WOTM R8: Voyager vs Bacon

[FatBaconUnicorn]

At the Pumpkin Bombs strongest, it was able to disintegrate targets and while weaker, it was able to destroy a lot more than your average bomb. Tobey can for sure take a hit from bombs, he is going to be fine

[Voyager]

At the Pumpkin Bombs strongest, it was able to disintegrate targets and while weaker, it was able to destroy a lot more than your average bomb. Tobey can for sure take a hit from bombs, he is going to be fine

Ah yeah, he’ll be fine from the bombs that disorientated Thanos, who’s able to take a beating from anyone on the Avengers except Stormbreaker Thor.

So, I’d like to know what makes the Spider-Man able to kill either Zoanoid and Iron Man. I’m curious, because I’m pretty sure they’re limited in what they can do here.

[Nagoda]

Ok, sure. Repulsor rays won’t be an issue for now. What about Tony’s missiles that can just explode by being near a target. They exploded before hitting Thanos, so if they go near a Spider-Man, they go kaboom, and someone gets hurt. You can’t dodge those. Neither can you dodge the force.

Raimi Spider-Man literally took a pumpkin bomb to the face! He'll be fine.

Pumpkin bombs are like traditional bombs with added flames. These missiles are more like explosive charges, very heavy on the force, very little with the special effects. Tobey could take them sure, but he’ll be in a bad state afterwards, especially since Tony fires at least 5 at once. Oh, and he wasn’t fine when the pumpkin bomb hit him. He was clearly disorientated and beaten up by it.

If Tom was knocked out cold by a train, Iron Man’s hand and feet hammers are going to be brutal, as are Zerbebuth’s hits and acid, which can melt through the webbing. Synevite is also here, and will be able to help with his sharp spikes on the inside of his tentacles, as well as his ink and brute strength.

Added in 1 minute 33 seconds:
Also we never see him use Insta Kill in the default suit so we don’t know what it can do. It won’t be as fatal as the Iron Spider because it has no added metal arms to stab stuff.

Ah yes, hand and feet hammers are going to hurt. Meanwhile, in Infinity War, he catches the big alien man's hammer as it's about to crush Iron Man like it was nothing. The Same guy who was smacking tony around the park and city like he was nothing with that hammer, and he just catches it like nothing. Also, Zerbebuth, the man with a giant monster mouth with acid shooting tendrils on his face. The Same man who bragged he was the ultimate Anti-Guyver Weapon, and yet was still unable to hit the guyver at all with any of this attacks, then got kneed in the face and cut in half, then got his arms cut off. What a man! So he's going to shoot acid into his own face to get rid of the webbing? That doesn't sound like a very good idea. Synevite doesn't have sharp spieks on the inside of his tentacles, he's got mouths at the end of some of them. Which he doesn't use against the Guyver at all. The Ink blinding spider-man wouldn't change much considering he got to the end of a bridge with his eyes closed, in an illusion, while military drones were firing machine gun rounds at him. Doctor Strange also hits him with a train in the mirror dimension and he's fine there.

Added in 1 minute 29 seconds:
Also, what's stopping Instant Kill from having Tom's Spiderman throw a web bomb down Zerbebuth's massive mouth while dodging acid fire? If the Guyver could get close enough to knee him in the face, Spiderman should do the same.

Added in 48 seconds:
Even if he is an augmented monster being, the Zoanoids still have to breath.

[Voyager]

Raimi Spider-Man literally took a pumpkin bomb to the face! He'll be fine.

Pumpkin bombs are like traditional bombs with added flames. These missiles are more like explosive charges, very heavy on the force, very little with the special effects. Tobey could take them sure, but he’ll be in a bad state afterwards, especially since Tony fires at least 5 at once. Oh, and he wasn’t fine when the pumpkin bomb hit him. He was clearly disorientated and beaten up by it.

If Tom was knocked out cold by a train, Iron Man’s hand and feet hammers are going to be brutal, as are Zerbebuth’s hits and acid, which can melt through the webbing. Synevite is also here, and will be able to help with his sharp spikes on the inside of his tentacles, as well as his ink and brute strength.

Added in 1 minute 33 seconds:
Also we never see him use Insta Kill in the default suit so we don’t know what it can do. It won’t be as fatal as the Iron Spider because it has no added metal arms to stab stuff.

Ah yes, hand and feet hammers are going to hurt. Meanwhile, in Infinity War, he catches the big alien man's hammer as it's about to crush Iron Man like it was nothing. The Same guy who was smacking tony around the park and city like he was nothing with that hammer, and he just catches it like nothing. Also, Zerbebuth, the man with a giant monster mouth with acid shooting tendrils on his face. The Same man who bragged he was the ultimate Anti-Guyver Weapon, and yet was still unable to hit the guyver at all with any of this attacks, then got kneed in the face and cut in half, then got his arms cut off. What a man! So he's going to shoot acid into his own face to get rid of the webbing? That doesn't sound like a very good idea. Synevite doesn't have sharp spieks on the inside of his tentacles, he's got mouths at the end of some of them. Which he doesn't use against the Guyver at all. The Ink blinding spider-man wouldn't change much considering he got to the end of a bridge with his eyes closed, in an illusion, while military drones were firing machine gun rounds at him. Doctor Strange also hits him with a train in the mirror dimension and he's fine there.

Added in 1 minute 29 seconds:
Also, what's stopping Instant Kill from having Tom's Spiderman throw a web bomb down Zerbebuth's massive mouth while dodging acid fire? If the Guyver could get close enough to knee him in the face, Spiderman should do the same.

Added in 48 seconds:
Even if he is an augmented monster being, the Zoanoids still have to breath.

Sorry, Synevite has rows of sharp claws on his hands. Also, might not be helpful here, but he can blend in with his surroundings. Also… if Tom throws a web bomb down Zerbebuth’s throat while he’s firing acid… the acid will melt the bomb before it gets in his mouth. Hammers that make Thanos stagger back and draw blood from him aren’t going to hurt Spider-Man one bit. Is that really what you’re going for? Don’t forget the blade, as it was even strong enough to stab through the metal. Ok, yeah, Zerbie couldn’t take out the Guyver, but he still took out buildings. If a foe gets caught, they’re in for a hell of a time. And it’s not like he’s helpless and alone, as he’s got Synevite and Tony backing him up.

Still, no one’s told me how the Spidey’s are meant to take out Tony. Someone who’s got the firepower, speed, durability and knowledge thank’s to FRIDAY to deal with them. Just moving to another battle quickly, Arbiter probably kills Ultraman and nearly does Saber, but is probably stopped when Anakin and Obi Wan come over. And if they don't come over to the Arbiter after Mace dies, they could come over to the Spidermen and help Tony and the Zoanoids.

Also don’t forget the Tyranids, they’ll be pesting the Spiders while they’re fighting off foes equal to (and in Tony’s case) superior to themselves. Not sure how they can deal with all that.

[Nagoda]

15 minutes into this video we see Guyver 1 fight Zerbebuth. So you are telling me that Tom's Spider Sense is nowhere near the level of Guyver 1 on autopilot, dodging all of Zerbebuth's attacks. Literally dodges ALL OF ZERBEBUTH'S ATTACKS! This is Guyver on Autopilot! Tom on pure Spider Sense was basically this but with more things around trying to kill him, but BLIND.

[Voyager]

15 minutes into this video we see Guyver 1 fight Zerbebuth. So you are telling me that Tom's Spider Sense is nowhere near the level of Guyver 1 on autopilot, dodging all of Zerbebuth's attacks. Literally dodges ALL OF ZERBEBUTH'S ATTACKS! This is Guyver on Autopilot! Tom on pure Spider Sense was basically this but with more things around trying to kill him, but BLIND.

So you ignore the question asked… and then take something I never said and act like I did? Is it the fact that if he’s spewing acid and Tom throws a web bomb, the web bomb will be melted? That’s in no way implying the Guyver is vastly superior to Peter. It’s using common sense. If you throw something in acid, it melts.

[Nagoda]

15 minutes into this video we see Guyver 1 fight Zerbebuth. So you are telling me that Tom's Spider Sense is nowhere near the level of Guyver 1 on autopilot, dodging all of Zerbebuth's attacks. Literally dodges ALL OF ZERBEBUTH'S ATTACKS! This is Guyver on Autopilot! Tom on pure Spider Sense was basically this but with more things around trying to kill him, but BLIND.

So you ignore the question asked… and then take something I never said and act like I did? Is it the fact that if he’s spewing acid and Tom throws a web bomb, the web bomb will be melted? That’s in no way implying the Guyver is vastly superior to Peter. It’s using common sense. If you throw something in acid, it melts.

And if you are right in someone's face shoving a web bomb into their mouth, kinda hard for the acid to hit the bomb.

Added in 1 minute 20 seconds:
Especially if you can get close enough to literally knee them in the face.

[Voyager]

15 minutes into this video we see Guyver 1 fight Zerbebuth. So you are telling me that Tom's Spider Sense is nowhere near the level of Guyver 1 on autopilot, dodging all of Zerbebuth's attacks. Literally dodges ALL OF ZERBEBUTH'S ATTACKS! This is Guyver on Autopilot! Tom on pure Spider Sense was basically this but with more things around trying to kill him, but BLIND.

So you ignore the question asked… and then take something I never said and act like I did? Is it the fact that if he’s spewing acid and Tom throws a web bomb, the web bomb will be melted? That’s in no way implying the Guyver is vastly superior to Peter. It’s using common sense. If you throw something in acid, it melts.

And if you are right in someone's face shoving a web bomb into their mouth, kinda hard for the acid to hit the bomb.

Added in 1 minute 20 seconds:
Especially if you can get close enough to literally knee them in the face.

Some of the acid… comes from his mouth. And it was acidic enough to melt and ruin the Guyver’s armour. But Zerbie isn’t all punches and acid. He’s also got that deadly beam thing, able to cause lots of destruction and pain.

Added in 1 minute 12 seconds:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGi0y_p2yrg&t=165s

Once again, YouTube failed. Also, he isn’t such a slug himself, able to jump those distances.

[Nagoda]

So you ignore the question asked… and then take something I never said and act like I did? Is it the fact that if he’s spewing acid and Tom throws a web bomb, the web bomb will be melted? That’s in no way implying the Guyver is vastly superior to Peter. It’s using common sense. If you throw something in acid, it melts.

And if you are right in someone's face shoving a web bomb into their mouth, kinda hard for the acid to hit the bomb.

Added in 1 minute 20 seconds:
Especially if you can get close enough to literally knee them in the face.

Some of the acid… comes from his mouth. And it was acidic enough to melt and ruin the Guyver’s armour. But Zerbie isn’t all punches and acid. He’s also got that deadly beam thing, able to cause lots of destruction and pain.

Added in 1 minute 12 seconds:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGi0y_p2yrg&t=165s

Once again, YouTube failed. Also, he isn’t such a slug himself, able to jump those distances.

First off, that was from the tentacle right next to his mouth as seen with the other two tentacles firing acid. Secondly, that's the wrong Zerbebuth. That ones from the older OVA compared to the 2005 one you have.

[Voyager]

Ok, my mistake.

But still. Aside from the web bomb down the mouth, what can they really do to the Zoanoids? Normally webbing them up isn’t gonna do much. They can just break out. And they’re strong enough to deal with the physical blows.

Also, how do the Spidermen defeat Tony. I’ve asked before, and no answer. Tony’s fast, powerful and durable. Oh, and you didn’t answer my inquiry about the Nanotech hammers. You or Bacon (can’t remember) insisted the Spidermen would take them like champs and be “fine”. Do you think that is the case when they’ve proven to be able to stagger Thanos and cause bloodshed from the purple man? Not to mention what they’ll do when they’re outnumbered, whenever Mace and the Arbiter are inevitably defeated.

The Spidermen can’t fight off a majority of my team at once. Even if they can hold out against the Zoanoids and Tony (and Tyranids), there’ll be more enemies to come.

[Nagoda]

Ok, my mistake.

But still. Aside from the web bomb down the mouth, what can they really do to the Zoanoids? Normally webbing them up isn’t gonna do much. They can just break out. And they’re strong enough to deal with the physical blows.

Also, how do the Spidermen defeat Tony. I’ve asked before, and no answer. Tony’s fast, powerful and durable. Oh, and you didn’t answer my inquiry about the Nanotech hammers. You or Bacon (can’t remember) insisted the Spidermen would take them like champs and be “fine”. Do you think that is the case when they’ve proven to be able to stagger Thanos and cause bloodshed from the purple man? Not to mention what they’ll do when they’re outnumbered, whenever Mace and the Arbiter are inevitably defeated.

The Spidermen can’t fight off a majority of my team at once. Even if they can hold out against the Zoanoids and Tony (and Tyranids), there’ll be more enemies to come.

Depending on which spiderman goes to fight Tony, yes I think they will survive being hit by those hammers. They've proven to be able to stagger Thanos, but so did Spiderman's own blows. He got a drop of blood from Thanos, and then got half his face plate broken by being punched multiple times by Thanos's fist without the power stone or the gauntlet, then ripped the suit apart. Tom's Spider-Man has power in his blows. He might not eventually overcome Tony due to experience, but he can hamper him vastly with webbing and tearing off bits of the armor. And before you say Tony can rebuild his armor if it gets torn off, he only has enough nanometal left in his suit to make a helmet by the end of infinity war. If enough of his nanotech is torn off his body, he'll be open to being hit by anything else. He might not beat Tony, but he can get rid of a lot of that nanotech before falling. Raimi Spider-Man doesn't know who Iron Man is, but considering the man is shooting lasers and missiles at him, is going to do his best to beat him down. Raimi Spider-Man literally took several full body punches from a Giant Sandman while being held to a steel beam by Venom choking him with webbing around his throat, and he got back up and finished the fight. He can take a hammer to the face from Iron Man fine. As for beating Iron Man, he's not limited in webbing like the others. Tony could adapt to get rid of the webbing on his suit but then more and more webbing gets shot onto him. Not sure how well Garfield's Spiderman will take it but he has been punched by lightning repeatedly and goes on to fight the Rhino at the end of his second film. Plus, every Spider-Man here has shown strength to lift up entire buildings falling on them. They should be able to punch away some of that nanotech.

Added in 1 minute 24 seconds:
As for the Zoanoid Question, they are durable enough to withstand punches and such yes, but are they strong enough to survive being suffocated? Synevite maybe since he's an octopus.

Added in 1 minute 58 seconds:
It has also come to my attention that broken lightsaber equals explosion. A small explosion sure, but I don't think the jedi want that happening in their hand.


Added in 53 seconds:
Also learned that you can't use timestamped youtube links on the forums for some odd reason. or the short links. Or if it has the @ thing with the channel on the end. Good thing to know when posting youtube videos in arguements.

[Voyager]

I got ninja’d, so here’s the part that doesn’t relate to what you said.

And, I’ve already discussed on why Mace loses, and Magneto is knocked out early (thanks to either a repulsor beam or the force), so that leaves the Arbiter, who’s skill is great and will probably kill someone, most likely Ultraman. The Arbiter, however, will be outnumbered and eventually taken down.

Magneto wakes up either after his team is already dead or incap’d, or while it’s already a lost cause, or maybe he doesn't even wake up and stays incap’d. And yeah he’s taken out early because it’s out of character for Tony and Anakin not to take him out as soon as he displays or even tries to display his power. Tony sees a dude raising his hands like his buddy Strange and doesn’t think it’s a threat? Impossible.

Added in 5 minutes 49 seconds:

Depending on which spiderman goes to fight Tony, yes I think they will survive being hit by those hammers. They've proven to be able to stagger Thanos, but so did Spiderman's own blows. He got a drop of blood from Thanos, and then got half his face plate broken by being punched multiple times by Thanos's fist without the power stone or the gauntlet, then ripped the suit apart. Tom's Spider-Man has power in his blows. He might not eventually overcome Tony due to experience, but he can hamper him vastly with webbing and tearing off bits of the armor. And before you say Tony can rebuild his armor if it gets torn off, he only has enough nanometal left in his suit to make a helmet by the end of infinity war. If enough of his nanotech is torn off his body, he'll be open to being hit by anything else. He might not beat Tony, but he can get rid of a lot of that nanotech before falling. Raimi Spider-Man doesn't know who Iron Man is, but considering the man is shooting lasers and missiles at him, is going to do his best to beat him down. Raimi Spider-Man literally took several full body punches from a Giant Sandman while being held to a steel beam by Venom choking him with webbing around his throat, and he got back up and finished the fight. He can take a hammer to the face from Iron Man fine. As for beating Iron Man, he's not limited in webbing like the others. Tony could adapt to get rid of the webbing on his suit but then more and more webbing gets shot onto him. Not sure how well Garfield's Spiderman will take it but he has been punched by lightning repeatedly and goes on to fight the Rhino at the end of his second film. Plus, every Spider-Man here has shown strength to lift up entire buildings falling on them. They should be able to punch away some of that nanotech.

Added in 1 minute 24 seconds:
As for the Zoanoid Question, they are durable enough to withstand punches and such yes, but are they strong enough to survive being suffocated? Synevite maybe since he's an octopus.

Added in 1 minute 58 seconds:
It has also come to my attention that broken lightsaber equals explosion. A small explosion sure, but I don't think the jedi want that happening in their hand.

What’s going to cause an explosion in either Jedi’s hand, may I ask? Spider Man’s webbing won’t It took an incredible amount of force to do it, from the two most powerful force users of their era.

Anyways, onto the Zoanoids, I never actually found anything that suggested they needed to breath, as they don’t function like normal animals. This is suggested by the fact they don’t need to eat. Even if they can get suffocated, doubt it’ll affect Synevite.

Anyways, onto Tony. Remember, it’s not Tony fighting all of them at once, but it’s a 3v3 at least, and a 19v3 if we count the Tyranids. Thus, Tony will be less pressed to fight harder and more careful, and room for error will be more manageable. Tony could beat any Spider-Man in a 1v1. Also, the Spidermen didn’t hold up entire buildings. Lots of rubble fell on them and they were able to lift it, but not an entire building’s worth. That’s silly.

[Nagoda]

I got ninja’d, so here’s the part that doesn’t relate to what you said.

And, I’ve already discussed on why Mace loses, and Magneto is knocked out early (thanks to either a repulsor beam or the force), so that leaves the Arbiter, who’s skill is great and will probably kill someone, most likely Ultraman. The Arbiter, however, will be outnumbered and eventually taken down.

Magneto wakes up either after his team is already dead or incap’d, or while it’s already a lost cause, or maybe he doesn't even wake up and stays incap’d. And yeah he’s taken out early because it’s out of character for Tony and Anakin not to take him out as soon as he displays or even tries to display his power. Tony sees a dude raising his hands like his buddy Strange and doesn’t think it’s a threat? Impossible.

Added in 5 minutes 49 seconds:

Depending on which spiderman goes to fight Tony, yes I think they will survive being hit by those hammers. They've proven to be able to stagger Thanos, but so did Spiderman's own blows. He got a drop of blood from Thanos, and then got half his face plate broken by being punched multiple times by Thanos's fist without the power stone or the gauntlet, then ripped the suit apart. Tom's Spider-Man has power in his blows. He might not eventually overcome Tony due to experience, but he can hamper him vastly with webbing and tearing off bits of the armor. And before you say Tony can rebuild his armor if it gets torn off, he only has enough nanometal left in his suit to make a helmet by the end of infinity war. If enough of his nanotech is torn off his body, he'll be open to being hit by anything else. He might not beat Tony, but he can get rid of a lot of that nanotech before falling. Raimi Spider-Man doesn't know who Iron Man is, but considering the man is shooting lasers and missiles at him, is going to do his best to beat him down. Raimi Spider-Man literally took several full body punches from a Giant Sandman while being held to a steel beam by Venom choking him with webbing around his throat, and he got back up and finished the fight. He can take a hammer to the face from Iron Man fine. As for beating Iron Man, he's not limited in webbing like the others. Tony could adapt to get rid of the webbing on his suit but then more and more webbing gets shot onto him. Not sure how well Garfield's Spiderman will take it but he has been punched by lightning repeatedly and goes on to fight the Rhino at the end of his second film. Plus, every Spider-Man here has shown strength to lift up entire buildings falling on them. They should be able to punch away some of that nanotech.

Added in 1 minute 24 seconds:
As for the Zoanoid Question, they are durable enough to withstand punches and such yes, but are they strong enough to survive being suffocated? Synevite maybe since he's an octopus.

Added in 1 minute 58 seconds:
It has also come to my attention that broken lightsaber equals explosion. A small explosion sure, but I don't think the jedi want that happening in their hand.

What’s going to cause an explosion in either Jedi’s hand, may I ask? Spider Man’s webbing won’t It took an incredible amount of force to do it, from the two most powerful force users of their era.

Anyways, onto the Zoanoids, I never actually found anything that suggested they needed to breath, as they don’t function like normal animals. This is suggested by the fact they don’t need to eat. Even if they can get suffocated, doubt it’ll affect Synevite.

Anyways, onto Tony. Remember, it’s not Tony fighting all of them at once, but it’s a 3v3 at least, and a 19v3 if we count the Tyranids. Thus, Tony will be less pressed to fight harder and more careful, and room for error will be more manageable. Tony could beat any Spider-Man in a 1v1. Also, the Spidermen didn’t hold up entire buildings. Lots of rubble fell on them and they were able to lift it, but not an entire building’s worth. That’s silly.

I never said he was fighting them all at once, I said they all had feats that showed they could take the hit from the hammer blows, and had the strength to knock off some nanotech during their bout with him. Also the Tyranids don't necessarily have to fight the spiders. They could very well head off to help Saber fight the Arbiter, or jump Mace Windu with the Jedi. I also agreed with you that Mace dies in a lightsaber fight against both Anakin and Obi Wan. What I don't agree with is that Magneto also won't notice two guys with laser swords that have metal hilts on the team with the metal man and not deciding to either take them away leading to a force vs magnetism battle, or crushing the hilts like he does to police cars and leading to that explosion in the hand. He can sense metal passively remember? Then he dies to Anakin being angry with the force or get knocked out by Iron man yes yes I know you've been going on about that for over five pages now. Webbing won't break a lightsaber, but it can blind a Jedi if they are holding or choking someone in the air with the Force. Zoanoids might not function like normal animals, but they are still the evolution of Humans, and Humans need to oxygen. Synevite is an aquatic being so he doesn't really have the giant reptilian mouth Zerbebuth does, nor does he talk as much shit as Zerbebuth does. Plus Garfield Spider-Man likes to aim for the face with his webbing when taunting his enemies as they talk.

As for Spiderman lifting entire buildings, you know what I meant. Funny enough, Garfield Spiderman doesn't have a lifting a collapsed building feat.

[Voyager]

I never said he was fighting them all at once, I said they all had feats that showed they could take the hit from the hammer blows, and had the strength to knock off some nanotech during their bout with him. Also the Tyranids don't necessarily have to fight the spiders. They could very well head off to help Saber fight the Arbiter, or jump Mace Windu with the Jedi. I also agreed with you that Mace dies in a lightsaber fight against both Anakin and Obi Wan. What I don't agree with is that Magneto also won't notice two guys with laser swords that have metal hilts on the team with the metal man and not deciding to either take them away leading to a force vs magnetism battle, or crushing the hilts like he does to police cars and leading to that explosion in the hand. He can sense metal passively remember? Then he dies to Anakin being angry with the force or get knocked out by Iron man yes yes I know you've been going on about that for over five pages now. Webbing won't break a lightsaber, but it can blind a Jedi if they are holding or choking someone in the air with the Force. Zoanoids might not function like normal animals, but they are still the evolution of Humans, and Humans need to oxygen. Synevite is an aquatic being so he doesn't really have the giant reptilian mouth Zerbebuth does, nor does he talk as much shit as Zerbebuth does. Plus Garfield Spider-Man likes to aim for the face with his webbing when taunting his enemies as they talk.

As for Spiderman lifting entire buildings, you know what I meant. Funny enough, Garfield Spiderman doesn't have a lifting a collapsed building feat.

In neither clip does he lift an entire building. In SM2 he’s lifting a heavy metal wall, which is impressive, I give him that, but not a building. In Homecoming Spidey lifts lots of heavy concrete(?) rubble, not an entire building.

This is a building. In neither clip does he lift anything like this.


I didn’t ever say you said it’d be a 1v3, and I agree with your points about them being able to take the hits and do some damage to the nanotech, I was just implying that he’s not alone. But we must remember too, about the Nanotech, even after Thanos ripping the helmet off, it was able to come back, and was first damaged when Tony was punched with immense power, even without the power stone. It’s more of a testament to the power of Thanos, than the weakness of the Mk 50.

Tyranid point? Agree, but they could mess up anyone they target if the foe isn’t careful, and are a force to be reckoned with.

Magneto point? I only reiterate my Magneto point so much because I need to keep bringing it up to keep it relevant and not forgotten, as I really think it matters, more than anything else. With the Tug of war point, I think it’s reasonable to assume that the Jedi know what the consequences are, and think it’s safer to let Magneto just take them away and get them back when he’s dealt with, which as we’ve established, is early and soon. Webbing could absolutely mess with the Jedi, but they’ll be able to see it coming, just like how the Spidermen have their spidey senses. Saber, too.

Unfortunately for the Spidey’s webbing up Zerbie’s mouth isn’t as easy as a normal human’s. He’s still got that wide grimace of a reptilian-crustacean face. If he gets hit in the front he’s still got the sides to breath from. Also, not sure how the force field is going to help here, maybe against the Arbiter’s plasma guns?

Overall, I think we both provide good points, but the lack of Magneto is really what dooms Bacon here.

And as we’ve been warring for so long, I don’t want it to get toxic, and we’ve got to remain civil. Arguments as long as this can devolve into more aggressive posts that eventually target the users themselves. I’ve seen it and we shouldn’t let it ruin what we’re doing here.

[Nagoda]

This has been fun. Going to head off the sleep now and wish you luck with whichever other person hops into the discussion.

[Voyager]

This has been fun. Going to head off the sleep now and wish you luck with whichever other person hops into the discussion.

Ah well, as long as we’re nice and friends at the end of the day.

But seriously, I think I have this in the bag. The real problem is just convincing people, thus my repetition of the same few vital points that mark a VV!

VOYAGER VICTORY!

[Voyager]

Lisker being offed is probably another thing that contributes to Bacon’s loss here. Lisker would be another deadly foe capable of going toe to toe with anyone on my team. With him being assassinated, it puts more pressure on Bacon’s team, and leads to a heavier outnumbering. If Lisker was here, I’d consider a win from Bacon, but as he’s not, I think I can win this solidly.

And for newcomers before voting:

The main fight is also going to be even harder for Bacon’s team seeing as though we’ve established it’s just Mace, the Arbiter and the Spidermen fighting the majority of my team, perhaps a half functioning Iron Man if Magneto can pull something off before he’s taken out for a bit.

A 5v23 (including the Tyranids) is not something Bacon wants to fight and by the time Magneto joins the fight again it’ll be too late.

Mace loses to the Jedi. Anakin would probably want to face Mace after his disagreements about the council and have Obi Wan backing him.
Arbiter probably has the upper hand against his foes until backup arrives.
And the Spider-Man can fight an evenly matched fight with Tony and the Zoanoids, probably with my team gaining the upper hand as time passes on, thanks to FRIDAY’s scanning techniques.

If the fighters go another way, I can still see a multitude of combinations leading to a victory for me. Even a half functioning Tony is a huge threat, as are the Jedi and Zoanoids.

Oh, and the Spidey’s dont really have a reliable way to put Tony down.

[Voyager]

Ok, final pointers for my team’s victory.

-Numbers.
-Two powerful force users, both are equal matches to Bacon’s.
-Tony. Just everything about Tony. His power, speed, weaponry, durability, intelligence, tactics, character, and his HUD’s analysing ability. We haven’t really touched on it, but it can:

Analyse Fight Patterns
Analyse the Battlefield
FRIDAY can suggest courses of action to better the fight
Threat Assessment
And more stuff along those lines.

-Precognition (Jedi, Saber) May be useful against Magneto.
-Tyranids. Able to rip and tear, as well as having deadly weapons which, if they connect, will devour the foe’s flesh. Numbers.
-Inhuman Zoanoids. These two will be able to bear things normal humans can’t, and have great strength and damage resistance. In the case of Synevite, his strengths go as far as being completely resistant to blunt attacks and having regeneration.
Zerbebuth and Ultraman having some form of forcefield.

Counters:

Magneto: Precognition from Saber or the Jedi, as well as Tony’s HUD will allow my team to recognise Magneto as a primary threat, and he will be dealt with accordingly. Iron Man and The Jedi can quickly knock him out at the least with the force or a repulsor.

Mace Windu: While a strong Jedi, he even considered Anakin as an equal, and Obi Wan not far behind. His duellist abilities are great, as he was able to get the upper hand on Sidious, although it’s debated as to whether Sidious threw the duel. Anakin would want to get revenge for Mace’s refusal to allow him to become a master, and would likely bring Obi Wan with him. A two vs one, especially with two top tier Jedi, isn’t a win for Mace. He can also be blasted by Tony, Ultraman, and if caught off guard, attacked by a Zoanoid or Saber.

Arbiter: A great warrior who’s skills are near unmatched. This is, until now. Many on my team are capable of winning against him, with the Jedi and Saber being good swordsman capable of besting the Elite. Can be blasted by Tony and Ultraman, and ragdolled by the force or Zoanoids, even if Zerbie is a jobber. He’s still strong.

Spidey’s: The most annoying foe. All 3 are strong, agile, smart and able to quip on par with Tony. However, this isn’t a fight they can win. They have no real answer to Tony, and the Jedi’s force abilities combined with Ultraman’s beams will give them plenty of trouble. Webbing up the likes of the Zoanoids won’t help much, as they’re too physically strong to contain, and only a lucky web bomb down the throat could potentially stop Zerbebuth, as a reptilian. Synevite’s cephalopod-esque physiology probably frees him up from having to breath through the mouth. If they’re caught out by Zerbie or Synevite, they’d be in serious trouble, not to mention Tony’s absurd arsenal, which would hurt them too.

Anyways, I hope you guys actually read this before voting, and I hope this convinces you to vote Voyager. Thank you for your attention

[Demon Lord Gira]

I've been putting off analyzing this fight because... it's a clusterfuck. Both sides have clear distinct advantages over the other and that makes things really hard to decide. First we'll start with Voyager:

+Numbers advantage is indisputable. Bacon has 6 fighters to Voyager's 23.
+Saber and her up close fighting skills. If someone like Arbiter, Mace, or one of the Spideys tries coming at her and she's ready for it...



They're getting blasted into a wall and crumpled, end of story.

+Two of the finest duelist of the Prequel era, and one who especially is more than happy to play dirty by Jedi standards.
+Iron man and his durability, long ranged bombardment, speed, etc.

Now, for Bacon's advantages:

+Magneto. Magneto doesn't care much about how magnetic metals are, he can still do his thing and be a massive threat. There's a decent amount of metal around here for him to start chucking around or use against Voyager's team, like Saber's sword and Anakin and Obi-Wan's light sabers.
+The Spideys. These guys are fast, durable, strong, and going to be very hard to hit. MCU Spidey has Insta-kill mode to tender the Tyranids null and void, and their constant quips and insults will definitely cause the more temperamental/ego driven members of Voyager's team, like Zerbenuth and Anakin, to tilt and be easy to play around.
+Mace Windu and Thel, the former THE finest duelist of the Prequel era, and the latter a cunning strategist and the Master Chief's equal on the battlefield. Both having near insta-death swords helps.

Then, there's the downsides both teams have:

Voyager:

-Egos. We all know how easy it is for Anakin to be gung ho about things and rush in without a plan or go against what Obi-Wan says. Zerbebuth likewise was utterly floored that anything could breach his armor and was so full of himself. Saber herself, especially in the Fate route of Fate/Stay Night, can be rather hot-headed and try to do her own thing. And Tony can be insufferable to be around. Of course there are those like Obi-Wan and Ultraman who can and will be happy to work as a team with others, but this group can be prone to tilting and trying to do their own thing or getting lured into obvious traps.
-There's a lot of metal on Voyager's team. The light sabers, iron man's suit, Saber's armor and sword, all stuff Magneto can and will use against them or restrain them with. Saber can at least despawn her armor and sword, but that leaves her heavily neutered as a fighter. And while it is possible for Anakin especially to just Force Push Magneto away or Force Pull him forward, I see it being more likely he and Obi-Wan will try to Force Pull their Light Sabers back, and if too much stress is placed on them, they will blow up, robbing both of them of their primary offensive tool. Iron Man's suit can regenerate, but there's a limit to that as seen in the fight against Thanos. And if Magneto can do to Iron Man what Wanda was doing to Thanos... That's going to not end well.
-3 minute timer on Ultraman is moreso a lesser issue because sheer numbers, but it is something to be noted. Ultraman does not have long to work with here, and this fight will easily last longer than 3 minutes, so once he's gone there goes all the utility he brought to the team.

Bacon:

-They are outnumbered horrendously, and that is bad news for Magneto. Magneto really doesn't want people to look at him while he's doing his thing, not here, and while three Spideys slinging around, or rather two while one is in insta-kill mode handling the Tyranids and then will be slinging around with the others, you just need more to ensure Magneto can stay safe. If Saber especially can close the distance on him, he ain't living getting blasted into the nearest wall or cut down. He's going to really need to make effective use of his powers to ruin everyone's day, which he certainly can, but easier said than done.

Voyager's win condition here is simple: Kill Magneto, then rout the rest. If things go in his favor, the Spideys will be the last ones standing. Thel outside of his cloaking has no way of protecting himself from being Force Pulled or Pushed around, and Mace isn't going to have an easy time against both Anakin and Obi-Wan. He just isn't. Zerbebuth and Syvenite especially are going to be the last people Magneto wants to have get in his face, because he is not surviving them.

Bacon's win condition as such is the opposite: Protect the president and draw all eyes off him best they can. And he has a damn good comp to do that. MCU Spidey's Insta-Kill mode makes quick work of the Tyranid swarm, and both the Arbiter and Mace are terrifying to deal with up close. Mace isn't exactly soloing both Anakin and Obi-Wan, but he can distract them long enough for Magneto to get to work, and if both of them lose their light sabers while dueling Mace? They're dead. Thel can go invisible and be an assassin in the snowy landscape and use that to effectively keep the likes of the Zoanoids busy trying to handle him. Syvenite without water hurts him here. And Tony isn't going to enjoy having most of his armor crushed inward or stripped from him.

This is a frustratingly close fight, and as seen through the six pages this match went on, both sides have very clear and valid arguments. However, if someone were to put me at gunpoint and force me to choose a side, I'd have to lean Bacon ever so slightly. His team is perfectly suited for what it is meant to do, and Voyager's team, while extremely powerful, has enough flaws for Bacon's to exploit and allow for Magneto to start turning the battlefield upside down. This is not a stomp, this can easily go either way, but all the ways I see this match playing out, Magneto just being able to do what he can as he can is such a huge factor in Bacon's favor.

[GodzillavsRayquaza]

So, this is probably the longest argument that’s ever been had in a tournament. It has more posts than some previous tournaments’ item shop threads did lol.

There’s a lot going on here. So let’s strip things down to the essentials.

Iron Man’s suit is mostly titanium. Magneto has displayed the capability to affect constructs of mostly titanium, which makes sense, due to his sheer level of control over magnetism (I hear he’s the master of it, after all). Magneto’s full focus will likely be on Iron Man at the beginning, which is fine, because three Spider-Men, a trained warrior of the Covenant, and the duelist master of the Jedi Council are all going to be rushing forward in front of him.

The Tyranids can deal gruesome damage if given the chance, but Instant Kill mode, alongside Mace Windu’s lightsaber flurry and the Arbiter’s skills with his own blade, should deal with them relatively quickly. The Termagant’s Devourers are the only true threat of them, as these are not exactly the heavy units like those found on my team. Rippers and Hormagaunts rely on overwhelming targets in melee, which is unlikely to happen here. The Devourers are deadly if they connect, and they likely will against Arbiter due to him lacking the speed and preternatural senses of his allies, but Mace and the Peters can avoid them unless the Termagants get right up to them before firing, and getting close to a master Jedi or a Spider-Man is unlikely for a creature like a Termagant.

Then comes Voyager’s actual warriors. But, if Iron Man has been defeated by Magneto at this point, which he likely has unless Tony instantly opened fire with everything he had against an enemy he’s never met before, then Bacon’s warriors have potent back up. Remember, there’s bridges and buildings here, and Magneto is more than willing to pull crap like lifting a stadium up and dropping it on opposition. Or tearing the buildings or bridges apart and raining down a hail of sharp, jagged metal.

Yes, Zerbebuth’s armor is durable enough to handle these things, but you know what isn’t? His eyes. Magneto is more than capable of precision in addition to causing a maelstrom when needed.

Obi-Wan and Anakin are not going to use the Force to break Magneto’s neck. They may hold him in place, but they’re not gonna just kill him from a distance. They also aren’t going to be doing it from a crazy distance, they’ll have to get close to do what they want with the Force, time for Magneto to attack them in turn. I’m going to assume Anakin and Obi-Wan don’t have too much iron in their diets, enough has been picked apart here lmao, so Magneto would need to use projectiles on them, which they could block with the Force. However, that’s when their lightsabers come into play, against them.

If a lightsaber is crushed, it can potentially be… violent. Take a look at Rey and Kylo breaking one in half, and the explosion that follows. A Kyber Crystal shattering like that in one’s hands would be crippling. And if it doesn’t explode that way, Magneto would likely use the shards as weapons, fast enough to where the Jedi would struggle to react in time. The same holds true if Anakin’s metallic hand were to be turned against him, especially with how sharp those fingers on it are.

And if it comes down to Magneto’s magnetism vs one of the Jedi’s Force in moving an item towards the other, Magneto wins that tug of war/shoving contest. No argument here, the highest feats of the two working together with the Force and putting in significant effort are around things Magneto did casually.

That all depends on them both not being separated. If they do get separated, Mace can demolish one of them in a duel. Or a Spider-Man could web the lightsaber out of their hands and smack them. The Arbiter would overwhelm Obi-Wan, but Anakin could likely beat him in a duel, but that’s still a fight that’ll take quite some time which Anakin isn’t helping his allies or taking anyone out. So, neither scenario is super favorable.

Saber either needs to dispel her armor and weapon or risk them getting taken and used against her. She’s at a disadvantage regardless, and even if she makes her sword invisible, Magneto can still sense it. Now, Magneto likely couldn’t do this while dealing with the Jedi, but he doesn’t need to, because what Bacon’s other combatants specialize in is distraction. Spider-Men are swinging all over the place in bright red and blue clothes while cracking quips, throwing punches, and tying foes up. Meanwhile, Mace is a whirling dervish of purple death. Voyager’s team is going to be fully focused on them right up until Magneto is about to drop the hammer, regardless of if they understand his threat because they’ll be right up on them the entire time. And even if they can focus on Magneto, he’s not going to hover right up to them, he tends to keep quite a distance as he attacks.

Now, if we say that Saber’s sword and armor are actually just magic and thus couldn’t be affected, that is an issue. However, Saber lacks much of a counter to Magneto dropping a building or bridge on her, so…

Ultraman is a strong warrior, but he will not be enough. He can’t carry his team to victory here, especially with his preference for engaging in melee for most of his time limit and only using his more powerful abilities near the end.

This is a difficult fight, I described one of many scenarios possible here, but I simply think more scenarios end with Bacon’s team victorious here due to a better overall quality of his warriors and the presence of Magneto’s raw power.