Mothra (1961)

[shadowgigan]

This film is better than every Godzilla film outside of Mothra vs Godzilla (1964).

Fight me outside a Shoney's. Bet.

Although I may find other films more enjoyable, I’m not going to really argue against this. I feel modern day films cannot fulfill the sense of wonder I perceived when I watched films like Gojira or Mothra. I need to rewatch this ASAP.

[LSD Jellyfish]

I'm doing a large scale project about how this film is and an intentional portrayal of the exploitation of Oceanic cultures as well as the fallout of nuclear weapons on indigenous cultures in the Bikini Atoll.

I have some questions about Roscillia. I've read on wikizilla and TK that originally Roscillia was just the United States, but that Columbia at some point asked for a change in order for it to appeal better to Western audiences. Does anyone have a source for this? I don't doubt Age of the Gods, but I would like to know if there's some really source to find.

[LegendZilla]

^The act that this movie featured a fictional analogue to the United States, yet later Showa films explicitly stated the United State's existence goes to prove that literally every Showa film takes place in its own universe.

[LSD Jellyfish]

^The act that this movie featured a fictional analogue to the United States, yet later Showa films explicitly stated the United State's existence goes to prove that literally every Showa film takes place in its own universe.

No, that means absolutely nothing. I’m not asking if the United States exists in Mothra or the Showa era. I’m asking if there’s any easily quotable sources that show that Mothra 1961 originally featured the United States, but Roscillia was inserted in order to avoid scaring away American audiences.

[Spuro]

^The act that this movie featured a fictional analogue to the United States, yet later Showa films explicitly stated the United State's existence goes to prove that literally every Showa film takes place in its own universe.

Why couldn’t both Roscillia and the United States exist in the same universe?

And why would something that one movie did determine the canonicity of every other movie anyway? Whether Mothra is canon to Mothra vs Godzilla has no bearing on whether Mothra vs Godzilla is canon to Ghidorah: The Three Headed Monster.

[edgaguirus]

I'm doing a large scale project about how this film is and an intentional portrayal of the exploitation of Oceanic cultures as well as the fallout of nuclear weapons on indigenous cultures in the Bikini Atoll.

I have some questions about Roscillia. I've read on wikizilla and TK that originally Roscillia was just the United States, but that Columbia at some point asked for a change in order for it to appeal better to Western audiences. Does anyone have a source for this? I don't doubt Age of the Gods, but I would like to know if there's some really source to find.

According to what I've seen, Roscilia was representative of both the U.S and Russia.

[Terasawa]

I'm doing a large scale project about how this film is and an intentional portrayal of the exploitation of Oceanic cultures as well as the fallout of nuclear weapons on indigenous cultures in the Bikini Atoll.

I have some questions about Roscillia. I've read on wikizilla and TK that originally Roscillia was just the United States, but that Columbia at some point asked for a change in order for it to appeal better to Western audiences. Does anyone have a source for this? I don't doubt Age of the Gods, but I would like to know if there's some really source to find.

Variety reported it the other way around, link.

Your best bets for behind-the-scenes information on Mothra are the Godziszewski / Ryfle book and their commentary on the 2009 Sony DVD. I know they definitely mention Columbia's early involvement in the film, which seems to mainly have changed the ending from the scripted "Mothra tracks Nelson down and yeets him off a mountain" to "police kill Nelson while Mothra ravages New Kirk City." David Kalat also did a commentary for the recent Eureka Blu-ray (Euro release). Both of these are (unofficially) on YouTube.

There's also been some question as to the veracity of the uncorroborated information in Age of the Gods.

[LSD Jellyfish]

I'm doing a large scale project about how this film is and an intentional portrayal of the exploitation of Oceanic cultures as well as the fallout of nuclear weapons on indigenous cultures in the Bikini Atoll.

I have some questions about Roscillia. I've read on wikizilla and TK that originally Roscillia was just the United States, but that Columbia at some point asked for a change in order for it to appeal better to Western audiences. Does anyone have a source for this? I don't doubt Age of the Gods, but I would like to know if there's some really source to find.

Variety reported it the other way around, link.

Your best bets for behind-the-scenes information on Mothra are the Godziszewski / Ryfle book and their commentary on the 2009 Sony DVD. I know they definitely mention Columbia's early involvement in the film, which seems to mainly have changed the ending from the scripted "Mothra tracks Nelson down and yeets him off a mountain" to "police kill Nelson while Mothra ravages New Kirk City." David Kalat also did a commentary for the recent Eureka Blu-ray (Euro release). Both of these are (unofficially) on YouTube.

There's also been some question as to the veracity of the uncorroborated information in Age of the Gods.

Thank you for the information as always. Yeah, as much as Age of the Gods is an interesting report, and I don't want to dispute it, I'm unfortunately not sure if it would hold up to academic scrutiny considering it's an uncorroborated report.

Anyways, while I won't post it here, I wound up writing about how Mothra 1961 is directly related to the Bikini Atoll Incident and the exploitation of indigenous populations in the Pacific and Greater Oceania. For those that don't know, the experiences of the Infant Islanders in Mothra, Mothra vs. Godzilla and even Ebirah Horror of the Deep, all parallel real world experiences of Pacific Populations. When the United States was testing nuclear weapons in the South Pacific and Marshall Islands they "evacuated" populations with the promise of reimbursement. The islands were rendered largely inhabitable. Verbatim, most of the way the Infant Islanders are portrayed parallel these experiences. It's also worth noting that the inciting incident in Mothra, a fishing boat exposed to nuclear fallout, is a direct allusion to the Lucky Dragon 9 incident. Additionally, through the exploitation of the Shojibin, the narrative of native populations being directly exploited and fetishized for capitalistic gain, and being horribly misunderstood, is another way it shows the exploitation of native cultures.

I really feel that early Show-Era Toho, was totally on the ball with making really relevant films that were directly tied to important historical events, while also being enjoyable monster flicks to the casual viewer. A lot of this may be obvious to users and posters on here, but unfortunately well-written academic criticisms of Godzilla and early Toho films are sort of rare among academics beyond the "Godzilla is an allegory for the nuclear bomb.". While of course nuclear issues play a large role, I've recently been re-analyzing some of the early films and note that the social commentary is incredibly varied.

[Terasawa]

I've recently been re-analyzing some of the early films and note that the social commentary is incredibly varied.

This is why I'm hesitant to totally write-off films like Varan and Battle in Outer Space like some fans do. For the latter, as I've said before, I think much more thought was put into the film than is immediately apparent, especially with regards to the lunar setting. I think Varan is outwardly a lousy, virtually plotless movie, but it's still apparent that there's an attempt at commentary on native or traditional beliefs at the very least. Both of these films comment on the rapid modernization of the world and especially Japan by juxtaposing that with myth and folklore and traditionalism (it's done much more subtly in BioS).

IMO these are movies that need to be viewed through the lenses of Japanese culture and the Japanese worldview of their era to better understand them. As 21st century Americans we have to work that much harder to get all the important historical references in BioS, for example, or to understand the dynamic with the native characters in Varan. And I get that some fans don't want to do that. There's nothing wrong with watching these films as monster / sci-fi movies. I'm just interested in the motivations and decision-making processes of their filmmakers. I don't think either was made for purely commercial reasons.

[edgaguirus]

I've noticed several Showa era films make points, though they may be subtle to those not familiar with the culture. I'm not sure if The Mysterians was a veiled message about immigration and distrust of foreigners, but I can see it.

[Terasawa]

There's one reading of The Mysterians that's been discussed in the last few years where the Mysterians represent America's occupying force.

[LSD Jellyfish]

For the record, and in regards to BiOS and Varan, I don't think that social commentary makes a film any less better. However, when done right and seamlessly, which I feel films like Godzilla, Rodan and Mothra execute well enough, the same passion and interest in the social issue often is reflected in the passion put into making the film and the actual production.

Another large factor is whether the films "stick the landing" or not, or just entirely abandon their commentary. Mothra is pretty consistent with the exploitation of the Infant Islanders, Shojibin and nuclear testing. While the film shifts focus to it's titular monster, it takes careful effort to continually go back to the Shojibin and eventually ends with them being saved. Off the top of my head, once the rural village in Japan is left in Varan, arguably the most interesting and unique part of the film, the thread is completely abandoned and it becomes an incredibly stagnant monster flick.

[Terasawa]

For the record, and in regards to BiOS and Varan, I don't think that social commentary makes a film any less better. However, when done right and seamlessly, which I feel films like Godzilla, Rodan and Mothra execute well enough, the same passion and interest in the social issue often is reflected in the passion put into making the film and the actual production.

Another large factor is whether the films "stick the landing" or not, or just entirely abandon their commentary. Mothra is pretty consistent with the exploitation of the Infant Islanders, Shojibin and nuclear testing. While the film shifts focus to it's titular monster, it takes careful effort to continually go back to the Shojibin and eventually ends with them being saved. Off the top of my head, once the rural village in Japan is left in Varan, arguably the most interesting and unique part of the film, the thread is completely abandoned and it becomes an incredibly stagnant monster flick.

Oh yeah, it's not my implication that either of the films I mentioned were hidden masterpieces (though I still think BioS is better than its reputation suggests) because there's any level of substance below the surface. For one thing, I've seen all of these movies so many times that I'm constantly looking for new ways to look at and evaluate them, even if only for a fresh experience.

And even if something like BioS isn't trying to say anything in particular, the filmmakers were still shaped by many aspects of non-Western culture, literature, etc., and I think it's 100% worth looking into how that film alludes to (even if unintentionally) certain Japanese folktales; or how Varan and Half Human totally reflect the racism that informed those films' native characters. As you said, there are not many works that have already analyzed even the best films in the Toho canon in that manner. It's the kind of discussion I wish was more prevalent in the online community -- so to that end, thanks for your thoughts on Rodan and now Mothra.

[LSD Jellyfish]

One awesome little detail I noticed upon my rewatching of Mothra is a scene where the Shojibin are in the box, meant to break their telepathy with Mothra, and put their "clothes" on when people approach. You can't see much, but you can see them hurriedly put on their robes when Zen approaches. It's a fantastic and brief moment that shows how uncomfortable with all the "gifts" they've been given.

One of best choices, is showing that the Shojibin wear very simple clothes on Infant Island, but then are forced to dress up for Nelson and his crew. It's never explicitly paid attention to, but you can see how how the Shojibin are exocticized and put in a faux clothing. They're dressed in crowns and kimonos, despite that being a completely foreign concept. Nelson didn't kidnap any natives, so we can also assume that the dancers in the Mothra scene are also fake natives as well. While some of the portrayals of the natives are outdated by todays standards, it's these minor elements that make me really appreciate the film. It's definitely to me an early commentary and reaction to the exploitation of indigenous cultures, and in contrast to something like King Kong, which has a more conservationist tone, doesn't frame the island or it's people in a villainous light.

[Logan268]

Nelson didn't kidnap any natives, so we can also assume that the dancers in the Mothra scene are also fake natives as well. While some of the portrayals of the natives are outdated by todays standards

Care to elaborate more regarding some portrayals?

[LSD Jellyfish]

^^Just in general the use of makeup to make actors darker skinned and elaborate outfits. Some of it briefly goes into the "Ooga Booga" territory. A lot of early Toho films, like KKVG do the same thing. I'm not interested in getting into a big debate over it, but it's just an unfortunate byproduct of the era it was made in, and ultimately, relative to a lot of contemporary films, both Mothra and KKVG have very clear anti-imperialist/satirical messages.

Also: I can't easily find screenshots, but I think Mothra has some of the best work to convey how gigantic it is in the film. It might just be because Mothra isn't bipedal, but some of the shots of the prop moving forward really convey a sense of mass and hugeness. One thing that Mothra 1961 has over subsequent Mothra films is making the larva seem like a legitimately threatening force, as it just plows through dams and cities. It might just be because 1961's Mothra doesn't have another monster to stand next to, but it always feels like this was the largest larva we've ever gotten and even the prop they use for the monster is pretty big. Mothra is stated to be 180 meters long, which is actually gigantic. A lot of the shots have Mothra's head, coinciding with a lot of decently tall buildings.

I'm not sure how accurate this is, but it's pretty crazy to think about:

[edgaguirus]

I remember reading that they downsized Mothra for M vs G.

[Terasawa]

but it always feels like this was the largest larva we've ever gotten and even the prop they use for the monster is pretty big.

IIRC they used three differently-scaled props for different shots, but the biggest one was an 8-person costume that was approx. 6 feet tall and 33 feet long.



The shots of that Mothra bulldozing through large model buildings are awesome.

[mikelcho]

I remember reading that they downsized Mothra for M vs G.

Yes, they did, and it stuck throughout the entire Showa series.

[edgaguirus]

I guess they didn't want Mothra becoming a bigger star than Godzilla.