The Official Star Wars Saga Thread

[Spuro]

TFA can still.cone over my house and hang out. I depise TLJ and ROS however.

Despise?

That's fucking harsh...

I only really despise the last one.

TFA was disappointing and bland. TLJ was an improvement, but wasn’t enough to make up for TFA for me personally. Then TROS came along… whew boy, can’t remember the last time I had a theater experience that miserable. I was bitching about it for months.

[JAGzilla]

TFA and TLJ are both flawed but enjoyable; I was in the camp that liked TLJ's subversion. TROS was appalling. I knew that was coming so I wasn't disappointed, but the scale of it was still breathtaking. I don't want to say it retroactively hurts TFA and TLJ, but it does. I now have to watch those in the knowledge that there's no plan whatsoever and their stories are building up to nothing. Their flaws become harder to overlook in that context.

[Voyager]

Not gonna lie, I actually prefer TROS over TLJ. I find one so bad it's funny, and I find the other disappointing and kind of sad.

[Chrispy_G]

Not gonna lie, I actually prefer TROS over TLJ. I find one so bad it's funny, and I find the other disappointing and kind of sad.

TLJ is the one that broke the franchise, it is the one that frankly, disgusted my inner fan. By TROS I was expecting a total mess and it was. My buddy said it best, "This one didn't hurt, because I didn't care"

[Spuro]

TFA and TLJ are both flawed but enjoyable; I was in the camp that liked TLJ's subversion. TROS was appalling. I knew that was coming so I wasn't disappointed, but the scale of it was still breathtaking. I don't want to say it retroactively hurts TFA and TLJ, but it does. I now have to watch those in the knowledge that there's no plan whatsoever and their stories are building up to nothing. Their flaws become harder to overlook in that context.

Yeah, I have to agree with this. When TFA came out I was disappointed by the weak worldbuilding and how safe things were played, but it was only ever that: disappointment. When TLJ came out I thought it was a huge improvement because it addressed one of my big problems with the previous film, and that was that it took creative risks. Sure I didn't always agree with the choices the film took, but I preferred it to the safe-but-stale retread that was TFA.

But after the release of TROS, my opinions of both those films has dropped considerably. My mindset isn't like eabaker's; I can't judge these films independent of one another because I naturally approach them as one part of a broader storyline. And TROS just... shattered that storyline and any potential it may have still had. I hated TROS so much that I nowadays just avoid acknowledging TLJ and TFA by extension, whereas before I could accept their existence even if I wasn't the biggest fan of them.

[miguelnuva]

The ST felt loke a dick measuring contest between Rian and JJ with then chosing to tell what they wanted in little regard ti the other director.

[miguelnuva]

So as a guy who has only seen the 97 versions and onward can someone tell me why the Special editions are so hated other than Han shot first which I agree George Lucas shouldn't have changed.

[NSZ]

So as a guy who has only seen the 97 versions and onward can someone tell me why the Special editions are so hated other than Han shot first which I agree George Lucas shouldn't have changed.

The added Jabba scene in ANH is repetitive as it's just a retread of Han & Greedo's conversation. Also the CGI for Jabba isn't all that good (miles better than what it was when it was put into theaters, tho).

In RotJ, you have the Jedi Rocks number (itself terrible) throwing more badly composited CGI in your face, as well as the unnecessary alterations to the Sarlacc.

Basically, a lot of the added CG effects just aren't good.

Also, apparently the color grading got fucked up? Not really an expert there.

[Spuro]

So as a guy who has only seen the 97 versions and onward can someone tell me why the Special editions are so hated other than Han shot first which I agree George Lucas shouldn't have changed.

The added Jabba scene in ANH is repetitive as it's just a retread of Han & Greedo's conversation. Also the CGI for Jabba isn't all that good (miles better than what it was when it was put into theaters, tho).

In RotJ, you have the Jedi Rocks number (itself terrible) throwing more badly composited CGI in your face, as well as the unnecessary alterations to the Sarlacc.

Basically, a lot of the added CG effects just aren't good.

Also, apparently the color grading got fucked up? Not really an expert there.

They also gave the sarlaac a dumb beak.

But really the MAIN problem with the special editions, bigger than anything else listed here, is that they've essentially replaced the original versions, which aren't available on Blu-Ray and only have a single, poorly transferred DVD release.

[JAGzilla]

That awful Jabba scene in ANH is the big problem for me. It's so poorly done and glaringly out of place. Greedo shooting first is stupid, too.

As for more recent edits, Vader shouts "Noooo! Noooo!" while killing Palpatine. That's atrocious. Completely ruins one of the greatest moments in the series.

[darthzilla99]

So as a guy who has only seen the 97 versions and onward can someone tell me why the Special editions are so hated other than Han shot first which I agree George Lucas shouldn't have changed.

Boba's lines are better acted in original Empire. While I have no problem replacing the voice over with Temuera Morrison himself for continuity sake, his version of Boba's lines sound more submissive and monotone while Jason Wingreen sounds more defiant to Vader in his voice tone. Here is a video showing Jason's voice. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a897FGgDJy8

I will admit it's a case by case for me. Some of the cgi scenes are horribly dated, Han shoting first being changed is bad, and the Boba's lines are not excuted well (I would even be open to another re-voice over with Temuera Morrison to sound more like his mandalorian/Book of Boba Fett style voice). But I like the shockwave added for the deathstar explosion, I don't mind the Jabba scene in ANH, remastered scenes of the Palpatine in Empire can stay, the CGI rebel squadron in ANH can stay, and the ending ROTJ song defiantly feels more like a complete story song as well as seeing the various planets liberated and celebrating.

[eabaker]

But really the MAIN problem with the special editions, bigger than anything else listed here, is that they've essentially replaced the original versions, which aren't available on Blu-Ray and only have a single, poorly transferred DVD release.

Yup, exactly this, By and large I don't like the SE changes, but there are some exceptions. (My preferred versions are the laserdisc remasters which were done right before work started on the SEs.) However, locking up the original cuts - the ones that had such an enormous pop culture impact in the 70s and 80s, which did a lot to re-shape (not necessarily for the better, of course...) the way movies were made and marketed in Hollywood - is hiding away an important cultural touchstone and a major piece of cinema history.

[canofhumdingers]

So as a guy who has only seen the 97 versions and onward can someone tell me why the Special editions are so hated other than Han shot first which I agree George Lucas shouldn't have changed.

Here is a database of every known visual change to the original trilogy (this does not account for all the audio changes over the years, of which there are MANY).

https://starwarsviscomp.wordpress.com/

Here is a link to a WIRED Magazine article, written by the guy who made the database above, that does a good job summarizing the history of all the changes made over the years.

https://www.wired.com/story/put-origina ... sney-plus/

And, finally, if you’re truly interested in understanding why people like myself prefer the original cuts I would suggest putting in the minor effort required to find a good quality fan restoration and see the originals for yourself. Harmy’s Despecialized Edition is an easily accessible and very well done recreation of the original trilogy. Or if you’re a purist like me, a little extra effort will yield 4K77, 4K83 and (soon to be released) 4K80 which are 4K scans of original 35mm prints. They aren’t recreations, they ARE the original films. And if 4K files are an issue, 1080p downscales are readily available.

[Spuro]

So as a guy who has only seen the 97 versions and onward can someone tell me why the Special editions are so hated other than Han shot first which I agree George Lucas shouldn't have changed.

Here is a database of every known visual change to the original trilogy (this does not account for all the audio changes over the years, of which there are MANY).

https://starwarsviscomp.wordpress.com/

Here is a link to a WIRED Magazine article, written by the guy who made the database above, that does a good job summarizing the history of all the changes made over the years.

https://www.wired.com/story/put-origina ... sney-plus/

And, finally, if you’re truly interested in understanding why people like myself prefer the original cuts I would suggest putting in the minor effort required to find a good quality fan restoration and see the originals for yourself. Harmy’s Despecialized Edition is an easily accessible and very well done recreation of the original trilogy. Or if you’re a purist like me, a little extra effort will yield 4K77, 4K83 and (soon to be released) 4K80 which are 4K scans of original 35mm prints. They aren’t recreations, they ARE the original films. And if 4K files are an issue, 1080p downscales are readily available.

I wish I had the know-how to access the Despecialized editions...

[Spirit Ghidorah 2010]

So as a guy who has only seen the 97 versions and onward can someone tell me why the Special editions are so hated other than Han shot first which I agree George Lucas shouldn't have changed.

Here is a database of every known visual change to the original trilogy (this does not account for all the audio changes over the years, of which there are MANY).

https://starwarsviscomp.wordpress.com/

Here is a link to a WIRED Magazine article, written by the guy who made the database above, that does a good job summarizing the history of all the changes made over the years.

https://www.wired.com/story/put-origina ... sney-plus/

And, finally, if you’re truly interested in understanding why people like myself prefer the original cuts I would suggest putting in the minor effort required to find a good quality fan restoration and see the originals for yourself. Harmy’s Despecialized Edition is an easily accessible and very well done recreation of the original trilogy. Or if you’re a purist like me, a little extra effort will yield 4K77, 4K83 and (soon to be released) 4K80 which are 4K scans of original 35mm prints. They aren’t recreations, they ARE the original films. And if 4K files are an issue, 1080p downscales are readily available.

I wish I had the know-how to access the Despecialized editions...

I gotchu, comrade.

Just get yourself a .rar extractor to unpack the mkv files. (I personally use 7-Zip when pirating games and movies enhancing access to various forms of media, supporting the preservation and archiving of intellectual content, whilst maintaining agency over which ones receive my financial support.)

[canofhumdingers]

How can the OT be in 4K? The computer effects used on his Lucas Cut were made and edited on lower than 2K technology.

Well, the vast majority of the films are just that: film. That gets scanned in 4K and translate wonderfully. As for the effects, MOST films even today don’t have the digital effects rendered at 4K and they still usually fare just fine on 4K releases. You can display a lower resolution image in a higher resolution format. You just aren’t creating extra detail or sharpness in the image by converting it to the higher resolution.

[G1985]

I don't want to say it retroactively hurts TFA and TLJ, but it does. I now have to watch those in the knowledge that there's no plan whatsoever and their stories are building up to nothing. Their flaws become harder to overlook in that context.

This x10.

[mikelcho]

So as a guy who has only seen the 97 versions and onward can someone tell me why the Special editions are so hated other than Han shot first which I agree George Lucas shouldn't have changed.

The added Jabba scene in ANH is repetitive as it's just a retread of Han & Greedo's conversation. Also the CGI for Jabba isn't all that good (miles better than what it was when it was put into theaters, tho).

In RotJ, you have the Jedi Rocks number (itself terrible) throwing more badly composited CGI in your face, as well as the unnecessary alterations to the Sarlacc.

Basically, a lot of the added CG effects just aren't good.

Also, apparently the color grading got skreeonked up? Not really an expert there.

They also gave the sarlaac a dumb beak.

But really the MAIN problem with the special editions, bigger than anything else listed here, is that they've essentially replaced the original versions, which aren't available on Blu-Ray and only have a single, poorly transferred DVD release.

Are you talking about the DVD releases of the first six films that each have identical atrwork on the front cover sleeves and in which the first three films (Episodes 4, 5 and 6) have both the original versions and the 1997 Special Edition versions? I gave those to my brother Brian when they were first released and not only does he still have them, but they're all in excellent shape.

In fact, I think there are at least two major scenes still missing from at least two of those versions that I know of - the good-bye scene between Luke and Biggs on Tattooine in Episode 4: A New Hope (thus explaining Luke's later statement "Biggs is right, I'm never gonna get out of here!") and the scene where Wampas are attacking the Rebel base on Hoth from the inside at the same time the Imperial forces are attacking it from the outside in Episode 5: The Empire Strikes Back. I think these scenes are important and should be re-inserted.

[canofhumdingers]

The added Jabba scene in ANH is repetitive as it's just a retread of Han & Greedo's conversation. Also the CGI for Jabba isn't all that good (miles better than what it was when it was put into theaters, tho).

In RotJ, you have the Jedi Rocks number (itself terrible) throwing more badly composited CGI in your face, as well as the unnecessary alterations to the Sarlacc.

Basically, a lot of the added CG effects just aren't good.

Also, apparently the color grading got skreeonked up? Not really an expert there.

They also gave the sarlaac a dumb beak.

But really the MAIN problem with the special editions, bigger than anything else listed here, is that they've essentially replaced the original versions, which aren't available on Blu-Ray and only have a single, poorly transferred DVD release.

Are you talking about the DVD releases of the first six films that each have both the original versions and the 1997 Special Edition versions? I gave those to my brother Brian when they were first released and not only does he still have them, but they're all in excellent shape.

In fact, I think there are at least two major scenes still missing from at least two of those versions that I know of - the good-bye scene between Luke and Biggs on Tattooine in Episode 4: A New Hope (thus explaining Luke's later statement "Biggs is right, I'm never gonna get out of here!") and the scene where Wampas are attacking the Rebel base on Hoth from the inside at the same time the Imperial forces are attacking it from the outside in Episode 5: The Empire Strikes Back.

The 1997 versions have never been released on dvd or later media. The prequels have never been released with a second disc including original theatrical version (that was only the original three films; i.e. 4-6). The history of Star Wars home video releases and the many changes made with each new release is long and confusing. And this is not a slight at all against any user here but it really kinda pisses me off at how much mis-information and confusion there is over what version of Star Wars is what. Just reading this thread and all the questions/confusion demonstrates we have reached the point many like myself have feared was coming. Most people don’t know the difference. Many people aren’t even aware there is a difference and those who are aware very often have the facts wrong.

It’s become in some small way Orwell’s 1984 come to life. Obfuscate and confuse the truth and history long enough and people will not even know the “truth” they are told isn’t true at all.

Oh, and the two scenes you mention (Biggs on Tatooine and the wampas in Echo Base) are deleted scenes that have never been included in any version of Star Wars or The Empire Strikes Back.

[miguelnuva]

Speaking of theatrical versions of the Star Wars movies I remember someone going on a tirad a while back because George Lucas removed Natalie Portman's nipples from the aotc home release.