Toho's Godzilla 4K Restoration Project

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Chrispy_G
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Re: Toho's Godzilla 4K Restoration Project

Post by Chrispy_G »

Wow. Sounds fantastic. I hope these 4K restorations as as successful as possible in as many ways as possible.

I'd lose my mind to get 4K discs of every Godzilla film after they have been fully restored, but even Blu Rays sourced from the 4K restorations would be a blessing as a collector.

Commission a fresh, high quality + accurate dub for every movie and I would be on board twice over :D
Last edited by Chrispy_G on Thu Apr 22, 2021 8:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Toho's Godzilla 4K Restoration Project

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can i get a tldr?
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Re: Toho's Godzilla 4K Restoration Project

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Joseph Goodman wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 4:36 pm HUGE wall of phenomenal text!!
I’m having to read this in small tidbits as I have a spare moment here or there, so I’m still far from through it. But I just wanted to give you a massive thank you!!! for translating and posting this interview! Some truly spectacular information here! Invaluable.

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Re: Toho's Godzilla 4K Restoration Project

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please just give us screenshots not from a camera, ive been reading about the text for 2-3 years now

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Joseph Goodman
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Re: Toho's Godzilla 4K Restoration Project

Post by Joseph Goodman »

Thank you, John and canofhumdingers; keep in mind, I didn't translate this, the DeepL software did... I just had to try and make sense of certain jargon/analogous phrases that the software translated literally. For example, there was one term used a few times that it kept rendering as "blue glow" or "aurorae"; fortunately, there was enough surrounding context to determine that they were referring to flickering in G'54 (I think!).
can i get a tldr?
I posted one when the article first went up.

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Malchik
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Re: Toho's Godzilla 4K Restoration Project

Post by Malchik »

Did I just read Toho made safety prints of their original nitrate negatives and then destroyed them back in the seventies?

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Joseph Goodman
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Re: Toho's Godzilla 4K Restoration Project

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Malchik wrote: Fri Apr 23, 2021 4:02 pm Did I just read Toho made safety prints of their original nitrate negatives and then destroyed them back in the seventies?
Yup; presumably the same fate met pre-1955 Toho Kurosawa films as well (except for "I Live In Fear", which somehow escaped the nitrate chopping block). It's not like similar things weren't still happening in Hollywood at the same time; the 70's also brought us 20th Century Fox indifferently copying all their three-strip Technicolor negatives to unstable color stock, and then junking the originals.

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Chrispy_G
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Re: Toho's Godzilla 4K Restoration Project

Post by Chrispy_G »

And it isn't like there wasn't at least reasonable cause for concern considering how flammable nitrate films are. Sure...optimum solution would be to make safety copies and THEN still take all precautions in storing and saving the original nitrate materials. But in those days there may not have been an appreciation for all of the ramifications of 'destroying the originals because they are a fire risk' would mean in the grand scheme of film history.

I mean....think about all of the Doctor Who episodes that are 'lost' purely because the company behind it didn't see the 'value' in keeping and preserving old shows that had already aired. Perspectives were just different.
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Re: Toho's Godzilla 4K Restoration Project

Post by John Schuermann »

Joseph Goodman wrote: Fri Apr 23, 2021 12:51 pm Thank you, John and canofhumdingers; keep in mind, I didn't translate this, the DeepL software did... I just had to try and make sense of certain jargon/analogous phrases that the software translated literally. For example, there was one term used a few times that it kept rendering as "blue glow" or "aurorae"; fortunately, there was enough surrounding context to determine that they were referring to flickering in G'54 (I think).
Yes but it still takes time to organize, clarify and parse the materials. So thanks again. Info like that you posted is what I live for :)

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Joseph Goodman
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Re: Toho's Godzilla 4K Restoration Project

Post by Joseph Goodman »

You're welcome!

In another bit of new info regarding these remasters, an article was published in the current issue of "Eiga HiHo" magazine about the remasters, where it was revealed that previous transfers of "Mothra vs. Godzilla" were from fourth-generation materials, which isn't really surprising given how the current HD master looks.

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Re: Toho's Godzilla 4K Restoration Project

Post by omgitsgodzilla »

Enjoying the automatic translation's rendering as "great-grandson posi." Also refreshing to see the blunt "That's low quality" at the end after all the 2008 Hi-Vision apologetics that went on around the time the Criterion box came out
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Re: Toho's Godzilla 4K Restoration Project

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Joseph Goodman wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 4:36 pm This article was posted earlier in the thread, with a rough summary. After finding out about DeepL Translator and its more readable results than Google Translate, I decided to run the whole article through DeepL and post it. DeepL still has some quirks in use, like occasionally skipping whole sentences or repeating them, so I had to go paragraph-by-paragraph, and even line-by-line in some case. Any errors in clean-up are mine; mods, feel free to re-shuffle this post if needed, since it's such a huge wall of text.
This was brilliant! Thank you for taking all that time and effort to translate it and post it here this was a fantastic read
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Re: Toho's Godzilla 4K Restoration Project

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omgitsgodzilla wrote: Mon Apr 26, 2021 4:58 am Enjoying the automatic translation's rendering as "great-grandson posi." Also refreshing to see the blunt "That's low quality" at the end after all the 2008 Hi-Vision apologetics that went on around the time the Criterion box came out
Yeah, if I’m comprehending google translate’s less-than-perfect translation of that post (and the accompanying photo of the book) then Mothra vs Godzilla’s HD master is basically a 5th gen copy. OCN -> master positive -> dupe neg -> dupe positive -> hi-vision telecine.

Low quality indeed.

Man, I cannot wait to see these 4K versions! I’m seriously tempted to order the Japanese releases. And I don’t even have a 4K tv yet!

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Re: Toho's Godzilla 4K Restoration Project

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canofhumdingers wrote: Mon Apr 26, 2021 8:55 amYeah, if I’m comprehending google translate’s less-than-perfect translation of that post (and the accompanying photo of the book) then Mothra vs Godzilla’s HD master is basically a 5th gen copy. OCN -> master positive -> dupe neg -> dupe positive -> hi-vision telecine.
When talking about what generation a film element is, the transfer isn't usually included as one of the generations, so this would be a fourth-generation element. Despite not getting "Godzilla vs. The Thing" in the Criterion set, we got something the same number of generations away from the negative that a US print was!


Man, I cannot wait to see these 4K versions! I’m seriously tempted to order the Japanese releases. And I don’t even have a 4K tv yet!
The only one announced for disc release (so far) is KKvsG, with the standard Blu-ray based on the 4k restoration here.

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Re: Toho's Godzilla 4K Restoration Project

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Right. The film element used was fourth generation. So the actual telecine transfer (a copy of the 4th gen film element) would be what I meant by “fifth generation”. I realize I wasn’t using the industry standard terms correctly but what I was trying to say is the transfer on the disc that you can watch on your tv screen is at least 5 copies/steps down the line.

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Re: Toho's Godzilla 4K Restoration Project

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53 hi-res photos from Toho's new King Kong vs. Godzilla Blu-ray. All screenshots are from the full-length cut -- the Matsuri version transfer is significantly different.

The last several screenshots compare the new BD against the 2014 Universal BD. I don't have Criterion's set but you can compare the same shots in this gallery against those in DoBlu's review.

Note that the Toho screenshot tagged "Compare (6)" is an example of a motion-interpolated frame created for the new restoration. SpaceHunterM did a video showing some of these here.
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Re: Toho's Godzilla 4K Restoration Project

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If these frames exist in the US cut, why is Toho creating interpolated versions? Is it just because they don’t have the frames in their own film materials?

Also, and I’m just looking at these on my phone right now, but my initial gut reaction is Toho seems to have actually done a nice job? The captures look really nice to me. And I definitely prefer Toho’s color timing to universals! And I *was* quite happy with the Universal BD… dang it! Cant unsee!
Last edited by canofhumdingers on Thu May 13, 2021 10:58 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Toho's Godzilla 4K Restoration Project

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canofhumdingers wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 10:58 am If these frames exist in the US cut, why is Toho creating interpolated versions? Is it just because they don’t have the frames in their own film materials?
I don't know the exact reason but it might be a matter of visual consistency, since the John Beck element is in visibly worse shape than the negative trims from the Japanese version (missing frames aside). Even if it wasn't, it's at least one generation removed from the negative. Again, I'm not sure of the specifics here.
Also, and I’m just looking at these on my phone right now, but my initial gut reaction is Toho seems to have actually done a nice job? The captures look really nice to me. And I definitely prefer Toho’s color timing to universals! And I *was* quite happy with the Universal BD… dang it! Cant unsee!
Yeah, this restoration only enhances the flaws in the Universal transfer.
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Joseph Goodman
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Re: Toho's Godzilla 4K Restoration Project

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canofhumdingers wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 10:58 am If these frames exist in the US cut, why is Toho creating interpolated versions? Is it just because they don’t have the frames in their own film materials?
Yes; when film is spliced together during editing, a frame is lost on either side of the splice. When the camera negative was re-cut to the Champion Festival version, not only was footage removed, with an accompanying re-splice at the edit point, but some footage was shuffled around, which meant even more splicing, and then the footage that was cut out was also spliced together into four short rolls separate from the now-shortened reels of the negative. Overall, the 4k restoration runs about 15 seconds (360 frames altogether) longer than previous reconstructions, due to these fresh interpolated frames.
Last edited by Joseph Goodman on Thu May 13, 2021 11:47 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Toho's Godzilla 4K Restoration Project

Post by GodzillaFan1996 »

Received my 4k blu ray set this morning and I can absolutely say that this release blows all other Godzilla releases/transfers (Showa, Heisei, and Millennium) out of the water with its sharp image, beautiful details, and outstanding colors. I hope this is evidence that Toho is finally realizing the value of their most iconic film franchise. My only nitpick is that there is no English subtitles, but that is to be expected.
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