think you'll find this fandom is pretty much bursting at the seams with people willing to admit the faults within the films, we just don't all happen to agree about which films have the greatest faults.
Tokyo, a smoldering memorial to the unknown, an unknown which at this very moment still prevails and could at any time lash out with its terrible destruction anywhere else in the world.
Ranking the Heisei films is a bit tricky for me, as I have nostalgia for all of them, and even without the nostalgia goggles it's difficult to talk about 'objectively good' film making in this genre. To make matters worse, I haven't actually seen all of the movies in Japanese (something I am meaning to do at some point), and since the dubs for many of the films were..."interesting", there's not really a fair basis for comparison.
Having said that, this isn't an objective list of which movies are best; this is just my own subjective list of which ones I like the most, and why. So, without further ado:
7) Godzilla vs Spacegodzilla:
While I like the monsters and some of the human drama, I just find this film to be the dullest paced; I never really cared too much about the drama with Little Godzilla, sadly, and I thought the film dragged in quite a few places. On a technical level, the film also shows signs of being rushed; scenes of the Godzilla suit falling apart combined with extremely unconvincing space battles shows that Koichi Kawakita was under a strict time budget. I also think the flash-heavy final battle was ill-advised; I still find it extremely hard to watch from start to finish, and it might even cause problems for people with epilepsy.
6) Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla II
This film is a favourite of quite a few people, and I like the continuity with the previous films. I also quite liked Rodan's Heisei update, but the Heisei Mechagodzilla never really "clicked" with me the way the Showa one and Kiryu did. The film has a memorable climax and has some good moments, but it's not one I go back to often.
5) The Return of Godzilla
I'm most familiar with the American version with Raymond Burr, which is quite enjoyable. Despite some of the effects now looking dated, I think this film still has a terrific atmosphere; Godzilla is genuinely frightening, and much of the imagery is apocalyptic. The struggle of the human characters also kept me invested, but I thought the film's ending was a bit of a cop-out. Altogether though, I consider it quite an enjoyable entry in the franchise.
4) Godzilla vs. King Ghidorah
The plot makes absolutely no sense, but this film is definitely a highlight of the 90s era. If the franchise was going to reinvent classic characters, Ghidorah was the perfect one to start with, as only King Kong (who was unavailable for this film) is a more memorable opponent for Godzilla. There's also an interesting theme of Japan's own identity in the past, present and future running throughout the narrative, and for the most part it adds weight and picks up the slack for the nonsensical time travel plot.
3) Godzilla vs. Mothra
This is probably a 'love it or hate it film' for fans, since it's really more of a Mothra movie than a Godzilla movie. I like Mothra (I enjoyed the Rebirth of Mothra films), so I was happy to see the character return for the 90s series. I also tend to like it when the franchise gets a bit more into the mystical side of things, and the theme of nature vs humanity is a common one in Tokusatsu (and it is usually fairly interesting, since the hero may or may not have to go against humanity's wishes for the greater good). This one is not for everyone, but I enjoy it.
2) Godzilla vs Destroyah
This film has its flaws, but I consider it a great climax for the Heisei series; the enemy monster is downright horrifying, the focus is on Godzilla throughout the film, and the effects work is ambitious and elaborate compared to the disappointing Godzilla vs Spacegodzilla. It's a pity that there isn't much resolution for the human characters, but Godzilla and Junior more than make up for that; not since Son of Godzilla did we see the King of the Monsters this emotional. I've re-watched this film several times, and I always notice new details and points of interest. It would have been so easy for this film to disappoint, but it's a more than solid entry in the series.
1) Godzilla vs Biollante
I do consider Godzilla vs Biollante to be the best entry in the Heisei series, from what I have seen; it has a compelling and genuinely moving human story, impressive and well-executed monsters, and absolutely gorgeous model work and special effects that rivaled anything Hollywood was producing at the time. There are a few eye-rolling details (the spy plot has a certain 'kitsch' value), but for the most part this is one of the most accessible and appealing films in the franchise for a wider audience; I have shown Godzilla vs Biollante to people who had no interest in the rest of the franchise, but who enjoyed this film on its own merits. Producer Tomoyuki Tanaka had originally wanted to make more original opponents like Biollante for the the Heisei era, and, given how amazingly Biollante turned out, one can't help but wonder what new behemoths Godzilla would have confronted had this course stayed unaltered.
So, there it is, my personal picks. I actually made a much longer post than I thought I would, but I hope my thoughts give you guys something to agree/disagree with.
Goji99 wrote:1. Godzilla vs. Destroyah
2. Godzilla 1984
3. Godzilla vs. King Ghidorah
4. Godzilla vs. MechaGodzilla 2
5. Godzilla vs. Biollante
6. Godzilla vs. Mothra
7. Godzilla vs. SpaceGodzilla
what did you find wrong with space godzilla? and mothra?
1. Godzilla vs. Biollante - Moody and tense, with a great atmosphere and fantastically paced action scenes. Not to mention the story has a nice balance of both well-written human elements and great monster scenes, so you get the best of both worlds.
2. Godzilla vs. MechaGodzilla II - It knows exactly what it wants to be: A monster film filled with as much action of Godzilla fighting Mechagodzilla as possible. It may not always be the best at doing that, but I appreciate it for at least trying.
3. Godzilla vs. King Ghidorah - Not very good, except for the monster scenes which are a blast to watch. The effects are all over the place, the characters are laughable, and the pacing is atrocious. But goddamn if the final battle is exciting as hell.
4. Godzilla vs. Destoroyah - Except for the final ten minutes or so, this film is forgettable and boring. Nothing interesting in the film happens until Godzilla finally starts to meltdown, which is disappointing to see. There is enough room to do so much with the end of the world, but the film never does anything with it.
5. Return Of Godzilla - Another boring and forgettable Godzilla film. With so much of the film being Godzilla's raid on Tokyo, which gets stale very fast, the film relies heavily on its cast...which doesn't work out well.
6. Godzilla vs. Space Godzilla - Heavily flawed movie, with terrible effects, lousy acting, a score that doesn't match up with the film, unnecessary plot points and so much more. Has a few enjoyable moments during the final battle, but that's about it.
7. Godzilla and Mothra: The Battle For Earth - Anything that you could get out of this film you can get out of by watching Mothra and Mothra vs. Godzilla and then some. Plus, there's no reason for Godzilla to exist in this film. He is simply there to get butts in theater seats.
1. Godzilla vs. King Ghidorah
2. Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla 2
3. The Return of Godzilla/Godzilla 1985
4. Godzilla vs. Biollante
5. Godzilla vs, Spacegodzilla
6. Godzilla vs. Destoroyah
7. Godzilla vs. Mothra
:mechagodzilla: 
