Are Monster Fights Really That Important?

For the discussion of Shin Godzilla, Godzilla -1.0, the anime trilogy, Godzilla Singular Point and Toho produced and distributed films after 2015. Includes US movies financed by Toho like Detective Pikachu.
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Re: Are Monster Fights Really That Important?

Post by gottatalktothefake »

Yes. Come make fun of me or whatever but I’m tired of pretended I like Godzilla for some big brain 2deep4u shit. I’m a simple man, I see monster fight and I’m happy.
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Re: Are Monster Fights Really That Important?

Post by Tyrant_Lizard_King »

The best kaiju movies are a mix of military battles, monster fights, and apocalyptic destruction sequences. For me a majority of modern films are all worried about the fights and gloss over the destruction and military battles as a result. That's one of the reasons I gravitate towards Shin like I do. That and I've always wanted to see a realistic government procedural takes on a kaiju film in a long while. Shin was very effective in scratching that itch.
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Re: Are Monster Fights Really That Important?

Post by The Zilla in Manila »

I think ambience is the most important element that can make or break a kaiju film for me. But I'm still totally into a great monster throwdown absolutely.
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Re: Are Monster Fights Really That Important?

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Re: Are Monster Fights Really That Important?

Post by Jetty_Jags »

I've been doing a lot of research into genre's and the "rules" for what qualifies a piece of art to fit into a specific genre. Specifically I was looking into film noir which is an interesting case as what qualifies as an example of film noir is highly subjective. While there are common tropes, what might be a classic piece of film noir for one person is very much not for another. Some would go as far to argue it isn't really a genre at all but rather a tone/style/mood. Now the kaiju genre is significantly more rigid in its genre boundaries than something like film noir, but that doesn't mean there are not governing tropes that define it. For this reason I would argue that monster fights are an important element of the kaiju genre for films choosing to focus on multiple monsters. It would be like asking the question, "Are shootouts really that important to westerns?". Yes they are, they function as staples of action sequences for their respective genre. That being said, in both cases they are not the only important trope (not even the only important action trope as others have mentioned military battles and city destruction), nor are they the most important trope for the genre. A successful western doesn't need six shooter battle, but many of the best westerns include them, and have particularly well done shootouts. Similarly a kaiju flick doesn't need monster fights, but some of the most beloved do. I also want to add, just like any genre in art people can pick out whatever genre tropes are their favorite, someone who likes western's for shootouts isn't any more or less a fan of the genre than someone who watches them for the theme of taming the frontier. Similarly a kaiju fan can be both someone who revels exclusively in the monster carnage, as someone who watches for the themes of humanities' hubris.
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xMx
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Re: Are Monster Fights Really That Important?

Post by xMx »

Regardless of what you think that is what people think of when they think of Godzilla so I would say yes.

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Re: Are Monster Fights Really That Important?

Post by tbeasley »

While they are not necessary, they are welcome and appreciated, and once you commit to the idea you shouldn't shy away from showcasing it.

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Re: Are Monster Fights Really That Important?

Post by Desghidorah »

Considering I think we got our era's seminal solo film handled solidly with Shin Godzilla, yes.
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Re: Are Monster Fights Really That Important?

Post by Major sssspielberg! »

I love seeing two critters beat the piss out of eachother, but there's something about seeing Godzilla vaporize the military when he comes ashore in 84, or Rodan crashing onto the bridge in Rodan, or Shin filling the streets with smoke and flame that gives me this feeling...
Like it's beautiful in a perverse way. The same way abandoned buildings or seeing a city pelted by rain or snow gives me a unique sense of awe.
So I guess I'd say that I'd pick a good rampage scene over a monster scrap if I had to.
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Re: Are Monster Fights Really That Important?

Post by Mac Daddy MM »

Yeah, I'm sure everyone on the Earth watches Godzilla and monster movies for the human characters. Just like horror fans watch Friday the 13th movies for their engaging, teen-driven drama stories and disaster movies for the struggles of a small group to find safety as the world falls apart around them. Of course, no body watches said genres for the monsters, blood soaked carnage and scenes of cities being destroyed. That's as crazy as fans of NASCAR watching NASCAR for the fun of it and not with the dark and never spoken desire to see a multi-car pileup.


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Re: Are Monster Fights Really That Important?

Post by AaronMJ90 »

No monster fights? Damn that's a shame. Watching monster fights is my favourite part and without them I am in no rush to watch the films anytime soon.

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Re: Are Monster Fights Really That Important?

Post by Jermobooka »

Fucking yes. My favorite parts of Godzilla movies are when the giant monsters are fighting. I couldn’t care less about the human drama if the kaiju and kaiju action are really good.
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Re: Are Monster Fights Really That Important?

Post by Vakanai »

AK Siwach wrote: Mon Mar 29, 2021 3:57 pm To answer OP. Yes. Just try releasing a Godzilla series without monster fights and see how far it gets.
Shin Godzilla. Monster Planet trilogy. That's four movies in five years.
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Re: Are Monster Fights Really That Important?

Post by _JNavs_ »

Vakanai wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 4:02 pm
AK Siwach wrote: Mon Mar 29, 2021 3:57 pm To answer OP. Yes. Just try releasing a Godzilla series without monster fights and see how far it gets.
Shin Godzilla. Monster Planet trilogy. That's four movies in five years.
The trilogy crashed and burned, and Shin Godzilla isn't a series.
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Re: Are Monster Fights Really That Important?

Post by Vakanai »

_JNavs_ wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 4:10 pm
Vakanai wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 4:02 pm
AK Siwach wrote: Mon Mar 29, 2021 3:57 pm To answer OP. Yes. Just try releasing a Godzilla series without monster fights and see how far it gets.
Shin Godzilla. Monster Planet trilogy. That's four movies in five years.
The trilogy crashed and burned, and Shin Godzilla isn't a series.
The trilogy isn't well liked, but all three movies managed to get released and I'm gonna guess all three made profit.

And Shin Godzilla might not be a series of films, but it has so much new content in rides, videos of rides, short videos, short videos for museums, that I'd argue it's definitely become a series of sorts.
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Re: Are Monster Fights Really That Important?

Post by KingKaiju »

Depends on the film. Is it designed around the monster fights? Then sure! But it comes back to that. The folks who go "GodZiLLa iS JUst aBOut Da fIGhtS!!" are usually people who can't get through one page of a book, and think critics have a hidden agenda.
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Re: Are Monster Fights Really That Important?

Post by godjacob »

Entirely based on the context of the film. A serious commentary piece that's about whatever the Kaiju represents? I think it is better with the fights scaled back to not at all like the original Godzilla film. If it is a creature clash film then the fights should matter more than that as that is the one element you need to get right.
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Re: Are Monster Fights Really That Important?

Post by Keizer »

With regards to the Anime trilogy specifically? No; I think it could have worked just fine with little, or even no action. Godzilla has made good films largely focused on humans and themes before, specifically 54 and 84. It is possible to make a Godzilla film interesting for more reasons than just "big lizard punch robot lizard." That said, I think the lack of fights are the least of what make the Anime trilogy boring. The characters are all one-note at best, exposition drones at worst. The animation is rather choppy looking due to it being 3D disguised as 2D, leading to rather boring visuals. The setting itself is rather plain, in spite of how alien it is. Godzilla himself barely has any on-screen presence, thanks to his minute movement. The music can be okay, but none of it matches up to the best Godzilla has offered.

The Godzilla Anime trilogy offering complex themes could definitely be a good thing, but thanks to the aforementioned issues, many people just do not care at all about what the trilogy has to say. If I wanted to be particularly harsh, I would say that complex themes are the bare minimum I expected from the trilogy, not something I would outright praise it for. I do think people complaining about no monster action specifically are missing the forest for the trees, or are just being a bit too narrow-minded in general, but lack of action alone is hardly the only reason the Anime is divisive.

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Re: Are Monster Fights Really That Important?

Post by gomezm6 »

CrimsonBloodX wrote: Tue Nov 17, 2020 3:09 pm In my opinion, no, they are not important. The Return of Godzilla didn't need another monster to battle Godzilla, and that movie ended up becoming one of my top favorite films in the series. Shin Godzilla was also a solo movie that movie got praise from both critics and fans with nobody being disappointed that there were no other monsters for Godzilla to fight.

But when we heard of all the monsters that were going to be in Planet of the Monsters, we were expecting at least a few good fights featuring monsters that we haven't seen in a long time, like Dogora and Dagahra. The closest we got, however, was Hedorah's battle with Anguirus and Rodan in Beijing, China, that we only saw the aftermath of during the opening credits. When we heard of Mechagodzilla being in City on the Edge of Battle, we were expecting an awesome showdown between Godzilla and Mechagodzilla. Instead, we got a nanometal city fighting Godzilla.
I agree wholeheartedly. If the Godzilla film is good, sometimes you don't need another monster (i.e. Gojira, Gojira 1984, Shin Godzilla), yet it took me forever getting through the anime trilogy because of those same issues - heck the prequel would have been more interesting than what was in the final version (I certainly would have wanted to see more so the different monster fights).

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Re: Are Monster Fights Really That Important?

Post by goji89 »

Yes, because why else are you there for? Now the human element must be at the very least engaging otherwise it becomes a drag. It doesn't have to be oscar worthy acting but passable to get to the monster fights. Or Godzilla going solo against the military if done well.

But yes, monster fights are extremely important.

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