Legion vs. The MUTOs

[wisper15]

This whole thread has degraded to essentially a cockfight.

Now, let's go into the actual combatants for the fight. For this, I'll break down the main attributes used in arguments in this so far. They are the following:

Strength
Speed/Maneuverability
Weaponry
Durability

I will also go over how the above attributes effect the combatants in-match.

Strength
Okay, so Legion is very large. And she won't hesitate to use that size and added weight to her advantage...if she ever used it more than once. I can only think of one time when Legion used her larger size. Now, when it comes to MUTOs, they aren't as strong... but they aren't frail. One of their main tactics is distraction. It's what stopped them from getting torn to pieces by LPG. And the female knocked a much larger foe on its ass. Granted, LPG was distracted... by the male on his head, thrusting his limbs at him. And I would be willing to bet the same situation would arise again. But, even then, Legion still has the strength edge over the MUTOs. But since she isn't the most limber of foes to utilize it, and the MUTOs just aren't big enough to use theirs. So bigger strength isn't a major factor; it just isn't able to be used well enough to effect the fight drastically.

Speed/Maneuverability
Do I have to even do this one? Clearly, the edge goes to the MUTOs. And before someone says Legion is fast enough to dodge Gamera's spike, that type of speed was used ONE TIME. Never again. For her size, yes, fast. Against two smaller foes, one of which is flying? No. And when it comes to dealing with larger foes, speed is one factor that can change the whole fight. In fact, this reminds me of when a fantasy match was made that changed the JP raptors for Utahraptors. Yes, they are larger, but that means they are not as limber as the JP raptors. So, size reduces speed. And Legion has A LOT of size. And when you have to face two monsters that are faster than you, and know how to team up on a larger foe, you're not going to fare well, unless you have something that can change the tide.

Weaponry
Legion, hands down. But not as you think. Sure, she has a dangerous beam... but she aims about as well as a blind man in WWI. Her beam has ever only grazed a monster, and even then, it only tore into it. And the 'splash damage'? Gamera has been stunned by missiles. MUTOs? Can't say the same. And they have no weaponry at all. Legion cannot aim at all, apparently, and even if the femuto is running at Legion, it's not like she'll hit her easily. Legion has proved her inability to aim worth a fuck multiple times. Gamera never tried to dodge once; the MUTOs won't either. So, again, weaponry, like strength, is a non-factor in this fight.

Durability
Oh, I have seen the comments before this. And MAN, did the bitch-flakes fly. Half the time, you 'guys' aren't even arguing about the fight, and arguing more about the durability. So I'm gonna cut right to it:
Legion and the MUTOs have been offed by the strongest weapon of their opponents. But Legion has also been damaged by conventional weapons. Yes, they were at weak points, but not once were the MUTOs effected by those kind of weapons. And if the MUTOs were able to puncture something that could take missiles STRONGER than the ones that damaged Legion, and feel nothing, that means Legion can be torn into here as well. Legion was able to withstand the Mana beam for 12 seconds. HOW THE FUCK IS THAT RELEVANT?! I can take an axe to the fucking arm for ten seconds before I pass out; I AM VERY DURABLE!!! No; bullshit. If she survived a shot from the Mana, it could be counted. But withstanding your death for 12 seconds is just that; withstanding your death. And if you seriously go off about the withstanding, I'll make a comparison of your logic with something a friend of mine once said. We were watching the news, and there was a story about someone who got shot ten times, and yet died three hours later. He said that guy was tough. I smacked the dipshit in the head; the guy isn't tough. IF HE WAS TOUGH, HE'D BE ALIVE! No; he was able to survive a mortal wound for a bit. So, the MUTOs got in more brutal and physical fights than Legion ever did. NOT ONE PART OF THEIR SMALL LIMBS EVER CAME OFF. Not-a-one. And they were thrown around a bit. Able to survive a strong beam before getting killed < being in very physical fights and not having small weak limbs broken off. It's just that simple.

So, now that I've done that shit, can I go over how this is likely to play out?

MUTOs are faster? Yes.
MUTOs are stronger? No.
MUTOs are better equipped? No.
MUTOs are more durable? Based on damage they took before they died? Hell yeah; they basically were unharmed before they died, as in they didn't have pieces missing.

Now, obviously, Legion is more durable. Know what that means? She'll be able to live a bit longer as the MUTOs tear her apart. That's all the advantage Legion has. Also, the only MUTO Legion could possibly hit with her beam is the Femuto. But she can't aim, and all it did was tear a chunk off Gamera. and Splash damage won't work if the thing you're trying to affect it with is already a good deal away from the impact point. Remember, MUTOs move more than Gamera. So, how does each factor add into the percentage of wins?

Well, this is how I see it. Two monsters versus one...

2-1 ratio for the MUTOs against Legion in mobility.

Strength? 1.5-1 ratio for Legion initially, but her mobility cuts .5 off, and the mobility of the MUTOs will add inertia and force to their normally weaker hits, adding a .5. So it's more like a 1-1.5, MUTOs again.

Weapons? 1-1 ratio; Legion cannot aim. And the MUTOs get up their opponent's face; Gamera stayed back, which gave Legion enough time to charge a beam and GRAZE him. That's like me, aiming at a stationary target... and hitting the shoulder, ripping a bit into the person. Won't take them out of action. Just hurts them. If they were moving right at me, I probably won't hit their shoulder as much; their body, their form, moves with each step. So I can aim to hit their shoulder, but will miss entirely because they bend forward to step with their front legs (the MUTOs)

Durability? 2-1 ratio to Legion, but again, factors cut that down. Durability is really nothing when you can't move fast enough to get out the way. So, basically, your durability at that point is just saying how long the other opponent( in this case, two) have to work to kill something that really can't do anything about it. Legion isn't going to move very fast in order to get the MUTOs off; LPG had to grab them. And Legion can't grab shit. So she'll just get torn into.

So, MUTOs win 8/10. The 20% on Legion's side is when she gets super-lucky, and hits a MUTO. But even then, I shouldn't give her 20% based on that, because once she's fired, the MUTO that survived isn't goin' anywhere fuckin' NEAR the front of Legion. And that's just saying they'll learn that if a shot HITS one of them; they aren't stupid. They see the damage it does to the ground, and they both will stay back from her front. And if they decide to attack constantly from behind, Legion is screwed. So, yeah, Legion is kinda handicapped in this fight.

Immobile < MobileX2

[EmperorGhidorah]

This whole thread has degraded to essentially a cockfight.

Now, let's go into the actual combatants for the fight. For this, I'll break down the main attributes used in arguments in this so far. They are the following:

Strength
Speed/Maneuverability
Weaponry
Durability

I will also go over how the above attributes effect the combatants in-match.

Strength
Okay, so Legion is very large. And she won't hesitate to use that size and added weight to her advantage...if she ever used it more than once. I can only think of one time when Legion used her larger size. Now, when it comes to MUTOs, they aren't as strong... but they aren't frail. One of their main tactics is distraction. It's what stopped them from getting torn to pieces by LPG. And the female knocked a much larger foe on its ass. Granted, LPG was distracted... by the male on his head, thrusting his limbs at him. And I would be willing to bet the same situation would arise again. But, even then, Legion still has the strength edge over the MUTOs. But since she isn't the most limber of foes to utilize it, and the MUTOs just aren't big enough to use theirs. So bigger strength isn't a major factor; it just isn't able to be used well enough to effect the fight drastically.

Speed/Maneuverability
Do I have to even do this one? Clearly, the edge goes to the MUTOs. And before someone says Legion is fast enough to dodge Gamera's spike, that type of speed was used ONE TIME. Never again. For her size, yes, fast. Against two smaller foes, one of which is flying? No. And when it comes to dealing with larger foes, speed is one factor that can change the whole fight. In fact, this reminds me of when a fantasy match was made that changed the JP raptors for Utahraptors. Yes, they are larger, but that means they are not as limber as the JP raptors. So, size reduces speed. And Legion has A LOT of size. And when you have to face two monsters that are faster than you, and know how to team up on a larger foe, you're not going to fare well, unless you have something that can change the tide.

Weaponry
Legion, hands down. But not as you think. Sure, she has a dangerous beam... but she aims about as well as a blind man in WWI. Her beam has ever only grazed a monster, and even then, it only tore into it. And the 'splash damage'? Gamera has been stunned by missiles. MUTOs? Can't say the same. And they have no weaponry at all. Legion cannot aim at all, apparently, and even if the femuto is running at Legion, it's not like she'll hit her easily. Legion has proved her inability to aim worth a skreeonk multiple times. Gamera never tried to dodge once; the MUTOs won't either. So, again, weaponry, like strength, is a non-factor in this fight.

Durability
Oh, I have seen the comments before this. And MAN, did the bitch-flakes fly. Half the time, you 'guys' aren't even arguing about the fight, and arguing more about the durability. So I'm gonna cut right to it:
Legion and the MUTOs have been offed by the strongest weapon of their opponents. But Legion has also been damaged by conventional weapons. Yes, they were at weak points, but not once were the MUTOs effected by those kind of weapons. And if the MUTOs were able to puncture something that could take missiles STRONGER than the ones that damaged Legion, and feel nothing, that means Legion can be torn into here as well. Legion was able to withstand the Mana beam for 12 seconds. HOW THE skreeonk IS THAT RELEVANT?! I can take an axe to the skreeonking arm for ten seconds before I pass out; I AM VERY DURABLE!!! No; bullshit. If she survived a shot from the Mana, it could be counted. But withstanding your death for 12 seconds is just that; withstanding your death. And if you seriously go off about the withstanding, I'll make a comparison of your logic with something a friend of mine once said. We were watching the news, and there was a story about someone who got shot ten times, and yet died three hours later. He said that guy was tough. I smacked the dipshit in the head; the guy isn't tough. IF HE WAS TOUGH, HE'D BE ALIVE! No; he was able to survive a mortal wound for a bit. So, the MUTOs got in more brutal and physical fights than Legion ever did. NOT ONE PART OF THEIR SMALL LIMBS EVER CAME OFF. Not-a-one. And they were thrown around a bit. Able to survive a strong beam before getting killed < being in very physical fights and not having small weak limbs broken off. It's just that simple.

So, now that I've done that shit, can I go over how this is likely to play out?

MUTOs are faster? Yes.
MUTOs are stronger? No.
MUTOs are better equipped? No.
MUTOs are more durable? Based on damage they took before they died? Hell yeah; they basically were unharmed before they died, as in they didn't have pieces missing.

Now, obviously, Legion is more durable. Know what that means? She'll be able to live a bit longer as the MUTOs tear her apart. That's all the advantage Legion has. Also, the only MUTO Legion could possibly hit with her beam is the Femuto. But she can't aim, and all it did was tear a chunk off Gamera. and Splash damage won't work if the thing you're trying to affect it with is already a good deal away from the impact point. Remember, MUTOs move more than Gamera. So, how does each factor add into the percentage of wins?

Well, this is how I see it. Two monsters versus one...

2-1 ratio for the MUTOs against Legion in mobility.

Strength? 1.5-1 ratio for Legion initially, but her mobility cuts .5 off, and the mobility of the MUTOs will add inertia and force to their normally weaker hits, adding a .5. So it's more like a 1-1.5, MUTOs again.

Weapons? 1-1 ratio; Legion cannot aim. And the MUTOs get up their opponent's face; Gamera stayed back, which gave Legion enough time to charge a beam and GRAZE him. That's like me, aiming at a stationary target... and hitting the shoulder, ripping a bit into the person. Won't take them out of action. Just hurts them. If they were moving right at me, I probably won't hit their shoulder as much; their body, their form, moves with each step. So I can aim to hit their shoulder, but will miss entirely because they bend forward to step with their front legs (the MUTOs)

Durability? 2-1 ratio to Legion, but again, factors cut that down. Durability is really nothing when you can't move fast enough to get out the way. So, basically, your durability at that point is just saying how long the other opponent( in this case, two) have to work to kill something that really can't do anything about it. Legion isn't going to move very fast in order to get the MUTOs off; LPG had to grab them. And Legion can't grab shit. So she'll just get torn into.

So, MUTOs win 8/10. The 20% on Legion's side is when she gets super-lucky, and hits a MUTO. But even then, I shouldn't give her 20% based on that, because once she's fired, the MUTO that survived isn't goin' anywhere skreeonkin' NEAR the front of Legion. And that's just saying they'll learn that if a shot HITS one of them; they aren't stupid. They see the damage it does to the ground, and they both will stay back from her front. And if they decide to attack constantly from behind, Legion is screwed. So, yeah, Legion is kinda handicapped in this fight.

Immobile < MobileX2

While the vast majority of this statement is correct, I still disagree with you on legion's durability.

Her immature self burst out of tons of rubble faster than megaguriruus burst out of water. That would have generated a considerable amount of friction, friction that legion gave two shits about.

And now we come to the thing I have a feeling we are going to never come to an agreement on. The Mana Beam. It does have a barring on durability. If another kaiju were to get hit by it and was destroyed by it in 8 seconds than said kaiju would be less durable than legion. We use the exact same line of logic for monsters like MG2 and keizer ghidorah being durable so why is it all of a sudden not ok for it to be used for legion?

I also disagree on your assumption that legion won't hit the Femuto but I'll just stick to durablity for now.

[Inferno Rodan]

Not quite.

1, Legion is herself engulfed in a massive explosion that blows her up in into tiny pieces. If it were all that loose and gaseous in composition, Legion would have gradually disintegrated into nothingness (aka, vaporized).

Legion are full of gas. Probably pure O2, given their habit of consuming glass (SiO2). When the exoskeleton of her main body was compromised and said gas therein exposed to the heat of the beam, it ignited. Kaboom goes Legion.

2, A pulse ring can been seen on impact. As far as I know, pulse rings are used to emphasize a shockwave produced from an explosion. A loose gaseous composition should not be creating pulse rings on impact.

Or it was just done to look cool. There was very clearly no explosion when it hit Legion. We're talking about a movie series where a monster simply crashing to the ground generates a 300-foot fireball on impact (Hyper Gyaos in G3). Hell, Gamera's fireballs make huge, fiery explosions on impact. Why would the Mana beam make a smaller explosion than Gamera's fireballs if it was supposed to be highly explosive?

3, The attack are of the same composition as Gamera's other fire based attacks, which show violent explosions on contact.

That's wrong, though. Gamera's Plasma Fireballs are plasma and fire. The Mana beam is mana.

lastly, I'm confused on how that thing doesn't have a "laser-like" force. It has as much laser like focus, as GMK Gojira's beams, MG's Plasma grenade or Mothra Leo's breast cannons (as in, the beam attack is a straight line projectile, fired continously)

It's very clear simply by looking at it that it's not as "dense" as most kaiju beam attacks. The outer edges of it are whispy and translucent, whereas most kaiju beam attacks essentially appear solid and have hard, defined edges, like a laser. That's what I meant.

[Infinity]

Legion are full of gas. Probably pure O2, given their habit of consuming glass (SiO2). When the exoskeleton of her main body was compromised and said gas therein exposed to the heat of the beam, it ignited. Kaboom goes Legion.

mmmm... Ok.

Or it was just done to look cool. There was very clearly no explosion when it hit Legion. We're talking about a movie series where a monster simply crashing to the ground generates a 300-foot fireball on impact (Hyper Gyaos in G3). Hell, Gamera's fireballs make huge, fiery explosions on impact. Why would the Mana beam make a smaller explosion than Gamera's fireballs if it was supposed to be highly explosive?

Which makes those feats the opposite of an outlier (i.e. It happens so frequently, that one is led to believe that the Kaiju and everything about them are explosive, due to their biomechanical design or other factors related to Biology). When Gyaos crashed on the ground in G3, he was horribly disfigured (his eyes were popping out, and his body was just a mess), so I wouldn't put it past the intention of the director to make that explosion the cause of that Gyaos's horrid condition. What Gamera did to him, I don't know... but it was brutally intense.

As for why the Mana beam creates smaller explosions than Gamera's fireball. The only explanation I can think of is that Legion's body negated that, much like how Heisei MG's body armor stopped Godzilla beam from making a huge explosion like they usually do. In this case, we do actually see one large explosion on impact, and two smaller, less intense ones before Legion finally explodes.

That's wrong, though. Gamera's Plasma Fireballs are plasma and fire. The Mana beam is mana.

By definition, Mana is just a special kind of earth force. Since its chemical nature is unknown, we can only speculate that its a combination of explosive, heat and kinetic energy which is what we see. The composition amount is up for interpretation.

It's very clear simply by looking at it that it's not as "dense" as most kaiju beam attacks. The outer edges of it are whispy and translucent, whereas most kaiju beam attacks essentially appear solid and have hard, defined edges, like a laser. That's what I meant.

Maybe so, but those minor cosmetic differences really don't make the beam any less destructive than those ones that are full laser like.

I highly doubt any Kaiju lacking good regeneration can survive that. It can probably one hit kill either of the MUTOs instantly or destroy Legendary Godzilla too, although with needing longer exposure time than that of Legion.

[Inferno Rodan]

Which makes those feats the opposite of an outlier (i.e. It happens so frequently, that one is led to believe that the Kaiju and everything about them are explosive, due to their biomechanical design or other factors related to Biology). When Gyaos crashed on the ground in G3, he was horribly disfigured (his eyes were popping out, and his body was just a mess), so I wouldn't put it past the intention of the director to make that explosion the cause of that Gyaos's horrid condition. What Gamera did to him, I don't know... but it was brutally intense.

My point was that explosions in the Heisei Gamera series are all super-exaggerated and fiery. The Mana beam didn't produce a large explosion, especially by the standards of the movie series, despite its absurd power. This indicates that it is not explosive.

As for why the Mana beam creates smaller explosions than Gamera's fireball. The only explanation I can think of is that Legion's body negated that, much like how Heisei MG's body armor stopped Godzilla beam from making a huge explosion like they usually do. In this case, we do actually see one large explosion on impact, and two smaller, less intense ones before Legion finally explodes.

Godzilla's beam didn't explode when striking MG's armor because MG was absorbing it. Legion has no such capability for absorbing energy attacks.

Again, the simple and logical explanation is that the Mana beam is not explosive.

By definition, Mana is just a special kind of earth force. Since its chemical nature is unknown, we can only speculate that its a combination of explosive, heat and kinetic energy which is what we see. The composition amount is up for interpretation.

Sure, why not.

Doesn't change the fact that the Plasma Fireballs and the Mana beam aren't made of the same thing, though.

Maybe so, but those minor cosmetic differences really don't make the beam any less destructive than those ones that are full laser like.

I highly doubt any Kaiju lacking good regeneration can survive that. It can probably one hit kill either of the MUTOs instantly or destroy Legendary Godzilla too, although with needing longer exposure time than that of Legion.

...Okay? I never said the Mana beam wasn't a stupidly powerful attack.

[wisper15]

While the vast majority of this statement is correct, I still disagree with you on legion's durability.

Her immature self burst out of tons of rubble faster than megaguriruus burst out of water. That would have generated a considerable amount of friction, friction that legion gave two shits about.

And now we come to the thing I have a feeling we are going to never come to an agreement on. The Mana Beam. It does have a barring on durability. If another kaiju were to get hit by it and was destroyed by it in 8 seconds than said kaiju would be less durable than legion. We use the exact same line of logic for monsters like MG2 and keizer ghidorah being durable so why is it all of a sudden not ok for it to be used for legion?

I also disagree on your assumption that legion won't hit the Femuto but I'll just stick to durablity for now.

Her durability only means in this case how long the MUTOs are going to have to work to tear her immobile ass to pieces. I said that in the earlier post. I also explained why her hitting a moving object in front of her, with her incompetent aim, isn't much of an argument. 99 out of 100 times, Legion misses. The one time it actually hits something, it only tears into the object. That, and Gamera was not moving. Let's think of it this way; when a horse is running, is its shoulder the same height as it was before? No. Shit, the MUTOs extra parts are also rather durable, since both kaiju can be flung around, yet not one part came off. That, and once a shot is fired, Legion HAS to hit, or the MUTOs are going to learn to stay away form her front. And she has no way of stopping the MUTO from behind. Yes, she may be able to survive a powerful beam. But there comes a point when durability is negated by amount of damage received.

I'm glad at least ONE person was able to acknowledge my post. I'm lookin' at you, Infinity & Inferno. That's one of the reasons why this thread is fuckin' spiraled; not willing to STOP ARGUING!

[Infinity]

My point was that explosions in the Heisei Gamera series are all super-exaggerated and fiery. The Mana beam didn't produce a large explosion, especially by the standards of the movie series, despite its absurd power. This indicates that it is not explosive.

We can't pretend that those aren't there. To your standards, they were poor, unimpressive and puny, but to me, the pulse inducing first boom, the brightly lit second one and the lesser third one before Legion's destruction are all indications of moderately powerful explosiveness. Afterall, the Mana beam's only known feat is blowing up Legion into tiny pieces.

If you have ever seen Dragon ball Z, you will notice that most of the fictional beams (specially Vegeta's Galick Gun) function very similar to the Mana beam. They are big beams that burn, push... and create explosions on impact. I take it that that's what the director intended it to function like.

Godzilla's beam didn't explode when striking MG's armor because MG was absorbing it. Legion has no such capability for absorbing energy attacks.

Again, the simple and logical explanation is that the Mana beam is not explosive.

I said negating, not absorbing. That silicon hide must be good for something now, wouldn't you agree?

...Okay? I never said the Mana beam wasn't a stupidly powerful attack.

My bad... I should have added that my previous post was more directed at the push and shove analogy you provided earlier in this thread.

The keyword in my statement to you was "destructive", because I was getting the impression that most people took the Mana beam's functional physics of inflicting damage, as that of a massive hair dryer. To me, it doesn't simply push and burn. It also punches in the form of explosions irrespective of how unimpressive they are in regards to every other explosion in the Gamera Trilogy.

[Beef Bigshot]

The main beam never struck me as necessary in gamera 2. It seemed ridiculously overpowered when dealing with legions's pathetic armor. If I remember correctly one fireball was enough to cause several of legions limbs to fall off or something.

That being said, I see the Mutos taking this more often than not. They could probably rip legion apart pretty well and especially if the male flied in and grabs legion, forcing her to miss her already not accurate blasts.

[MysticalDL]

This whole thread has degraded to essentially a cockfight.

Now, let's go into the actual combatants for the fight. For this, I'll break down the main attributes used in arguments in this so far. They are the following:

Strength
Speed/Maneuverability
Weaponry
Durability

I will also go over how the above attributes effect the combatants in-match.

Strength
Okay, so Legion is very large. And she won't hesitate to use that size and added weight to her advantage...if she ever used it more than once. I can only think of one time when Legion used her larger size. Now, when it comes to MUTOs, they aren't as strong... but they aren't frail. One of their main tactics is distraction. It's what stopped them from getting torn to pieces by LPG. And the female knocked a much larger foe on its ass. Granted, LPG was distracted... by the male on his head, thrusting his limbs at him. And I would be willing to bet the same situation would arise again. But, even then, Legion still has the strength edge over the MUTOs. But since she isn't the most limber of foes to utilize it, and the MUTOs just aren't big enough to use theirs. So bigger strength isn't a major factor; it just isn't able to be used well enough to effect the fight drastically.

Speed/Maneuverability
Do I have to even do this one? Clearly, the edge goes to the MUTOs. And before someone says Legion is fast enough to dodge Gamera's spike, that type of speed was used ONE TIME. Never again. For her size, yes, fast. Against two smaller foes, one of which is flying? No. And when it comes to dealing with larger foes, speed is one factor that can change the whole fight. In fact, this reminds me of when a fantasy match was made that changed the JP raptors for Utahraptors. Yes, they are larger, but that means they are not as limber as the JP raptors. So, size reduces speed. And Legion has A LOT of size. And when you have to face two monsters that are faster than you, and know how to team up on a larger foe, you're not going to fare well, unless you have something that can change the tide.

Weaponry
Legion, hands down. But not as you think. Sure, she has a dangerous beam... but she aims about as well as a blind man in WWI. Her beam has ever only grazed a monster, and even then, it only tore into it. And the 'splash damage'? Gamera has been stunned by missiles. MUTOs? Can't say the same. And they have no weaponry at all. Legion cannot aim at all, apparently, and even if the femuto is running at Legion, it's not like she'll hit her easily. Legion has proved her inability to aim worth a skreeonk multiple times. Gamera never tried to dodge once; the MUTOs won't either. So, again, weaponry, like strength, is a non-factor in this fight.

Durability
Oh, I have seen the comments before this. And MAN, did the bitch-flakes fly. Half the time, you 'guys' aren't even arguing about the fight, and arguing more about the durability. So I'm gonna cut right to it:
Legion and the MUTOs have been offed by the strongest weapon of their opponents. But Legion has also been damaged by conventional weapons. Yes, they were at weak points, but not once were the MUTOs effected by those kind of weapons. And if the MUTOs were able to puncture something that could take missiles STRONGER than the ones that damaged Legion, and feel nothing, that means Legion can be torn into here as well. Legion was able to withstand the Mana beam for 12 seconds. HOW THE skreeonk IS THAT RELEVANT?! I can take an axe to the skreeonking arm for ten seconds before I pass out; I AM VERY DURABLE!!! No; bullshit. If she survived a shot from the Mana, it could be counted. But withstanding your death for 12 seconds is just that; withstanding your death. And if you seriously go off about the withstanding, I'll make a comparison of your logic with something a friend of mine once said. We were watching the news, and there was a story about someone who got shot ten times, and yet died three hours later. He said that guy was tough. I smacked the dipshit in the head; the guy isn't tough. IF HE WAS TOUGH, HE'D BE ALIVE! No; he was able to survive a mortal wound for a bit. So, the MUTOs got in more brutal and physical fights than Legion ever did. NOT ONE PART OF THEIR SMALL LIMBS EVER CAME OFF. Not-a-one. And they were thrown around a bit. Able to survive a strong beam before getting killed < being in very physical fights and not having small weak limbs broken off. It's just that simple.

So, now that I've done that shit, can I go over how this is likely to play out?

MUTOs are faster? Yes.
MUTOs are stronger? No.
MUTOs are better equipped? No.
MUTOs are more durable? Based on damage they took before they died? Hell yeah; they basically were unharmed before they died, as in they didn't have pieces missing.

Now, obviously, Legion is more durable. Know what that means? She'll be able to live a bit longer as the MUTOs tear her apart. That's all the advantage Legion has. Also, the only MUTO Legion could possibly hit with her beam is the Femuto. But she can't aim, and all it did was tear a chunk off Gamera. and Splash damage won't work if the thing you're trying to affect it with is already a good deal away from the impact point. Remember, MUTOs move more than Gamera. So, how does each factor add into the percentage of wins?

Well, this is how I see it. Two monsters versus one...

2-1 ratio for the MUTOs against Legion in mobility.

Strength? 1.5-1 ratio for Legion initially, but her mobility cuts .5 off, and the mobility of the MUTOs will add inertia and force to their normally weaker hits, adding a .5. So it's more like a 1-1.5, MUTOs again.

Weapons? 1-1 ratio; Legion cannot aim. And the MUTOs get up their opponent's face; Gamera stayed back, which gave Legion enough time to charge a beam and GRAZE him. That's like me, aiming at a stationary target... and hitting the shoulder, ripping a bit into the person. Won't take them out of action. Just hurts them. If they were moving right at me, I probably won't hit their shoulder as much; their body, their form, moves with each step. So I can aim to hit their shoulder, but will miss entirely because they bend forward to step with their front legs (the MUTOs)

Durability? 2-1 ratio to Legion, but again, factors cut that down. Durability is really nothing when you can't move fast enough to get out the way. So, basically, your durability at that point is just saying how long the other opponent( in this case, two) have to work to kill something that really can't do anything about it. Legion isn't going to move very fast in order to get the MUTOs off; LPG had to grab them. And Legion can't grab shit. So she'll just get torn into.

So, MUTOs win 8/10. The 20% on Legion's side is when she gets super-lucky, and hits a MUTO. But even then, I shouldn't give her 20% based on that, because once she's fired, the MUTO that survived isn't goin' anywhere skreeonkin' NEAR the front of Legion. And that's just saying they'll learn that if a shot HITS one of them; they aren't stupid. They see the damage it does to the ground, and they both will stay back from her front. And if they decide to attack constantly from behind, Legion is screwed. So, yeah, Legion is kinda handicapped in this fight.

Immobile < MobileX2

While the vast majority of this statement is correct, I still disagree with you on legion's durability.

Her immature self burst out of tons of rubble faster than megaguriruus burst out of water. That would have generated a considerable amount of friction, friction that legion gave two shits about.

And now we come to the thing I have a feeling we are going to never come to an agreement on. The Mana Beam. It does have a barring on durability. If another kaiju were to get hit by it and was destroyed by it in 8 seconds than said kaiju would be less durable than legion. We use the exact same line of logic for monsters like MG2 and keizer ghidorah being durable so why is it all of a sudden not ok for it to be used for legion?

I also disagree on your assumption that legion won't hit the Femuto but I'll just stick to durablity for now.

MG2 was able to withstand 5 red spiral rays before destruction, whereas as Legion did not withstand the Mana Beam. That's why what MG2 did is a testament to really good durability, not mention that MG2 performed the feat without it's diamond coating making it more impressive.

[EmperorGhidorah]

This whole thread has degraded to essentially a cockfight.

Now, let's go into the actual combatants for the fight. For this, I'll break down the main attributes used in arguments in this so far. They are the following:

Strength
Speed/Maneuverability
Weaponry
Durability

I will also go over how the above attributes effect the combatants in-match.

Strength
Okay, so Legion is very large. And she won't hesitate to use that size and added weight to her advantage...if she ever used it more than once. I can only think of one time when Legion used her larger size. Now, when it comes to MUTOs, they aren't as strong... but they aren't frail. One of their main tactics is distraction. It's what stopped them from getting torn to pieces by LPG. And the female knocked a much larger foe on its ass. Granted, LPG was distracted... by the male on his head, thrusting his limbs at him. And I would be willing to bet the same situation would arise again. But, even then, Legion still has the strength edge over the MUTOs. But since she isn't the most limber of foes to utilize it, and the MUTOs just aren't big enough to use theirs. So bigger strength isn't a major factor; it just isn't able to be used well enough to effect the fight drastically.

Speed/Maneuverability
Do I have to even do this one? Clearly, the edge goes to the MUTOs. And before someone says Legion is fast enough to dodge Gamera's spike, that type of speed was used ONE TIME. Never again. For her size, yes, fast. Against two smaller foes, one of which is flying? No. And when it comes to dealing with larger foes, speed is one factor that can change the whole fight. In fact, this reminds me of when a fantasy match was made that changed the JP raptors for Utahraptors. Yes, they are larger, but that means they are not as limber as the JP raptors. So, size reduces speed. And Legion has A LOT of size. And when you have to face two monsters that are faster than you, and know how to team up on a larger foe, you're not going to fare well, unless you have something that can change the tide.

Weaponry
Legion, hands down. But not as you think. Sure, she has a dangerous beam... but she aims about as well as a blind man in WWI. Her beam has ever only grazed a monster, and even then, it only tore into it. And the 'splash damage'? Gamera has been stunned by missiles. MUTOs? Can't say the same. And they have no weaponry at all. Legion cannot aim at all, apparently, and even if the femuto is running at Legion, it's not like she'll hit her easily. Legion has proved her inability to aim worth a skreeonk multiple times. Gamera never tried to dodge once; the MUTOs won't either. So, again, weaponry, like strength, is a non-factor in this fight.

Durability
Oh, I have seen the comments before this. And MAN, did the bitch-flakes fly. Half the time, you 'guys' aren't even arguing about the fight, and arguing more about the durability. So I'm gonna cut right to it:
Legion and the MUTOs have been offed by the strongest weapon of their opponents. But Legion has also been damaged by conventional weapons. Yes, they were at weak points, but not once were the MUTOs effected by those kind of weapons. And if the MUTOs were able to puncture something that could take missiles STRONGER than the ones that damaged Legion, and feel nothing, that means Legion can be torn into here as well. Legion was able to withstand the Mana beam for 12 seconds. HOW THE skreeonk IS THAT RELEVANT?! I can take an axe to the skreeonking arm for ten seconds before I pass out; I AM VERY DURABLE!!! No; bullshit. If she survived a shot from the Mana, it could be counted. But withstanding your death for 12 seconds is just that; withstanding your death. And if you seriously go off about the withstanding, I'll make a comparison of your logic with something a friend of mine once said. We were watching the news, and there was a story about someone who got shot ten times, and yet died three hours later. He said that guy was tough. I smacked the dipshit in the head; the guy isn't tough. IF HE WAS TOUGH, HE'D BE ALIVE! No; he was able to survive a mortal wound for a bit. So, the MUTOs got in more brutal and physical fights than Legion ever did. NOT ONE PART OF THEIR SMALL LIMBS EVER CAME OFF. Not-a-one. And they were thrown around a bit. Able to survive a strong beam before getting killed < being in very physical fights and not having small weak limbs broken off. It's just that simple.

So, now that I've done that shit, can I go over how this is likely to play out?

MUTOs are faster? Yes.
MUTOs are stronger? No.
MUTOs are better equipped? No.
MUTOs are more durable? Based on damage they took before they died? Hell yeah; they basically were unharmed before they died, as in they didn't have pieces missing.

Now, obviously, Legion is more durable. Know what that means? She'll be able to live a bit longer as the MUTOs tear her apart. That's all the advantage Legion has. Also, the only MUTO Legion could possibly hit with her beam is the Femuto. But she can't aim, and all it did was tear a chunk off Gamera. and Splash damage won't work if the thing you're trying to affect it with is already a good deal away from the impact point. Remember, MUTOs move more than Gamera. So, how does each factor add into the percentage of wins?

Well, this is how I see it. Two monsters versus one...

2-1 ratio for the MUTOs against Legion in mobility.

Strength? 1.5-1 ratio for Legion initially, but her mobility cuts .5 off, and the mobility of the MUTOs will add inertia and force to their normally weaker hits, adding a .5. So it's more like a 1-1.5, MUTOs again.

Weapons? 1-1 ratio; Legion cannot aim. And the MUTOs get up their opponent's face; Gamera stayed back, which gave Legion enough time to charge a beam and GRAZE him. That's like me, aiming at a stationary target... and hitting the shoulder, ripping a bit into the person. Won't take them out of action. Just hurts them. If they were moving right at me, I probably won't hit their shoulder as much; their body, their form, moves with each step. So I can aim to hit their shoulder, but will miss entirely because they bend forward to step with their front legs (the MUTOs)

Durability? 2-1 ratio to Legion, but again, factors cut that down. Durability is really nothing when you can't move fast enough to get out the way. So, basically, your durability at that point is just saying how long the other opponent( in this case, two) have to work to kill something that really can't do anything about it. Legion isn't going to move very fast in order to get the MUTOs off; LPG had to grab them. And Legion can't grab shit. So she'll just get torn into.

So, MUTOs win 8/10. The 20% on Legion's side is when she gets super-lucky, and hits a MUTO. But even then, I shouldn't give her 20% based on that, because once she's fired, the MUTO that survived isn't goin' anywhere skreeonkin' NEAR the front of Legion. And that's just saying they'll learn that if a shot HITS one of them; they aren't stupid. They see the damage it does to the ground, and they both will stay back from her front. And if they decide to attack constantly from behind, Legion is screwed. So, yeah, Legion is kinda handicapped in this fight.

Immobile < MobileX2

While the vast majority of this statement is correct, I still disagree with you on legion's durability.

Her immature self burst out of tons of rubble faster than megaguriruus burst out of water. That would have generated a considerable amount of friction, friction that legion gave two shits about.

And now we come to the thing I have a feeling we are going to never come to an agreement on. The Mana Beam. It does have a barring on durability. If another kaiju were to get hit by it and was destroyed by it in 8 seconds than said kaiju would be less durable than legion. We use the exact same line of logic for monsters like MG2 and keizer ghidorah being durable so why is it all of a sudden not ok for it to be used for legion?

I also disagree on your assumption that legion won't hit the Femuto but I'll just stick to durablity for now.

MG2 was able to withstand 5 red spiral rays before destruction, whereas as Legion did not withstand the Mana Beam. That's why what MG2 did is a testament to really good durability, not mention that MG2 performed the feat without it's diamond coating making it more impressive.

First of all, one or two spiral rays is nowhere near as powerful as the mana beam.

And secondly, it doesn't matter if it took 5 to destroy him. MG2 didn't withstand them anymore than legion withstood the mana beam. Period. Legion was under constant barrage of a steady stream of much more destructive energy than the spiral rays.

The fact that MG2 was able to stay in relatively one piece for a good amount of time makes him durable. Legion did the exact same thing so it makes her durable. Please try to understand this.

[Tomzilla]

Legion withstanding Gamera's Mana Beam for several seconds is a demonstration of the upper limits of her durability. It is a legitimate durability feat, albeit one that shouldn't be taken lightly nor inflated beyond logic and reason. It wouldn't be a durability feat if Legion had been receiving damage throughout the entirety of the incident (e.g. silicon exoskeleton turning to gas, armor and limbs blasting off, etc.). She wasn't sustaining damage until the bitter end, therefore it's a testament to her resistance to extremely hot temperatures. Legion's defenses to piercing attacks is sadly lacking, however, meaning the MUTOs will still be carving her up something fierce in this fight.

Inferno Rodan, let's also dispense with this, "Cities in the Gameraverse are made of explodium," nonsense. Otherwise, people are going to start claiming the Patriot missiles that hit Gamera must've been retrofitted with explodium bombs.

[MM The Destroyer]

people are going to start claiming the Patriot missiles that hit Gamera must've been retrofitted with explodium bombs.

*Raises hand*

[Hybrid Gojira]

The Mutos are perfectly suited to beat a handicapped Legion (without her swarm) UNLESS she gets her laser whips. The Male Muto is extremely agile in the air and tends to sneak attack - Legion has no way to deal with this. The Female Muto could be killed by Legion, who after failing to hit Gamera squarely with her EM beam decided that a point blank shot would be the best option and almost succeeded in falling on Gamera and then firing it. If a similar situation happens to the Female Muto here, she's dead.

And despite Legion's inability to aim, the splash damage is quite ridiculous and I think it would be enough to eventually kill Femuto.

The problem? The Male never stops moving. What is Legion gonna do to him? At all?

Anyone?

Unless Legion unleashes her laser whips, she loses. And that could happen, but I'd favor the Mutos.

[EmperorGhidorah]

The problem? The Male never stops moving. What is Legion gonna do to him? At all?

Anyone?

Splash damage.

[Corzak The Mighty]

The problem? The Male never stops moving. What is Legion gonna do to him? At all?

Anyone?

Splash damage.

While he's in the air? Several hundred feet about the ground?

[EmperorGhidorah]

The problem? The Male never stops moving. What is Legion gonna do to him? At all?

Anyone?

Splash damage.

While he's in the air? Several hundred feet about the ground?

Um dude, you do realize that 90% of the time he flys at heights of a little over 300 feet above ground? You do also realize that the splash effect can reach heights of over 140 meters or 460 feet.

[Corzak The Mighty]

While he's in the air? Several hundred feet about the ground?

Um dude, you do realize that 90% of the time he flys at heights of a little over 300 feet above ground? You do also realize that the splash effect can reach heights of over 140 meters or 460 feet.

The male muto is also extremely agile. Even if it reached his flight level, he'd probably be well out of the way of its radius by the time the attack made impact.

[Godzelda]

What is this "splash damage" y'all are talking about? Do you mean the explosions the beam causes when it hits things? What are those gonna do, knock the male slightly off-course? That's certainly not enough to make Legion any less screwed.

[EmperorGhidorah]

While he's in the air? Several hundred feet about the ground?

Um dude, you do realize that 90% of the time he flys at heights of a little over 300 feet above ground? You do also realize that the splash effect can reach heights of over 140 meters or 460 feet.

The male muto is also extremely agile. Even if it reached his flight level, he'd probably be well out of the way of its radius by the time the attack made impact.

Sure he is agile but legion's beam dances around and it could end up shearing off his wing(s). He was agile enough to dodge LPG's tail strike but look how that turned out.

I also believe legion could down him with her legs not unlike how she grounded gamera in their first confrontation.

[Corzak The Mighty]

The male muto is also extremely agile. Even if it reached his flight level, he'd probably be well out of the way of its radius by the time the attack made impact.

Sure he is agile but legion's beam dances around and it could end up shearing off his wing(s). He was agile enough to dodge LPG's tail strike but look how that turned out.

I also believe legion could down him with her legs not unlike how she grounded gamera in their first confrontation.

That was because he was flying FULL SPEED at Godzilla. That'd be like trying to stop yourself mid-sprint from running into a wall.

I don't think you quite understand how the male muto fights. He never approaches from the front, he always tries to fly overhead and strike from behind. She'd never get the opportunity to use her legs.