General Gamera Thread

[Vakanai]

Won't lie - I never cared for MST3K. If I want to see a movie, I'll see a movie, not people/robots riffing on the movie.

[SoggyNoodles2016]

Won't lie - I never cared for MST3K. If I want to see a movie, I'll see a movie, not people/robots riffing on the movie.

You....think the point of MST3K is to WATCH the movie?

[Major sssspielberg!]

Won't lie - I never cared for MST3K. If I want to see a movie, I'll see a movie, not people/robots riffing on the movie.

You....think the point of MST3K is to WATCH the movie?

Gamera MST stays classic. I'm with Vakanai more often than not these days, in that I'd rather watch a movie and judge it myself than watch it riffed, but the Gamera episodes will always hit home. (Pod People and Space Mutiny also!)

[JAGzilla]

Agreed with Vakanai. It depends on the movie, though. I watched some awful '70s Bigfoot movie on MST3K a few months ago, and the riffing was all that made it watchable.

[Vakanai]

Won't lie - I never cared for MST3K. If I want to see a movie, I'll see a movie, not people/robots riffing on the movie.

You....think the point of MST3K is to WATCH the movie?

I don't know why else I'd watch anything.

Added in 1 minute 32 seconds:
(I mean, no judgement for those who like MST3K, but I tried to watch it once and kept wishing they'd just shut up, so...)

[SoggyNoodles2016]

The point of MST3K is the comedy of seeing them mock a either bad but fun or just terrible movie.

You should not be genuinely trying to watch the film unless you're trying to laugh at it with them.

If you actually want to watch the film, buy a copy of it, don't watch the MST3K.


I can understand not liking the comedy but saying you'd want the MST3K robots to shut up so you can watch the movie is like getting mad you have to put together a puzzle to see what the picture is. It's quite literally the point of the whole endeavor

[edgaguirus]

Agreed with Vakanai. It depends on the movie, though. I watched some awful '70s Bigfoot movie on MST3K a few months ago, and the riffing was all that made it watchable.

That was probably Boggy Creek 2. Some of what they show would be a slog to get through without the jokes, and some of the puns and jabs are comic gold.

I wouldn't want to see GSM on MST3K. The movie is too easy to riff on.

[JAGzilla]

^ Yeah, it was Boggy Creek 2.

The point of MST3K is the comedy of seeing them mock a either bad but fun or just terrible movie.

You should not be genuinely trying to watch the film unless you're trying to laugh at it with them.

If you actually want to watch the film, buy a copy of it, don't watch the MST3K.


I can understand not liking the comedy but saying you'd want the MST3K robots to shut up so you can watch the movie is like getting mad you have to put together a puzzle to see what the picture is. It's quite literally the point of the whole endeavor

I think what Vakanai is saying is he doesn't watch MST3K. He watched it once, decided he preferred just watching the movies without the robots' commentary, and that was that. It's pretty much my take, too. I understand what MST3K is trying to do, but it just doesn't appeal to me much.

You say the point of the show is not to watch the movies, but that's pretty well unavoidable. The movie plays the whole time, filling up 90% of the screen. It's not like you just tune it out. It's there, and you're watching it, just with the comedy over top of it. So if I'm going to watch the movie, I'd rather just... watch the movie. Again, with some exceptions; MST3K legitimately is funny.

[Vakanai]

^ Yeah, it was Boggy Creek 2.

The point of MST3K is the comedy of seeing them mock a either bad but fun or just terrible movie.

You should not be genuinely trying to watch the film unless you're trying to laugh at it with them.

If you actually want to watch the film, buy a copy of it, don't watch the MST3K.


I can understand not liking the comedy but saying you'd want the MST3K robots to shut up so you can watch the movie is like getting mad you have to put together a puzzle to see what the picture is. It's quite literally the point of the whole endeavor

I think what Vakanai is saying is he doesn't watch MST3K. He watched it once, decided he preferred just watching the movies without the robots' commentary, and that was that. It's pretty much my take, too. I understand what MST3K is trying to do, but it just doesn't appeal to me much.

You say the point of the show is not to watch the movies, but that's pretty well unavoidable. The movie plays the whole time, filling up 90% of the screen. It's not like you just tune it out. It's there, and you're watching it, just with the comedy over top of it. So if I'm going to watch the movie, I'd rather just... watch the movie. Again, with some exceptions; MST3K legitimately is funny.

Pretty much this yes. I watched some of it once, and decided it wasn't really the sort of thing for me. I mean I like horror host stuff like Svengoolie and Elvira, but the riffing during a movie's just not something I'm interested in trying to watch again.

[SoggyNoodles2016]

Ah, then I apologize. I thought you were saying you watched MST3K to see the movies featured. The comedy not being your cup of tea is totally fine

[eabaker]

Now that that's been cleared up, I will express my (insignificant) objection to MST3K, which is that it is watched by people who haven't seen the movies, and they often form opinions of the movies based on - as has been pointed out here - not really watching the movies. How many people in America today have an opinion about the Gamera movies based on only having seen them on MST3K?

[Jermobooka]

Now that that's been cleared up, I will express my (insignificant) objection to MST3K, which is that it is watched by people who haven't seen the movies, and they often form opinions of the movies based on - as has been pointed out here - not really watching the movies. How many people in America today have an opinion about the Gamera movies based on only having seen them on MST3K?

How many people have an opinion about a lot of movies based only on having seen them in a Cinema Sins video? It’s not exclusive to MST3K

[eabaker]

Now that that's been cleared up, I will express my (insignificant) objection to MST3K, which is that it is watched by people who haven't seen the movies, and they often form opinions of the movies based on - as has been pointed out here - not really watching the movies. How many people in America today have an opinion about the Gamera movies based on only having seen them on MST3K?

How many people have an opinion about a lot of movies based only on having seen them in a Cinema Sins video? It’s not exclusive to MST3K

No, and I object a lot more strongly to CinemaSins, since they couch themselves as semi-legitimate film criticism, which MST3K certainly never has.

[Terasawa]

Now that that's been cleared up, I will express my (insignificant) objection to MST3K, which is that it is watched by people who haven't seen the movies, and they often form opinions of the movies based on - as has been pointed out here - not really watching the movies. How many people in America today have an opinion about the Gamera movies based on only having seen them on MST3K?

I'm probably about as big an MST3K fan as you'll meet but I agree.

If you guys wanna watch the MST3K effect in real time, go take note of Gamera vs. Jiger's IMDb score and its number of votes. The rating will plummet and the votes will significantly rise after the MST episode is released.

[Kaltes-Herzeleid]

It genuinely annoys me how associated MST3K is with Gamera in the west. Ugh. I genuinely don't get the appeal of them.

Now that that's been cleared up, I will express my (insignificant) objection to MST3K, which is that it is watched by people who haven't seen the movies, and they often form opinions of the movies based on - as has been pointed out here - not really watching the movies. How many people in America today have an opinion about the Gamera movies based on only having seen them on MST3K?

^^^^
Wholeheartedly agree with this. I feel like most of the complaints I hear about Showa Gamera, and really kaiju/toku as a whole, is owed to people just going with the MST3K perspective and just simply being ignorant. They think it's bad because they were told it's bad instead of forming their own opinion. And really, I think the attitude they popularized when it comes to watching movies has slowly helped erode any deeper or more earnest enjoyment of movies.

I think kaiju fans should revile MST3K, personally.

[Terasawa]

I think kaiju fans should revile MST3K, personally.

I disagree. These movies have survived MST3K. Arrow released a badass box set of all the Gamera films and gave them a more respectful treatment than Criterion could for the Godzilla films... and it sold out the day it was released. Being on MST3K also didn't really do any damage to Godzilla vs. Megalon or Sea Monster. In the case of the former, the damage had already been done in America long before MST laughed at it.

I think the worst thing MST3K did was just expose these movies to people who wouldn't have sought them out in the first place, much less enjoy them had they seen them. But I don't think there are too many of those people. MST has devoted followers but their numbers are relatively small. And I think, of those fans, the ones who legitimately enjoy the movies MST uses (even if only in some small way) vastly outnumber those who think they're all trash.

[Godzilla21]

I don't think its fair to claim any negative opinion of Gamera is based entirely on MST3K and they are ignorant. I think we sometimes need to step outside the bubble and really look at the Gamera films objectively as kid's movies with some pretty out there content. I had my wife watch a few with me and she refused to watch more than 2 movies (and she's never heard of MST3K) because it just didn't appeal to her. For general audience types Showa Gamera might be a tough sell.

I am personally a big fan of MST3K and the program introduced me to a ton of shows that I'd otherwise have never heard of. Plus their commentary on Gamera vs Guiron is legitimately funny and had me laughing at spots. I think most fans are able to separate the aspect of being able to have fun with these films while also acknowledging there is some silliness and there is nothing wrong with laughing sometimes.

[JAGzilla]

Laughing at (or often with) the silliness is a huge part of the appeal of this genre, for me.

[LSD Jellyfish]

I agree with Eabaker, that there's no issues with MST3K as long as someone realizes that that version isn't the "original" way to view it and don't take it so seriously. I think that in specific cases it's also a great way to learn about some older cult movies, especially in the era it originally came out in. This might sound really strange, but I have possibly seen Manos the Hands of Fate 50+ times, because I used to watch the MST3K of it to go to sleep at night when I was in high school.

I'd like to mention though that sans Gamera, Gamera vs Baragon and parts of Gamera vs. Gyaos, the Show Gamera series is so over the top and probably really self-aware about how ridiculous it is. I think the movies want you to laugh at it when Gamera does a gym vault in Gamera vs. Guiron or when Gamera plays the xylophone with Zigra in Gamera vs. Zigra. Gamera conceptually is also way stranger than Godzilla, and even in the first film there seems to be some self-awareness.

[Major sssspielberg!]

I'd like to mention though that sans Gamera, Gamera vs Baragon and parts of Gamera vs. Gyaos, the Show Gamera series is so over the top and probably really self-aware about how ridiculous it is. I think the movies want you to laugh at it when Gamera does a gym vault in Gamera vs. Guiron or when Gamera plays the xylophone with Zigra in Gamera vs. Zigra. Gamera conceptually is also way stranger than Godzilla, and even in the first film there seems to be some self-awareness.

Preach!
Being able to watch the Showa Gamera in it's proper aspect ratio and original language has been a godsend.