Shin Godzilla - The General Discussion Thread

For the discussion of Shin Godzilla, the Godzilla anime trilogy, Godzilla Singular Point and Toho produced and distributed films after 2015. Includes US movies financed by Toho like Detective Pikachu.
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Gojira1604
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Re: Shin Godzilla - The General Discussion Thread

Post by Gojira1604 »

king_ghidorah wrote: Sun Oct 31, 2021 10:03 am I can't see that at all....

To me, it's just a more "realistic" version of the 54 and that's about it.....

Or put another way, it's the 54 filtered through Cronnenberg
Just my personal opinion but I think 54 feels alot more "realistic" looking than Shin does. 54 looks in many ways what I think a dinosaur thing would look like if much of its skin & back got blown off by a bomb.
Shin on the other hand, while I love everything about his design, I could argue has "trying too hard" features all over him. Built in Villian smile, the glowing red patches & his "super long tail with a friggin face at the end of it"! Yeah as a design I think Shin is many times more outlandish. :Spacegodzilla:

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Re: Shin Godzilla - The General Discussion Thread

Post by shadowgigan »

miguelnuva wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 10:30 pm Thinking back to how well this did in 2016 with critics and in Japan I'm suprised it wasn't at least nominated for heat foreign film at the Oscars.
I was furious that none of the original songs were nominated for anything over here in the states.

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Re: Shin Godzilla - The General Discussion Thread

Post by GigaBowserG »

It took quite a while, but one of the earliest drafts of Shin Godzilla has been translated for the site! :) As expected, this early draft has some fairly wild ideas that were left on the cutting room floor.

https://www.tohokingdom.com/blog/anno-g ... anslation/
Mecha M wrote:[after seeing Shin Godzilla's design] Looks like partially cooked carne asada
/crawls back under rock

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Re: Shin Godzilla - The General Discussion Thread

Post by Cryptid_Liker »

Reading it right now. I wish we could've gotten the airport scene. Sounds like it'd look amazing on the big screen.

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king_ghidorah
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Re: Shin Godzilla - The General Discussion Thread

Post by king_ghidorah »

I feel like I vastly prefer the final film version overall

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Re: Shin Godzilla - The General Discussion Thread

Post by imposterzilla »

king_ghidorah wrote: Sat Jan 22, 2022 3:25 pm I feel like I vastly prefer the final film version overall
I agree...it seems really weird and waaaayyy ultra nationalistic. The airport scene is great though

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Re: Shin Godzilla - The General Discussion Thread

Post by LSD Jellyfish »

A lot to unpack here. It feels like it's pretty similar to the final film, but mixes up a lot of things. Ultimately, I feel the final film is way better due to pacing. The draft seems to spend more time building up the initial Godzilla-creature, while the final version speeds to Kamatakun, while still allowing the build up. The instant the destroyer is capsized so early on, it's clear this is a much bigger problem then what initially happens in the final cut. The airport scene is cool, but again I think it's a more interesting scene with Kamatakun serpentining down the street and displacing cars.

-I like the idea of the creature getting to hot and returning to the ocean to change versus the electromagnetic stuff. Seems like the spines were initially going to be much wilder too.
I like the imagery of the sonar buoys, and detecting the heartbeat. I also like the discovery of Godzilla flesh in the aqua tunnel showing metamorphosis. I also like showing how catastrophic the damage is after Godzilla's attack. Like Tokyo is essentially abandoned. We get that in the final cut, but not as much detail of panic buying, people abandoned etc...

-Glad someone with oversight had the oversight to knock out the whole thing with conflict between father and son. Doesn't suit the narrative.

-There's a section where Godzilla grows wings and flies, and is compared to an ancient bird. Ehhhh. We also get the "head splitting concept" which we've seen art of, and would imply asexual reproduction, that we get in the final shot of the final cut. IMO, the final film did a lot better by acknowledging things that could happen, but don't.

-The choice to allow the United States and other countries to still be sus, and also having frustrations with Japan, but still allowing for cooperation and understanding makes the final product superior. . Lines like this are reflective of Japanese history and the Fukushima disaster. This is pretty much a response to that:"“This country became arrogant in its place in the world based on its scrap-and-build practices. This is the third time that we’ve suffered a nuclear attack, and the third time our capital has been destroyed. Japan is strong. This time as well, we will be able to achieve an incredible recovery. Believe in the hidden reserves of strength to be found in the Japanese people.” The line after that expresses interest in learning from Godzilla, and using it to cause horrors throughout the world, but this is quickly swatted down by the protagonist. The character responds with some weird BS about then attacking the United States, but it's quickly shot down by the protagonist.

-There also seems to be some weird stuff about Japan and the United States going to war at the end, which while I don't think is intended to be some nationalistic fantasy it's incredibly stupid. I think ultimately a lot of sentiments in this draft, and Shin Godzilla, wanting Japan to be less dependent on the United States are justified, but to the degree this comes off in the draft is stupid.


Overall, it's interesting. You can see how close this was to the final film, but I'm glad Toho or someone else was there saying maybe there would be better ways to remix/utilize these ideas.
Rodan95 wrote:The Shobijin are sat on by a fatass explorer and killed. Mothra is pissed and destroys Japan.

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Re: Shin Godzilla - The General Discussion Thread

Post by king_ghidorah »

Its nationalistic and really gross to read. I’ve defended Shin as a film from those that state it’s ultra right wing, but after reading this, I don’t think I can anymore. Anno definitely has problems with the world outside of Japan….again….this is just really depressing and now makes me really worried about Shin Ultraman and Kamen Rider

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Re: Shin Godzilla - The General Discussion Thread

Post by Cryptid_Liker »

king_ghidorah wrote: Sat Jan 22, 2022 6:12 pm and now makes me really worried about Shin Ultraman and Kamen Rider
Thankfully, those two franchises aren't nearly as political as Godzilla. I mean, Kamen Rider's villains are literal Nazis but I doubt he's gonna delve into it any more than the original series did.

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Re: Shin Godzilla - The General Discussion Thread

Post by LSD Jellyfish »

king_ghidorah wrote: Sat Jan 22, 2022 6:12 pm Its nationalistic and really gross to read. I’ve defended Shin as a film from those that state it’s ultra right wing, but after reading this, I don’t think I can anymore. Anno definitely has problems with the world outside of Japan….again….this is just really depressing and now makes me really worried about Shin Ultraman and Kamen Rider
Nah, the final cut isn’t nationalistic. Keep in mind a film is separate from a draft. Movies are made by multiple people, and clearly someone else (perhaps even Anno himself) realized what problems existed in the script. A major difference is that the final film understands that Japans relationship with the world, and the United States, is not as monolithic and simple as the drafts version. It understands that Japan has a lot to gain from co-operation, and understands that this entanglement is pretty important to japan and the worlds health. The character of Ann Paterson, is a dramatically different thing that encompasses the strangeness and complexity of this relationship. This draft makes me appreciate the final thing a lot more.

Anno has a lot of bad takes, but this isn’t anything new. I wouldn’t be so depressed about it.

I’m curious what parts of it stand out to you as nationalistic though. There’s a lot of bad takes in the script, but they seem to be refuted by the protagonists and or people in the story.
Rodan95 wrote:The Shobijin are sat on by a fatass explorer and killed. Mothra is pissed and destroys Japan.

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Re: Shin Godzilla - The General Discussion Thread

Post by king_ghidorah »

That’s refreshing and I appreciate your level headedness.

As far as the nationalism in the script….I think it just treats America and the UN as outright enemies and that’s gross. The final film is much more nuanced.

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Re: Shin Godzilla - The General Discussion Thread

Post by LSD Jellyfish »

One thing I was thinking about: the draft mentions Godzilla's roar being electromagnetic and causing disruptions, as well as it being drawn to sources of radio waves. While this idea doesn't make it into the final film, consider how some of these ideas were recycled into Godzilla SP. Rodan first appears chasing radio waves, and it's first major appearance is it smashing into a large satellite thing that causes disturbances. Likewise, it's roars and appearance cause disruption.

Likewise, Godzilla's skeleton has some sort of connection to radio-waves and we see a lot of the same conspiratorial undertones in the anime. Hmmm...
Rodan95 wrote:The Shobijin are sat on by a fatass explorer and killed. Mothra is pissed and destroys Japan.

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Re: Shin Godzilla - The General Discussion Thread

Post by king_ghidorah »

I like to think that some of this still made its way into the final film…the reason Godzilla is driven towards population centers has something to do with radio waves and technology. He’s literally driven towards humanity like a moth to a flame. Or a lion to a zebra…

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Re: Shin Godzilla - The General Discussion Thread

Post by Thatguy4683 »

I felt that Shin Godzilla show USA in the bad light when watching the film but I bush it off, thinking it was just me… but I didn’t knew it almost went this far holy crap
:godzilla2021blue: :shingodzillapurple:

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Re: Shin Godzilla - The General Discussion Thread

Post by LSD Jellyfish »

I'm surprised how people aren't also bringing up how hostile the draft is to Japanese society and the country as well. The whole thing with Osaka and Nagoya vying for being the new capital is a big comment on the cultural divide between different regions of Japan despite their close proximity to one another. I understand that Americans would be of course focused on American things, but it's interesting to see how everyone extrapolates a very Anti-American film, when more in reality the draft is just incredibly cynical towards modern Japanese society. A lot of these ideas are in the final film, just with less focus on them. The Japanese gov and bureaucracy in Japan is still the lynchpin of the film.
Rodan95 wrote:The Shobijin are sat on by a fatass explorer and killed. Mothra is pissed and destroys Japan.

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Re: Shin Godzilla - The General Discussion Thread

Post by ShinGojira14 »

LSD Jellyfish wrote: Mon Jan 24, 2022 5:27 pm I'm surprised how people aren't also bringing up how hostile the draft is to Japanese society and the country as well. The whole thing with Osaka and Nagoya vying for being the new capital is a big comment on the cultural divide between different regions of Japan despite their close proximity to one another. I understand that Americans would be of course focused on American things, but it's interesting to see how everyone extrapolates a very Anti-American film, when more in reality the draft is just incredibly cynical towards modern Japanese society. A lot of these ideas are in the final film, just with less focus on them. The Japanese gov and bureaucracy in Japan is still the lynchpin of the film.
Exactly this.
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Re: Shin Godzilla - The General Discussion Thread

Post by LSD Jellyfish »

This struck out to me:
The beam intercepts the missiles while still in mid-air. In the same stroke, the beam liquifies Tokyo Skytree. Distorting its body, the giant creature aims its beam this way and that. The metropolitan area is ruined as the the missiles are destroyed. The area from Asakura to Ueno goes up in flames.
First, I wonder why the Tokyo Sky-Tree wasn't part of the final film. It's a pretty big thing that was constructed in 2008, so it's bizarre that they wouldn't want to have fun with it in the film. It would provide a unique backdrop for the film that isn't present in prior Godzilla films.

Next, I like the usage of the word distorts. Maybe I'll come off as a Shin-Apologist here, but it makes me wonder if some of the scenes where Godzilla is jerky around and looks very strange in it's movement Is intentional.
Rodan95 wrote:The Shobijin are sat on by a fatass explorer and killed. Mothra is pissed and destroys Japan.

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Re: Shin Godzilla - The General Discussion Thread

Post by LegendZilla »

If Quentin Tarantino directed a Godzilla film, this would be it.

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Re: Shin Godzilla - The General Discussion Thread

Post by ShinGojira14 »

LegendZilla wrote: Thu Apr 14, 2022 8:50 pm If Quentin Tarantino directed a Godzilla film, this would be it.
Oh, no it wouldn't. A Tarantino Godzilla film would be a LOT bloodier.
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Re: Shin Godzilla - The General Discussion Thread

Post by LegendZilla »

ShinGojira14 wrote: Thu Apr 14, 2022 10:49 pm
LegendZilla wrote: Thu Apr 14, 2022 8:50 pm If Quentin Tarantino directed a Godzilla film, this would be it.
Oh, no it wouldn't. A Tarantino Godzilla film would be a LOT bloodier.
It is in terms of style and tone.

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