Mill Creek H-Man/Battle In Outer Space double feature Blu!

[goji1986]

Is that the reason, huh? Besides the fact I already knew about this, I know for a fact the main reason is because Toho doesn't want their targeted Japanese customers importing US Blu-Rays/DVDs featuring better special features/quality than their half-ass releases. If MB would have been able to do everything they wanted to do with DAM and their Megalon release, it'd have blown Toho's Japanese releases out of the water. Can't have that happen.

So if you are aware of this, then why are you putting blame on Criterion for the Showa set and thinking that any other US distributors would have better luck with Toho on G-releases, book packaging notwithstanding?

[canofhumdingers]

Yeah that’s what was confusing. Why invoke Media Blasters as having accomplished more when it was their “bad behavior” (at least from Toho’s perspective) that eventually resulted in criterion being so hamstrung in the first place?

I’ve no doubt that if criterion had been given the opportunity, they would have made this set everything we all hoped it would be. The evidence is there that they wanted and tried to include all the things that are missing (better transfers, unique English versions, etc).

[UltramanGoji]

I know for a fact the main reason is because Toho doesn't want their targeted Japanese customers importing US Blu-Rays/DVDs featuring better special features/quality than their half-ass releases. If MB would have been able to do everything they wanted to do with DAM and their Megalon release, it'd have blown Toho's Japanese releases out of the water. Can't have that happen.

I mean, the special features in the MB Blu-Rays really weren't anything to write home about aside from maybe DAM's inclusion of the Titra dub and the commentary. They absolutely would not have "blown the Toho Blu-Rays" out of the water. The Japanese consumer likely doesn't even care about the dub or a commentary in another language. The galleries would also not really be unique either as most of the images likely came from books already available in their country. There's really nothing uber special about the MB Blu-Rays that would make them tantalizing for the Japanese market aside from being cheaper to import.

[Mac Daddy MM]

Is that the reason, huh? Besides the fact I already knew about this, I know for a fact the main reason is because Toho doesn't want their targeted Japanese customers importing US Blu-Rays/DVDs featuring better special features/quality than their half-ass releases. If MB would have been able to do everything they wanted to do with DAM and their Megalon release, it'd have blown Toho's Japanese releases out of the water. Can't have that happen.

So if you are aware of this, then why are you putting blame on Criterion for the Showa set and thinking that any other US distributors would have better luck with Toho on G-releases, book packaging notwithstanding?

Because Toho was shown to be A LOT less strict when it came to single releases, including the use of dubs and international versions. The lack of dubs, combined with the atrocious "professional" artwork and the god awful book design is one of the biggest turn offs I have for this set.

I mean, the special features in the MB Blu-Rays really weren't anything to write home about aside from maybe DAM's inclusion of the Titra dub and the commentary. They absolutely would not have "blown the Toho Blu-Rays" out of the water.

MB had a whole SLEW of extras lined up for their wide release of DAM and GvM, including poster galleries, commentaries, dubs, and even old school American trailers IIRC.

[UltramanGoji]

Because Toho was shown to be A LOT less strict when it came to single releases, including the use of dubs and international versions.

It would have made zero difference whether or not Criterion released the films in a box set or individually. The restrictions are objectively the fault of Toho's and no amount of finagling the point is going to put Criterion at fault.

MB had a whole SLEW of extras lined up for their wide release of DAM and GvM, including poster galleries, commentaries, dubs, and even old school American trailers IIRC.

And again, those aren't exactly the most interesting when most of the gallery material is available in books and Japanese audiences will have no use for an English-language dub or commentary. The Japanese Blu-Rays have their own host of exclusive special features like interviews with surviving cast members and actual BTS footage of the films in action.

I don't know why you think the MB incident was Toho getting "scared" of a special features-loaded disc. It makes absolutely no sense. Toho's restriction of the discs were do to unapproved licensing issues with the material. Every aspect of a Godzilla disc must be approved by Toho. MB went behind Toho's back and included material not approved. That's it. There's no jealousy from Toho or anything. I don't know where you're getting this from or why you're arguing it.

[Mac Daddy MM]

It would have made zero difference whether or not Criterion released the films in a box set or individually. The restrictions are objectively the fault of Toho's and no amount of finagling the point is going to put Criterion at fault.

Well I can definitely blame Criterion for their horrible idea of making it as big as a phone book and filled with god awful artwork, however.

And again, those aren't exactly the most interesting when most of the gallery material is available in books and Japanese audiences will have no use for an English-language dub or commentary. The Japanese Blu-Rays have their own host of exclusive special features like interviews with surviving cast members and actual BTS footage of the films in action.

I don't know why you think the MB incident was Toho getting "scared" of a special features-loaded disc. It makes absolutely no sense. Toho's restriction of the discs were do to unapproved licensing issues with the material. Every aspect of a Godzilla disc must be approved by Toho. MB went behind Toho's back and included material not approved. That's it. There's no jealousy from Toho or anything. I don't know where you're getting this from or why you're arguing it.

It has no matter on what I "think", it's what I know. Toho does not want other countries to have superior releases than their own.

[UltramanGoji]

Well I can definitely blame Criterion for their horrible idea of making it as big as a phone book and filled with god awful artwork, however.

No argument here.

It has no matter on what I "think", it's what I know.

But what you know is objectively incorrect regarding the MB releases. They were not shelved due to the choices of special features. They were shelved due to unauthorized (i.e. unapproved, not reviewed by Toho) material being included.

If Toho wanted to halt the use of special features, MB wouldn't have planned them from the start. We wouldn't have the first pressing of DAM with special features nor would we have the "Oops!" edition of Megalon because the ISO that was accidentally sent to manufacturers wouldn't exist. We would just have the barebones releases. Yes, Japan (not just Toho) has a failing home media market due to cheaper imports and better releases but those factors are not at play in this situation at all.

[Mac Daddy MM]

We wouldn't have the first pressing of DAM with special features

That was not suppose to happen. This is why there was such a big hold up on Megalon's release (And even then, a first wave got released accidentally), because Toho never approved (and wouldn't have approved) said extras. It was not suppose to happen because, at the time, this release would have surpassed Toho's prior release. Just like, if Criterion's would have been able to have 5/5 video, all movies with extras/commentaries/trailers, all subs/dubs/internation versions, etc - It'd be better than anything they have out on the market currently.

This isn't me spouting some conspiracy theory. This is a legit thing Toho does.

[UltramanGoji]

The MB disc, had it come out as intended, would not have surpassed the Toho disc with it's special features because the special features once again, were nothing compared to what was on the Japanese disc. A Japanese market would not care about an English dub they have no nostalgia for, nor would they care about a commentary presented in another language, nor would they care about galleries comprised of pictures they can find in books readily available in their home country or interviews with dub actors they don't remember. The Japanese releases have interviews with cast and crew, commentary by said cast and crew, Japanese theater program scans, and narrated Sonarama storybooks. All features that would appeal to the Japanese consumer.

Japanese retailers/studios don't like importing mostly due to the cheaper cost it involves, not because of the releases being better.

I would bring up the link but the site is currently self-destructing in its dormant state but the thread about these releases on Sci-Fi Japan details a pretty good hypothesis on what caused the recall from Toho. The special features contained gallery images that were not approved and the trailers and TV spots featured films not part of the Godzilla series or even owned by Toho (pretty sure I remember X from Outer Space being name-dropped). It's highly likely that instead of removing the offending items, Toho just went scorched earth on the discs, removing any and all special features. Either that or MB decided not to trifle further with a company that could easily buy them out and shut them down without losing much profit.

I think we're going in circles though, so I'm just going to say this and let it be. I don't think either of us are going to change our minds.

[canofhumdingers]

Yeah, Toho didn’t lose their poop over Media Blasters including extras (the vast majority were known and approved by Toho - even the AIP dub I believe), they lost their poop over a select few extras that they had not explicitly reviewed approved. And that’s when things changed. Media Blasters violated Toho’s trust by including a small number of extras Toho had not reviewed (including things that Toho had no legal copyright to). And now Toho won’t trust anyone, even criterion.

[Rody]

Media Blasters got more for their releases individually than Criterion did.

That was not supposed to happen. This is why there was such a big hold up on Megalon's release (And even then, a first wave got released accidentally), because Toho never approved (and wouldn't have approved) said extras.

I'm confused - are you saying a company like Media Blasters WOULD or WOULDN'T be able to get more content? I'm getting conflicting messages here.

Of course, this whole argument seems to be ignoring the fact that Criterion previously did an EXCELLENT release of the 1954 orginal film, restoring both the Japanese and American versions, and including all kinds of original bonus features. This was in the same year that MB released Destroy All Monsters, when the whole fiasco started.
Sure, Toho is wary of reverse importing; but we've already seen what Criterion is really capable of, unrestrained. After the MB fiasco, NONE of the subsequent releases - Sony, MB themselves, Kraken, and Criterion, with the exception of Echo Bridge - have been able to provide much in presentation or bonus features. If Criterion, who did what was possibly the very best single release of a Godzilla film ever in the USA, is now unable to do anything, why is there any reason to think someone like Arrow or Shout! would be allowed to do better?


But I digress; we're in the wrong thread for this. I, for one, am certainly interested to know what the final specs for this double feature will be.

[Angilasman]

Even though I already have it on another release, I hope they include the commentary track so new viewers will have it.

Added in 2 months 11 days 23 hours 25 minutes 20 seconds:
Word from a poster on blu-ray.com who got the disc early...

The bad news: Battle has dubtitles.

The good news: both films apparently have there Japanese and US cup presented intact. Previous releases of Battle, which was uncut in the US version, simply laid the original Japanese audio over that US cut. So we still have the same improper subs for the movie, but at least we will be able to see the original Japanese titles and whatnot.

(Battle has never been a favorite, while H-Man is, so I'm not too fussed)

[Terasawa]

That sucks because I know someone offered Mill Creek the authentic subtitle translation that was included on the second pressing of the original Icons of Sci-Fi DVD.

Added in 12 hours 47 minutes 21 seconds:
Honestly, anyone who wants these films on Blu-ray should just hold out until Eureka releases details and specs for its release, coming later this year.

[m0nster01]

Wait, when did that project get announced?!

Btw, Amazon just notified me that my copy has shipped out.

Ah nuts

[Terasawa]

Wait, when did that project get announced?!

Only a few weeks ago, as I recall.

[Godzilla21]

Just got mine in today. Going to try and watch this week. If I have this set and the Mothra mill creek steelbook is there any reason to hold onto the Icons Toho Collection set anymore? Anything that didn't carry over?

[Terasawa]

Just got mine in today. Going to try and watch this week. If I have this set and the Mothra mill creek steelbook is there any reason to hold onto the Icons Toho Collection set anymore? Anything that didn't carry over?

It depends on which pressing of the disc you got. Some copies have subtitles (not dubtitles) on BIOS. But if you have the other copy then probably not.

[Angilasman]

This reviewer not only claims that the release doesn't have dubtitles, but also list several markedly different dialogue exchanges comparing the English dub with the subtitles on the Japanese track:

https://trailersfromhell.com/toho-sci-fi-double-bill/

... huh?

[G-MAN]

This reviewer not only claims that the release doesn't have dubtitles, but also list several markedly different dialogue exchanges comparing the English dub with the subtitles on the Japanese track:

https://trailersfromhell.com/toho-sci-fi-double-bill/

... huh?

Wonder if people were lying about dubtitles then or just assuming?

[omgitsgodzilla]

I checked the openings up to the title cards as soon as I got my copy -- dubtitles. Skipped ahead to the UN speech at the third chapter stop -- dubtitles again.

I checked the excerpts quoted in that review against the accurate subs and it was a match, so I got my disc out again and checked the second exchange at the end of the film, and that had accurate subtitles. Very strange. I'm going to do an in-depth comparison tomorrow to see whether it just switches at some point or goes back and forth.