How could Toho make Godzilla even "weirder"? What new directions might they go in after 2020?

For the discussion of Shin Godzilla, Godzilla -1.0, the anime trilogy, Godzilla Singular Point and Toho produced and distributed films after 2015. Includes US movies financed by Toho like Detective Pikachu.
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Re: How could Toho make Godzilla even "weirder"? What new directions might they go in after 2020?

Post by Terasawa »

Jermobooka wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 8:31 am
Terasawa wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 8:03 am
Jermobooka wrote: Sun May 09, 2021 10:45 pm The Heisei series is the most... profitable Godzilla series all around
Source for this?

As far as I know, the figures for every Godzilla film's total grosses aren't available. Based on attendance figures alone, the Showa Godzilla films pulled in just under three times the attendance of the Heisei films.
I say it more as an educated guess than anything solid. From what i’ve seen, Heisei merchandise sells the most (other than Monsterverse), and is pushed the most by TOHO, so a sequel to GvD would be way more likely than a sequel DAM or Hedorah
I don't know if Heisei Godzilla merchandise sales (even relative to other Godzilla series or characters) is enough to support a sequel to a 25 year old completed film series, nor do I believe that that's enough evidence to say the Heisei Series is definitively the most profitable Godzilla series.

And while a sequel to GvD is more likely than one to either of the films you mentioned, that doesn't mean it's actually in anyway likely. I'd wager it's far less likely to see a continuation of the Heisei Godzilla series than it is to see a brand new Godzilla series established.
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Re: How could Toho make Godzilla even "weirder"? What new directions might they go in after 2020?

Post by kaijuguy19 »

Jermobooka wrote: Sun May 09, 2021 10:45 pm I feel like if TOHO ever goes “back to basics” with a film it’ll be a sequel to GvD/a continuation of the Heisei series following Junior. The Heisei series is the most popular and profitable Godzilla series all around and i doubt TOHO wouldn’t ever want to revisit it for the moolah
With how there's a lot of nostalgia trends and revivals coming up nowadays in general you may not be that far off. It helps that a lot of people at least in Japan did grew up with the Heisei era to make it possible.
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Re: How could Toho make Godzilla even "weirder"? What new directions might they go in after 2020?

Post by Desghidorah »

Make Godzilla talk and it not be ridiculous.
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Re: How could Toho make Godzilla even "weirder"? What new directions might they go in after 2020?

Post by LSD Jellyfish »

Desghidorah wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 2:03 pm Make Godzilla talk and it not be ridiculous.
Eh, that would really ruin the character for me. I'm fine with Godzilla being expressive, or even interpreted by mystical characters (the fairies), but having Godzilla talk humanizes him way too much, makes him able to be reasoned with, and other issues. Of course, if it's done well, then fine.

Before someone says, "well what about Godzilla vs. Gigan", it fits in with the campy tone of the film pretty well and is very brief. It's also just communication between two monsters, so whatever.
Last edited by LSD Jellyfish on Mon May 10, 2021 4:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: How could Toho make Godzilla even "weirder"? What new directions might they go in after 2020?

Post by Jermobooka »

Make Godzilla an actual god with deity-like abilities and presence that requires another equally powerful god (like Mothra) to imprison him again

For example, have Godzilla’s atomic breath be a ridiculously powerful beam. So powerful that it rips space and time, causing distortions and black holes, giving him the ability to curve the beam in whatever way and/or have multiple beams from his mouth alone

That’s the kinda stuff i’m talking about
Last edited by Jermobooka on Mon May 10, 2021 4:20 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: How could Toho make Godzilla even "weirder"? What new directions might they go in after 2020?

Post by Desghidorah »

LSD Jellyfish wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 4:02 pm
Desghidorah wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 2:03 pm Make Godzilla talk and it not be ridiculous.
Eh, that would really ruin the character for me. I'm fine with Godzilla being expressive, or even interpreted by mystical characters (the fairies), but having Godzilla talk humanizes him way too much, makes him able to be reasoned with, and other issues. Of course, if it's done well, then fine.

Before someone says, "well what about Godzilla vs. Gigan", it fits in with the campy tone of the film pretty well and is very brief. It's also just communication between two monsters, so whatever.
I profess I don't know how to do it and it not come off as very weird, but I think there could possibly be a way to do it and it still have dignity. Godzilla has had very clear motives and interactions before and it still be pretty easy to tell what he's 'saying'/thinking, such as the more emotive times the MV version had (like sparing Kong) or Heisei version had (calling out to his son in GvD).

I do not profess this is an example of how to do it, but I do recall a rewrite a friend had made of the Anime Trilogy in which; among other things, one change was a reveal that Haruo had actually gotten a monster-factor from G.Earth. It didn't affect his appearance or what-not, but it did factor into a few scenes of the rewrite. One sequence involved Haruo, in the mental grip of Metphis, experiencing a presence coming over him when he is tempted to give up. A voice simply told him to get up and it helped snap him from the mental attack. The implication was it was G.Earth reaching out like it can do with the Servum, but was played vaguely enough.

Point is to me, there are very few genuinely bad ideas in media; just poor executions. I'm not saying I'd want a talking Godzilla, just saying that is one route into weirdness we haven't seen.
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Re: How could Toho make Godzilla even "weirder"? What new directions might they go in after 2020?

Post by Voyager »

A literal gorilla-whale.
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Re: How could Toho make Godzilla even "weirder"? What new directions might they go in after 2020?

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Voyager wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 6:15 pm A literal gorilla-whale.
Well we got half of that down in Singular Point and (mostly offscreen) Shin. Now about dem apes...
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Re: How could Toho make Godzilla even "weirder"? What new directions might they go in after 2020?

Post by eabaker »

I don't really see how revisiting the Heisei era and bringing Junior back as the new lead monster would be "back to basics." Junior-as-adult-Godzilla would essentially be a new character, with new dynamics to work out, while at the same time re-familiarizing returning viewers with and introducing new viewers to an existing continuity that was ended decades ago.
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Re: How could Toho make Godzilla even "weirder"? What new directions might they go in after 2020?

Post by shadowgigan »

eabaker wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 10:21 am I don't really see how revisiting the Heisei era and bringing Junior back as the new lead monster would be "back to basics." Junior-as-adult-Godzilla would essentially be a new character, with new dynamics to work out, while at the same time re-familiarizing returning viewers with and introducing new viewers to an existing continuity that was ended decades ago.
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Re: How could Toho make Godzilla even "weirder"? What new directions might they go in after 2020?

Post by Desghidorah »

eabaker wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 10:21 am I don't really see how revisiting the Heisei era and bringing Junior back as the new lead monster would be "back to basics." Junior-as-adult-Godzilla would essentially be a new character, with new dynamics to work out, while at the same time re-familiarizing returning viewers with and introducing new viewers to an existing continuity that was ended decades ago.
Because some people seem to think Junior would end up like Heisei Godzilla 2.0 in terms of behavior; despite having a completely different history with humans and hardly a mean bone in his body if your name isn't Destoroyah. Having a more neutral or even dare I say, somewhat heroic Godzilla out of Toho would be something very new.
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Re: How could Toho make Godzilla even "weirder"? What new directions might they go in after 2020?

Post by Jermobooka »

Desghidorah wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 4:20 pm
eabaker wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 10:21 am I don't really see how revisiting the Heisei era and bringing Junior back as the new lead monster would be "back to basics." Junior-as-adult-Godzilla would essentially be a new character, with new dynamics to work out, while at the same time re-familiarizing returning viewers with and introducing new viewers to an existing continuity that was ended decades ago.
Because some people seem to think Junior would end up like Heisei Godzilla 2.0 in terms of behavior; despite having a completely different history with humans and hardly a mean bone in his body if your name isn't Destoroyah. Having a more neutral or even dare I say, somewhat heroic Godzilla out of Toho would be something very new.
I’d be going “back to basics” as in going back to a more conventional Godzilla/Godzilla continuity. There’s a ton of interesting things to be done in a sequel to GvD, one of those big parts being Junior’s kinder, less destructive personality and nature.

I feel the absolute best way to return to the Heisei continuity would be to revive the old idea of “Godzilla vs Ghost Godzilla”. Seeing Junior face off against the ghost of the vengeful original 1954 Goji and an Anguirus possessed by said-ghost would be badass. Also, have Mothra return. She could help Junior out in the final battle against Ghost, and it’d help tie the film even more to the Heisei continuity

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Last edited by Jermobooka on Tue May 11, 2021 5:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: How could Toho make Godzilla even "weirder"? What new directions might they go in after 2020?

Post by LSD Jellyfish »

Jermobooka wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 5:28 pm I feel the absolute best way to return to the Heisei continuity would be to revive the old idea of “Godzilla vs Ghost Godzilla”. Seeing Junior face off against the ghost of the vengeful original 1954 Goji and an Anguirus possessed by said-ghost would be badass. Also, have Mothra return. She could help Junior out in the final battle against Ghost, and it’d help tie the film even more to the Heisei continuity

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Neat artwork. I think when I imagine Ghost Godzilla the idea sounds pretty lame to me (just a palette swap), but if they give ti something like that (long claws) to make it more monstery that would be cool.
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Re: How could Toho make Godzilla even "weirder"? What new directions might they go in after 2020?

Post by eabaker »

Jermobooka wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 5:28 pm
Desghidorah wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 4:20 pm
eabaker wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 10:21 am I don't really see how revisiting the Heisei era and bringing Junior back as the new lead monster would be "back to basics." Junior-as-adult-Godzilla would essentially be a new character, with new dynamics to work out, while at the same time re-familiarizing returning viewers with and introducing new viewers to an existing continuity that was ended decades ago.
Because some people seem to think Junior would end up like Heisei Godzilla 2.0 in terms of behavior; despite having a completely different history with humans and hardly a mean bone in his body if your name isn't Destoroyah. Having a more neutral or even dare I say, somewhat heroic Godzilla out of Toho would be something very new.
I’d be going “back to basics” as in going back to a more conventional Godzilla/Godzilla continuity. There’s a ton of interesting things to be done in a sequel to GvD, one of those big parts being Junior’s kinder, less destructive personality and nature.
I'd say that the simple presence of that continuity in a sense already separate the Heisei era from the "basics" of the series. By emphasizing a new movie as a continuation of that earlier (long defunct) continuity, and introducing in effect a new take on Godzilla in the process, the idea strikes me as a long was from "back to basics."

But, then, we'd have to collectively agree on what "basics" are for Godzilla in order to all agree on what would bring us back to them. And that ain't gonna happen.
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Re: How could Toho make Godzilla even "weirder"? What new directions might they go in after 2020?

Post by Bigdog »

-Godzilla fights Michael Myers not unlike King Kong vs. Godzilla. Both franchises have convoluted timelines branching off it's initial installment, both have become more ridiculous as time went on before being brought back to their roots. Both had bizarre and gritty installments. So why not have Michael Myers fight him? Neither can die, but the fights would be interesting. To make it better, it's a direct sequel to the fourth film. Loomis is basically insane at this point trying to kill Myers as Ahab wants to do in Moby Dick.

-A Dragon Tattoo spinoff from David Fincher, and somehow Godzilla is tangentially related to the plot.

-Rob Zombie does Godzilla and everything his films entail. If it's a KOTM remake, expect body horror and nuclear consequences to those victimized. Perhaps expect it to look devastating rather than whitewash the consequences Godzilla's presence is usually handled in even serious reboots like 1984. The human elements woudl resemble a mixture of early Walking Dead and the devastation of Katrina ad the Fukushima disasters, where the people would have to cope with the destruction Godzilla caused.

-A Bollywood Godzilla remake of 1954 where in one scene, the girl and her mother, among various others dance in the streets and allow themselves to willingly get eaten by the king of the monsters. Dance scenes galore. Tasteless and controversial, but bizarre much like that Jaws knockoff that had a girl dance into the shark's mouth.

-A musical akin to Mamma Mia where on Odo Island, a psychic mother and her daughter run a hotel. Hijinks ensue as monster attacks commence in the distance. She wonders who her father is, but no one really knows or is willing to say anything. The first time she cna read Godzilla's mind at the end of the film leaves her in shock. [Godzilla in this was previously human. They had their child before he was turned. But really, he's got his 90's look since this is a bastardization of the Heisei series.]

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Re: How could Toho make Godzilla even "weirder"? What new directions might they go in after 2020?

Post by Thatguy4683 »

I just had an idea for how can they make a King Ghidorah weird in the Shinverse, simply have a meteorite hit Tokyo and Shin Godzilla awakened and start attacking Tokyo again. Have Shin
Godzilla injured put some kind of new weapon and half his blood spilled on the Meteorite, The Cells on the meteorite and Godzilla blood starts to mutate overtime, Shin Ghidorah will have multiple forms from human size to bigger then Godzilla himself, Just an Idea
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Re: How could Toho make Godzilla even "weirder"? What new directions might they go in after 2020?

Post by VOID GHIDORAH »

Desghidorah wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 6:09 pm I do not profess this is an example of how to do it, but I do recall a rewrite a friend had made of the Anime Trilogy in which; among other things, one change was a reveal that Haruo had actually gotten a monster-factor from G.Earth. It didn't affect his appearance or what-not, but it did factor into a few scenes of the rewrite. One sequence involved Haruo, in the mental grip of Metphis, experiencing a presence coming over him when he is tempted to give up. A voice simply told him to get up and it helped snap him from the mental attack. The implication was it was G.Earth reaching out like it can do with the Servum, but was played vaguely enough.
That sounds pretty interesting! A concept like that would be really cool, actually.

For alternate Godzillas:
1) The Thunder God
A Godzilla with electromagnetic-based powers much like the Netflix Godzilla, albeit more traditional in form. His beam would be a crackling blast of energy comparable to a lightning strike, triggering an immense EMP and destroying all nearby tech. This guy would also stir up titanic storms like the MV Ghidorah, and be more or less a pseudo-god (although it would be ambiguous how godlike he actually was). I could see some Lovecraftian themes, such as dreams and whatnot inspired by Godzilla’s coming. Very much playing off the Original’s ’thunder god’ status in the 1954 film.

2) A Deliberate Folly
This Godzilla would be manufactured as a military weapon, or a prototype, partially to neutralize the threat of nuclear war. He would be pretty traditional, but more nimble and agile as well as durable, like the unmade 1994 Godzilla. His Atomic Breath would be adjustable to suit different scenarios. I imagine the plot here would be comparable to Jurassic Park, with a group of scientists coming to see if the military installation works, or if Godzilla needs to be moved. He escapes of course, and begins to feed off humanity’s power supplies like nuclear power plants (as well as consuming electrical energy). A sequel may include something along the lines of a horde of miniature, ‘perfected’ Godzillas who are used to mob Godzilla. This guy wouldn’t be evil, but more animalistic, like the Millennium Godzillas (like Godzilla 2000 and the Kiryu Saga).

3) The Walking Mountain
This guy would be extra-large, 600-1000 feet tall. His body would serve as an ecosystem of small/realistic sized monsters, with different ones filling different ecological niches. Anguirusi would prowl his sides, feeding off the rich forests and mosses that cling to Godzilla’s bulk, while Gorosaurus prey on stragglers. Rodan soar about his dorsal plates, scavenging the dead kaiju. Several Varan slumber in the small pools that sit between Godzilla’s dorsal plates, occasionally leaving to hunt the Shockirius that cling to exposed skin. Baragon hold on to his underside. All these kaiju feed off the radiation Godzilla produces, and when some are knocked off they begin to attack nuclear stockpiles in search of food. And mankind’s nuclear supplies encourage rapid kaiju growth, creating more traditionally-sized versions of various kaiju. As a result, Godzilla’s mere walking spawns hordes, and even if a few survive the military has an impossible problem. This Godzilla would be peaceful, only wanting to travel and absorb solar radiation, but when aggravated he’d produce a titanic ‘flamethrower’ of neon-blue atomic energy, incinerating mountains in order to be left alone. I also imagine all these kaiju would have Godzilla traits like dorsal plates.

4) Son of Godzilla
After a devastating battle between Godzilla and another kaiju, lumps of radioactive flesh litter the city. A human baby ends up absorbing a small amount of Godzilla’s DNA, and seemingly has no side effects. He’s recovered, and adopted. After several years, Godzilla returns to fight another monster (exact one not really mattering). The child who absorbed bits of Godzilla demonstrates a remarkable ability to track and communicate with Godzilla, making him a prime target for a number of factions. So, this is a play on Godzilla’s ‘friend to all children’ status he had in the Showa Era, as well as some elements of Shin/Netflix Godzilla. Maybe this Godzilla is highly radioactive, creating fallout with every breath, in order to make him more deadly? And once the city’s destroyed and ash/dust clouds are everywhere, Godzilla leaves even more fallout behind. Other than that, he’d be a traditional Godzilla.

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Re: How could Toho make Godzilla even "weirder"? What new directions might they go in after 2020?

Post by LegendZilla »

Here's my two cents : Have Godzilla start out as plain as possible at first, only to acquire new abilities and attributes with the passage of time resulting from him being augmented from DNA injection from other kaiju, like in Super Godzilla.

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Re: How could Toho make Godzilla even "weirder"? What new directions might they go in after 2020?

Post by Voyager »

I have a very bad idea. Make Godzilla like hulk.
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Re: How could Toho make Godzilla even "weirder"? What new directions might they go in after 2020?

Post by Lesko »

Given what we have seen from Shin, the anime trilogy, and Singular Point I think Toho is on the right track for different stuff. These entries have ranged from good to bad but one think that is consistent, at least for me is the new directions they go in. Shin Godzilla was a very new and unique Godzilla that pretty much gave him a new look and some different abilities while feeling totally different from previous entries. The anime trilogy was very ambitious and gave us a setting and Godzilla that was unique and practically done from the ground up. Finally I won't say anything about Singular Point because of spoilers other than the new ideas in that series certainly stand out also. So I am very happy with what the Reiwa Era has given thus far and I hope Toho does not deviate from this path. I am sure what they are cooking up next will follow the pattern we have been getting.

For me personally I wanna see Godzilla as an alien like the original Tristar draft. Or the creation of an alien. This is the only origin of Godzilla we haven't quite seen in film or television just yet. It would definitely set up the groundwork for something very interesting with a lot of possibilities. We can do the more generic bioengineered savior of mankind or make him an outright bioweapon from an alien species. Or perhaps just be an alien himself like we normally would expect from something like Ghidorah. Just for fun how about making Spacegodzilla from an alien Godzilla to make things very metaphysical.

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