Will Toho use suits?
- Vakanai
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Will Toho use suits?
This is not asking whether you prefer suits or not, or whether you hope Toho will still use suits, but without any personal wants or desires attached, do you logically *think* Toho is interested in using suits again?
A few points to keep in mind:
1. This is discussing full length theatrical films only - not taking into consideration short films for museums like that one honoring the original Godzilla suit actor, or that puppet show for kids, or those videos that play on those pachinko machines or whatever.
2. Shin did not use a suit (a puppet was made but never filmed according to Toho) and the film was widely hugely successful.
3. Again, this is divorced from what you want them to do and focused on what you think they will do.
4. No saying "It's up to the director's vision" or whatever. Take a guess please.
A few points to keep in mind:
1. This is discussing full length theatrical films only - not taking into consideration short films for museums like that one honoring the original Godzilla suit actor, or that puppet show for kids, or those videos that play on those pachinko machines or whatever.
2. Shin did not use a suit (a puppet was made but never filmed according to Toho) and the film was widely hugely successful.
3. Again, this is divorced from what you want them to do and focused on what you think they will do.
4. No saying "It's up to the director's vision" or whatever. Take a guess please.
Last edited by Vakanai on Fri May 01, 2020 4:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Will Toho use suits?
Uh... why not? Isn't that the most logical assumption at this point? We don't even really know what Toho's plan for Godzilla after the Monsterverse is. All we can do is aimlessly speculate...Vakanai wrote:No saying "It's up to the director's vision" or whatever.
Anyway, I'm voting "yes" because I think it will always be a possibility.
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Re: Will Toho use suits?
Well it's not like Toho's against using pratical effects since they did use a massive puppet to portray the Colossal Titan. You never know!
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Re: Will Toho use suits?
Because while it is logical, it's also a boring debate killer. Personally I hope we get both, but that's less fertile ground for discussion than an either or debate. This is pure speculation focused more on "I think" than "I want" where hopefully something more engaging than "artist's choice" will be talked about. At least that's my hope.Terasawa wrote:Uh... why not? Isn't that the most logical assumption at this point? We don't even really know what Toho's plan for Godzilla after the Monsterverse is. All we can do is aimlessly speculate...Vakanai wrote:No saying "It's up to the director's vision" or whatever.
Anyway, I'm voting "yes" because I think it will always be a possibility.
Also voting for it because it'll "always be a possibility" seems like trying to get to that "artist's choice" option still not in spirit of the thread's intent, but I'm not going to be a stickler for it. I just want a debate on why or why not they may or may not use suits vs CGI. It's interesting to me to speculate on that more than saying why not both, but to each their own.
Last edited by Vakanai on Fri May 01, 2020 5:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Will Toho use suits?
Then I'd take my vote back if I could. IMO there's not enough information to have an informed opinion.Vakanai wrote:This is pure speculation focused more on "I think" than "I want" where hopefully something more engaging than "artist's choice" will be talked about. At least that's my hope.
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Re: Will Toho use suits?
As politics has proven from time immemorial - you don't have to be informed to have a thought. Besides, the only information Toho could provide is whether they will use suits or won't use suits, in which case there's no longer a question to debate.Terasawa wrote:Then I'd take my vote back if I could. IMO there's not enough information to have an informed opinion.Vakanai wrote:This is pure speculation focused more on "I think" than "I want" where hopefully something more engaging than "artist's choice" will be talked about. At least that's my hope.
But it isn't like there's nothing to use to make a speculation. We have CG Shin and upcoming Shin Ultraman, CG Shin Ghidorah in a ride, we have that museum movie 1954 recreation suit, other recent suits made too I think. There's enough CG and Suits stuff to form some basis on to make a debate I think. Sometimes the guessing and the debating is part if the fun.
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Re: Will Toho use suits?
Toho might use them less but even Hollywood is bringing some practical fx back.
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Re: Will Toho use suits?
I think "No" mostly because of Shin Godzilla and Shinji Higuchi's reasoning behind the choices made for that film. The use of CGI means less complicated wirework and restrictions of movement are erased. Some practical effects shots might be used (say a foot crushing buildings or a close-up shot) but the majority will likely be computer-generated effects.
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Re: Will Toho use suits?
In the short term, like the next decade or two, we probably won't be seeing many suits simply due to the fact that CGI is still kind of a flashy new toy, and audiences are still wowed by the realism and unrestricted spectacle it can achieve. And Japanese studios (from what little I know) are just getting into the game as far as actual good CGI is concerned, so they'll most likely want to show off their new capabilities and compete with Hollywood effects for the foreseeable future. But somewhere down the line, once CGI has no more room to improve and starts to become old hat, maybe people will develop an interest in filmmaking techniques of the past, and we'll see a resurgence of the 'retro' style.
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Re: Will Toho use suits?
I hope so. Suits, puppets, and miniatures are a stable of Godzilla.
They could always enhance a suit with CGI like the Heisei Gamera trilogy did.
They could always enhance a suit with CGI like the Heisei Gamera trilogy did.
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Re: Will Toho use suits?
I feel like motion capture CG, mixed in with actual city miniatures like most of the Godzilla series has done, would be a good way to go. It would kinda be like suitimation, just with a modern twist to it. Actual puppets and suits however, i wouldn't mind.
Last edited by Gigantis on Sun May 03, 2020 7:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Will Toho use suits?
So this is my first post in this forum. Yipee! So glad to be here finally.
Regarding whether Toho will be using suits, I would say yes they will, but it will be used sparingly. For fast paced monster fighting action that will involve a lot of city destruction around them, I believe they will use suits with miniature city destruction. For monster battles that are slower paced with exchanges of laser beams, atomic breath, etc. I think they will be using CGI for the monsters and again miniature city destruction.
Being a CG animator, I love CGI but I also have a soft spot for suitmation, so when/if Toho creates more movies I hope they don't eliminate suitmation completely. But only time will tell...
Regarding whether Toho will be using suits, I would say yes they will, but it will be used sparingly. For fast paced monster fighting action that will involve a lot of city destruction around them, I believe they will use suits with miniature city destruction. For monster battles that are slower paced with exchanges of laser beams, atomic breath, etc. I think they will be using CGI for the monsters and again miniature city destruction.
Being a CG animator, I love CGI but I also have a soft spot for suitmation, so when/if Toho creates more movies I hope they don't eliminate suitmation completely. But only time will tell...
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Re: Will Toho use suits?
Welcome!daikaijusaurus wrote:So this is my first post in this forum. Yipee! So glad to be here finally.
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Re: Will Toho use suits?
The irony here of course being that the two most recent Toho Godzillas are the stiffest and most immobile in the history of the franchise despite being fully CG.UltramanGoji wrote:The use of CGI means less complicated wirework and restrictions of movement are erased.
Anyway, I suspect we'll be seeing only fully CG Godzillas from here on out. As much as I love suitmation, it just really isn't the best way to bring giant monsters to life in this day and age. I know the Ultra series still does it, but it operates under a different set of rules than Godzilla movies, both visually and budgetarily.
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Re: Will Toho use suits?
Inferno Rodan wrote:The irony here of course being that the two most recent Toho Godzillas are the stiffest and most immobile in the history of the franchise despite being fully CG.UltramanGoji wrote:The use of CGI means less complicated wirework and restrictions of movement are erased.
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Shin easily has the most movement and animation (heh) out of many recent Godzillas. I think Toho could use both suits and CGI moving forward in the future. I think they should always use real miniatures though.
Last edited by LSD Jellyfish on Mon May 04, 2020 7:22 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Will Toho use suits?
Aside from what LSD posted, there's also the matter of Shin's tail being held up constantly and maneuvering about. A small detail, but one that would be entirely dependent on wirework had it been a suit.Inferno Rodan wrote:The irony here of course being that the two most recent Toho Godzillas are the stiffest and most immobile in the history of the franchise despite being fully CG.UltramanGoji wrote:The use of CGI means less complicated wirework and restrictions of movement are erased.
Oh, and literally every aspect of the first two forms would be near impossible or impossible to make look half-decent had it not been for computer imagery and they are far from "stiff".
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Re: Will Toho use suits?
Think about how this would be done with suits:UltramanGoji wrote:Aside from what LSD posted, there's also the matter of Shin's tail being held up constantly and maneuvering about. A small detail, but one that would be entirely dependent on wirework had it been a suit.Inferno Rodan wrote:The irony here of course being that the two most recent Toho Godzillas are the stiffest and most immobile in the history of the franchise despite being fully CG.UltramanGoji wrote:The use of CGI means less complicated wirework and restrictions of movement are erased.
Oh, and literally every aspect of the first two forms would be near impossible or impossible to make look half-decent had it not been for computer imagery and they are far from "stiff".
Now, I'm not saying it can't be done, or I don't want suits to be used, I just think a lot of the fantastic movement shin had and the advantages of using CGI could mix well with suits in the future. Best of both worlds.
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Re: Will Toho use suits?
I know the frame-rate of the GIF dilutes it a bit but the way the tail just absolutely snaps back when firing that initial beam is just fantastic. Powerful movement.
Last edited by UltramanGoji on Mon May 04, 2020 7:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Will Toho use suits?
You think the simple act of walking makes Shin some sort of gymnast or something, so pardon me for not taking you very seriously.LSD Jellyfish wrote:sTiFfest AnD iMobiLe
Shin easily has the most movement and animation (heh) out of many recent Godzillas.
Okay first of all I never said Shin would have looked better if he wasn't CG. Quite the opposite, in fact. And secondly, when I talk about Shin being stiff, I'm obviously referring to he 4th form and not Kamata-kun flopping around like the googly-eyed fish-lizard he is.UltramanGoji wrote:Aside from what LSD posted, there's also the matter of Shin's tail being held up constantly and maneuvering about. A small detail, but one that would be entirely dependent on wirework had it been a suit.
Oh, and literally every aspect of the first two forms would be near impossible or impossible to make look half-decent had it not been for computer imagery and they are far from "stiff".
As for the tail, if anything it moves less than that of most Godzillas. Most Godzillas' tails swish and flail around. Shin's just kinda... floats most of the time.
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Re: Will Toho use suits?
It's not the acts taking place, rather the fluidity of some of the movements, even with some of the budgetary constraints and how they are portrayed. Note how the second form undulates and has a movement very unique to pretty much any suit created monster. Note how the gills move up and around. Notice how when Godzilla roars the position goes from lower to upwards towards the sky and everything is really fluid. It's not so easy doing that with a suit.Inferno Rodan wrote:You think the simple act of walking makes Shin some sort of gymnast or something, so pardon me for not taking you very seriously.LSD Jellyfish wrote:sTiFfest AnD iMobiLe
Shin easily has the most movement and animation (heh) out of many recent Godzillas.