Talkback Thread #10: All Monsters Attack (1969)

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Legion1979
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Re: Talkback Thread #10: All Monsters Attack (1969)

Post by Legion1979 »

LegendZilla wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 11:39 pm This movie would likely be even more hated if it came out in the Heisei era.
...a film like this never would have been made in the Heisei era.

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Re: Talkback Thread #10: All Monsters Attack (1969)

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Voyager wrote: Wed Jun 29, 2022 1:27 am
LegendZilla wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 11:39 pm This movie would likely be even more hated if it came out in the Heisei era.
I see a pattern of posts.

We don’t dislike movies for simply being part of the Heisei Era.
You're right, TK dislikes movies for not being Showa ones :lol:

Humor aside, All Monsters Attack would be disliked in about any era. Cause it is a bad movie.
Last edited by godjacob on Wed Jun 29, 2022 10:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Talkback Thread #10: All Monsters Attack (1969)

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godjacob wrote: Wed Jun 29, 2022 10:13 am
Voyager wrote: Wed Jun 29, 2022 1:27 am
LegendZilla wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 11:39 pm This movie would likely be even more hated if it came out in the Heisei era.
I see a pattern of posts.

We don’t dislike movies for simply being part of the Heisei Era.
You're right, TK dislikes movies for not being Showa ones :lol:

Humor aside, All Monsters Attack would be disliked in about any era. Cause it is a bad movie.
I thought you said humor aside?

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Re: Talkback Thread #10: All Monsters Attack (1969)

Post by godjacob »

Legion1979 wrote: Wed Jun 29, 2022 10:38 am
godjacob wrote: Wed Jun 29, 2022 10:13 am
Voyager wrote: Wed Jun 29, 2022 1:27 am

I see a pattern of posts.

We don’t dislike movies for simply being part of the Heisei Era.
You're right, TK dislikes movies for not being Showa ones :lol:

Humor aside, All Monsters Attack would be disliked in about any era. Cause it is a bad movie.
I thought you said humor aside?
Did I stutter?
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Re: Talkback Thread #10: All Monsters Attack (1969)

Post by edgaguirus »

On the bright side, Ichiro is better than some of the kids we get in the Gamera films.
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Re: Talkback Thread #10: All Monsters Attack (1969)

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godjacob wrote: Wed Jun 29, 2022 10:13 am Cause it is a bad movie.
Why?
Spirit Ghidorah 2010 wrote: Sun Dec 03, 2023 4:54 pm Anno-san pleasures me more than Yamasaki-san.

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Re: Talkback Thread #10: All Monsters Attack (1969)

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Voyager wrote: Wed Jun 29, 2022 1:27 am
LegendZilla wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 11:39 pm This movie would likely be even more hated if it came out in the Heisei era.
I see a pattern of posts.

We don’t dislike movies for simply being part of the Heisei Era.
Maybe not just on that basis alone, but I can't help but feel that being biased against said era can play a role.

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Re: Talkback Thread #10: All Monsters Attack (1969)

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LSD Jellyfish wrote: Wed Jun 29, 2022 3:26 pm
godjacob wrote: Wed Jun 29, 2022 10:13 am Cause it is a bad movie.
Why?
Felt like I explained my reasoning in an earlier post here lol

Don't find the main lead to be that endearing. His whole thing of standing up for himself ends with him becoming no different than the bullies who picked on him, which doesn't really give his arc much of a satisfying resolution.

Overuse of stock footage. There's working with a lack of budget and then being downright lazy. This was excessive.

Minilla talking (Sub or dub) I do not support and took whatever I found endearing about the character in Son of Godzilla and pushed it past the point of tolerance.

Literally the only thing I found amusing about the film is Gabara.
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Re: Talkback Thread #10: All Monsters Attack (1969)

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LegendZilla wrote: Wed Jun 29, 2022 4:33 pm
Voyager wrote: Wed Jun 29, 2022 1:27 am
LegendZilla wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 11:39 pm This movie would likely be even more hated if it came out in the Heisei era.
I see a pattern of posts.

We don’t dislike movies for simply being part of the Heisei Era.
Maybe not just on that basis alone, but I can't help but feel that being biased against said era can play a role.
I do not get why you regard people not liking the era - or, in most cases, certain films from the era - as representing some kind of bias (beyond the inherent bias of personal taste). What reason do you think people have for disliking the series outside of sincere responses to the films themselves?
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Re: Talkback Thread #10: All Monsters Attack (1969)

Post by edgaguirus »

If you look at a certain topic in the Heisei page, it looks like that bias is not the majority.
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Re: Talkback Thread #10: All Monsters Attack (1969)

Post by LSD Jellyfish »

For those that are unaware, there's a rather interesting discussion of AMA's usage of stock footage in the "Unpopular Godzilla Thread". Semi-related to that, a few things stuck out to me, that made me think, specifically related to Gamera vs. Viras, and the other Showa Gamera films after Gamera vs. Gyaos. A lot of people dislike Ichiro, especially for his actions at the end of the film, and I think it's fine if you disagree with some of the choices there on a moral or philopsohical level, but it got me thinking to how "honest" AMA" is for a children's film, and it really elevates it for me. I don't think it's easy to compare to modern American children's films, but the Showa Gamera films are fair game given their similarties.

I've always felt that the Showa Gamera films, from vs. Viras to vs. Zigra have a heavy amount "good little Christian Children" theming applied to their child characters. Please note that I'm not saying this as an inherent negative, nor an implicit attack on religion, but rather the idea of how AMA contrasts to the idealized depictions of families and children. I'd also like to preference this with the fact that the Showa Gamera series does have a lot of highlights and great moments, so I don't want anyone to think this post reflects all my feelings towards the Showa Gamera series.

Gamera vs. Viras features the boy scouts (an actually pretty heavily influenced by Christianity Organization). While Tom and Masao are mischevious, and pull pranks, they are nowhere near as naughty as Ichiro nor encounter the same kinds of problems. Jim and Masao switch controls on a submarine, which sounds horrible, but it's treated as a result of being scientifically curious (a positive trait), and it's a fantastical scenario that can't be replicated. Ichiro goes to a place he shouldn't be an abandoned factory. Why? Because he's bored, a very real and replicateable action on a child's end. Gamera and the UN treat Jim and Masao as unique precious beings, who shouldn't be sacrifced to save the world. Ichiro is just a kid, with a big imagination, living in a very urban enviornment with little to do. After the children are rescued, they're all reunited with their loving families on a beach at the end. If I recall correctly, while AMA has a cheery reunion, it ends on a shot of Ichrio's mother crying in regret for allowing such things to happen.

Gamera vs. Guiron slightly ups the mischief, but it directly ties into a very clear, "listen to your elders" scenario. The entire catalyst of Gamera vs. Gurion is Tom and Akio not listening to their authority figures. They do not listen to their mother, and they do not listen to Officer Kondo, a local cop. While Japanese cops during the 60's are not a good analogue to modern day militarized American police, and there is genuine and real concern, Mr. Kondo is still an autority figure that the children disobey. Again, like the Submarine, the boys are in a fantastical scenario, where it's not replicateable. No children can find a UFO. For this, the boys are transported to another planet, where they are threatened to be eaten by Space Aliens. On Earth, both Tom and Akio's parents won't listen to Tomoko, a child, on the very real problem of the children suddenly dissapearing or there being any sort of problem. The kids overcome the aliens, with the help of Gamera, and they return, welcomed by their parents and Officer Kondo.The ending has some reflection on realizing that we can't have a world without traffic accidents, but it's a little strange in comparison to having little relation to everything that precedes it. I may be misremembering, and it may be me confusing the dubs and subs, but a significant amount of dialogue has things like, "praying to God", or things like, "Mama will scold you" reinforcing the more conserative atmosphere. Gamera vs. Guiron also takes place in a much more rural setting.

Gamera vs. Jiger instantly starts out with the exact same problems as the previous films: the children are talking about something relatively inacessible to most children: World Expo 70'. Thanks to connections, the children have access to this wonderful place (contrast to Ichiro) and explore. Gamera vs. Jiger has noticeably less "filler" than the previous films, and as a result there's a lot less child shennagins in the film. Tommy and Hiroshi save the day by driving a submarine that one of their fathers built. Tommy and Hiroshi briefly face peril at the hands of Baby Jiger, but it's in the stomach/lung of Gamera. Another fantastic setting and idea -wouldn't it all be nice if we had submarine inventor dads- that can't be replicared by real children. Less of a focus on the children, but still conforms to the previous two films tropes of children in fantastical settings

Gamera vs. Zigra is the one I forget the most, but if I recall, the children have scientist fathers, and get to go to a Water Park (Ishiro is sad he can't go to the water park, aliens or not). There's some moral about keeping the sea clean, through Zigra and the ending dialogue, but it's once again a poorly incporated message, "keep the seas clean, or a giant alien shark will get revenge".

So we have four films (Gamera vs. Viras~Gamera vs. Zigra), that all involve children who have a lot of access to their parents/authority figures and in addition to fantastic settings and technologies. They aren't bullied, school is seemingly non-existent, and the world caters to their safety and everywhim. This is exemplifed through the titular Gamera, friend of the children.

All Monsters Attack provides an inventor, Shinpei, but he's nowhere near the same calliber as the fantastical smart scientists who make minature submarines for children. He makes a computer for children, which is a little fantastical, but funnily enough Ichiro isn't impressed by knowledge. It's a major contrast to the children in Gamera who are always trying to learn and be good little boys. Ichiro doesn't get a trip to the zoo, or World Expo; he has to entertain himself through his imagination. His parents don't have the luxury of bringing him on big trips, they need to work so they can eat. His parents are normal working class people, a huge contrast to some of the parents in the Gamera films.

While of course Ichiro faces peril in the film, all of it is from real problems. While Tom and Akio deal with evil space aliens, Ichiro has to worry about bullies, bank robbers, and a polluted urban enviornment that won't cater to his whim. The children of the Gamera film face far off threats from the external, while Ichiro faces immediate and internal issues.

We can continue to extrapolate these themes to the monsters. Godzilla and Minya as a composite, are more interesting then Gamera. Minya has dialogue yes, but in one film he has a lot more development than any of the monsters. Unlike Gamera, Minya isn't someone that Ichiro looks up to, but confides in and gives advice to. Minya of course is a direct parallel to Ichiro. Beyond just Gabara and bullies, Minya is growing up in a place that isn't catered to him. Godzilla may be able to navigate Monster Island no problem, but Minya can't. It's a good reflection on how kids cannot traverse adult worlds so easily. Godzilla has less characterization, but the scenes of him being mildly abusive towards Minya, absent at various moments, and Minya being somewhat fearful, provide a more accurate portrayal of how some parents can be. Godzilla as a parent figure is flawed. I know this was a budgetary choice, and probably not intentional, but I also think it's fun remembering that Gabara is made from a modified Godzilla suit, proividing a connection to Godzilla and Minya. Gamera is sort of just a generic hero, with vaguely christian themes about always sacrificing himself for the well-being of others. He has zero connections to any of his villains in the Showa series.

I am not going to comment on whether Ichiro beating up Gabara in the end is a good moral or bad moral for children, but I do think it strikes a a very clear tone that violates the idealized peaceful and friendly nature of children in the Gamera series. The idea of Ichiro and Minya, is that sometimes adults won't be there to help them, so as the film states, "you have to learn to fight your own battles".

In sort of conclusion, I think that All Monsters Attack is an excellent children's film, for adressing real concerns of children and parents. The world presented is honest and flawed, and the threats are immediate. Something funny that I noticed about this film, is that it came out in the same year as Sesame Street. While these are somewhat superficial similarties, I find it interesting that a movie and a tv show were unique in tackling and portraying urban youth with monsters and puppets.
Last edited by LSD Jellyfish on Sun Aug 21, 2022 6:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Spirit Ghidorah 2010 wrote: Sun Dec 03, 2023 4:54 pm Anno-san pleasures me more than Yamasaki-san.

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Re: Talkback Thread #10: All Monsters Attack (1969)

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LSD Jellyfish wrote: Sun Aug 21, 2022 6:31 pmThe ending has some reflection on realizing that we can't have a world without traffic accidents, but it's a little strange in comparison to having little relation to everything that precedes it.
This is referencing a real-world problem, namely the alarming number of traffic accidents in late-1960s Japan (graph). Ichiro's hat in All Monsters Attack was also a reference to this: Ryfle and Godziszewski write, "With the proliferation of auto traffic, schoolchildren wore yellow caps to be visible to drivers."
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Re: Talkback Thread #10: All Monsters Attack (1969)

Post by LSD Jellyfish »

Terasawa wrote: Sun Aug 21, 2022 7:23 pm
LSD Jellyfish wrote: Sun Aug 21, 2022 6:31 pmThe ending has some reflection on realizing that we can't have a world without traffic accidents, but it's a little strange in comparison to having little relation to everything that precedes it.
This is referencing a real-world problem, namely the alarming number of traffic accidents in late-1960s Japan (graph). Ichiro's hat in All Monsters Attack was also a reference to this: Ryfle and Godziszewski write, "With the proliferation of auto traffic, schoolchildren wore yellow caps to be visible to drivers."
Oh wow, I never knew that! Interesting. But again, it's sort of haphzardly thrown in vs. Guiron, while at least AMA showcases the impact on children.
Spirit Ghidorah 2010 wrote: Sun Dec 03, 2023 4:54 pm Anno-san pleasures me more than Yamasaki-san.

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Re: Talkback Thread #10: All Monsters Attack (1969)

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LSD Jellyfish wrote: Sun Aug 21, 2022 7:25 pm
Terasawa wrote: Sun Aug 21, 2022 7:23 pm
LSD Jellyfish wrote: Sun Aug 21, 2022 6:31 pmThe ending has some reflection on realizing that we can't have a world without traffic accidents, but it's a little strange in comparison to having little relation to everything that precedes it.
This is referencing a real-world problem, namely the alarming number of traffic accidents in late-1960s Japan (graph). Ichiro's hat in All Monsters Attack was also a reference to this: Ryfle and Godziszewski write, "With the proliferation of auto traffic, schoolchildren wore yellow caps to be visible to drivers."
Oh wow, I never knew that! Interesting. But again, it's sort of haphzardly thrown in vs. Guiron, while at least AMA showcases the impact on children.
Yeah, AMA also opens with the kids' route home taking them through congested traffic. Although I think the isolated references Guiron are acceptable, AMA perfectly introduces us to these kids' depressing reality right from the get-go.
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Re: Talkback Thread #10: All Monsters Attack (1969)

Post by LegendZilla »

This is another movie that could’ve benefitted from a co-production. Since this movie has been historically part of the “Saperstein-pack” as I call it, perhaps Henry Saperstein himself could’ve helped fund this movie like how he did with Toho’s catalogue of films from 65-66 and later 1975. At most, this film would’ve been able to benefit from half as much stock footage.

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Re: Talkback Thread #10: All Monsters Attack (1969)

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LSD, that's a wonderful assessment and defense of Godzilla's Revenge, looking at it from an angle I've never thought about before. The only thing I could possibly add is extra info on Gamera vs Zigra. Much like Viras, the children (and the two scientists who are the adult protagonists) get stuck in a situation where the alien's ultimatum is "surrender or I'll kill the kids" and of course the humans would rather Zigra take over than have anything happen to the kids. In terms of mischief, the two kids (Kenny and Helen) are the absolute worst. They sneak aboard the bathyscope the men are using to assess Gamera's condition. Being on board complicates the entire trip and almost gets everyone killed. Also, Helen keeps whining about wanting a Coke, so there's that.

But...Gabara wasn't made from an old Godzilla suit.

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Re: Talkback Thread #10: All Monsters Attack (1969)

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Nice analysis, LSD. It's funny how the most casually hated (Japanese) Godzilla film in the franchise is quietly one of the most interesting.
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Re: Talkback Thread #10: All Monsters Attack (1969)

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LSD Jellyfish wrote: Sun Aug 21, 2022 6:31 pm I am not going to comment on whether Ichiro beating up Gabara in the end is a good moral or bad moral for children, but I do think it strikes a a very clear tone that violates the idealized peaceful and friendly nature of children in the Gamera series. The idea of Ichiro and Minya, is that sometimes adults won't be there to help them, so as the film states, "you have to learn to fight your own battles".
Yeah, I've always felt that AMA's storytelling is really predicated on being honest and realistic about a scenario in which, ultimately, there are no ideal outcomes, just different methods of navigating a very tricky, uncertain path. I think a lot of viewers make the mistake of assuming that because the film is made for children, it must be intended as a simplistic moral fable. That does not seem to have been Honda and Sekizawa's goal; instead, I think children are expected to relate to Ichiro, but not necessarily to imitate him (just as American children were never expected to go out and imitate Tom Sawyer). Hopefully, it's a movie that would lead to conversations between parents and children about how to handle things like loneliness, bullying and dangerous environments.
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Re: Talkback Thread #10: All Monsters Attack (1969)

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There's a lot to unpack with Godzilla's Revenge, more than most Godzilla films honestly. But as long as a fairly large hunk of this fandom is dead set on burying their inner child, can't move past a film with a talking baby Godzilla and refuses to learn more about the movie's genesis, its always going to be considered "trash" or the worst Godzilla movie.
Last edited by Legion1979 on Mon Aug 22, 2022 12:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Talkback Thread #10: All Monsters Attack (1969)

Post by Terasawa »

LegendZilla wrote: Sun Aug 21, 2022 9:36 pm This is another movie that could’ve benefitted from a co-production. Since this movie has been historically part of the “Saperstein-pack” as I call it, perhaps Henry Saperstein himself could’ve helped fund this movie like how he did with Toho’s catalogue of films from 65-66 and later 1975. At most, this film would’ve been able to benefit from half as much stock footage.
In 1969, when this movie was in production, Saperstein already had two films he'd co-produced with Toho and several others he'd licensed that he was unable to secure American distribution deals for. I don't see any scenario where he would have wanted to enter into more co-production arrangements at that time, especially considering Japanese audiences had all but abandoned Toho's monster films (even the ones he and other Americans pumped money into). This movie was made the way it was because that was the only way the Godzilla series could continue at that point in time; outside financing wouldn't have shifted audience demographics and brought more people into the theater.

And the only Japanese films Saperstein definitely co-produced were FCtW, MZ, WotG, and Hell in the Pacific (which originated in his co-production deal with Toho but was ultimately produced without their involvement). Terror of Mechagodzilla was just one of several already-completed films he acquired from Toho for U.S. release.
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