Leatherback Vs MUTO Vs Shin Godzilla Vs Gigan

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Leatherback Vs MUTO Vs Shin Godzilla Vs Gigan

Post by Gojira1604 »

Leatherback: https://pacificrim.fandom.com/wiki/Leatherback_(Kaiju)
MUTO: https://www.tohokingdom.com/kaiju/muto.html#male
SHIN: https://www.tohokingdom.com/kaiju/godzi ... tml#fourth
Gigan: https://www.tohokingdom.com/kaiju/gigan_mill.htm#1
Location: destroyed Tokyo Final Wars
Rules: scaled heights and weights. Shin is as tall as Gypsy Danger, Gigan is as tall as Gypsy Danger. Not Upgraded Gigan.
Verdict: I think Gigan wins if he plays it smart.

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Re: Leatherback Vs MUTO Vs Shin Godzilla Vs Gigan

Post by Spuro »

I... you know, for once in my life I'm actually voting Shin.

Leatherback and Final Wars Gigan definitely can't survive the beam spam when it goes off. Male Muto probably can't either.
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Re: Leatherback Vs MUTO Vs Shin Godzilla Vs Gigan

Post by ShinGojira14 »

Shin Godzilla sneezes and slices those fools into cauterized Swiss cheese.

This is a hate-crime slaughter with a light show, not a fight.
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Re: Leatherback Vs MUTO Vs Shin Godzilla Vs Gigan

Post by Gojira1604 »

Spuro wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 2:19 pm I... you know, for once in my life I'm actually voting Shin.

Leatherback and Final Wars Gigan definitely can't survive the beam spam when it goes off. Male Muto probably can't either.
I feel like at least Gigan would see it coming. Someone would. Then they retreat and get Shin while he's sleeping.

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Re: Leatherback Vs MUTO Vs Shin Godzilla Vs Gigan

Post by Nagoda »

Leatherback has no way to avoid the initial thermal flame burning the entire ground level. Gigan and the MUTO Quickly follow as Godzilla detects them flying around with his radar and snipes them with back beams.
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Re: Leatherback Vs MUTO Vs Shin Godzilla Vs Gigan

Post by Giratina93 »

Yeah, I'm voting for Shin here as well. The usual argument made against Shin is that if someone can survive the beam lasers until he exhausts himself out, they win by default, and that Shin is nonaggressive. However, given there are two flying adversaries here that will set his radar sense off, and the fact that no one here is going to withstand the laser light show means that either once Shin flips out or senses flying opposition, he's going to quickly win this.
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Re: Leatherback Vs MUTO Vs Shin Godzilla Vs Gigan

Post by Houndoom »

Odd man out but whether it's blades or buzzsaws I don't see how Gigan loses.
Leatherback: Does not have the durability nor utility to do anything against

MUTO: Gigan out speeds him and with poor durability it'll be a quicker and easier fight than against Mothra.

Shin: Shin's beams are no where near on par with FW beams. The fact that Gigan was able to tank at least one body shot form FW's beams leads me to believe he has enough durability to tanks Shin's. On top of flight, his own beams, flying buzzsaws, and either blades or more saws he should have enough damage output to put Shin down.

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Re: Leatherback Vs MUTO Vs Shin Godzilla Vs Gigan

Post by Spuro »

Houndoom wrote: Tue Aug 16, 2022 6:41 pm Shin: Shin's beams are no where near on par with FW beams. The fact that Gigan was able to tank at least one body shot form FW's beams leads me to believe he has enough durability to tanks Shin's. On top of flight, his own beams, flying buzzsaws, and either blades or more saws he should have enough damage output to put Shin down.
You're forgetting a crucial detail.

Final Wars Gigan exploded into tiny pieces when a moth that was on fire flew into him. He's the most frail monster here, by far.
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Re: Leatherback Vs MUTO Vs Shin Godzilla Vs Gigan

Post by Houndoom »

Spuro wrote: Tue Aug 16, 2022 7:29 pm
Houndoom wrote: Tue Aug 16, 2022 6:41 pm Shin: Shin's beams are no where near on par with FW beams. The fact that Gigan was able to tank at least one body shot form FW's beams leads me to believe he has enough durability to tanks Shin's. On top of flight, his own beams, flying buzzsaws, and either blades or more saws he should have enough damage output to put Shin down.
You're forgetting a crucial detail.

Final Wars Gigan exploded into tiny pieces when a moth that was on fire flew into him. He's the most frail monster here, by far.
Saying a moth that was on fire I feel is being somewhat disingenuous here. Regardless what bug Mothra is, it’s still Mothra. This is the same moth that was strong enough to knock down not only Gigan, but Monster X at the same time. And upon looking at various toy lines and apparently “Godzilla Final Wars Super Complete Works“ refer to a Fire Mothra form and attack called Fire Heat Attack. So with those I don’t think we can say it was JUST a moth on fire.

And with the first time Godzilla releases from the ice he tanked a beam only dying from a closer beam to the head.

If anything Gigan should have the best durability as Leatherback bled from a flare to the eye, Muto got pierced on the side of the building, and Shin bled from modern day bombs.

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Re: Leatherback Vs MUTO Vs Shin Godzilla Vs Gigan

Post by Voyager »

Houndoom wrote: Wed Aug 17, 2022 5:04 am
Spuro wrote: Tue Aug 16, 2022 7:29 pm
Houndoom wrote: Tue Aug 16, 2022 6:41 pm Shin: Shin's beams are no where near on par with FW beams. The fact that Gigan was able to tank at least one body shot form FW's beams leads me to believe he has enough durability to tanks Shin's. On top of flight, his own beams, flying buzzsaws, and either blades or more saws he should have enough damage output to put Shin down.
You're forgetting a crucial detail.

Final Wars Gigan exploded into tiny pieces when a moth that was on fire flew into him. He's the most frail monster here, by far.
Saying a moth that was on fire I feel is being somewhat disingenuous here. Regardless what bug Mothra is, it’s still Mothra. This is the same moth that was strong enough to knock down not only Gigan, but Monster X at the same time. And upon looking at various toy lines and apparently “Godzilla Final Wars Super Complete Works“ refer to a Fire Mothra form and attack called Fire Heat Attack. So with those I don’t think we can say it was JUST a moth on fire.

And with the first time Godzilla releases from the ice he tanked a beam only dying from a closer beam to the head.

If anything Gigan should have the best durability as Leatherback bled from a flare to the eye, Muto got pierced on the side of the building, and Shin bled from modern day bombs.

You talk about being disingenuous yet you say “MUTO got pierced by a building”.

The Male MUTO was slammed into the building by the entire force of Godzilla’s tail being whipped at Mach Speed.
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Re: Leatherback Vs MUTO Vs Shin Godzilla Vs Gigan

Post by Houndoom »

Voyager wrote: Wed Aug 17, 2022 2:24 pm
Houndoom wrote: Wed Aug 17, 2022 5:04 am
Spuro wrote: Tue Aug 16, 2022 7:29 pm

You're forgetting a crucial detail.

Final Wars Gigan exploded into tiny pieces when a moth that was on fire flew into him. He's the most frail monster here, by far.
Saying a moth that was on fire I feel is being somewhat disingenuous here. Regardless what bug Mothra is, it’s still Mothra. This is the same moth that was strong enough to knock down not only Gigan, but Monster X at the same time. And upon looking at various toy lines and apparently “Godzilla Final Wars Super Complete Works“ refer to a Fire Mothra form and attack called Fire Heat Attack. So with those I don’t think we can say it was JUST a moth on fire.

And with the first time Godzilla releases from the ice he tanked a beam only dying from a closer beam to the head.

If anything Gigan should have the best durability as Leatherback bled from a flare to the eye, Muto got pierced on the side of the building, and Shin bled from modern day bombs.

You talk about being disingenuous yet you say “MUTO got pierced by a building”.

The Male MUTO was slammed into the building by the entire force of Godzilla’s tail being whipped at Mach Speed.
My bad, I can see the issue with that. I guess Gigan just slices him at mach speeds then. :D

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Re: Leatherback Vs MUTO Vs Shin Godzilla Vs Gigan

Post by Voyager »

I still don’t know how you believe FW Gigan is somehow more durable than Shin.
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Re: Leatherback Vs MUTO Vs Shin Godzilla Vs Gigan

Post by Houndoom »

Voyager wrote: Wed Aug 17, 2022 4:01 pm I still don’t know how you believe FW Gigan is somehow more durable than Shin.
Unless I missed a scene or two, what leads you to believe Shin's durability is good? He withstood modern day conventional tank shells and rockets, and was caused to bleed from modern bombs. That somehow is better than Gigan tanking a body shot from FW beam? While he did have his head blown off, it was a close shot at his head. Gigan still manage to survive the first beam when Godzilla was released from the ice.

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Re: Leatherback Vs MUTO Vs Shin Godzilla Vs Gigan

Post by Voyager »

Houndoom wrote: Wed Aug 17, 2022 9:36 pm
Voyager wrote: Wed Aug 17, 2022 4:01 pm I still don’t know how you believe FW Gigan is somehow more durable than Shin.
Unless I missed a scene or two, what leads you to believe Shin's durability is good? He withstood modern day conventional tank shells and rockets, and was caused to bleed from modern bombs. That somehow is better than Gigan tanking a body shot from FW beam? While he did have his head blown off, it was a close shot at his head. Gigan still manage to survive the first beam when Godzilla was released from the ice.
Bunker busters that dig inside of the opponent before exploding would probably do that to any kaiju. They’re some of the most powerful non-nuclear weapons in the US arsenal. Everything else, bar the coagulant, did jack shit to Shin. He never even flinched. Gigan did not “tank” a body shot, he was screaming and writhing around in agony. He was hurt badly. No visible damage, sure, but it sure did hurt him a lot.

Gigan’s head was blown up by a single atomic breath when other, weaker, monsters didn’t die. Hedorah survived his bout with one of the more impressive beams in that film. Does that mean FW Hedorah is extremely durable too? And flaming Mothra was able to completely turn him to ash by just flying into him. And then we have his own saw-disks decapitating him, which is quite bizarre. This is another point against Gigan’s durability as well as one against intelligence.

You’ve also failed to mention how Gigan is meant to even kill Shin. Godzilla can blast Gigan from any direction, and it will hurt like the devil, if not outright slice him up.
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Re: Leatherback Vs MUTO Vs Shin Godzilla Vs Gigan

Post by Houndoom »

Voyager wrote: Wed Aug 17, 2022 10:11 pm
Houndoom wrote: Wed Aug 17, 2022 9:36 pm
Voyager wrote: Wed Aug 17, 2022 4:01 pm I still don’t know how you believe FW Gigan is somehow more durable than Shin.
Unless I missed a scene or two, what leads you to believe Shin's durability is good? He withstood modern day conventional tank shells and rockets, and was caused to bleed from modern bombs. That somehow is better than Gigan tanking a body shot from FW beam? While he did have his head blown off, it was a close shot at his head. Gigan still manage to survive the first beam when Godzilla was released from the ice.
Bunker busters that dig inside of the opponent before exploding would probably do that to any kaiju. They’re some of the most powerful non-nuclear weapons in the US arsenal. Everything else, bar the coagulant, did jack poop to Shin. He never even flinched. Gigan did not “tank” a body shot, he was screaming and writhing around in agony. He was hurt badly. No visible damage, sure, but it sure did hurt him a lot.

Gigan’s head was blown up by a single atomic breath when other, weaker, monsters didn’t die. Hedorah survived his bout with one of the more impressive beams in that film. Does that mean FW Hedorah is extremely durable too? And flaming Mothra was able to completely turn him to ash by just flying into him. And then we have his own saw-disks decapitating him, which is quite bizarre. This is another point against Gigan’s durability as well as one against intelligence.

You’ve also failed to mention how Gigan is meant to even kill Shin. Godzilla can blast Gigan from any direction, and it will hurt like the devil, if not outright slice him up.
Key word probably. Sure while we don't know, I'd wager it's nothing compared too what other kaiju have taken from various beams. And tanking rockets and AP shells is literally the kaiju standard, its nothing to write home about. "screaming and writhing around in agony." this is just flat out false. He takes a hit from the beam, then it cuts away to reaction shots, followed by Gigan flying and shooting his cluster beam. This idea we get a scene of Gigan in agony is just not true.

Hence why I said close up. The first blast was a considerable distance away, while the second blast was was used while Gigan was pulling him in with his hook cables. And sure we can say Hedorah is extremally durable? How exactly is that a counter point to Gigan? Again, how is flaming Mothra killing him a bad thing? There is no reason to believe Shin would survive even half of what happened to Gigan. He simply doesn't have the feats. As far as his buzzsaws, the book I talked about earlier allegedly explains that Mothra's spores or what ever caused them to malfunction and come back to Gigan. Without that context it is a rather jarring scene.

With his lack of any real durability feats I don't see why Gigan's saws and cluster beams wouldn't just turn him into chunks of meat. If Shin is reduced to a state were he has to heal and regen I think most would consider that a win. If a bombs velocity can penetrated him why couldn't Gigan's blades at mach 3 do the same?

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Re: Leatherback Vs MUTO Vs Shin Godzilla Vs Gigan

Post by Nagoda »

Just gonna drop this real quick in the middle of your fun conflicting viewpoints. FW’s Beam has more explosive and concussive force than Shin, but Shin has better heat, piercing, and quantity of beams.
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Re: Leatherback Vs MUTO Vs Shin Godzilla Vs Gigan

Post by Voyager »

Houndoom wrote: Wed Aug 17, 2022 10:44 pm
With his lack of any real durability feats I don't see why Gigan's saws and cluster beams wouldn't just turn him into chunks of meat. If Shin is reduced to a state were he has to heal and regen I think most would consider that a win. If a bombs velocity can penetrated him why couldn't Gigan's blades at mach 3 do the same?
Saws and cluster bombs turning Shin into mince meat? The cluster beams that aren’t anything to write home about? All things considered they’re just average beams with the gimmick of being like a shotgun. The building they hit would have faced the same fate had it been hit by pretty much any beam in kaijudom.

And the saws that he never uses? Be it his chest buzzsaw that he never once used in combat or his disks which are limited to the upgraded Gigan (this one isn’t), they’re not gonna be of much help. Shin’s also a lot heavier than GFW, so dragging him in with cables won’t be of much help. And no, the bomb’s velocity isn’t how it penetrated Shin. Bunker busters are specifically designed to penetrate 10-20 metres of Earth and 2 metres of reinforced concrete. Unless Gigan’s weapons can somehow penetrate deep into the ground, I don’t see them doing the same to Shin.

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I never thought I’d argue with someone about FW Gigan but here we are :lol:
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Re: Leatherback Vs MUTO Vs Shin Godzilla Vs Gigan

Post by Houndoom »

Voyager wrote: Thu Aug 18, 2022 12:44 am And no, the bomb’s velocity isn’t how it penetrated Shin. Bunker busters are specifically designed to penetrate 10-20 metres of Earth and 2 metres of reinforced concrete. Unless Gigan’s weapons can somehow penetrate deep into the ground, I don’t see them doing the same to Shin.
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I never thought I’d argue with someone about FW Gigan but here we are :lol:
Sadly that is literally how bunker busters work.
Bunker busters work for a few simple reasons. They are encased in a rigid tube, are extremely heavy, narrow, and are dropped from high in the air. Given that they are covered in highly hardened steel, the bombs can withstand and pierce through the Earth’s surface.

It is fundamental physics; once the giant bomb is dropped from the plane, it develops a significant amount of speed, building up kinetic energy as it falls all the way down. Once it hits the ground, it impales straight through the surface. Typically, there needs to be a delay before the bomb goes off. This is done by using a delay fuze or a hard target smart fuze (HTSF) so that the bomb doesn’t blow up before it hits its intended target.
Veteranlife . com. How else would they penetrate the target? Yes their shape helps but the driving force is that they travel mach 1 straight into the ground.
They would free-fall for around 30 seconds until, at 5,000 ft (1,500 m), the rockets were ignited, causing the tail section to be expelled. The rocket burn lasted for three seconds and added 300 ft/s (91 m/s) to the bomb's speed, giving a final impact speed of 1,450 ft/s (440 m/s; 990 mph), approximately Mach 1.29.
-Bunker Buster Bombs Wikipedia

If Gigan flies at Shin at his speed of Mach 3 and uses any of his weapons it will cut. Unless you're going to imply his blades are weaker than modern day steel. It doesn't matter if they haven't been shown in use in the movie, it's only logical that Gigan at mach 3 would be able to cut open Shin.

Shin has no reaction feats that imply he could even tag Gigan. B2 stealth bombers have a top speed of mach .95. I strongly believe Gigan, being over 3x faster than anything Shin has faced would be able to evade any beams, wait for the cool down and simply hack and slash at him till he is put down.
Last edited by Houndoom on Thu Aug 18, 2022 5:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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