Toho Kingdom

Spuro wrote: ↑Sun Jun 20, 2021 3:47 pm

LSD Jellyfish wrote: ↑Sun Jun 20, 2021 3:43 pm Labeling a post a "straw man", without explanation is also a bit suspicious to me as well.

I didn't label it that, though? That was the post I was quoting.

To be clear I was calling out Gawdziller as well. I was saying that it'S unfair for a member to have feelings (Spuro) and repeatedly be labeled a "strawman" and nothing else. I'm indicating that this doesn't need to cause a big outrage or controversy about everything.

The Kumonga were attacking a dock and may have burst out of a dead Manda, and their upper half recalls an isopod or rolly-polly bug so that's a big part of why they don't feel very "spidery" to me. They feel ocean-crustacean rather than land arachnid.
I do think Toho forced a nameslap here like Hasbro made a character in Transformers Prime Wheeljack just because he was concieved as an engineer.
I feel the antennae are the tipping point that really makes it not feel spidery.

I have no problems with the Hedorah/Space Amoeba homage: I loved seeing an arthorpod kaiju do a quick-fix regeneration to bypass the involved process of shedding. And it was wonderfully forshadowed by the detection of internal activity inside the supposedly-dead Godzilla.

Jet Jaguar Prototype
Was initially mixed on his design early on, but once I realised it was a tribute to classic mecha like Tetsujin-28 it kinda grew on me.

Rodan
Hated it in the trailer, I compared it to Godzilla 1998. However, after seeing it in the show itself, it works within the context.

Rodan 2nd Form
Same as above, however, I think it works a little better. More unique and identifiable, showing a lot of traits of the 1956 design. Completely fine with how small he was, it leads to him being more unique amongst the crowd, working well with the show's escalation in scale, and also just leads to some really cool visuals (love the shot in episode 11 of a bunch of Rodans around Godzilla). Wtf was up with the big burning one though?

Godzilla Aquatilis
Bit of a mediocre design, I think the dorsal fins look out of place. I think if they were shaped a little bit more loosely then it could've worked better for me. Not too bad though, I wish it got more screentime in the show.

Anguirus
Badass, though maybe slightly overdesigned.

Manda
Eiji Yamamori and Yuji Kaneko's artwork looks really great. However, I felt the CGI model didn't quite capture it as well as it could have. I was also disappointed Manda really didn't do much of anything at all. Hell, the only times you ever get to really see the face all that well is either when Mandas die, are about to die, or are already dead.

Salunga
Salunga is a chad. Not much of an original kaiju, but I love him. The unintentionally silly moments also add some character to him.

Godzilla Amphibia
So glad that Toho acknowledged Varan. The head is basically perfect, the rest of the body is a mixed bag though. I think my issue with Amphibia (and Aquatilis) might be that it feels like there's too different design philosophies going on. In Amphibia's case, they try to make the head accurate to Varan, with all the bumps, divots, and other details. Meanwhile the rest of the body for Amphibia just kinda looks lackluster. I understand that it's sort of supposed to be an in-between phase. I think it could've looked better, but I still like it.

Jet Jaguar Beta/PP
Probably the best redesign of Jet Jaguar we'll ever see. He is also just in general a great modernisation of the character, loved that they made the Yun AI become Jet Jaguar. He pays a lot of respect to the original, without any need to mock it.

Kumonga
Pretty cool, wish it was called Megalon but whatever I like it. One thing that disappointed me with all the Kumonga variants was that they lacked any real impact story-wise. They're just there for a dramatic action scene. It was awesome, don't get me wrong, but I was disappointed by the lack of any acknowledgment of them past episode 9. They're a big population of virtually unkillable bugs that are currently propagating in Tokyo, I'd argue they're the biggest threat next to Godzilla. At least all the Rodan's can be killed with ease

Kamanga
The art from Kaneko and Yamamori looks a little weird (the Gigan hands look ridiculously oversized and just out of place), but the CG model actually looks very good.

Hanega
It's the regular Kumonga but with wings, it's cool but unnecessary.

Zenbunga
I think that this one looks just a bit too much like a weird mishmash of the different design ideas.

Godzilla Terrestris
A little goofy, but really cool. The best of the Godzilla designs before Ultima, it looks very consistent throughout every part of his body. Also shooting the smoke rings like Minilla is a nice touch.

Godzilla Ultima
I was unbelievably disappointed when Netflix's Twitter revealed the full design artwork at first. Mainly the (still ridiculous) thick legs were a massive turn-off. However it's grown a lot on me, the third trailer is what sold me on it. I do wish that they'd worked a little more on the jaw though since I felt that the face (specifically the lower jaw) wasn't translated from 2D to 3D as well as it could've been. Makes him look more goofy than menacing in some shots.

Meganulon
It's the original Meganulon, and it's only around for like 10 seconds. It was a really neat surprise for the finale.

Mechagodzilla (or Robogodzilla apparently???)
Beautiful. Showa meets Kiryu. Potential perfection.

Inferno Rodan wrote: ↑Sun Jun 20, 2021 6:39 am THANK YOU. Finally someone else noticed this. I was getting really tired of seeing people say SP Kumonga looks like Kumonga. It's just factually incorrect. There's really nothing spider-like (and thus Kumonga-like) about it aside from being an 8-limbed arthropod

Exactly. Kumonga literally looks nothing like its past two incarnations and should've been called Megalon. Since this is a dead convo, though, that's all I'll say

Rodans: Let's get the negative out of the way first. I abso-damn-lutely hate SP Rodan. The fact they were lifted straight out of Jurassic World and act as weaker Gyaos just annoys the piss out of me. At that point, just make them their own, unique thing like the Meganula. Turning something like Kumonga into canon fodder is one thing... But Rodan? Godzilla '98 treated Godzilla with more respect than this series did to Rodan. Rodan legit went from being one of the few "non-speical" kaiju that could hold his own with Godzilla into something that couldn't even overpower a door. This left a very sour taste in my mouth for multiple episodes until...

Anguirus: LOVE HIM. Love the design, the new "see into the future" bit, and everything about him. Only thing I really don't care for is how small he is compared to the likes of Godzilla, Salunga and Manda. Hopefully he returns into Season 2 in a more... gargantuan form.

Manda: I'm 32 years old and never thought I'd see a Manda design that trades in his normal dragon design for something a bit more... "realistic". And I love it. It still LOOKS and ACTS like Manda, but with a new flavor. The goblin shark head with the bobbit worm-esque body just clicks with me. Really hope we see more.

Kumonga & Evos: So when these were first shown off and rumored to be Kumonga, I HATED them. I hated how they merged Megalon and Gigan into them. I hated how Kumonga didn't look like a spider anymore. And then it was announced it was "Kumanga" and I saw them in action. And I LOVED THEM. They remind me so much of the Blue from Blue Gender, an anime I really enjoy. Then low and behold, the first type *IS* Kumonga. And I just don't know how to feel. I'm leaning on the "I love them" side more and they look much better in action, even if based on a coconut crab more than a spider. I really hope we see a truly bigger, kaiju-sized one later.

Salunga: Calling it. Best new kaiju that will come out of the Reiwa era of these Japanese Godzilla series. I LOVE this dude.

Jet Jaguar: HATED him at first. And as the series progressed, the AI advanced and he was given proper legs and the Anguirus fan staff... I fell in love. I must see more.

Godzilla Forms 1, 2, & 3: I'm already growing tired of Godzilla evolving like a Poke'mon from Shin Godzilla. While I don't want to say I think Titanosaurus, Varan and Gorosaurus were wasted as they were legit just turned into Godzilla forms... But they were wasted as they were legit just turned into Godzilla forms, at least Varan was. The aquatiticwhatsit form looks different enough from Titanosaurus to allow him a proper intro down the road. Same for the Terrestriaswhatsit form for Gorosaurus. But Varan? He ain't coming back from that. The form is legit just Varan with some Godzilla spines. In the end, its not so much I dislike the forms themselves. I'm just tired of Godzilla evolving like a Poke'mon.

Godzilla: I still think he's built like a damn chicken, but he looks better in motion. Still dislike the lower jaw.

Meganulon: Random, but sure. Better than the Shockirus making a random comeback, I guess.

MechaGodzilla: YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEES. SHOWA MECHAGODZILLA! WITH KIRYU INSPIRATIONS! I. LOVE. IT.

Rodan
Love it. Very different look but still unquestionably Rodan. I never envisioned Rodans being this small but it works for the series

Jet Jaguar
Amazing! This character got a full makeover and it is just fantastic! I am not a fan of the voice but in appearance this is a massive thumbs up. JJ went from goofy sidekick contest winner kaiju to a badass warrior robot. Seeing him armed with his spear is plain cool.

Anguirus
The best apart from Godzilla himself. Excellent makeover that still retains the essence of the character and does the character justice. Perfect blend of realism meets hard sci-fi.

Manda
Another great design. More realistic looking and different for an overlooked kaiju that finally gets a respectable appearance. I am not a fan of the fodder status but pretty much other kaiju but Godzilla was that in SP so it doesn't bother me much.

Kumonga
My least favorite but that doesn't mean much because I love all of the designs in some way. This just seems the most conventional and lazy because Kumonga looks almost the same but just in a cartoon form. Nothing really wrong it. Just nothing that makes me amazed.

Salunga
Neat design! Nice to see an original kaiju! Not the best design but still pretty cool and fitting for a unique villain. Very primal and evil looking creature that I hope we get to see more of as time goes on.

Meganulon
Kind of like the Kumonga but harder to grade because their appearance was so brief. However Meganulon are a very underrated kaiju in my opinion so it was awesome to see them again even if they were basically a Shockirius ripoff here.

Mechagodzilla
Not much to go on but the design rules! Looks mostly Showa inspired which is my favorite Mechagodzilla anyway so I'll certainly call that a win! I can't wait to see it's weapons in action!

Godzilla 1-3
It was cool to see unique Godzilla forms pay homage to lesser known monsters in the franchise. Particularly Varan. Godzilla evolving hasn't been done much so I didn't mind seeing it again even if Shin already did it.

Godzilla Ultima
Wow. Easily my favorite design in the whole series. It isn't perfect but it certainly looks mean and menacing. I am particularly a fan of the head. Looks almost like Heisei Gamera. This look was the perfect tone the series was aiming for to fit Godzilla. Just very primal and raw destruction condensed into a wickedly awesome form! I am a fan of the color palette and tusks mainly for this design. I can only hope we get to see Godzilla evolve again and see what else he is capable of! Perhaps to finish off Mechagodzilla?

Cryptid_Liker wrote: ↑Mon Jun 21, 2021 5:53 am

Inferno Rodan wrote: ↑Sun Jun 20, 2021 6:39 am THANK YOU. Finally someone else noticed this. I was getting really tired of seeing people say SP Kumonga looks like Kumonga. It's just factually incorrect. There's really nothing spider-like (and thus Kumonga-like) about it aside from being an 8-limbed arthropod

Exactly. Kumonga literally looks nothing like its past two incarnations and should've been called Megalon. Since this is a dead convo, though, that's all I'll say

I was really disappointed it was called Kumonga. I figured it would be Kamanga, while I thought what became Kamanga would be called Hanega, but was hoping that they'd be called Megalon and Gigan (since y'know, Jet Jaguar's first opponents).

EvaGhidorah01 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 22, 2021 12:05 am

Cryptid_Liker wrote: ↑Mon Jun 21, 2021 5:53 am

Inferno Rodan wrote: ↑Sun Jun 20, 2021 6:39 am THANK YOU. Finally someone else noticed this. I was getting really tired of seeing people say SP Kumonga looks like Kumonga. It's just factually incorrect. There's really nothing spider-like (and thus Kumonga-like) about it aside from being an 8-limbed arthropod

Exactly. Kumonga literally looks nothing like its past two incarnations and should've been called Megalon. Since this is a dead convo, though, that's all I'll say

I was really disappointed it was called Kumonga. I figured it would be Kamanga, while I thought what became Kamanga would be called Hanega, but was hoping that they'd be called Megalon and Gigan (since y'know, Jet Jaguar's first opponents).

Trying to grasp why ANYONE would *want* that Kumonga to actually be... Megalon. Not even just design wise, it does nothing that Megalon, you know, does. They don't burrow, shoot lightning, spit napalm bombs... or even have any actual drills for limbs.

While its obvious the designs used a bit of Megalon for the design (the face, the horn on its ass, the "spade" spikes. But it simply looks EVEN LESS like Megalon than it does Kumonga.

Mac Daddy MM wrote: ↑Tue Jun 22, 2021 1:21 pm

EvaGhidorah01 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 22, 2021 12:05 am

Cryptid_Liker wrote: ↑Mon Jun 21, 2021 5:53 am

Exactly. Kumonga literally looks nothing like its past two incarnations and should've been called Megalon. Since this is a dead convo, though, that's all I'll say

I was really disappointed it was called Kumonga. I figured it would be Kamanga, while I thought what became Kamanga would be called Hanega, but was hoping that they'd be called Megalon and Gigan (since y'know, Jet Jaguar's first opponents).

Trying to grasp why ANYONE would *want* that Kumonga to actually be... Megalon. Not even just design wise, it does nothing that Megalon, you know, does. They don't burrow, shoot lightning, spit napalm bombs... or even have any actual drills for limbs.

While its obvious the designs used a bit of Megalon for the design (the face, the horn on its ass, the "spade" spikes. But it simply looks EVEN LESS like Megalon than it does Kumonga.

Other than the yellow stripes, "Kumonga" looks absolutely nothing like its namesake.

I know the take on Rodan has certainly been picked apart enough – and rightfully so, that generic Pteranodon-looking ass… BUT if I could say one positive thing about it, I quite like the pink/blue/yellow scheme of the “juvenile” Rodan. I feel like a similar color scheme could work beautifully if paired with a better design. It reminds me of some of the early - and very colorful - concept art for Heisei/Fire Rodan that also looked much better than what we got in that movie. Almost like a combination of these two:





As far as Kumonga goes, I've said before in the other thread how Salunga looks way more like Gabara than "Kumonga" looks like Kumonga, so the naming thing still bugs me a bit. But I'll agree with what some others have said that this Kumonga has more traits with Megalon than Kumonga, too. Now, that doesn't mean that I would've preferred it to be called "Megalon" by any stretch. I don't care much for the design period, be it as a redesign or an original kaiju, so its a moot point for me.

Gigantis wrote: ↑Fri Jun 18, 2021 6:54 am
Salunga: Scaley Monke.. but seriously, he's amazing. I do think they could've done a tad better job of making him stand out from Gabara like maybe changing his skin from green to blue or something, but i don't really even care about that, he's AMAZING. I think a huge chunk of that has to do with his teeth. Stuff like him makes me wish other monkey's and apes were used for monsters in fiction, not just gorilla's, because then we'd have more stuff like this!

Agreed with the monkey part, it would be great to see more primate-influenced kaiju, and how scary the teeth are. Also, changing his color scheme could've actually helped a bit, now that I think about it. The Gabara influence would still be there, but not as overwhelming and helps distinguish the two. But he is still freakin' awesome regardless, one of the better designs for any kaiju we've seen from Toho in a while.

Cryptid_Liker wrote: ↑Tue Jun 22, 2021 1:41 pm

Mac Daddy MM wrote: ↑Tue Jun 22, 2021 1:21 pm

EvaGhidorah01 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 22, 2021 12:05 am

I was really disappointed it was called Kumonga. I figured it would be Kamanga, while I thought what became Kamanga would be called Hanega, but was hoping that they'd be called Megalon and Gigan (since y'know, Jet Jaguar's first opponents).

Trying to grasp why ANYONE would *want* that Kumonga to actually be... Megalon. Not even just design wise, it does nothing that Megalon, you know, does. They don't burrow, shoot lightning, spit napalm bombs... or even have any actual drills for limbs.

While its obvious the designs used a bit of Megalon for the design (the face, the horn on its ass, the "spade" spikes. But it simply looks EVEN LESS like Megalon than it does Kumonga.

Other than the yellow stripes, "Kumonga" looks absolutely nothing like its namesake.

That and the eight legs.

And the eight eyes.

And the body shape.

And the yellow webs.

And the fact it eats people.

And that it's talked about in and out of universe as a spider monster instead of the God of an ancient civilization.

But yeah, totally, it's just Megalon.

Kumonga’s literally just a spider, he can absolutely be redesigned in a radical manner.

I don't have a problem with Godzilla evolving over the course of a film/series, but it feels like you don't get much Godzilla at all in SP. Aquatilis/Amphibia go by pretty quick and Terrestris/Ultima largely recreate moments from Shin Godzilla (bombed by the military, reveal of slicing beam). He's set up as this world-ending threat but the focus is largely on the Red Dust and smaller kaiju. Blaring Ifukube's theme every moment he appears on screen (early forms included) gets old pretty quick, too.

Beyond Godzilla it also feels like you don't get many GIANT monsters as well - there's Salunga, the Mandas and a giant Rodan (taken out rather quickly) but the focus is largely on the smaller Rodans, Anguirus and the Kumongas. While I understand this allows for greater interaction with the human characters (and there are some nice moments), it's a mixed bag for me.

I don't take issue with the Mandas and Kumongas, but Rodan and Anguirus keep getting the shaft, especially Anguirus, although I suppose it's better than appearing as bones in the previous anime, or appearing as bones in KOTM, or almost appearing as a beached corpse in the Kiryu films. MV Rodan aside I haven't been impressed by any versions of these kaiju since the Showa era.

So in the end it's really funny to me how Salunga, the 2nd biggest threat in the series, is based on Gabara. In a way I have to give major props to the series for bringing back, or taking hints/design cues, from slightly more obscure Toho kaiju (to casual audiences at least) rather than resorting to yet another story with Mothra, Ghidorah and/or Mecha-G (for now at least...).

Are we to consider the end-credits designs as where the universe goes from here? Or just what the Multiverse has opened up for in the future?

If so I'd say everyone ends up with their traditional niche. Although I'll say I prefer Dark Matter Pteranodon Rodan over the credits Phoenix version.

_JNavs_ wrote: ↑Thu Jun 24, 2021 11:47 pm Are we to consider the end-credits designs as where the universe goes from here? Or just what the Multiverse has opened up for in the future?

If so I'd say everyone ends up with their traditional niche. Although I'll say I prefer Dark Matter Pteranodon Rodan over the credits Phoenix version.

No.

Cryptid_Liker wrote: ↑Tue Jun 22, 2021 1:41 pm

Mac Daddy MM wrote: ↑Tue Jun 22, 2021 1:21 pm

EvaGhidorah01 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 22, 2021 12:05 am

I was really disappointed it was called Kumonga. I figured it would be Kamanga, while I thought what became Kamanga would be called Hanega, but was hoping that they'd be called Megalon and Gigan (since y'know, Jet Jaguar's first opponents).

Trying to grasp why ANYONE would *want* that Kumonga to actually be... Megalon. Not even just design wise, it does nothing that Megalon, you know, does. They don't burrow, shoot lightning, spit napalm bombs... or even have any actual drills for limbs.

While its obvious the designs used a bit of Megalon for the design (the face, the horn on its ass, the "spade" spikes. But it simply looks EVEN LESS like Megalon than it does Kumonga.

Other than the yellow stripes, "Kumonga" looks absolutely nothing like its namesake.

Even the yellow stripes are a bit of a stretch, since Megalon has the same color scheme on his shell.

Cryptid_Liker wrote: ↑Fri Jun 25, 2021 5:33 am

_JNavs_ wrote: ↑Thu Jun 24, 2021 11:47 pm Are we to consider the end-credits designs as where the universe goes from here? Or just what the Multiverse has opened up for in the future?

If so I'd say everyone ends up with their traditional niche. Although I'll say I prefer Dark Matter Pteranodon Rodan over the credits Phoenix version.

No.

No as in we're not supposed to take the classic art designs for anything more than face value?

Disappointing.

_JNavs_ wrote: ↑Thu Jun 24, 2021 11:47 pm Are we to consider the end-credits designs as where the universe goes from here? Or just what the Multiverse has opened up for in the future?

If so I'd say everyone ends up with their traditional niche. Although I'll say I prefer Dark Matter Pteranodon Rodan over the credits Phoenix version.

I'm honestly not sure. I FEEL like it's just supposed to be nods but with the way this show works, maybe it DOES mean more?

Idk, guess we'll have to wait and see


Also agreed.

Wrong spoiler thread, oops.