Talkback Thread #4: Mothra vs. Godzilla (1964)

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Agent Smith
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Re: Talkback Thread #4: Mothra vs. Godzilla (1964)

Post by Agent Smith »

This is a good one but I am not sure why it is called one of the best G films of all time. I mean don't get me wrong this is a good one, but I don't consider it on my top 5 or anything.

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Re: Talkback Thread #4: Mothra vs. Godzilla (1964)

Post by godjacob »

Just saying I think an ending like the proposed Mothra vs. Bagan (Where the larva team up with the old Imago to defeat Godzilla at the cost of the Imago's life) would have made for a more reasonable and emotional ending. With the Old Mothra already behind her best years it wouldn't even convey that Godzilla is stronger than her at her best.
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Re: Talkback Thread #4: Mothra vs. Godzilla (1964)

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Adding the imago Mothra to the final fight would make the threat of Godzilla seem a lot less difficult to overcome, though. The three working together and winning wouldn't be nearly as impressive a feat as the two infants succeeding on their own.
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Re: Talkback Thread #4: Mothra vs. Godzilla (1964)

Post by MogeGoji1994 »

Agent Smith wrote: Sat Jan 23, 2021 2:33 pm This is a good one but I am not sure why it is called one of the best G films of all time. I mean don't get me wrong this is a good one, but I don't consider it on my top 5 or anything.
It has a fantastic score, a really widely liked Godzilla design (I'm not the biggest fan of it but it has its merits), Godzilla is a villain which the average Godzilla fan seems to enjoy more, at least those on TohoKingdom from what I've gathered, Hondo's environmental message is clear, Mothra is simply a fun and great character, the writing and acting are really tight.

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Re: Talkback Thread #4: Mothra vs. Godzilla (1964)

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Yes the score is most definitely great and I like the Godzilla design as well. The film does have a few things going for it for sure. It does manage to have a vs movie without being too over the top or awkward. I think there are better examples of a fantastic Godzilla movie though. Not dissing the film or anything because it is still great, just not a top 5 for me. The only significant thing I really find wrong with the movie is the first half or so almost feels like a remake of Mothra.

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Re: Talkback Thread #4: Mothra vs. Godzilla (1964)

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Agent Smith wrote: Sun Jan 24, 2021 1:43 pm Yes the score is most definitely great and I like the Godzilla design as well. The film does have a few things going for it for sure. It does manage to have a vs movie without being too over the top or awkward. I think there are better examples of a fantastic Godzilla movie though. Not dissing the film or anything because it is still great, just not a top 5 for me. The only significant thing I really find wrong with the movie is the first half or so almost feels like a remake of Mothra.
It's interesting how a lot of the early Toho crossover films also work as remakes of other films. For example, KKVG is also a remake of both King Kong and Godzilla.
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Re: Talkback Thread #4: Mothra vs. Godzilla (1964)

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LSD Jellyfish wrote: Sun Jan 24, 2021 8:58 pm
Agent Smith wrote: Sun Jan 24, 2021 1:43 pm Yes the score is most definitely great and I like the Godzilla design as well. The film does have a few things going for it for sure. It does manage to have a vs movie without being too over the top or awkward. I think there are better examples of a fantastic Godzilla movie though. Not dissing the film or anything because it is still great, just not a top 5 for me. The only significant thing I really find wrong with the movie is the first half or so almost feels like a remake of Mothra.
It's interesting how a lot of the early Toho crossover films also work as remakes of other films. For example, KKVG is also a remake of both King Kong and Godzilla.
I think that's in large part a reflection of the less permanent relationship audiences had with media at the time. For the most part, people going to see Mothra vs. Godzilla had seen the original Mothra one time, four years earlier - and that's the ones who had seen it at all. Even more time had elapsed between the last Japanese theatrical re-issue of King Kong and the release of King Kong vs. Godzilla.
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Re: Talkback Thread #4: Mothra vs. Godzilla (1964)

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Agent Smith wrote: Sun Jan 24, 2021 1:43 pm Yes the score is most definitely great and I like the Godzilla design as well. The film does have a few things going for it for sure. It does manage to have a vs movie without being too over the top or awkward. I think there are better examples of a fantastic Godzilla movie though. Not dissing the film or anything because it is still great, just not a top 5 for me. The only significant thing I really find wrong with the movie is the first half or so almost feels like a remake of Mothra.
I kind of found the remaking of Mothra works for it. It does a great job of smoothing out some of the rougher edges in both KKvG and the original Mothra. Definitely my favorite of the Showa sequels.
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Re: Talkback Thread #4: Mothra vs. Godzilla (1964)

Post by DragonZord13 »

Am I the only one who feels that humanity bullies Godzilla in thia film? Godzilla kind of fumbles around and doesn't really attack because he is evil, but more because he is a confused animal. Which makes his line in GttHM make all the more sense.
I'm also in the camp that doesn't see this film as the gold standard for G fans. It's a ok film but not in my top 5 either.
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Re: Talkback Thread #4: Mothra vs. Godzilla (1964)

Post by edgaguirus »

The military does goad Godzilla in this movie. Godzilla causes some on screen destruction, but the attacks on Godzilla are featured more prominently. I'd put it down to Godzilla being treated as a mobile natural disaster, and humanity is trying to stop it before it does too much damage.
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Re: Talkback Thread #4: Mothra vs. Godzilla (1964)

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DragonZord13 wrote: Tue Mar 09, 2021 5:55 pm Am I the only one who feels that humanity bullies Godzilla in thia film? Godzilla kind of fumbles around and doesn't really attack because he is evil, but more because he is a confused animal. Which makes his line in GttHM make all the more sense.
Maybe 'bullies' isn't really the right word, given that he is a legitimate threat whether he intends to be or not, but he probably sees it that way. Most of the destruction he causes seems accidental, just the result of him being too big for the environment. And (unless you count attacking the egg) he never starts any of the fights he ends up in. He's always on the defensive, and really seems to do his best to ignore or avoid his attackers, only seriously fighting back if they corner or actually hurt him. It's kind of sad, really. He's a tragic villain in this film.
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Re: Talkback Thread #4: Mothra vs. Godzilla (1964)

Post by Rando Yaguchi »

This movie is so stinkin' good. A well-balanced, definitive take on Godzilla that fires on all cylinders.
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Re: Talkback Thread #4: Mothra vs. Godzilla (1964)

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Rando Yaguchi wrote: Thu Mar 11, 2021 3:32 pm This movie is so stinkin' good. A well-balanced, definitive take on Godzilla that fires on all cylinders.
I agree!

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Re: Talkback Thread #4: Mothra vs. Godzilla (1964)

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JAGzilla wrote: Thu Mar 11, 2021 8:15 am
DragonZord13 wrote: Tue Mar 09, 2021 5:55 pm Am I the only one who feels that humanity bullies Godzilla in thia film? Godzilla kind of fumbles around and doesn't really attack because he is evil, but more because he is a confused animal. Which makes his line in GttHM make all the more sense.
Maybe 'bullies' isn't really the right word, given that he is a legitimate threat whether he intends to be or not, but he probably sees it that way. Most of the destruction he causes seems accidental, just the result of him being too big for the environment. And (unless you count attacking the egg) he never starts any of the fights he ends up in. He's always on the defensive, and really seems to do his best to ignore or avoid his attackers, only seriously fighting back if they corner or actually hurt him. It's kind of sad, really. He's a tragic villain in this film.
The line also makes sense when one takes Raids Again into account. From what I remember after he killed Anguirus he seemed pretty content to leave civilization be and all of a sudden people bomb and bury him alive in a glacier for the next several years.
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Re: Talkback Thread #4: Mothra vs. Godzilla (1964)

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Kaltes-Herzeleid wrote: Thu Mar 11, 2021 5:59 pm
JAGzilla wrote: Thu Mar 11, 2021 8:15 am
DragonZord13 wrote: Tue Mar 09, 2021 5:55 pm Am I the only one who feels that humanity bullies Godzilla in thia film? Godzilla kind of fumbles around and doesn't really attack because he is evil, but more because he is a confused animal. Which makes his line in GttHM make all the more sense.
Maybe 'bullies' isn't really the right word, given that he is a legitimate threat whether he intends to be or not, but he probably sees it that way. Most of the destruction he causes seems accidental, just the result of him being too big for the environment. And (unless you count attacking the egg) he never starts any of the fights he ends up in. He's always on the defensive, and really seems to do his best to ignore or avoid his attackers, only seriously fighting back if they corner or actually hurt him. It's kind of sad, really. He's a tragic villain in this film.
The line also makes sense when one takes Raids Again into account. From what I remember after he killed Anguirus he seemed pretty content to leave civilization be and all of a sudden people bomb and bury him alive in a glacier for the next several years.
And that is why when he leaves the iceberg, he attacks the USSR in KKvG, and later, does maliciously attack Japan.
Last edited by Voyager on Thu Mar 11, 2021 6:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Talkback Thread #4: Mothra vs. Godzilla (1964)

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JAGzilla wrote: Thu Mar 11, 2021 8:15 am
Maybe 'bullies' isn't really the right word, given that he is a legitimate threat whether he intends to be or not, but he probably sees it that way. Most of the destruction he causes seems accidental, just the result of him being too big for the environment. And (unless you count attacking the egg) he never starts any of the fights he ends up in. He's always on the defensive, and really seems to do his best to ignore or avoid his attackers, only seriously fighting back if they corner or actually hurt him. It's kind of sad, really. He's a tragic villain in this film.
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Re: Talkback Thread #4: Mothra vs. Godzilla (1964)

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Jetty_Jags wrote: Thu Mar 11, 2021 8:02 pm
JAGzilla wrote: Thu Mar 11, 2021 8:15 am
Maybe 'bullies' isn't really the right word, given that he is a legitimate threat whether he intends to be or not, but he probably sees it that way. Most of the destruction he causes seems accidental, just the result of him being too big for the environment. And (unless you count attacking the egg) he never starts any of the fights he ends up in. He's always on the defensive, and really seems to do his best to ignore or avoid his attackers, only seriously fighting back if they corner or actually hurt him. It's kind of sad, really. He's a tragic villain in this film.
Ishiro Honda wrote: Monsters are tragic beings; they are born too tall, too strong, too heavy, they are not evil by choice. That is their tragedy
Yep. I considered including that quote, myself. :lol:
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Re: Talkback Thread #4: Mothra vs. Godzilla (1964)

Post by AK Siwach »

One of the best Godzilla films for sure! Convincing characters, a real plot, and of course plenty of monster action. The last film in the Showa series with an antagonistic Godzilla which is definitely noteworthy.

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Re: Talkback Thread #4: Mothra vs. Godzilla (1964)

Post by DragonZord13 »

The military is trying to kill him. Where subduing him would be the better option. Godzilla ia the victim in this movie. I don't think Godzilla wanted to attack the egg to be evil but I see it as him being more curious as to what the hell it is.
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Re: Talkback Thread #4: Mothra vs. Godzilla (1964)

Post by edgaguirus »

When I was younger I thought Godzilla wanted to eat it.
Are you saying that I put an abnormal brain into a 7 1/2 foot long, 54 inch wide....Gorilla! Is that what you're telling me?

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