King Kong Tribute Thread (THE REAL KING KONG!)

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The Octopus
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Re: King Kong Tribute Thread (THE REAL KING KONG!)

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Well technically it would be....

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Re: King Kong Tribute Thread (THE REAL KING KONG!)

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So, wait, we're saying that the original King Kong is not sympathetic? The movie may not go out of its way to drown us in maudlin sentimentality, but it doesn't need to; the characterization of Kong comes through in the animation.
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Re: King Kong Tribute Thread (THE REAL KING KONG!)

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eabaker wrote: Sat Feb 20, 2021 9:40 amThe movie may not go out of its way to drown us in maudlin sentimentality
Is that a shot at PJ's remake?
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Re: King Kong Tribute Thread (THE REAL KING KONG!)

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The Octopus wrote: Sat Feb 20, 2021 9:44 am
eabaker wrote: Sat Feb 20, 2021 9:40 amThe movie may not go out of its way to drown us in maudlin sentimentality
Is that a shot at PJ's remake?
You may decide that for yourself. If I'd wanted to take any explicit shots, I would have.
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Re: King Kong Tribute Thread (THE REAL KING KONG!)

Post by tbeasley »

As the wise Norm Macdonald once said to Letterman - "If something is true, then it is not sentimental. And I say in truth, 'I love you.'" I think that's what Jackson is saying to Kong in his film. Anyway...

I might be watching The Mighty Kong (1998) in the coming days, so god help me.
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Re: King Kong Tribute Thread (THE REAL KING KONG!)

Post by Terasawa »

Even if you ignore the original film, doesn't Denham, in Son of Kong, say something to the effect of, "I always felt sorry for Kong?"
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Re: King Kong Tribute Thread (THE REAL KING KONG!)

Post by Major sssspielberg! »

Kong's story was tragic from jump street. Nothing against Pete Jackson's Kong (which I rewatched the other day and enjoyed more than I ever have) but watching the original always gave me a sense of empathy for Kong. He's dragged out of his kingdom on the island, strung up in chains as a glorified sideshow, and dies in a blaze of glory because he just can't fit into the world of man.
So while Pete played up the "Kong is a noble feeling creature" angle by giving him more of a relationship with Ann, the original still managed to give you those feelings while keeping Kong as more of an animal. If anything it hurts more when he dies because the characters don't *really* see what we see in Kong.
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Re: King Kong Tribute Thread (THE REAL KING KONG!)

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Yeah no, the original Kong, which I recently gave a watch, did not resonate with me much. Kong seemed to be a genuine monster, seeking out people to kill, going out of his way to hold Ann hostage against her will the entire film, etc.

05 Kong did something no monster film has managed to do, which was create a perfectly relatable situation, regardless if you're the beauty or the beast, you could understand all of their decisions.
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Re: King Kong Tribute Thread (THE REAL KING KONG!)

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The original Kong is an animal. You're supposed to sympathize with him the same way you would any naturally dangerous animal that would meet the same fate, i.e. captured & relocated, later breaking free and killing innocent persons before meeting an unfortunate but necessary death.

I'm surprised you weren't receptive to this, Navs, after your recent-ish posts about animals.

The '76 and '05 remakes more specifically humanize Kong, but that doesn't mean the original creature isn't supposed to receive the audience's sympathy (even when the film's characters are too caught up in the horror of their situation to do so themselves).
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Re: King Kong Tribute Thread (THE REAL KING KONG!)

Post by Cookson »

76 Kong is severely underrated in my opinion. Great score as well.
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Re: King Kong Tribute Thread (THE REAL KING KONG!)

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Terasawa wrote: Sat Feb 20, 2021 7:45 pm The original Kong is an animal. You're supposed to sympathize with him the same way you would any naturally dangerous animal that would meet the same fate, i.e. captured & relocated, later breaking free and killing innocent persons before meeting an unfortunate but necessary death.

I'm surprised you weren't receptive to this, Navs, after your recent-ish posts about animals.

The '76 and '05 remakes more specifically humanize Kong, but that doesn't mean the original creature isn't supposed to receive the audience's sympathy (even when the film's characters are too caught up in the horror of their situation to do so themselves).
I have to disagree with the first part, in the original Kong film, Kong goes out of his way to brutally slaughter the village of worshippers. Stepping on their heads with ill intent, chewing people and spitting them out. Basically what it seemed like to me was, he was going out of his way to cause vengeful, hate-filled destruction, which isn't what a natural animal would do.

But considering the time period this film was created in, I can understand why they wouldn't have much to go off of behavior-wise with apes, so they filled in the gaps. I still enjoy the film for what it is.

2005 Kong was essentially a Silverback Gorilla in every sense, now of course he was much more intelligent than what we see from modern apes, but he showed kindness, calmness, compassion, and curiosity (unless you poke him with guns). Which are features that most real gorillas share with one another (and even other species).

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AK Siwach wrote: Sat Feb 20, 2021 8:45 pm My interpretation is that the original Kong was a lot less sympathetic and nobody really seemed to care that he died compared to the later versions. Those Kongs showed Kong's more empathetic side so I agree they humanized him in a way which as I said about Kong 76 seems to have become part of the character that the 1933 version simply lacked. We saw Kong protect Ann in 1933 but that is really all the "good" we see of him. He doesn't seem to connect and show emotion like he does in the later entries. Some of the main characters are also clearly distraught at his death unlike the original where it seems like they will just move on emotionlessly.
This (although some real gorillas do show good moral compasses)
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Re: King Kong Tribute Thread (THE REAL KING KONG!)

Post by daveblackeye15 »

I always felt bad for Kong near that last shot before he dies. Like with the next pass he finally can't hang on but he just sort of looks off sadly and the music is pretty sad too. Even as a kid I kind of felt bad for him. I mean I felt bad for the natives too.
Not really a fan of of 76 Kong nor Dawn but it did try to do a good thing to develop their connection a little more.
But Jackson's Kong had the best Anne and Kong dynamic easily.

I like how even though the first film was at the most racist time I felt like the natives were the best humanized in that one. Mom rushes out to save baby, brave men trying to fend off Kong then dying. 76 Kong kind of kept them pretty foreign and in Jackson's Kong they're more like Orcs than anything.

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Re: King Kong Tribute Thread (THE REAL KING KONG!)

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AK Siwach wrote: Sat Feb 20, 2021 8:45 pm There a source for this? You could just as much say that the original Godzilla was just an animal worthy of sympathy too. An unnaturally tough animal that was minding his own business until those pesky nuclear tests woke him up. In other words, unless the director or writer blatantly said so then that is certainly up for debate and we are left to draw our own conclusions.
I thought that's always been a standard interpretation of the original Godzilla, even in the film itself. That he was just a strangely innocent and tragic creature that became something never meant to be due to human arrogance. He lashes out at humanity because he recognizes that we are responsible for his suffering.
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Re: King Kong Tribute Thread (THE REAL KING KONG!)

Post by Major sssspielberg! »

Not everyone needs 45 minutes of vaudeville, nose stroking, longing gazes and butt-sliding to empathize with an animal that was drug into a dirty city to be shot off the top of a skyscraper because of skeezy capitalism but, hey, if you don't see it you don't see it.
daveblackeye15 wrote: Sat Feb 20, 2021 10:47 pm I like how even though the first film was at the most racist time I felt like the natives were the best humanized in that one. Mom rushes out to save baby, brave men trying to fend off Kong then dying. 76 Kong kind of kept them pretty foreign and in Jackson's Kong they're more like Orcs than anything.
It's still really uncomfortable the amount of blackface in that movie though. At least you can say "it's the times" in 33 I guess...
'05's blackface makes me more uncomfortable with at least a few natives being white actors in sophisticated prosthetics instead of shoe polish. Couple that with the blackface "throwback" when Kong is revealed on stage... you'd think Peter Jackson would have known that wasn't going to age very well.
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Re: King Kong Tribute Thread (THE REAL KING KONG!)

Post by Al Diplodocus »

Yeah, I always did dislike the savage natives in most Kong movies, which are loaded and rooted in horrid colonial ideology. Its why I prefer the Iwi in Skull Island: more nuance to them.

One idea I had for a Kong story was that of its main female character, its Ann, being an evil, racist woman who commits a terrible crime against the natives, like stealing something from them or simply says the most horrible things to one of them. That way, her sacrifice to Kong is a ounitive one she more or less had coming.

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Re: King Kong Tribute Thread (THE REAL KING KONG!)

Post by omgitsgodzilla »

Regardless of what's actually expressed in the text of the film, the original Kong being a sympathetic character wasn't lost on the filmmakers. I remember reading someplace about Cooper having said to one of his collaborators something along the lines of "The more brutal he is, the more they'll cry at the end."

Supposedly, the death of the original Godzilla had the same effect on the cast and crew when they first saw the finished film.
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Re: King Kong Tribute Thread (THE REAL KING KONG!)

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No, not everyone needs 45 minutes of nose stroking, but it definitely benefits Kong the animal more so than without. Otherwise we risk getting a vengeful hate-filled monster on a rampage and dies.
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Re: King Kong Tribute Thread (THE REAL KING KONG!)

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omgitsgodzilla wrote: Sun Feb 21, 2021 11:58 am Supposedly, the death of the original Godzilla had the same effect on the cast and crew when they first saw the finished film.
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Re: King Kong Tribute Thread (THE REAL KING KONG!)

Post by Major sssspielberg! »

_JNavs_ wrote: Sun Feb 21, 2021 12:20 pm No, not everyone needs 45 minutes of nose stroking, but it definitely benefits Kong the animal more so than without. Otherwise we risk getting a vengeful hate-filled monster on a rampage and dies.
For some reason it's funny to me that you zeroed in on the nose stroking :lol: what, is the butt-slliding not good enough for you?!?
In all seriousness though, I'm not sure I agree completely. I think the Ann/Kong scenes got a little too close to (human) anthropomorphization compared to '33. That's not to say I don't think Andy Serkis didn't create a Kong that was believable as a gorilla mind you. Just that it started venturing into Gamera/Toshio (or Kennnyyyyy!) territory with how heavy it was laid on by the end there.
That's just my opinion though, not knockin' you at all bud.
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Re: King Kong Tribute Thread (THE REAL KING KONG!)

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omgitsgodzilla wrote: Sun Feb 21, 2021 11:58 am Regardless of what's actually expressed in the text of the film, the original Kong being a sympathetic character wasn't lost on the filmmakers. I remember reading someplace about Cooper having said to one of his collaborators something along the lines of "The more brutal he is, the more they'll cry at the end."
That's right. He said that to O'Brien. O'Bie wanted Kong to be more human-like in appearance and to act more human, but Cooper wanted him to be vicious and scary and brutal. When O'Bie said it would be impossible for audiences to feel sympathy for such a character, than Cooper responded with the quote you mentioned.

You have to remember that one of the big influences behind Kong Kong was Douglas Burden and the Komodo Dragons. When Burden captured a couple of Dragons and sold them to a zoo, they attracted huge crowds. When they died shortly thereafter because of infections it touched Cooper. He thought it was sad that these "modern day dinosaurs" could survive in a harsh jungle on an island but couldn't survive in the modern world of man.
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