LPG vs Team Gamera Villains

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LPG vs Team Gamera Villains

Post by Giratina93 »

https://www.tohokingdom.com/kaiju/godzilla_2014.html

Vs

https://www.tohokingdom.com/kaiju/legion.htm

https://www.tohokingdom.com/kaiju/gyaos.htm#h

https://www.tohokingdom.com/kaiju/iris.htm#i

Rules:

1. This is not charged G14/KOTM Godzilla

2. There are two Hyper Gyaos

3. No swarm for Legion.

Arena: Hawaii (G14)

I'm leaning LPG here. Even without being supercharged, he is going to decimate any of these kaiju by himself, and even together, I just don't think they have the firepower to effectively put him down, bar Legion being able to pin him underneath her and blasting him point blank, and even then we know LPG can just blast Legion off of him like he did to Ghidorah...
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Re: LPG vs Team Gamera Villains

Post by ShinGojira14 »

I’m totally leaning towards the Gamera villains. Iris is gonna be a deadly even match with Godzilla all on his own; two Hyper Gyaos added onto the mix will be even worse for the Monster King. Add the powerhouse badass that is Legion into the fray and Godzilla’s gonna get brutalized horribly.
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Re: LPG vs Team Gamera Villains

Post by Inferno Rodan »

What, exactly, are the villain trio going to do here? Legion is the only one that's remotely a threat, but even then not really because she's incapable of hitting anything with her only dangerous weapon. Her spear legs are nothing he hasn't handled before. Her durability is lackluster at best and Godzilla will tear her apart in short order.

As for Iris... well...



He's not going to be contributing much. And even when he's forced into fighting once Godzilla finishes with Legion, Godzilla will crumple him in a matter of moments because he barely does anything when he's on the ground. Ironically the Hyper Gyaos will last the longest and give Godzilla the most trouble because they'll stay out of reach. But the Sonic Cutters are nowhere near strong enough to deal any real damage to him, and Godzilla will only need to land a single hit with his beam to take each of them out.
Last edited by Inferno Rodan on Sat May 08, 2021 8:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: LPG vs Team Gamera Villains

Post by Zasraniec »

I am giving this to Team Gamera easily. The fact this isn't even a supercharged Godzilla means Godzilla is probably going to get crushed pretty quickly. If two MUTOs could down him with no problem I am sure this team is going to demolish him. 4v1 instead of 2v1 and they all have ranged capabilities. The sheer numbers are going to overwhelm Godzilla within seconds and there are no humans to bail him out this time. Legion might even be able to solo him although I think Godzilla will do much better than Gamera would and would probably win in a melee battle against her but unfortunately this is not a 1v1 fight. The Hyper Gyaos sonic beam might do some harm to Godzilla too and we all know this Godzilla doesn't like to use his beams so they at the very least will distract him from a more serious beating from the others. MUTO Prime's sonic attack was effective against Godzilla so I don't see why the Gyaos beams won't at least do minor damage. Iris I don't think could do any critical harm but can definitely slow down and distract Godzilla by impaling him like he did to Gamera. While Iris would be crushed 1v1 against Godzilla it'll probably live long enough to suck some energy out of Godzilla and return his beam. Again, not particularly fatal for Godzilla but powerful enough to at least distract him in a match where he is seriously outnumbered. Legion probably would be the tip of the spear in this fight but since Iris seems to prefer melee it very well could be Iris instead with Legion taking a ranged role, which actually is probably even more dangerous for Godzilla because melee is Godzilla's specialty and best way to him to fight each villain.

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Re: LPG vs Team Gamera Villains

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Zasraniec wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 4:23 pm I am giving this to Team Gamera easily. The fact this isn't even a supercharged Godzilla means Godzilla is probably going to get crushed pretty quickly.
Wut?

None of them have the weaponry to end the fight quickly. Even with their decent weaponry, they lack competence in using them (with the exception of Hyper Gyaos).
If two MUTOs could down him with no problem I am sure this team is going to demolish him.
"If a pair of Kaiju who evolved specifically to weaken and kill him can put him on the ropes, than a group of totally different Kaiju with no such adaptations can do much better"

The Mutos are more competent than any of the Kaiju Godzilla is facing here. And that not saying much at all in regards to Iris.
4v1 instead of 2v1 and they all have ranged capabilities.
Range abilities that half the team hardly puts to use.

Iris's sonic cutters only ever come to use in the air and Legion's em beam only gets used after she engages in melee. The former isn't coming out at all and the later isn't gonna be used either on the basis of Legion dying before getting a chance to use it.

Not that the em beam would be that useful anyway. Legion has some of the worst aim in Kaiju history. She somehow managed to miss a point blank shot against Gamera and had to get in his face to secure a direct hit. Trying that against Godzilla would be suicide.
The sheer numbers are going to overwhelm Godzilla within seconds and there are no humans to bail him out this time.
The only numbers worth anything are the Hyper Gyaos. As they have weapons that Godzilla will feel and put them to good use. But they'll be shot out of the sky anyway, so with them gone the rest of the team is pretty much screwed.
Legion might even be able to solo him although I think Godzilla will do much better than Gamera would and would probably win in a melee battle against her but unfortunately this is not a 1v1 fight.
She isn't even close to being able to solo him. And "probably"? Just look at their respective performance in melee. Godzilla would tear her apart.
The Hyper Gyaos sonic beam might do some harm to Godzilla too and we all know this Godzilla doesn't like to use his beams so they at the very least will distract him from a more serious beating from the others.
He's not at all hesitant to shoot at airborne pests. He's gonna open fire on them the moment he feels anything from the blast.
MUTO Prime's sonic attack was effective against Godzilla so I don't see why the Gyaos beams won't at least do minor damage.
False equivalence, Muto Prime's attack was an electro magnetic pressure wave. Not a sonic attack like the Gyaos. Also, sure they'll do minor damage but that's it. They're at best a distraction.
Iris I don't think could do any critical harm but can definitely slow down and distract Godzilla by impaling him like he did to Gamera. While Iris would be crushed 1v1 against Godzilla it'll probably live long enough to suck some energy out of Godzilla and return his beam.
None of the strategies are viable, nor are they something that they would put to use on their own.

Iris's go to strategy in melee is to literally just push his opponent for a while with little else. He threw one slow punch but that's it. He didn't put his spears to use until he was told to. And even then he was slow to actually deploy them. And it's not like they'd stab deep, or really stab much at all. Godzilla is more durable than Gamera.
Again, not particularly fatal for Godzilla but powerful enough to at least distract him in a match where he is seriously outnumbered. Legion probably would be the tip of the spear in this fight but since Iris seems to prefer melee it very well could be Iris instead with Legion taking a ranged role, which actually is probably even more dangerous for Godzilla because melee is Godzilla's specialty and best way to him to fight each villain.
He'd dismantle any of them in melee. Hyper Gyaos is the only one who's gonna last when targeted and that's purely due to his mobility. He will be caught and promptly killed eventually.

Legion's aim is so rancid that she's not gonna accomplish anything. Other than get Godzilla's attention on her is she happens to graze him, and at which point she's done for. Iris just stands there untill engaged, so he's guaranteed to die.

Seriously, those arguing in favor of the team here are only doing so by massively inflating their competence and overestimating their weaponry. Hyper Gyaos is the only competent team member in the fight. His team mates are, quite frankly, fools compared to him.
Last edited by Godzilla2020 on Mon May 17, 2021 10:06 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: LPG vs Team Gamera Villains

Post by Nagoda »

Godzilla2020 wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 10:02 am Not that the em beam would be that useful anyway. Legion has some of the worst aim in Kaiju history. She somehow managed to miss a point blank shot against Gamera and had to get in his face to secure a direct hit. Trying that against Godzilla would be suicide.
Everyone always says she missed a point blank shot, but are we sure that they weren’t deliberately shot that way? The first time she used it, it shot right though Gamera’s shoulder and that shot was not right up in his face. The second one stopped him from getting up faster by exploding right next to him to knock him aside, and the third one ignited all the buildings around him in order to disorient and keep him down, which it did, almost long enough for the flower to fire off into space. When fighting the military, she hit all the tanks with her beam. A much smaller target than the giant bipedal tortoise, but also one that she could just fire in a line with. During the second fight, she missed the first time Point Blank because Gamera was smart enough to fly while trapped beneath her, pushing her upwards and off him, forcing the beam to fire elsewhere. Second time I have no excuse for. That shot was shitty, but she did just lose most of her shield arms so pain might have been a factor there. The beam will definitely hurt if it hits Godzilla.

As for the Red Whips, I don’t think those are meant to kill monsters, in a conventional beam blows you up or a stabby stabby way, but more of a death by a thousand cuts sort of deal. They pierce fine, but they are very thin, they cut very well but don’t cut deep. If anything, they are more of use to keep someone away from you by threat of constant stabbing and slashing through your defenses, cause a Paper Cut seems hurts a lot longer than a normal cut. At least mentally since it leaves your nerve endings open. Against Godzilla? They would probably cut him fine, but he could probably power through them.
Godzilla2020 wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 10:02 am She isn't even close to being able to solo him. And "probably"? Just look at their respective performance in melee. Godzilla would tear her apart.
Godzilla would tear her apart? He probably could, if he doesn't get cut open with how sharp her lower limbs are. Her horn was sharp enough to cut Gamera by brushing against him, and sure his skin durability could be questionable in that movie, but her legs were also sharp enough to just tear right through his shell, and are long enough to where they can slash from the back of her body to the front. Meaning if she and Godzilla are grappling, she could very much stab him in the side with her back legs.

It could go both ways. Legion is one fast moving monster when she needs to be. Her ability to burrow very fast and quickly back the hell up when her egg sac is about to be slashed open is proof of that. If she burrows beneath Godzilla, she could very well ambush him like she did to Gamera and knock him on his ass. Plus, Legion is tall, and when she gets up all the way on her legs to slam someone into the ground, that’s going to hurt. She could probably pin Godzilla to the ground like that if he charges towards her front, and unlike Gamera, won’t have jets to launch his way out from under her and his own beam takes a couple seconds to charge. And we’ve seen his beam get interrupted from firing by Missiles, so a Sonic beam from the Gyaos would most likely serve the same purpose here. Plus she was constantly beating Gamera back in close combat, which she could most likely do the same to Godzilla.

And before you state, “But Godzilla could just tear her shield arms right off easily!”, think about why Gamera didn’t do the same? It took Missiles firing from her side where her shield wouldn’t affect them to strike them. Gamera was right up front the entire time they fought, so why didn’t he simply tear the arms off? The thing is, those arms are right to the side of her giant, very sharp, horn. They are on a wide frill like part of her body, just far enough for monsters to not be able to reach while dealing with her horn, and can very much still hit whoever is in her face with their tips. If they try going for the side arms, that leaves them open to her sharp horn to smack them aside.
Godzilla2020 wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 10:02 am
MUTO Prime's sonic attack was effective against Godzilla so I don't see why the Gyaos beams won't at least do minor damage.
False equivalence, Muto Prime's attack was an electro magnetic pressure wave. Not a sonic attack like the Gyaos. Also, sure they'll do minor damage but that's it. They're at best a distraction.
Where did you get the information that MUTO Prime’s Sonic scream was an Electro Magnetic Pressure Wave. Nowhere does it state such information. Every source I checked always say it uses Sonic vibrations to make a concussive blast, tuned to the harmonic frequency to shatter Godzilla’s spines and create seismic instability. As for Gyaos’s Sonic Ray? It probably won’t have the same affect here as unlike Prime, it’s not specifically tuned to shatter Godzilla’s spines, but it will annoy him if they hit the right spots.

I’d probably give this one to Team Gamera with heavy casualties. Especially since this is Pre-Supercharged Godzilla, meaning he’s going to be taking a couple seconds to charge up his beams, and they won’t be anywhere near as powerful as the one we see him use to push Ghidorah back in the Boston fight. Legion will be doing the most damage here, Iris I’m not so sure about unless he’s in the sky firing off beams, but he does have really long tendrils to use. The Gyaos only serve as distractions, but their aerial mobility should make them good distractions.
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Re: LPG vs Team Gamera Villains

Post by Inferno Rodan »

Nagoda wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 2:02 pm Everyone always says she missed a point blank shot, but are we sure that they weren’t deliberately shot that way? The first time she used it, it shot right though Gamera’s shoulder and that shot was not right up in his face. The second one stopped him from getting up faster by exploding right next to him to knock him aside, and the third one ignited all the buildings around him in order to disorient and keep him down, which it did, almost long enough for the flower to fire off into space. When fighting the military, she hit all the tanks with her beam. A much smaller target than the giant bipedal tortoise, but also one that she could just fire in a line with. During the second fight, she missed the first time Point Blank because Gamera was smart enough to fly while trapped beneath her, pushing her upwards and off him, forcing the beam to fire elsewhere. Second time I have no excuse for. That shot was shitty, but she did just lose most of her shield arms so pain might have been a factor there. The beam will definitely hurt if it hits Godzilla.
Y'know, the hilarious part is this sort of roundabout stupidity is perfectly in line with Heisei Gamera Trilogy kaiju "tactical" behavior. But unfortunately that's not what's going on with Legion's lack of accuracy. She can't hit anything with her EM Blast because she literally blinds herself in the process of charging and firing it. Think about it. It's a whole thing in the movie that the Legion see electromagnetic waves. Where does the EM Blast form when she's charging it up? Directly in front of her eyes. That's also why she had perfect aim with the Laser Whips: she didn't have the equivalent of a floodlight shining in her face when she was using them.
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Re: LPG vs Team Gamera Villains

Post by Nagoda »

Inferno Rodan wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 2:56 pm Y'know, the hilarious part is this sort of roundabout stupidity is perfectly in line with Heisei Gamera Trilogy kaiju "tactical" behavior. But unfortunately that's not what's going on with Legion's lack of accuracy. She can't hit anything with her EM Blast because she literally blinds herself in the process of charging and firing it. Think about it. It's a whole thing in the movie that the Legion see electromagnetic waves. Where does the EM Blast form when she's charging it up? Directly in front of her eyes. That's also why she had perfect aim with the Laser Whips: she didn't have the equivalent of a floodlight shining in her face when she was using them.
And yet, she still managed to destroy 50% of the Tank Battalion firing upon her with that floodlight in her eyes, in the first shot, at night. Even with the lack of accuracy, the chain of explosions it causes afterwards will most likely disorientate or knock Godzilla over.
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Re: LPG vs Team Gamera Villains

Post by Jermobooka »

Wait...so this isn’t post Mothra-power up Goji or even KOTM Goji?

Legendary is so screwed here lol
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Re: LPG vs Team Gamera Villains

Post by Inferno Rodan »

Nagoda wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 3:05 pm And yet, she still managed to destroy 50% of the Tank Battalion firing upon her with that floodlight in her eyes, in the first shot, at night.
Okay? She was attacking a mass of extremely frail things spread out over a wide area on the ground. The only way she could have not hit them is if she somehow managed to miss the ground entirely, which would be impressively bad even by her standards.
Even with the lack of accuracy, the chain of explosions it causes afterwards will most likely disorientate or knock Godzilla over.
It took 3 shots in rapid succession to even accomplish this against Gamera, who is leagues less durable than LP Godzilla. He'll be in her face tearing into her before that happens.

Jermobooka wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 3:29 pm Wait...so this isn’t post Mothra-power up Goji or even KOTM Goji?

Legendary is so screwed here lol
KOTM before he gets revived by the nuke counts too.
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Re: LPG vs Team Gamera Villains

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[quote]Wut?

None of them have the weaponry to end the fight quickly. Even with their decent weaponry, they lack competence in using them (with the exception of Hyper Gyaos)[/quote]
I think Nagoda did a good rebuttal that captures my thoughts on this so there is no need to add anything else here.
[quote]"If a pair of Kaiju who evolved specifically to weaken and kill him can put him on the ropes, than a group of totally different Kaiju with no such adaptations can do much better"

The Mutos are more competent than any of the Kaiju Godzilla is facing here. And that not saying much at all in regards to Iris.[/quote]
I fundamentally disagree. The MUTOs are only a threat to the planet because of their sheer numbers. This also applies to Gyaos but not Legion and Iris. The female MUTO was distracted from finishing off a far bigger threat to her aka Godzilla because her nest was destroyed. That is far worse tactically then anything the Gamera villains have done. Did Legion do this when the swarm was destroyed? Of course not. She stayed on task. Not only that but if we are taking EU into account here then Godzilla lost to a giant ape with no special abilities. That is pretty humiliating and really shows how overblown Monsterverse Godzilla really is by some fans. Especially by this specific incarnation, 2014. Obviously Godzilla has gotten more powerful over time.
[quote]Range abilities that half the team hardly puts to use.

Iris's sonic cutters only ever come to use in the air and Legion's em beam only gets used after she engages in melee. The former isn't coming out at all and the later isn't gonna be used either on the basis of Legion dying before getting a chance to use it.

Not that the em beam would be that useful anyway. Legion has some of the worst aim in Kaiju history. She somehow managed to miss a point blank shot against Gamera and had to get in his face to secure a direct hit. Trying that against Godzilla would be suicide.[/quote]
Nagoda had a good response but I would like to add that Legion has taken for more punishment than the MUTOs. Even Iris has. The Gyaos not so much. I agree Iris isn't much of a beamer, but it seems to prefer using it while airborne. All three of these villains can fly to give them a tactical edge against Godzilla here.
[quote]The only numbers worth anything are the Hyper Gyaos. As they have weapons that Godzilla will feel and put them to good use. But they'll be shot out of the sky anyway, so with them gone the rest of the team is pretty much screwed.[/quote]
If Legion and Iris fail to keep Godzilla's attention the Gyaos will be vulnerable to beam shots. There is just one problem with that. 2014's beams sucks. Even if I give him the full benefit of the doubt and say the lack of MUTO EMP gives him power like it did in KotM fine let's just say that happens. 2014 doesn't beam much. It is just not how he fights. If we were talking GvK Godzilla then yeah. Not only is that Godzilla more powered up and stronger than 2014, but he seems much more capable of beam spamming but this is not the case here.
[quote]She isn't even close to being able to solo him. And "probably"? Just look at their respective performance in melee. Godzilla would tear her apart.[/quote]
I did concede that in a pure melee fight Godzilla would probably "win" although I don't see how he actually has the firepower to harm Legion to the point where she could die. Gamera's mana blast was far more powerful than anything 2014 Godzilla dished out.
[quote]He's not at all hesitant to shoot at airborne pests. He's gonna open fire on them the moment he feels anything from the blast.[/quote]
Then why didn't he do that with the male MUTO? Could it be because he can't?
[quote]False equivalence, Muto Prime's attack was an electro magnetic pressure wave. Not a sonic attack like the Gyaos. Also, sure they'll do minor damage but that's it. They're at best a distraction[/quote]
https://www.tohokingdom.com/comics/cret/muto_prime.html
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[quote]None of the strategies are viable, nor are they something that they would put to use on their own.

Iris's go to strategy in melee is to literally just push his opponent for a while with little else. He threw one slow punch but that's it. He didn't put his spears to use until he was told to. And even then he was slow to actually deploy them. And it's not like they'd stab deep, or really stab much at all. Godzilla is more durable than Gamera.[/quote]
You aren't entirely wrong here except that it is a very viable strategy. The two MUTOs stabbed Godzilla and injured him with ease. While Godzilla is obviously more durable than Gamera and I even conceded he would probably win by a landslide in 1v1 this is not 1v1. Legion and Gyaos are very fierce fighters and will use whatever time Iris distracting Godzilla gives them. There isn't going to be a military attack that destroys a MUTO nest to save Godzilla this time.
[quote]He'd dismantle any of them in melee. Hyper Gyaos is the only one who's gonna last when targeted and that's purely due to his mobility. He will be caught and promptly killed eventually.

Legion's aim is so rancid that she's not gonna accomplish anything. Other than get Godzilla's attention on her is she happens to graze him, and at which point she's done for. Iris just stands there untill engaged, so he's guaranteed to die.

Seriously, those arguing in favor of the team here are only doing so by massively inflating their competence and overestimating their weaponry. Hyper Gyaos is the only competent team member in the fight. His team mates are, quite frankly, fools compared to him.[/quote]
I think I made it clear that I think Godzilla would "win" in a 1v1 melee fight against all of these opponents. I'll repeat though that 2014 Godzilla isn't very beam intensive and this puts him at a severe disadvantage against any opponents that can avoid his melee power such as the Gyaos. I agree with you on Iris being lame as a tactician. It just seems to do whatever it is told. However I disagree in you saying the same of Legion. Legion's first battle with Gamera showed she was capable of planning ahead of time with a strategy. Delay Gamera at all costs to let the Flower detonate. That's exactly what she did. When her objective was complete she retreated. If this were post power up Godzilla I think the argument for Godzilla winning this fight is much stronger. As for 2014 though not so much.

Edit: Can someone tell me how to quote properly on this subforum?
Last edited by Zasraniec on Mon May 17, 2021 7:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: LPG vs Team Gamera Villains

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Nagoda wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 2:02 pmEveryone always says she missed a point blank shot, but are we sure that they weren’t deliberately shot that way? The first time she used it, it shot right though Gamera’s shoulder and that shot was not right up in his face. The second one stopped him from getting up faster by exploding right next to him to knock him aside, and the third one ignited all the buildings around him in order to disorient and keep him down, which it did, almost long enough for the flower to fire off into space. When fighting the military, she hit all the tanks with her beam. A much smaller target than the giant bipedal tortoise, but also one that she could just fire in a line with. During the second fight, she missed the first time Point Blank because Gamera was smart enough to fly while trapped beneath her, pushing her upwards and off him, forcing the beam to fire elsewhere. Second time I have no excuse for. That shot was shitty, but she did just lose most of her shield arms so pain might have been a factor there. The beam will definitely hurt if it hits Godzilla.
This was already addressed by Inferno Rodan.
Nagoda wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 2:02 pmAs for the Red Whips, I don’t think those are meant to kill monsters, in a conventional beam blows you up or a stabby stabby way, but more of a death by a thousand cuts sort of deal. They pierce fine, but they are very thin, they cut very well but don’t cut deep. If anything, they are more of use to keep someone away from you by threat of constant stabbing and slashing through your defenses, cause a Paper Cut seems hurts a lot longer than a normal cut. At least mentally since it leaves your nerve endings open. Against Godzilla? They would probably cut him fine, but he could probably power through them.
If Legion is even put into the position where the red whips can come out than she'd already be dead. Gamera, for some reason just stood there when she fell over and layed unconscious. Godzilla wouldn't do that, he's gonna stomp her face into a pulp if she just feel over in front of him and layed there, while still being very much alive.

Also, the whips failed the get past Gamera's skull. It's likely that they won't penetrate everything.
Nagoda wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 2:02 pmGodzilla would tear her apart? He probably could, if he doesn't get cut open with how sharp her lower limbs are. Her horn was sharp enough to cut Gamera by brushing against him, and sure his skin durability could be questionable in that movie, but her legs were also sharp enough to just tear right through his shell, and are long enough to where they can slash from the back of her body to the front. Meaning if she and Godzilla are grappling, she could very much stab him in the side with her back legs.
Again, Godzilla's scales are much more durable than Gamera's. He's not gonna take any damage from a horn that had to strike multiple times to achieve any penetration on a much less durable foe.

That and her legs get put to use after a lengthy shoving match with Gamera. Godzilla is gonna go for her throat from the start. She'll be dead long before she can even think to use her legs. Even if she fought out of character and put them to use, so what? She needed plenty of leverage for them to stab Gamera and a clear shot. Leverage that Godzilla isn't gonna give her, nor is he gonna be just standing there. And again, there's the durability difference, there not going into Godzilla nearly as well as they did Gamera. And they did nothing to even suggest that they could gut him, and she never even tries to gut foes with them.

Your description of her has her fighting massively out of character while boosting her stats beyond what they canonically are.
Nagoda wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 2:02 pmIt could go both ways. Legion is one fast moving monster when she needs to be. Her ability to burrow very fast and quickly back the hell up when her egg sac is about to be slashed open is proof of that.
That was one burst of speed compared to consistently slow movements throughout the movie. It's unlikely that she would live long enough here to even put that to use. Especially since Godzilla is gonna be grabbing and mauling her, not striking.
Nagoda wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 2:02 pmIf she burrows beneath Godzilla, she could very well ambush him like she did to Gamera and knock him on his ass.
She never burrows mid combat. Even if she tried an ambush, her legs only knocked Gamera out of the air because he ran right into them. Godzilla wouldn't just let them strike him. He's either gonna grab and maul one or just yank her out of the ground.,
Nagoda wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 2:02 pmPlus, Legion is tall, and when she gets up all the way on her legs to slam someone into the ground, that’s going to hurt. She could probably pin Godzilla to the ground like that if he charges towards her front, and unlike Gamera, won’t have jets to launch his way out from under her and his own beam takes a couple seconds to charge. And we’ve seen his beam get interrupted from firing by Missiles, so a Sonic beam from the Gyaos would most likely serve the same purpose here. Plus she was constantly beating Gamera back in close combat, which she could most likely do the same to Godzilla.
Attempting to pin Godzilla is by and far one of the worst things Legion can attempt. There's literally no way that could end well for her.

Just leaning up would be a bad idea. Godzilla is quick to bulldoze opponents, and with her in that position he could do so easily. Just imaging how bad it would be if Legion found her self laying on her back, she;d be easy prey for him from there.

Even if he, for some reason doesn't introduce her face to the ground the second she leans up, actually pinning him would be damn near impossible for her. Godzilla is much more stable than Gamera, with his thick tail as a counter balance. Trying to fall on him isn't putting him on his back. She'll just be leaning her body on his face, which would be a monumentally dumb idea.

Hell, he could just bend over. Doing so would subject Legion to the Kaiju equivalent of flopping on to knives.

Even if, against all odds she some how pins him. Godzilla doesn't knock her over before she can fall on him and his stability doesn't come into play, so what? Legendary Godzilla is quick the go for his atomic breath when he's pinned on his back, like damn near instantly. Legion's viable to lose her face trying that.

So there is literally no way that attempting to pin Godzilla can go well for her. Not that she would live long enough to try it, as Godzilla is gonna maul her the second he gets his claws on her.
Nagoda wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 2:02 pmAnd before you state, “But Godzilla could just tear her shield arms right off easily!”, think about why Gamera didn’t do the same? It took Missiles firing from her side where her shield wouldn’t affect them to strike them. Gamera was right up front the entire time they fought, so why didn’t he simply tear the arms off? The thing is, those arms are right to the side of her giant, very sharp, horn. They are on a wide frill like part of her body, just far enough for monsters to not be able to reach while dealing with her horn, and can very much still hit whoever is in her face with their tips. If they try going for the side arms, that leaves them open to her sharp horn to smack them aside.
I never even considered her shield arms in this anyway. But now that you mention it, he could if he wanted to. He's far faster and more ferocious than Gamera is in melee and his scales are too tough for her horn to be a threat. So she really can't stop him from doing so.

Nagoda wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 2:02 pmWhere did you get the information that MUTO Prime’s Sonic scream was an Electro Magnetic Pressure Wave. Nowhere does it state such information. Every source I checked always say it uses Sonic vibrations to make a concussive blast, tuned to the harmonic frequency to shatter Godzilla’s spines and create seismic instability. As for Gyaos’s Sonic Ray? It probably won’t have the same affect here as unlike Prime, it’s not specifically tuned to shatter Godzilla’s spines, but it will annoy him if they hit the right spots.
Muto Prime's body electrifies before he fires the blast. Add to the fact that Mutos use emp, this is obviously an evolved version of that. However, you got me on it having sonic power components. But feat wise it performed better than the sonic cutter anyway.
Nagoda wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 2:02 pmI’d probably give this one to Team Gamera with heavy casualties. Especially since this is Pre-Supercharged Godzilla, meaning he’s going to be taking a couple seconds to charge up his beams, and they won’t be anywhere near as powerful as the one we see him use to push Ghidorah back in the Boston fight. Legion will be doing the most damage here, Iris I’m not so sure about unless he’s in the sky firing off beams, but he does have really long tendrils to use. The Gyaos only serve as distractions, but their aerial mobility should make them good distractions.
The Gyaos are really the only worth while opponents here. They're fast, agile, dodge attacks, and fire back. Godzilla is gonna hit and thus kill them eventually, but they'll be a nuisance to him.

Legion just isn't gonna do well, all she did against Gamera for minutes on end was push on him. The first thing Godzilla did when she made contact with the Female Muto was bite into her throat. It's blatantly obvous that he's gonna make short work of her in melee.

Iris, again does nothing unless he's directly engaged. Unlike Gamera, Godzilla is gonna maul him immediately. Godzilla take this with moderate difficulty, which almost exclusively comes from the Gyaos.

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Zasraniec
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Re: LPG vs Team Gamera Villains

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Gonna try this without the quote function so bear with me.

"If Legion is even put into the position where the red whips can come out than she'd already be dead. Gamera, for some reason just stood there when she fell over and layed unconscious. Godzilla wouldn't do that, he's gonna stomp her face into a pulp if she just feel over in front of him and layed there, while still being very much alive.

Also, the whips failed the get past Gamera's skull. It's likely that they won't penetrate everything."

So what makes you think that Godzilla can kill Legion through melee combat? Given what we have seen from both the minions and the queen Legion they are very different in biology and seem pretty durable. Now I don't think this makes Legion more durable than Godzilla but I do think it gives her a run for his money.

"Again, Godzilla's scales are much more durable than Gamera's. He's not gonna take any damage from a horn that had to strike multiple times to achieve any penetration on a much less durable foe.

That and her legs get put to use after a lengthy shoving match with Gamera. Godzilla is gonna go for her throat from the start. She'll be dead long before she can even think to use her legs. Even if she fought out of character and put them to use, so what? She needed plenty of leverage for them to stab Gamera and a clear shot. Leverage that Godzilla isn't gonna give her, nor is he gonna be just standing there. And again, there's the durability difference, there not going into Godzilla nearly as well as they did Gamera. And they did nothing to even suggest that they could gut him, and she never even tries to gut foes with them.

Your description of her has her fighting massively out of character while boosting her stats beyond what they canonically are."

Yes I think it is safe to say Godzilla is more durable than Gamera. To be frank I think you are having Godzilla fight uncanonically better. This is not a 1v1 match. Gyaos and Iris aren't going to just sit there. If they aren't going to do anything then they might as well not be in this fight. Godzilla handled the female MUTO fine 1v1 but that's just what is was. 1v1. Not only that Legion is easily the most durable on her team. I think she can hold her own in terms of durability even if Godzilla outclasses her in melee. What's he doing to do, tear out her non existent throat? Gut her? Oh yeah she has gas for blood and seems to lack most conventional organs. She's nothing like the MUTOs or anything Godzilla fought. That doesn't mean she is better in every way of course but I think you are selling her a bit short by using standards of Earth creatures like the MUTOs.

"That was one burst of speed compared to consistently slow movements throughout the movie. It's unlikely that she would live long enough here to even put that to use. Especially since Godzilla is gonna be grabbing and mauling her, not striking."

I guess this part it is pretty much all debate. For me I saw it as Legion toying with Gamera most of the time. Only really showing real initiative to do harm when called for. That's just the feel I was getting since she fought Gamera pretty differently while delaying him as opposed to the second time. I also don't think Legion is going to be melee fodder. In terms of matching blows with Godzilla to be exact. I mean tanking the blows. Especially since this is a team match. Godzilla only needs to be distracted for a few seconds for Gyaos or Iris to cook up something. Seconds matter here. I really don't think Godzilla can kill or incapacitate Legion in melee. At least not quickly enough to eliminate her with assistance from her teammates at the very least.

"If Legion is even put into the position where the red whips can come out than she'd already be dead. Gamera, for some reason just stood there when she fell over and layed unconscious. Godzilla wouldn't do that, he's gonna stomp her face into a pulp if she just feel over in front of him and layed there, while still being very much alive.

Also, the whips failed the get past Gamera's skull. It's likely that they won't penetrate everything."

I already mentioned why I think Godzilla's melee won't be as lethal against Legion, especially in this scenario so I wanna focus on the whips. Yeah Godzilla can probably tank the whips a bit longer than Gamera. However he got exhausted after his MUTO fight and collapsed for hours. So while I don't think they will really be fatal they don't need to be. Legion definitely seemed to be sadistic with her whips too. First brandishing them before actually using them against Gamera. I think she is smart enough to pick up that Godzilla is more durable and use them more seriously. Again I don't think they are fatal for Godzilla if used for the time they were against Gamera. However if they are used for much longer combined with Iris and Gyaos assisting then things are different. They were able to pierce Gamera's shell which rival's Godzilla's hide in durability. Not quite there I think but close. So they will at the very least slow down Godzilla and be painful. After all the MUTOs were able to pierce his hide with no problem. I am betting those whips are more vicious than MUTO arms.

"She never burrows mid combat. Even if she tried an ambush, her legs only knocked Gamera out of the air because he ran right into them. Godzilla wouldn't just let them strike him. He's either gonna grab and maul one or just yank her out of the ground."

Another point where there isn't much to go on other than headcanon. I again think it is because of Legion's personality. Why try to ambush your opponent when you are winning the fight and seem to be enjoying the winning? She was able to burrow on fairly short notice when the flower was about to detonate so I wouldn't rule it out. Since this was a team fight with Godzilla outnumbered I never really factored Legion burrowing anyway and just assumed she would behave exactly as if she were fighting Gamera for fairness sake. I think you are overselling Godzilla's digging ability. I don't think he is gonna drill through the ground in seconds and yank a kaiju out of the ground. I'd be more curious if she would use burrowing against an opponent that ambushes like Kong or something. I think yes but I guess we'll never know for sure.

"Attempting to pin Godzilla is by and far one of the worst things Legion can attempt. There's literally no way that could end well for her.

Just leaning up would be a bad idea. Godzilla is quick to bulldoze opponents, and with her in that position he could do so easily. Just imaging how bad it would be if Legion found her self laying on her back, she;d be easy prey for him from there.

Even if he, for some reason doesn't introduce her face to the ground the second she leans up, actually pinning him would be damn near impossible for her. Godzilla is much more stable than Gamera, with his thick tail as a counter balance. Trying to fall on him isn't putting him on his back. She'll just be leaning her body on his face, which would be a monumentally dumb idea.

Hell, he could just bend over. Doing so would subject Legion to the Kaiju equivalent of flopping on to knives.

Even if, against all odds she some how pins him. Godzilla doesn't knock her over before she can fall on him and his stability doesn't come into play, so what? Legendary Godzilla is quick the go for his atomic breath when he's pinned on his back, like damn near instantly. Legion's viable to lose her face trying that.

So there is literally no way that attempting to pin Godzilla can go well for her. Not that she would live long enough to try it, as Godzilla is gonna maul her the second he gets his claws on her."

I don't disagree with much here. In a 1v1 fight Godzilla would have the advantage the whole time in melee and would probably be the one pinning Legion rather than the opposite. Although if Godzilla is spending this much time wrestling Legion he will get attacked by the teammates and overwhelmed. The only thing I really don't think would happen is the atomic breath. Not only is it pretty weak at this stage in Godzilla's career you have to at least see it is nothing like the Mana Beam. If Legion could withstand seconds of that then Godzilla's beam won't do squat except probably irritate her or just leave himself open to teammate attacks. There isn't really anything Godzilla can do to either of Team Gamera that doesn't leave him open from the others. Strong melee but weak beam and durability since this is 2014 Godzilla. I think only the Gyaos could get killed my melee. Iris and Legion will be at a disadvantage in melee but I don't think they are going to just die in seconds like you think. The Gyaos also like to fly around so I don't think they will hold still and let Godzilla maul them.

"I never even considered her shield arms in this anyway. But now that you mention it, he could if he wanted to. He's far faster and more ferocious than Gamera is in melee and his scales are too tough for her horn to be a threat. So she really can't stop him from doing so."

If you ask me I think Legion's piercing arms would be more deadly than the MUTOs that pierced Godzilla and drew blood. I say this because the MUTOs arms don't look too imposing and they would use gravity to make the blow crush Godzilla more. Something I don't think Legion needs to do because she didn't have to with Gamera's shell.

"The Gyaos are really the only worth while opponents here. They're fast, agile, dodge attacks, and fire back. Godzilla is gonna hit and thus kill them eventually, but they'll be a nuisance to him.

Legion just isn't gonna do well, all she did against Gamera for minutes on end was push on him. The first thing Godzilla did when she made contact with the Female Muto was bite into her throat. It's blatantly obvous that he's gonna make short work of her in melee.

Iris, again does nothing unless he's directly engaged. Unlike Gamera, Godzilla is gonna maul him immediately. Godzilla take this with moderate difficulty, which almost exclusively comes from the Gyaos."

The Gyaos are the only opponent I think Godzilla has somewhat of a chance to take. I think they might get cocky and charge Godzilla at some point assuming Godzilla doesn't die by then. Then Godzilla would probably give them a similar treatment to the male MUTO. Although I might be giving Godzilla to much credit because he is going to be against four total opponents. His stunt with the male MUTO required time to set up and perform. Time I don't think he has. If the female MUTO was fighting at that moment there's no way he'd be able to perform his fatality. If Iris isn't going to do anything than I doubt the OP would have bothered adding him. Besides Monsterverse Godzilla is very aggressive. How do you know he won't just attack Iris anyway? If you think he is aggressive enough to yank Legion out from underground then he surely is going to at least provoke Iris and see him as some kind of threat to nature. Even if 4 kaiju weren't wailing on Godzilla at the same time it will take more than biting Legion's throat to take her down. Especially since she seems to lack a throat as we know it.

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