GODZILLA: Tristar Godzilla Film (1998)
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Re: GODZILLA: Tristar Godzilla Film (1998)
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Re: GODZILLA: Tristar Godzilla Film (1998)
That's fair, and I'm not saying making him incredibly weak is the right angle to go, but I feel that when that makes him super overpowered and he trounces any obstacle in his way it becomes dull; He can be the king, but he's got to EARN the Crown, y'know? Like, Final Wars-I love that movie too, but let's be real, Godzilla is way too strong. Or for that matter, Godzilla Earth, whose just super strong because he's 'The King of the Monsters'-and this of course means we don't have to see him actually work to earn his crown. He just walks through Hell and kills the entire Greek God pantheon because he's 'The King of the Monsters'Leviarex wrote: ↑Tue Apr 20, 2021 5:11 pmIn my (and certainly many other fans') eyes, that's just too integral a part of his character to ever be changed.Kaiju-Killer 751 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 20, 2021 2:34 pmI agree on both accounts-Making Godzilla more fallible can be a good thing sometimes, as the constant "UNTOUCHABLE GOD-KING OF MONSTERS" angle can be kinda dull after a whileGarzon wrote: ↑Tue Apr 20, 2021 1:00 pm The fact that this isn’t a “proper” Godzilla movie is the least of its problems. I’d go so far as to say that making Godzilla less of an indestructible monster and more of a large animal isn’t a bad idea on paper (although it would’ve been nice if he had atomic breath). The problem is that the movie is just really dumb and shallow, with cartoony and uninspired characters, and a plot that requires the characters to be a bunch of idiots in order for there to be conflict. It also shamelessly rips off Jurassic Park, which is lame.
Now, on their own, these stories aren't bad-I think they're fun forays, even. But when it becomes the same thing over and over again, where Godzilla just wins by default with not even a struggle, then where's the fun in it? Sure, we know Godzilla's going to win (almost always) in the end, but dang it he should at least have to put in the effort to win, not just breathe on his opponent and win without a scratch. If nothing else, seeing someone as exceptionally powerful as Godzilla get knocked down a peg is always good because it shows he's not invulnerable to everything-there are monsters out there that are as strong, if not STRONGER than he is-and that gives a sense of danger.
Heck, it's part of the reason one of my favorite scenes in Godzilla: Final wars was where Godzilla is fighting Monster X....and gets his tail kicked. Like, he gets a second wind against Monster X and then gets the poop beaten out of him. Or, heck, look at Godzilla vs Destroyah where even his famed 'Red-Spiral Ray' hits Destroyah; and does nothing. Burning Godzilla is one of THE strongest incarnations of the Big Guy (at least in terms of raw power) and he still struggled to kill Destroyah. Go even further back to the Showa series, such as in and look at how MechaGodzilla is able to keep him on the ropes throughout the entire movie-even with King Caesar helping Godzilla out he struggled to beat them.
In my opinion, Godzilla is King of the Monsters and the 'strongest' because he earns it, not simply because 'That's how Godzilla is supposed to be'. Does that mean we need to make him weaker? No! And while previous posts of mine have gone in depth that the live-action TriStar Godzilla isn't quite as frail as he seems, he's still not on the level of the OG Japanese Godzilla-and that is definitely not a strength of the movie to have made Godzilla killed by conventional weapons, even if they're high ordinance and it takes a lot of 'em
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Re: GODZILLA: Tristar Godzilla Film (1998)
I more than get what you're saying and can't totally disagree. I just misread (as I often do) what you typed as saying Godzilla should (at least sometimes) be without his standard invulnerability.Kaiju-Killer 751 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 20, 2021 7:23 pmThat's fair, and I'm not saying making him incredibly weak is the right angle to go, but I feel that when that makes him super overpowered and he trounces any obstacle in his way it becomes dull; He can be the king, but he's got to EARN the Crown, y'know? Like, Final Wars-I love that movie too, but let's be real, Godzilla is way too strong. Or for that matter, Godzilla Earth, whose just super strong because he's 'The King of the Monsters'-and this of course means we don't have to see him actually work to earn his crown. He just walks through Hell and kills the entire Greek God pantheon because he's 'The King of the Monsters'Leviarex wrote: ↑Tue Apr 20, 2021 5:11 pmIn my (and certainly many other fans') eyes, that's just too integral a part of his character to ever be changed.Kaiju-Killer 751 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 20, 2021 2:34 pm
I agree on both accounts-Making Godzilla more fallible can be a good thing sometimes, as the constant "UNTOUCHABLE GOD-KING OF MONSTERS" angle can be kinda dull after a while
Now, on their own, these stories aren't bad-I think they're fun forays, even. But when it becomes the same thing over and over again, where Godzilla just wins by default with not even a struggle, then where's the fun in it? Sure, we know Godzilla's going to win (almost always) in the end, but dang it he should at least have to put in the effort to win, not just breathe on his opponent and win without a scratch. If nothing else, seeing someone as exceptionally powerful as Godzilla get knocked down a peg is always good because it shows he's not invulnerable to everything-there are monsters out there that are as strong, if not STRONGER than he is-and that gives a sense of danger.
Heck, it's part of the reason one of my favorite scenes in Godzilla: Final wars was where Godzilla is fighting Monster X....and gets his tail kicked. Like, he gets a second wind against Monster X and then gets the poop beaten out of him. Or, heck, look at Godzilla vs Destroyah where even his famed 'Red-Spiral Ray' hits Destroyah; and does nothing. Burning Godzilla is one of THE strongest incarnations of the Big Guy (at least in terms of raw power) and he still struggled to kill Destroyah. Go even further back to the Showa series, such as in and look at how MechaGodzilla is able to keep him on the ropes throughout the entire movie-even with King Caesar helping Godzilla out he struggled to beat them.
In my opinion, Godzilla is King of the Monsters and the 'strongest' because he earns it, not simply because 'That's how Godzilla is supposed to be'. Does that mean we need to make him weaker? No! And while previous posts of mine have gone in depth that the live-action TriStar Godzilla isn't quite as frail as he seems, he's still not on the level of the OG Japanese Godzilla-and that is definitely not a strength of the movie to have made Godzilla killed by conventional weapons, even if they're high ordinance and it takes a lot of 'em
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Re: GODZILLA: Tristar Godzilla Film (1998)
I personally don’t mind Godzilla being reinvented as more vulnerable to conventional weaponry. I probably wouldn’t have him get killed by standard fighter planes, but Godzilla getting hurt by the military isn’t a dealbreaker for me. I have a bigger gripe with the lack of atomic breath. You can still make Godzilla more like an animal while letting him keep his trademark ability. In any case, the movie is bad for reasons other than the changes made to Godzilla.
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Re: GODZILLA: Tristar Godzilla Film (1998)
This I can agree with. TriStar Godzilla lacking two of the Japanese Godzilla's most prominent traits of invulnerability and atomic breath (or rather, having less durability and a much weaker 'breath weapon' in the form of his flammable 'Power Breath') were TERRIBLE decisions on the part of Emmerich and Devlin. Even then, they were far from some of the worst decisions in the movie, much as I may love it.Garzon wrote: ↑Wed Apr 21, 2021 11:13 am I personally don’t mind Godzilla being reinvented as more vulnerable to conventional weaponry. I probably wouldn’t have him get killed by standard fighter planes, but Godzilla getting hurt by the military isn’t a dealbreaker for me. I have a bigger gripe with the lack of atomic breath. You can still make Godzilla more like an animal while letting him keep his trademark ability. In any case, the movie is bad for reasons other than the changes made to Godzilla.
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Re: GODZILLA: Tristar Godzilla Film (1998)
Oh yeah, it’s the anniversary of this shitstain on Godzilla’s legacy, isn’t it?
GINO kinda turned out to be a necessary evil in the end, though
Sure, it ruined Godzilla’s reputation for years, but without it we wouldn’t have Zilla, Godzilla The Series, the Millenium era, the MonsterVerse, Shin Gojira, or the kaiju renaissance we are currently in.
GINO kinda turned out to be a necessary evil in the end, though
Sure, it ruined Godzilla’s reputation for years, but without it we wouldn’t have Zilla, Godzilla The Series, the Millenium era, the MonsterVerse, Shin Gojira, or the kaiju renaissance we are currently in.
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Re: GODZILLA: Tristar Godzilla Film (1998)
Pretty much this.
The film has fans and I certainly like it for its own merits, but it is a big symptom of the behavior Hollywood had towards foreign products and films at the time. At the risk of pulling the racism card, as it's more nuanced than that, Hollywood at the time had a very dismissal attitude overall towards non-American products. The USA was still riding high after 'winning' the Cold War, had no major rivals or set-backs, and there was a very strong 'We're the best' attitude that remained strong until the pre-mid 2000s where a cultural perspective started to sway the other direction. If you squint, you'll notice this sort of dismissal a lot of foreign products or IPs in the 1990s. Ever wonder why critics and most adult reviewers absolutely loathed Pokemon when it first came out?
With that in mind, it's not much of a shocker Devlin and company retooled Godzilla to function more like a 1950s American monster movie. The 'It Came from Beneath the Sea' cameo, the production duo previously having all but made a remake of 'Earth vs. the Flying Saucers' in Independence Day', and the films they mentioned during production interviews. They name dropped 'Beast from 20,000 Fathoms' multiple times during production, more so than the original Godzilla films.
I'm not saying a 1990s American Godzilla film was guaranteed to be like G'1998, but it having come out at the time it did and by the duo who headlined it, I'm not surprised in hindsight it wound up as it did.
The film has fans and I certainly like it for its own merits, but it is a big symptom of the behavior Hollywood had towards foreign products and films at the time. At the risk of pulling the racism card, as it's more nuanced than that, Hollywood at the time had a very dismissal attitude overall towards non-American products. The USA was still riding high after 'winning' the Cold War, had no major rivals or set-backs, and there was a very strong 'We're the best' attitude that remained strong until the pre-mid 2000s where a cultural perspective started to sway the other direction. If you squint, you'll notice this sort of dismissal a lot of foreign products or IPs in the 1990s. Ever wonder why critics and most adult reviewers absolutely loathed Pokemon when it first came out?
With that in mind, it's not much of a shocker Devlin and company retooled Godzilla to function more like a 1950s American monster movie. The 'It Came from Beneath the Sea' cameo, the production duo previously having all but made a remake of 'Earth vs. the Flying Saucers' in Independence Day', and the films they mentioned during production interviews. They name dropped 'Beast from 20,000 Fathoms' multiple times during production, more so than the original Godzilla films.
I'm not saying a 1990s American Godzilla film was guaranteed to be like G'1998, but it having come out at the time it did and by the duo who headlined it, I'm not surprised in hindsight it wound up as it did.
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Re: GODZILLA: Tristar Godzilla Film (1998)
It's even simpler than that. No quasi-racism or patriotism (Emmerich isn't even American), I just don't think they saw any difference in the Godzilla films and Hollywood's '50s monster movies. SciFi Japan:Desghidorah wrote: ↑Fri May 21, 2021 4:51 am Pretty much this.
The film has fans and I certainly like it for its own merits, but it is a big symptom of the behavior Hollywood had towards foreign products and films at the time. At the risk of pulling the racism card, as it's more nuanced than that, Hollywood at the time had a very dismissal attitude overall towards non-American products. The USA was still riding high after 'winning' the Cold War, had no major rivals or set-backs, and there was a very strong 'We're the best' attitude that remained strong until the pre-mid 2000s where a cultural perspective started to sway the other direction. If you squint, you'll notice this sort of dismissal a lot of foreign products or IPs in the 1990s. Ever wonder why critics and most adult reviewers absolutely loathed Pokemon when it first came out?
With that in mind, it's not much of a shocker Devlin and company retooled Godzilla to function more like a 1950s American monster movie. The 'It Came from Beneath the Sea' cameo, the production duo previously having all but made a remake of 'Earth vs. the Flying Saucers' in Independence Day', and the films they mentioned during production interviews. They name dropped 'Beast from 20,000 Fathoms' multiple times during production, more so than the original Godzilla films.
I'm not saying a 1990s American Godzilla film was guaranteed to be like G'1998, but it having come out at the time it did and by the duo who headlined it, I'm not surprised in hindsight it wound up as it did.
But the reason for not doing GODZILLA was obvious to Dean Devlin. "Both of us thought it was a dopey idea the first time we talked," he recounted. "When Chris came back to us, we still thought it was a dopey idea."3... "We were on our promotion tour for INDEPENDENCE DAY and we`d been talking about some other ideas that didn`t pan out," said Devlin. "We wanted to do an asteroid movie, but when we learned about DEEP IMPACT and ARMAGEDDON we backed away. And then one day in Paris I looked over and saw Roland sketching on his pad. They were Godzilla sketches. And I know when Roland starts sketching, he`s got the fever."5 "It took Dean and I a couple of years to figure out that there could be a way," Emmerich asserted.6 "Godzilla was one of the last concepts of the `50s that had never been done in modern form -- that idea of the giant monster as in TARANTULA or THE BEAST FROM 20,000 FATHOMS. Why not do them again? Big Lizard eats Big Apple. I like it."7 But the retro qualities the appealed to Roland Emmerich had been a major stumbling block for Dean Devlin. "Over the course of one year, I was asked to do GODZILLA several times. Each time I said `No` -- because this was the product of a certain time period, and the qualities it possessed belonged to that time," he argued. "But finally I realized that THE WAR OF THE WORLDS was a product of its time, and yet we re-thought that and came up with INDEPENDENCE DAY. This picture could retain a certain `monster movie` feel while featuring our own, original elements."8
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Re: GODZILLA: Tristar Godzilla Film (1998)
Wow, they really were straight up living on another planet. They weren't even thinking about trying to outdo the Heisei movies, in their heads Godzilla only existed in the 50s.
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Re: GODZILLA: Tristar Godzilla Film (1998)
I, for whatever reason, decided to read a few comments on a GINO clip and...
I didn’t think I could see anymore more shitty Godzilla opinions in one place than TK, but that comment section takes the cake.
Like, seriously. “This movie has more soul and uniqueness than any Godzilla movie ever”? That is like, categorically wrong on way too many levels.
Oh, and “This Godzilla is my favorite because it’s modern and realistic”. Who the fuck likes a giant monster for the damn realism???
I didn’t think I could see anymore more shitty Godzilla opinions in one place than TK, but that comment section takes the cake.
Like, seriously. “This movie has more soul and uniqueness than any Godzilla movie ever”? That is like, categorically wrong on way too many levels.
Oh, and “This Godzilla is my favorite because it’s modern and realistic”. Who the fuck likes a giant monster for the damn realism???
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Re: GODZILLA: Tristar Godzilla Film (1998)
Reddit? Twitter? Any other website? You're going to get some extremely stupid takes on these movies almost everywhere.Jermobooka wrote: ↑Sat Jun 05, 2021 6:48 pm I didn’t think I could see anymore more shitty Godzilla opinions in one place than TK,
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Re: GODZILLA: Tristar Godzilla Film (1998)
Yeah, you’re definitely right now that I think about it. Truly a tossup between Reddit and Twitter...Terasawa wrote: ↑Sat Jun 05, 2021 7:07 pmReddit? Twitter? Any other website? You're going to get some extremely stupid takes on these movies almost everywhere.Jermobooka wrote: ↑Sat Jun 05, 2021 6:48 pm I didn’t think I could see anymore more shitty Godzilla opinions in one place than TK,
Until this comment section comes into the equation, that is
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Re: GODZILLA: Tristar Godzilla Film (1998)
Leeeeeeeeets refrain from naming members verbatim, yeah?
Quick way to get flamebait.
RIP Evan.
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Re: GODZILLA: Tristar Godzilla Film (1998)
Seeing this very small portion of an already niche fanbase congregate in one comment section to spew their bad tales is...kinda fascinating, honestly. It’s mostly just GINO hate in every corner of the fandom, with specks and spots of that 90’s nostalgia popping up
Ah, my bad. Deleted.SoggyNoodles2016 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 05, 2021 7:35 pmLeeeeeeeeets refrain from naming members verbatim, yeah?
Quick way to get flamebait.
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Re: GODZILLA: Tristar Godzilla Film (1998)
I recall some hardcore GINO fans like that stopping in at the various Godzilla forums back in ye olden days. Not many, but a few of them a year. I remember one guy in particular, either here or at Rodan's Roost, who was contentiously adamant that GINO was the best Godzilla because, according to his serviceman uncle, it was more realistic that the military could kill a monster.Jermobooka wrote: ↑Sat Jun 05, 2021 7:52 pm Seeing this very small portion of an already niche fanbase congregate in one comment section to spew their bad tales is...kinda fascinating, honestly. It’s mostly just GINO hate in every corner of the fandom, with specks and spots of that 90’s nostalgia popping up
Even though there's far less vitriol today for that version of the character or its film, I think those fans just avoid the rest of the Godzilla community. But they're certainly out there.
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Re: GODZILLA: Tristar Godzilla Film (1998)
As a GINO fan, I apologize on behalf of all of us for doing that. Also, while I hate to pry or push any of my nonsense, I did come up with a rough draft of a Godzilla 1998 script re-write that's more in flavor with Godzilla: The Series and the unmade sequel. If you could spare a few minutes, please tell me what you think!Terasawa wrote: ↑Sat Jun 05, 2021 9:40 pmI recall some hardcore GINO fans like that stopping in at the various Godzilla forums back in ye olden days. Not many, but a few of them a year. I remember one guy in particular, either here or at Rodan's Roost, who was contentiously adamant that GINO was the best Godzilla because, according to his serviceman uncle, it was more realistic that the military could kill a monster.Jermobooka wrote: ↑Sat Jun 05, 2021 7:52 pm Seeing this very small portion of an already niche fanbase congregate in one comment section to spew their bad tales is...kinda fascinating, honestly. It’s mostly just GINO hate in every corner of the fandom, with specks and spots of that 90’s nostalgia popping up
Even though there's far less vitriol today for that version of the character or its film, I think those fans just avoid the rest of the Godzilla community. But they're certainly out there.
Spoiler:
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Re: GODZILLA: Tristar Godzilla Film (1998)
Just think this and move on, it's a lot healthier that way -
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Re: GODZILLA: Tristar Godzilla Film (1998)
Ah, my first Godzilla movie. One of my favorite movies to rewatch for all the creature mayhem.
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Re: GODZILLA: Tristar Godzilla Film (1998)
This is not a good movie, but I have a damn fun time watching it nonetheless. Maybe it’s nostalgia blinding me a bit, but I can’t find it in me to dislike this movie. I certainly wouldn’t say it’s my least favorite Godzilla movie, cause again, I actually enjoy watching this one unlike some.
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Re: GODZILLA: Tristar Godzilla Film (1998)
Godzilla isn't a masterpiece or anything but I think there was some potential from the stench of this one. The sequel sounded good from the draft we saw. So I am curious, do you guys think that if plans continued to make the sequel and expand the Tristar series that it could have been redeemed? I think it very well could have been and the draft to the sequel and the cartoon spin-off are proof of that. If any sequels were good enough people would probably forget the initial flop as a mistake but appreciate the series as a whole. I wouldn't mind a Godzilla series where the first doesn't feel like Godzilla but the other entries would make up for it as the new surviving Godzilla embodies everything about Godzilla much more than his 98 counterpart.