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Shin Godzilla - The General Discussion Thread
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Re: Shin Godzilla - The General Discussion Thread
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Re: Shin Godzilla - The General Discussion Thread
Disagree with the bolded, so very much do I disagree with the bolded. I'm hoping that now that there's a lull in Legendary's MV film schedule we'll hear news or a Shin sequel sooner rather than later, even if it has to be without Anno.
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Re: Shin Godzilla - The General Discussion Thread
SoggyNoodles2016 wrote:Misato stans just built different.
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Re: Shin Godzilla - The General Discussion Thread
Look, I said "even if" not "rather than" - clearly I'd prefer an Anno directed sequel. But Anno's already got Shin Kamen Rider lined up and we don't know how long of a window Toho might have to make another live action film. They're limited in time by Legendary's MonsterVerse Godzilla film release schedules. It might be different for you two, but I no longer have an interest in Legendary's future MonsterVerse plans - I hated GvK, that's no secret - but GvK was also their most successful Godzilla movie, which means they're going to double down on all the elements of GvK I hated. So I'm not watching that ever again. Then there's the anime, the trilogy was...disappointing. I don't hate it like some do, it had its good bits, but it's pretty rough - and while Singular Point was better, it's still very mediocre. Like everyone else on this site, I still love Godzilla, I still want to see new Godzilla content, but if I hate Legendary's direction, if the animes tend to be shockingly disappointing considering the benefits that medium naturally provides, then all I have is the hope that Toho makes their own live action movie again. And they only have some short windows between Legendary releases. If they can get Anno back quick to make another that's excellent and the best outcome, but if time restraints won't allow it then I'd rather take the chance that some other highly skilled director in Japan can deliver the goods then wait a further five or ten years for a new Godzilla I can actually enjoy again. I need content, and since the BO rewarded GvK either the next anime has to step up its game or Toho needs to work on that follow-up to Shin.Jermobooka wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 12:26 pm
There is no person on this godforsaken planet that could and should helm a potential Shin Gojira sequel other than Anno.
So yeah, I want Anno to direct, but just getting a Godzilla project that doesn't disappoint me is the main thing. I'm in this strange Monkey Paw situation where my wish for Hollywood Godzilla movies and Godzilla animes have both finally come true yet none of it is good (in my opinion anyways).
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Re: Shin Godzilla - The General Discussion Thread
I get everything you're saying, but you really don't make a case for why the next live action Japanese entry would have to be a direct sequel to Shin. I definitely hope Toho returns to the series soon, but there are any number of directions they could go other than directly following up a movie that really feels like it's made its point and would in some ways just be diluted by a follow-up.Vakanai wrote: ↑Tue Aug 03, 2021 1:11 amLook, I said "even if" not "rather than" - clearly I'd prefer an Anno directed sequel. But Anno's already got Shin Kamen Rider lined up and we don't know how long of a window Toho might have to make another live action film. They're limited in time by Legendary's MonsterVerse Godzilla film release schedules. It might be different for you two, but I no longer have an interest in Legendary's future MonsterVerse plans - I hated GvK, that's no secret - but GvK was also their most successful Godzilla movie, which means they're going to double down on all the elements of GvK I hated. So I'm not watching that ever again. Then there's the anime, the trilogy was...disappointing. I don't hate it like some do, it had its good bits, but it's pretty rough - and while Singular Point was better, it's still very mediocre. Like everyone else on this site, I still love Godzilla, I still want to see new Godzilla content, but if I hate Legendary's direction, if the animes tend to be shockingly disappointing considering the benefits that medium naturally provides, then all I have is the hope that Toho makes their own live action movie again. And they only have some short windows between Legendary releases. If they can get Anno back quick to make another that's excellent and the best outcome, but if time restraints won't allow it then I'd rather take the chance that some other highly skilled director in Japan can deliver the goods then wait a further five or ten years for a new Godzilla I can actually enjoy again. I need content, and since the BO rewarded GvK either the next anime has to step up its game or Toho needs to work on that follow-up to Shin.Jermobooka wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 12:26 pm
There is no person on this godforsaken planet that could and should helm a potential Shin Gojira sequel other than Anno.
So yeah, I want Anno to direct, but just getting a Godzilla project that doesn't disappoint me is the main thing. I'm in this strange Monkey Paw situation where my wish for Hollywood Godzilla movies and Godzilla animes have both finally come true yet none of it is good (in my opinion anyways).
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Re: Shin Godzilla - The General Discussion Thread
I'm in the camp that Shin should never have a sequel. It feels complete and perfect where it left off. I agree that a sequel of any kind would either make the original message pointless or feel like a retread.
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Re: Shin Godzilla - The General Discussion Thread
Oh that's because I'm not going to make a case for it - there's no case in my opinion for why the next movie should or shouldn't be a direct sequel to Shin, other than desire and money. So yeah, not making a case, don't see a reason why I need to make a case - I just want it to be a direct sequel to Shin.eabaker wrote: ↑Tue Aug 03, 2021 9:39 amI get everything you're saying, but you really don't make a case for why the next live action Japanese entry would have to be a direct sequel to Shin. I definitely hope Toho returns to the series soon, but there are any number of directions they could go other than directly following up a movie that really feels like it's made its point and would in some ways just be diluted by a follow-up.Vakanai wrote: ↑Tue Aug 03, 2021 1:11 amLook, I said "even if" not "rather than" - clearly I'd prefer an Anno directed sequel. But Anno's already got Shin Kamen Rider lined up and we don't know how long of a window Toho might have to make another live action film. They're limited in time by Legendary's MonsterVerse Godzilla film release schedules. It might be different for you two, but I no longer have an interest in Legendary's future MonsterVerse plans - I hated GvK, that's no secret - but GvK was also their most successful Godzilla movie, which means they're going to double down on all the elements of GvK I hated. So I'm not watching that ever again. Then there's the anime, the trilogy was...disappointing. I don't hate it like some do, it had its good bits, but it's pretty rough - and while Singular Point was better, it's still very mediocre. Like everyone else on this site, I still love Godzilla, I still want to see new Godzilla content, but if I hate Legendary's direction, if the animes tend to be shockingly disappointing considering the benefits that medium naturally provides, then all I have is the hope that Toho makes their own live action movie again. And they only have some short windows between Legendary releases. If they can get Anno back quick to make another that's excellent and the best outcome, but if time restraints won't allow it then I'd rather take the chance that some other highly skilled director in Japan can deliver the goods then wait a further five or ten years for a new Godzilla I can actually enjoy again. I need content, and since the BO rewarded GvK either the next anime has to step up its game or Toho needs to work on that follow-up to Shin.Jermobooka wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 12:26 pm
There is no person on this godforsaken planet that could and should helm a potential Shin Gojira sequel other than Anno.
So yeah, I want Anno to direct, but just getting a Godzilla project that doesn't disappoint me is the main thing. I'm in this strange Monkey Paw situation where my wish for Hollywood Godzilla movies and Godzilla animes have both finally come true yet none of it is good (in my opinion anyways).
I do disagree with the notion that movies shouldn't get sequels because they're "complete" or that sequels somehow "dilute" the original. I don't believe that at all.
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I don't think that's a good reason not to do a sequel. It doesn't matter at all. All that matters is if they feel they have another story they want to tell and there's an audience for it. If both of those are a yes, then there's no reason not to.DirektorSplennic wrote: ↑Tue Aug 03, 2021 1:58 pm I'm in the camp that Shin should never have a sequel. It feels complete and perfect where it left off. I agree that a sequel of any kind would either make the original message pointless or feel like a retread.
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Re: Shin Godzilla - The General Discussion Thread
Because it's a discussion board. We're here to discuss these subjects - having stated opinions, to explore those opinions, and to get other opinions that differ from our own in order to more fully understand and appreciate the subject matter.
I don't think sequels have the power to dilute the original work in any absolute sense - in theory the original work still exists as it was intended. However, to a large portion of the audience, sequels do function as an extension of the original work, and redefine/re-contextualize that work (to go with a very superficial example, consider the number of people who consider Star Wars to be a movie in which Luke and Leia are brother and sister and Darth Vader is Luke's father, despite none of that actually being the case in that movie). Whether or not one likes it, or agrees with it on an abstract/theoretical level, it simply holds true that a sequel has the power to change the popular meaning of a work, even if the essential meaning remains the same.I do disagree with the notion that movies shouldn't get sequels because they're "complete" or that sequels somehow "dilute" the original. I don't believe that at all.
Beyond that, if we only focus on that hypothetical sequel, and dismiss the idea that it has any retroactive meaning making impact on the original, unless there is a specific thematic concept to be explored that is a natural extension of the themes of the earlier work, the sequel itself would seem to exist in an inherently altered or diluted context. If taking the two as a whole creates a different meaning than the original on its own, then in a sense the sequel is not a sequel to the original work, but simply part of a new, larger work that means something fundamentally different from what the original did.
Shin is in large part about the nebulous state of Japan's role in international affairs and the ability of other countries - the U.S. in particular - to control Japan's future. Unless there is a major real-world political change that alters that status, a direct sequel to Shin just doesn't make sense to me on a meaning-making level.
Last edited by eabaker on Wed Aug 04, 2021 9:11 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Shin Godzilla - The General Discussion Thread
Yes - to state opinions is a part of discussion. Making a case, debating an opinion, is not the only form that a discussion can take. A debate is a form of discussion, but not the only discussions that can be had. Sharing opinions on what we want and like that's no deeper than "I want it cause I like it" is just as valid a discussion point. True, it doesn't inspire as much follow up as a debate does, but not all discussions need to be that involved or that long. I just wanted to say that I would prefer a new Toho film be a follow up to Shin because that would excite me greatly and I'm interested in seeing it, I don't really need or even have reasons why it needs to be a sequel versus some new original thing.
Even if that's the case, that still doesn't give a reason why a sequel can't or shouldn't happen - Star Wars is still watched and greatly enjoyed despite sequels and prequels and spin offs, both good and bad. Halloween is still one of the most enjoyable slasher classics, and it's had some bad sequels. Raiders of the Lost Ark is no less a beloved classic, and it has two sequels that many fans are not all that happy with.I don't think sequels have the power to dilute the original work in any absolute sense - in theory the original work still exists as it was intended. However, to a large portion of the audience, sequels do function as an extension of the original work, and redefine/re-contextualize that work (to go with a very superficial example, consider the number of people who consider Star Wars to be a movie in which Luke and Leia are brother and sister and Darth Vader is Luke's father, despite none of that actually being the case in that movie). Whether or not one likes it, or agrees with it on an abstract/theoretical level, it simply holds true that a sequel has the power to change the popular meaning of a work, even if the essential meaning remains the same.I do disagree with the notion that movies shouldn't get sequels because they're "complete" or that sequels somehow "dilute" the original. I don't believe that at all.
I'm not sure I follow. Isn't this true of many sequels, even some that are considered the "good" sequels? And how do you know that it wouldn't be a natural extension of the themes of the earlier work? Just because it feels done and we can't see where a sequel could naturally pick up those themes and expand upon them, doesn't mean that someone else can't, and do it incredibly.Beyond that, if we only focus on that hypothetical sequel, and dismiss the idea that it has any retroactive meaning making impact on the original, unless there is a specific thematic concept to be explored that is a natural extension of the themes of the earlier work, the sequel itself would seem to exist in an inherently altered or diluted context. If taking the two as a whole creates a different meaning than the original on its own, then in a sense the sequel is not a sequel to the original work, but simply part of a new, larger work that means something fundamentally different from what the original did.
It is also in large part about Japan's frustrations with government bureaucracy following a natural disaster. Frankly the dissatisfaction with Japan's handling of the coronavirus, such as holding the Olympics during the pandemic, provides a satirical opportunity to pick up on - imagine hosting a large event in the shadow of Godzilla while willfully ignoring signs that he's making a recovery. That's what I mean about someone else seeing possibilities we may not. You focused on one aspect of what Shin was about, I mostly noticed another. There's multiple themes and multiple readings of the movie, and not all of them need to be picked up on to make a satisfying sequel. A follow up can take just a few of the themes of the previous, put a new spin on those themes to reflect the new themes in the world today, and add a few new themes of its own, and be just as rewarding as the original if not more so.Shin is in large part about the nebulous state of Japan's role in international affairs and the ability of other countries - the U.S. in particular - to control Japan's future. Unless there is a major real-world political change that alters that status, a direct sequel to Shin just doesn't make sense to me on a meaning-making level.
And that's ignoring entirely that sequels don't always have to make sense on a meaning-making level to be enjoyable. Even if it's not as good as the previous, some sequels still are worthwhile just as entertainment.
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Re: Shin Godzilla - The General Discussion Thread
Most people around here go rambling non-stop over their complaints with the Heisei series of films, so why should it be any different if I do the same with this movie (or GMK)?
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Re: Shin Godzilla - The General Discussion Thread
Really cause it doesn't matter what era of this franchise you constant ram on, it's gonna get annoying any way you slice it. Whether if be Showa complaints, Heisei, Millennium MV or whatever.LegendZilla wrote: ↑Sat Aug 07, 2021 5:27 pm Most people around here go rambling non-stop over their complaints with the Heisei series of films, so why should it be any different if I do the same with this movie (or GMK)?
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Re: Shin Godzilla - The General Discussion Thread
Because most people usually come in with a issue they have with the movie and don't fucking whine that "people can be mean to these movies I like but I can't be mean to the ones they like!" To make themselves feel better about starting shit.LegendZilla wrote: ↑Sat Aug 07, 2021 5:27 pm Most people around here go rambling non-stop over their complaints with the Heisei series of films, so why should it be any different if I do the same with this movie (or GMK)?
And if you make a post like this again, it's a warning.
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Re: Shin Godzilla - The General Discussion Thread
Dude, come on. Let's just not. It's perfectly fine to dislike a movie for whatever reason one sees fit (I'm amongst those who... ... ...wasn't a fan of KoTM or the Anime Trilogy, for example), but to come into this forum to make this exact same post again after multiple times of doing so comes of as very confrontational.LegendZilla wrote: ↑Sat Aug 07, 2021 5:27 pm Most people around here go rambling non-stop over their complaints with the Heisei series of films, so why should it be any different if I do the same with this movie (or GMK)?
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Re: Shin Godzilla - The General Discussion Thread
I still think the perfect English title for this would have been Godzilla: Evolution.
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Re: Shin Godzilla - The General Discussion Thread
That would've been a bit spoilery.Rando Yaguchi wrote: ↑Fri Aug 13, 2021 10:30 pm I still think the perfect English title for this would have been Godzilla: Evolution.
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Re: Shin Godzilla - The General Discussion Thread
Were his multiple forms kept a secret? I didn't follow the marketing for it at all.G-Matt wrote: ↑Fri Aug 13, 2021 10:33 pmThat would've been a bit spoilery.Rando Yaguchi wrote: ↑Fri Aug 13, 2021 10:30 pm I still think the perfect English title for this would have been Godzilla: Evolution.
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Re: Shin Godzilla - The General Discussion Thread
Prior to Shin Godzilla's release the plot and pretty much any details surrounding the film were complete secrets. All we really knew was that the plot was "Japan vs. Godzilla", which was the tagline on the poster. The two major trailers that were released showed very few shots of Godzilla. One of him about to charge his beam, one of him walking through Tokyo and a few other small shots.Rando Yaguchi wrote: ↑Fri Aug 13, 2021 10:37 pm Were his multiple forms kept a secret? I didn't follow the marketing for it at all.
Prior to release, Bandai released a semi-spoiler for the movie, that included figures for "Kaiju A" and "Kaiju B". People (myself included) started wildly speculating on what those monsters were, not assuming that they were just other Godzilla forms. A lot of people thought that Godzilla was some sort of zombie, or that the form showed in trailers was a damaged and partially regenerating Godzilla. A few "creative" members (myself included ) came up with wild "leaks" that caused massive fights online when people realized they were fake.
I think in maybe April or May of 2016, suit photos of Shin Godzilla got leaked. These were illegally taken, and a bunch of sites posted it. A lot of people genuinely hated the design, and thought Godzilla had a way too big of a neck based on the angle of the photo. A more immature version of myself and other members kept spamming and circumventing trouble with it. Funnily enough, because those were photos of the suit, not the other forms which probably would have been pure CGI, no one was ever leaked to the multiple forms. Despite the controversy and shit-flinging on multiple sides,
When Shin Godzilla finally came out in Japan there was a lull followed by the craziest of tales. Photos emerged of some of Godzillas earlier forms, and a lot of people took to calling those forms "Turkey Zilla". Despite this, in the advertising Godzilla's forms were kept a secret, but eventually the forms were release as figures.
Shin Godzilla has one of the wildest, most explosive from rumor to marketing to release cycle ever. I'm sorry to say this, but if you weren't there, you missed out.
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Re: Shin Godzilla - The General Discussion Thread
Duuuude I rememeber the Shin "leaks"
It was such a wild ride. I distinctly remember someone claiming Godzilla fought a monster that crawled out of his back like a man in a suit, and killed some kind of Baragon monster. Then the end credits involved Monarch or something.
It was such a wild ride. I distinctly remember someone claiming Godzilla fought a monster that crawled out of his back like a man in a suit, and killed some kind of Baragon monster. Then the end credits involved Monarch or something.
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Re: Shin Godzilla - The General Discussion Thread
I mean there was an early concept where Form 3 emerged out of the back of Form 2 like a cicada shedding its old shell.
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