Does anybody find the heisei gamera trilogy to be overrated

[Showa Gojira]

I do, I love the first two but the third film is pretty meh. The fights were pretty lacking and the characters were nowhere near as likeable, the special effects may have been good but I would have preferred a better story. Even then the first two movies are not the "Pinnacles of Kaiju movies" people claim them to be, even if they are good movies. I like Gamera vs Barugon, Gamera vs Gyaos, and Gamera the Brave all just as much and yet none of those are among my top ten giant monster movies (maybe my top 10 non-Godzilla Kaiju films though).

[eabaker]

...the characters were nowhere near as likeable.... I would have preferred a better story.

I don't think the story's goal was ever to present "likable" characters, though; what matters here is whether they are compelling. And to me, Ayana struggling with survivor's guilt and eventually making peace with it is a far stronger, more compelling story than we get in the first two entries - particularly the second, which favors plot over story to the point of imbalance.

[Showa Gojira]

...the characters were nowhere near as likeable.... I would have preferred a better story.

I don't think the story's goal was ever to present "likable" characters, though; what matters here is whether they are compelling. And to me, Ayana struggling with survivor's guilt and eventually making peace with it is a far stronger, more compelling story than we get in the first two entries - particularly the second, which favors plot over story to the point of imbalance.

I didn't really find them all that compelling either, it didn't make me care about the characters but to each their own. I'm also of the opinion that the first two Heisei Gamera movies had far superior fight scenes even if the special effects were better in the third film.

[eabaker]

...the characters were nowhere near as likeable.... I would have preferred a better story.

I don't think the story's goal was ever to present "likable" characters, though; what matters here is whether they are compelling. And to me, Ayana struggling with survivor's guilt and eventually making peace with it is a far stronger, more compelling story than we get in the first two entries - particularly the second, which favors plot over story to the point of imbalance.

I didn't really find them all that compelling either, it didn't make me care about the characters but to each their own. I'm also of the opinion that the first two Heisei Gamera movies had far superior fight scenes even if the special effects were better in the third film.

I'd put the initial Gamera/Gyaos fight in G3 up there against anything in the first two (and really, I'd rank it above anything in G2). I can see where the Gamera/Iris fight would be underwhelming for somebody who's there first and foremost for the kaiju action; but I also feel like at that point a more drawn out and elaborate fight would be a distraction from the story, not a meaningful addition to it.

[Angilasman]

It's the apex. All films have flaws - nothing is perfect and you can nitpick anything, but collectively the virtues of these three films add up to something terrific. If anyone is casually interested in kaiju this is what I recommend.

[Lesko]

Overrated? No way! Sure they aren't perfect and there are some flaws between the three this is almost as good as you can get in a kaiju trilogy given the budget. Each film has it's own identity and stands out from the rest of them. Totally different in mood which seems to be reflected in Gamera's changing appearance throughout the trilogy. The first entry is very old school kaiju action slugfest, the second is a serious and darker kaiju all out brawl and the third is the moodiest and darkest with the least emphasis on kaiju action. The villain kaiju are extremely iconic and memorable and along with the movie's they each star in, definitely stand out from the rest. The ravenous Gyaos, apocalyptic Legion, and mysterious Iris are all great villains in their own right and deserve to be remembered with the trilogy they were all in. Not to mention Gamera himself is an evolving character that we get to see change as we watch the trilogy and how he seems to evolve as he gets more experience.

[o.supreme]

I really enjoy GoTU and G2..... GIII is a mixed bag for me. There is really nothing wrong with it, aside from the *weird* relationship between Irys and the girl at times, but I think when some fans went absolutely bonkers over it, saying it was the best kaiju film ever, I kind of took a step back. Watching it for the first time in several years on the Arrow BRD, it was still ok. Not the greatest, but a solid film. G2 is still my favorite of that trilogy. Also I know I am in the minority, but I hear many fans (even the commentaries on the Arrow BRD) say that the Heisei Gamera trilogy was superior to any of the Heisei Godzilla films, I don't fully agree. I'd Rate Biollante, and KG higher than the Gamera trilogy, but again, that's just me. Also there are other Heisei Godzilla films I enjoy more, but from a technical perspective, I understand they may not look as good.

[eabaker]

I'd Rate Biollante, and KG higher than the Gamera trilogy, but again, that's just me.

I'm a huge fan of both of those movies, and can definitely see where you're coming from. I'd say, all things considered, I'd rank the first and third Gamera movies as at least equal to if not better than Biollante or King Ghidorah, but there's an awful lot to recommend those two Godzilla movies (particularly Biollante); they have interesting narrative and thematic concepts, some very compelling characters (more among their supporting cast than their functional "lead" characters), one of the most beloved of all Godzilla designs, some very cool effects elements for their time, solid direction from Omori, and in the case of KG a great Ifukube score.

Higuchi and Kaneko are both more sophisticated visual stylists than their counterparts on the Godzilla series at the time, and the Gamera movies have a slicker, more professional look and feel than the competition, but there's something in the rough-hewn quality of certain aspects of Biollante that's always really appealed to me.

[goji89]

I'd Rate Biollante, and KG higher than the Gamera trilogy, but again, that's just me.

God I wish there was a like button on this damn forum... I would've given you all of them.

So instead I'll give you this.

[tbeasley]

In my mind the Gamera trilogy not only lives up to but exceeds the promise of ROG and Biollante (and parts of King Ghidorah) that the rest of the Heisei series kinda gave up on. Same with Gamera the Brave and the Millennium series (GMK aside).

[Mac Daddy MM]

The trilogy as a whole? Absolutely not. Gamera 3? Undoubtedly yes. I personally prefer both G1 and G2 over G3 easily. And it's not really anything about G3's story and characters I dislike. The story itself is well done and characters, for the most part, well done. But there's some glaring issues I just can never get over when watching it. Such as...

Ayana's whole "surviving guilt and coming to grips with it by the end" is paid off in... Possibly the entire destruction of Japan and perhaps the human race? Yeah, I get why she hated Gamera and blamed him... Even if it is straight up her parents fault for NOT EVACUATING WHEN GIANT MONSTERS INVADED THE CITY. But by the time Gamera pulled her out of Iris and she was "cured", she outright caused so much death and destruction in her quest for vengeance that it is never resolved. Do you REALLY think I should feel happy for her now? Hell no. The movie would of had such a more powerful ending if she had some hand in stopping/defeating Iris and sacrificing her life for his demise. Her entire arc boils down to an angry teen that goes on a shooting rampage and stops because they realize how wrong it is what they're doing... Only after slaughtering half the student body. And then gets away with it because reasons.

The anime-isms and Poke'mon influence. If you don't think Baby Iris wasn't influenced by the Poke' boom of the 90s, you're nuts. And the general anime-isms of the special effects, including a Kyoto that is made of pure, 100% explodium. I like explosions too, don't get me wrong. But when they're THAT obnoxious and outright over done, it comes across more as a parody of a kaiju fight than anything. Yeah, they still look cool though. Stupid, but cool.

Iris himself. I like Iris' design. But it just doesn't work for a live action kaiju. The suit is way too damn stiff, making for what is easily the most boring fight in the trilogy. Gamera and Iris are rendered unable to actually fight and resort to a bump contest that makes Godzilla and SpaceGodzilla's hand-to-hand battles look like an MMA fight. And when one is watching a kaiju fight that is traditionally called "The Dark Knight of the Kaiju Genre", you expect the villain to at least be somewhat higher in ability than Gyaos and Legion.


Not saying G3 is a bad film by any means. It surely isn't. But do I think it is overrated? Good god yes. 99% of the time, when someone is talking about and uses that obnoxious Dark Knight comparison, I stop listening/reading.

Gamera 1 and 2 > 3.

[Terasawa]

Gamera 3 is one of the five best Japanese special effects movies ever made.

[Kaltes-Herzeleid]

Gamera 3 is one of the five best Japanese special effects movies ever made.

The art of cinema itself peaked with Gamera 3.

[Major sssspielberg!]

Gamera 3 personally nursed me back to health when I fell ill with the black lung.

[Mac Daddy MM]

I rest my case.

[Angilasman]

Watching these three movies, without fail, reminds me of why I even like the genre in the first place and I always feel re-energized afterwards!

[Major sssspielberg!]

Ayana's whole "surviving guilt and coming to grips with it by the end" is paid off in... Possibly the entire destruction of Japan and perhaps the human race?...

In my experience, guilt and bitterness, especially things that we tiny people can't control or forces that are 'bigger' than us can drive people to do awful, hurtful things. Especially in our teenage years. Besides, I always read Iris as a predatory influence-encouraging her anger and pain to feed itself.

The anime-isms and Poke'mon influence. If you don't think Baby Iris wasn't influenced by the Poke' boom of the 90s, you're nuts. And the general anime-isms of the special effects, including a Kyoto that is made of pure, 100% explodium.

While I can't comment for sure on Pokémon influencing cute baby Iris, I don't think it influenced it to the point you think it does. Iris is like an unhealthy coping mechanism- it seems innocuous at first, and it helps soothe/distract from the pain Ayana is going through, until it's out of control, or rather Iris is in control. As far as Kyoto, isn't it largely comprised of very old wooden buildings? It stands to reason Kyoto would go up in flames.

Whether G3 is overrated or not doesn't change that it's an excellent example of the genre. It pains me to hear it compared to The Dark Knight because... TDK is nowhere near as great of a film as G3.

[Gigantis]

I think the Heisei Trilogy are good. Like, REALLY good (why else would i have Gamera on my profile?) but to be honest.. yeah, it is kinda overrated. At least in the kaiju community. Everyone proclaims G3 as the best film ever, and it is good.. but i never really put "Gamera 3" and "Perfect cinematic masterpiece" in the same sentence. Then again i'm probably one of the few people who think G2 is the best so..

I'd even say i enjoy plenty more of Godzilla's catalogue over the trilogy as a whole. Films like GMK, Shin, even Biollante.

[Terasawa]

Gamera 3 is one of the five best Japanese special effects movies ever made.

The art of cinema itself peaked with Gamera 3.

Erm, ok. Not sure why you're quoting me here. I was completely serious.

Everyone proclaims G3 as the best film ever, and it is good.. but i never really put "Gamera 3" and "Perfect cinematic masterpiece" in the same sentence.

Do they? I think there's a marked distinction between "best kaiju film" and "best film ever," at least from my perspective (I know there are a lot of fans that rate every kaiju movie higher than I care to). I guess those could be confused when taken out of context, though.

[Gigantis]

Do they? I think there's a marked distinction between "best kaiju film" and "best film ever," at least from my perspective (I know there are a lot of fans that rate every kaiju movie higher than I care to). I guess those could be confused when taken out of context, though.

Yeah best kaiju film was really what i was trying to get at. Still, everyone says G3 is the best of the genre. Effects wise? Sure, it's easily one of the best of suitmation! Character, action and story wise though?

Ehhhhhhh I don't see it