Is Showa Godzilla One Character?

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Is Showa Godzilla One Character?

Post by Voyager »

If you’ve been browsing the FM’s you know why this is a thread. I for one think that from 55-75 is the same Godzilla. And that’s the common consensus, but there are apparently users who don’t believe so.

I think we need to settle this right here, right now. I want to hear a professional’s opinion on this too.
Last edited by Voyager on Wed May 19, 2021 9:55 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Is Showa Godzilla One Character?

Post by Jermobooka »

Yup. Same character. While the continuity is confusing and the character shift is a bit...odd, it’s been stated officially multiple times that Showa is one Goji
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Re: Is Showa Godzilla One Character?

Post by _JNavs_ »

Yeah I disagree, as the character itself goes through absolutely drastic changes that go beyond just physical, to the point where I see the Showa era as an anthology series similar to the Millennium era. There's just no way Raids Again Godzilla is the same Godzilla from Son of G and TOMG, But as I said in the FMs I am open to hearing more from the "Pros".. *insert pawn stars let me call in my buddy who's an expert meme*
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Re: Is Showa Godzilla One Character?

Post by Showa Gojira »

He's obviously the same character throughout the Showa series, from the second film all the way to the fifteenth and final entry in the Showa series it follows the adventures of the second Godzilla. At no point do the films say a new Godzilla has appeared nor do they show any signs of such a thing happening. In the Heisei films Godzilla's appearance changes from the 1984 film to Godzilla vs Biollante quite drastically, with minor changes to his appearances later on. Nobody remarks that this is a new Godzilla because his appearance is altered or his behavior isn't quite the same. The Legendary films also have Godzilla looking different between films but it still is the same King of the Monsters. Do the tie in comic books explain why his spikes look different in GKOTM? They do, but not only is that because continuity is a bigger deal these days, anyone who didn't read the comics wouldn't know about it because it isn't mentioned in the films.

Plenty of other series have similar things happen and people don't question if it's a different character due to tweaks in design or personality. In the MCU Bruce Banner goes from looking like Edward Norton to Mark Ruffalo yet nobody thinks he's a skrull imposter with a bad disguise. Even his green hued alter ego is changed, the Hulk of TIH is leaner and meaner, stands more upright, and has pretty impressive fighting skills. In the following films the Hulk is stouter, more ape-like, and is pure brute force with little skill. Still the same Incredible Hulk despite the changes. Ultraman goes from being skinny and wrinkly looking to having a smoother appearance and more heroic build in the original TV series. It's not like he tagged out so one of his lookalike brothers could take his place.

Godzilla went through character development in the Showa series. The fine folks at Toho may not have planned for it to happen early on but watching the movies it's clear as day that's what happens with Godzilla. When Showa Godzilla first appears he is destructive but much less so than the original Godzilla, while he does still rampage through towns and cities he doesn't completely destroy them, he's more preoccupied with fighting other monsters he views as threats to his territory and sleeping. After the events of Ghidorah the Three Headed Monster he saves the Earth from a threat far greater than himself and from that point on (alien mind control episodes aside) both he and humanity don't really attack each other again. Godzilla himself explains he feels like humans bully him for no reason, unlike his aggressive predecessor he's happy to mind his own business if he's not attacked.

After finding his son Minya and cooling off a bit (pun fully intended) he becomes a lot friendlier towards humanity and decides from that point on to defend his planet from extraterrestrial threats. After fighting alongside Rodan and Mothra he becomes a lot more prone to befriending other giant monsters as opposed to always trying to kill them. Toho clearly saw that they could not continue the series if they kept Godzilla an antagonist so they started making him something of a hero starting with Ghidorah the Three Headed Monster. With both Ultraman and Gamera proving the idea of a Kaiju fighting hero to be marketable one they continued Godzilla's transition into being a hero with Son of Godzilla and all the following films. Showa Godzilla is my favorite fictional character bar none so I'm pretty sure I would know if he was actually multiple different radioactive monsters.

An aside note, my brother loves the theory (and partially believes) that the Godzilla from Godzilla vs Hedorah onward is actually Minya all grown up. He thinks the friendly demeanor, rounder face, and the fact that Minya is absent (aside from stock footage in Godzilla vs Gigan) are all signs that Godzilla retired or gave up the ghost and that his son is now carrying on his legacy. I would love to see a series where Minya does become the new Godzilla but I don't think that's what happened in the films.
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Re: Is Showa Godzilla One Character?

Post by _JNavs_ »

Showa Gojira wrote: Wed May 19, 2021 11:01 pm He's obviously the same character throughout the Showa series, from the second film all the way to the fifteenth and final entry in the Showa series it follows the adventures of the second Godzilla. At no point do the films say a new Godzilla has appeared nor do they show any signs of such a thing happening. In the Heisei films Godzilla's appearance changes from the 1984 film to Godzilla vs Biollante quite drastically, with minor changes to his appearances later on. Nobody remarks that this is a new Godzilla because his appearance is altered or his behavior isn't quite the same. The Legendary films also have Godzilla looking different between films but it still is the same King of the Monsters. Do the tie in comic books explain why his spikes look different in GKOTM? They do, but not only is that because continuity is a bigger deal these days, anyone who didn't read the comics wouldn't know about it because it isn't mentioned in the films.
I'd argue Heisei Godzilla stayed the same character from 84 to 95. Physically he might have changed between 84 and GvB, but he still had the same personality.

I also wouldn't say "obviously", as the Showa films felt more like the Millennium era in terms of connective tissue, stock footage and "he fell in the water in this movie and came out of the water in that one! So they must be connected!" aside, they all felt completely standalone. His personality also wasn't just "not quite the same" it was downright completely different in every film, but the key difference here is, you chalk it up to character development, and I chalk it up to specific director intent.

As you said Toho likely didn't intend on that character development, their intent was to use the character in a series of movies that benefitted his icon status.
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Re: Is Showa Godzilla One Character?

Post by Voyager »

_JNavs_ wrote: Wed May 19, 2021 11:19 pmJust wanted to get your full attention :D
In IoAM they literally reference the last film’s events. The Xilien leader remarks about how Rodan and Godzilla already have defeated Ghidorah in the past.
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Re: Is Showa Godzilla One Character?

Post by _JNavs_ »

Voyager wrote: Wed May 19, 2021 11:22 pm Fair :Destoroyah:
Basically 64-72 I could see the argument for, I think.

73-75 seem like their entire own thing, and 54-62 are their own condensed concept.
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Re: Is Showa Godzilla One Character?

Post by Showa Gojira »

_JNavs_ wrote: Wed May 19, 2021 11:19 pm
Showa Gojira wrote: Wed May 19, 2021 11:01 pm He's obviously the same character throughout the Showa series, from the second film all the way to the fifteenth and final entry in the Showa series it follows the adventures of the second Godzilla. At no point do the films say a new Godzilla has appeared nor do they show any signs of such a thing happening. In the Heisei films Godzilla's appearance changes from the 1984 film to Godzilla vs Biollante quite drastically, with minor changes to his appearances later on. Nobody remarks that this is a new Godzilla because his appearance is altered or his behavior isn't quite the same. The Legendary films also have Godzilla looking different between films but it still is the same King of the Monsters. Do the tie in comic books explain why his spikes look different in GKOTM? They do, but not only is that because continuity is a bigger deal these days, anyone who didn't read the comics wouldn't know about it because it isn't mentioned in the films.
I'd argue Heisei Godzilla stayed the same character from 84 to 95. Physically he might have changed between 84 and GvB, but he still had the same personality.

I also wouldn't say "obviously", as the Showa films felt more like the Millennium era in terms of connective tissue, stock footage and "he fell in the water in this movie and came out of the water in that one! So they must be connected!" aside, they all felt completely standalone. His personality also wasn't just "not quite the same" it was downright completely different in every film, but the key difference here is, you chalk it up to character development, and I chalk it up to specific director intent.

As you said Toho likely didn't intend on that character development, their intent was to use the character in a series of movies that benefitted his icon status.
Heisei Godzilla was pretty docile in his first outing, but in Godzilla vs Biollante he was much more aggressive when attacking cities or battling the military. In The Return of Godzilla he doesn't even fire at the Super X until it shoots at him first. The Millennium films are clearly set in different continuities because not only do they (usually) feature different Godzilla suits but they each make mention of "how long it's been since Godzilla last appeared" or "What happened with his 1954 attack" that all differ from one another. Then there's the fact that Toho claimed they were making films that weren't sequels to one another, aside from the Kiryu duology, whereas the Showa movies are all clearly sequels.

The Showa movies have continuity even if it is loose. Godzilla gets frozen in Raids again, emerges from ice at the beginning of King Kong vs Godzilla. Godzilla fights Mothra in Mothra vs Godzilla, this is directly mentioned in Ghidorah the Three Headed Monster. In Godzilla vs Gigan the military commander recognizes Ghidorah's cackle but not Gigan's screech. In Terror of Mechagodzilla King Ghidorah, Rodan, and Manda are all mentioned as monsters that have previously attacked humanity. Just because the events don't line up perfectly or Godzilla's appearance and mannerisms aren't the exact same doesn't change that the Showa films all take place in the same universe and the second Godzilla stars in 14 of the 15 films.

The Universal Monster movies are another example of films with loose continuity. The location of Frankenstein's laboratory, when Larry Talbot changes into the Wolf Man, and Dracula's appearance all change throughout the movies yet they are all still connected even if loosely.
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Re: Is Showa Godzilla One Character?

Post by Voyager »

_JNavs_ wrote: Wed May 19, 2021 11:29 pm
Voyager wrote: Wed May 19, 2021 11:22 pm Fair :Destoroyah:
Basically 64-72 I could see the argument for, I think.

73-75 seem like their entire own thing, and 54-62 are their own condensed concept.
So, to clarify.

Your Godzillas from 54-75 are...

G54
G55-62 (could be separated)
G64-72 (99 included)
G73
G74-75

Is that right?
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Re: Is Showa Godzilla One Character?

Post by _JNavs_ »

Voyager wrote: Wed May 19, 2021 11:31 pm
_JNavs_ wrote: Wed May 19, 2021 11:29 pm
Voyager wrote: Wed May 19, 2021 11:22 pm Fair :Destoroyah:
Basically 64-72 I could see the argument for, I think.

73-75 seem like their entire own thing, and 54-62 are their own condensed concept.
So, to clarify.

Your Godzillas from 54-75 are...

G54
G55-62 (could be separated)
G64-72 (99 included)
G73
G74-75

Is that right?
Lol, yeah kind of, I think as far as how I'd view the continuity it'd be,

- 54 (55-62 could be added to this for a nice little trilogy, but for the sake of tradition I'll leave them separate)

-64-72 (Godzilla's Adventures essentially)

-73-75 (Godzilla the Superhero)

With each set (other than the first) essentially being reboots of the original character.
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Re: Is Showa Godzilla One Character?

Post by Showa Gojira »

_JNavs_ wrote: Wed May 19, 2021 11:36 pm Lol, yeah kind of, I think as far as how I'd view the continuity it'd be,

- 54 (55-62 could be added to this for a nice little trilogy, but for the sake of tradition I'll leave them separate)

-64-72 (Godzilla's Adventures essentially)

-73-75 (Godzilla the Superhero)

With each set (other than the first) essentially being reboots of the original character.
Wait, you wouldn't have Godzilla vs Gigan and Godzilla vs Megalon set in the same continuity? :eh: :?:
SoggyNoodles2016 wrote: Fri Nov 06, 2020 6:40 pm
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Re: Is Showa Godzilla One Character?

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Showa Gojira wrote: Wed May 19, 2021 11:44 pm
_JNavs_ wrote: Wed May 19, 2021 11:36 pm Lol, yeah kind of, I think as far as how I'd view the continuity it'd be,

- 54 (55-62 could be added to this for a nice little trilogy, but for the sake of tradition I'll leave them separate)

-64-72 (Godzilla's Adventures essentially)

-72-75 (Godzilla the Superhero)

With each set (other than the first) essentially being reboots of the original character.
Wait, you wouldn't have Godzilla vs Gigan and Godzilla vs Megalon set in the same continuity? :eh: :?:
Oh duh I guess they kinda have too eh? The suits threw me off.

Yeah it'd be 64-71 and 72-75

Although 71-75 is also acceptable.

There's clear period points within the Showa era that are hard to pinpoint once you get past 54-62.
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Re: Is Showa Godzilla One Character?

Post by Showa Gojira »

_JNavs_ wrote: Wed May 19, 2021 11:49 pm There's clear period points within the Showa era that are hard to pinpoint once you get past 54-62.
It's almost like all the movies are set in the same continuity, crazy right? :P
SoggyNoodles2016 wrote: Fri Nov 06, 2020 6:40 pm
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Re: Is Showa Godzilla One Character?

Post by LegendZilla »

Until the advent of home video, moviegoers never really went to see movies for continuity.

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Re: Is Showa Godzilla One Character?

Post by NSZ »

Wha- Yes, it's the same character! There's this thing called "character development"! You really think that in a series that goes on for twenty years, character development isn't going to occur????
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Re: Is Showa Godzilla One Character?

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_JNavs_ wrote: Wed May 19, 2021 10:00 pm Yeah I disagree, as the character itself goes through absolutely drastic changes that go beyond just physical, to the point where I see the Showa era as an anthology series similar to the Millennium era. There's just no way Raids Again Godzilla is the same Godzilla from Son of G and TOMG, But as I said in the FMs I am open to hearing more from the "Pros".. *insert pawn stars let me call in my buddy who's an expert meme*
The Millennium movies being an anthology series with distinct interpretations of the character of Godzilla doesn't make those versions of Godzilla different characters, though. Likewise, the Showa movies presented a lot of different takes on the character, but that doesn't make them different characters, any more than two different interpretations of any character are different characters.
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Re: Is Showa Godzilla One Character?

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_JNavs_ wrote: Wed May 19, 2021 11:19 pm I also wouldn't say "obviously", as the Showa films felt more like the Millennium era in terms of connective tissue, stock footage and "he fell in the water in this movie and came out of the water in that one! So they must be connected!" aside, they all felt completely standalone. His personality also wasn't just "not quite the same" it was downright completely different in every film, but the key difference here is, you chalk it up to character development, and I chalk it up to specific director intent.
Well... the movies were made to stand on their own, but that doesn't mean they constitute an anthology series. Loose continuity is still continuity nevertheless. I think you're viewing this from too modern a lens: LegendZilla is absolutely correct that unspoken continuity from film to film was mostly unheard of when these films were made. Think about it: if you didn't see these movies when they were initially released, there's a good chance you wouldn't see them again for years. So, from the studio's perspective, it would have been utterly foolish to create a series of films in which each subsequent entry was wholly reliant on knowledge of all previous entries. You'd be alienating most of your audience doing that. That's one reason why continuity is played fast and loose in the Showa Godzilla films, but you'll find that same approach was taken by most other long-running film series prior to the 1980s.

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Re: Is Showa Godzilla One Character?

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Terasawa wrote: Thu May 20, 2021 9:12 am Dammit, Evan sniped me.
We were making slightly different points. :)
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Re: Is Showa Godzilla One Character?

Post by Major sssspielberg! »

The Showa era is cool because each film stands on its own, but you can totally piece it all together if you really want to, especially in the 60s. Mothra, Mothra vs Godzilla, THM and Astros are a pretty solid saga of stories.
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Re: Is Showa Godzilla One Character?

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Yes, all though sometimes I like to think 54 - 75 are the same Godzilla under the idea that one small G-cell survived when the Oxygen Destroyer activated and the cell regenerated a whole new body again, or that Showa Godzilla is the younger brother of 54 Godzilla.
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