General movies/Hollywood thread.

For the discussion of movies and TV shows not distributed by Toho.
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Re: General movies/Hollywood thread.

Post by Spuro »

Vakanai wrote:
ROMG4 wrote:
Kaiju-King42 wrote:
If the movie exploits 11 year old girls, then so do the dance classes my sister attended for the past decade. I never saw anyone complain about them.
ImageImage

42....
eabaker wrote:The only strong compulsion I feel when walking away from TCM is the urge to blow a bunch of money on a wide angle macro lens.
I cannot tell if this is a TCM reference or a TCM reference
I don't get it, 42 what? What's up with the pics of dudes gearing up for laser vision?
The end of my username is 42, so I assume he's referring to me. I'm just as confused as you are about the images, though.
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Re: General movies/Hollywood thread.

Post by ROMG4 »

Kaiju-King42 wrote:
Vakanai wrote:
ROMG4 wrote: ImageImage

42....


I cannot tell if this is a TCM reference or a TCM reference
I don't get it, 42 what? What's up with the pics of dudes gearing up for laser vision?
The end of my username is 42, so I assume he's referring to me. I'm just as confused as you are about the images, though.
It's just a reaction meme, nothing more. Normally i'm all for an analytical and disengaged perspective, this is not one of those times and this movie will never be. Stop trying to give the movie the benefit of the doubt, it doesn't deserve it
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Re: General movies/Hollywood thread.

Post by Vakanai »

ROMG4 wrote:
Kaiju-King42 wrote:
Vakanai wrote: I don't get it, 42 what? What's up with the pics of dudes gearing up for laser vision?
The end of my username is 42, so I assume he's referring to me. I'm just as confused as you are about the images, though.
It's just a reaction meme, nothing more. Normally i'm all for an analytical and disengaged perspective, this is not one of those times and this movie will never be. Stop trying to give the movie the benefit of the doubt, it doesn't deserve it
Why? Why doesn't it deserve it? What about this movie makes it so undeserving?
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Re: General movies/Hollywood thread.

Post by KManX89 »

Vakanai wrote:
KManX89 wrote:
Vakanai wrote: Dear lord, what is wrong with people. This is just sad to me.
11-year-old girls can't consent to being exploited in film just like they can't consent to sex with adults. What's the big deal?
The belief that this is some pro-pedophile movie that's exploiting 11 year olds to begin with is the big deal.
Making prepubescent girls dress and act like whores and twerking while constantly zooming in on their crotch and ass sounds pretty exploitative to me. Pretty big difference between that and them taking dance classes.
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Re: General movies/Hollywood thread.

Post by Spuro »

KManX89 wrote:
Vakanai wrote:
KManX89 wrote:
11-year-old girls can't consent to being exploited in film just like they can't consent to sex with adults. What's the big deal?
The belief that this is some pro-pedophile movie that's exploiting 11 year olds to begin with is the big deal.
Making prepubescent girls dress and act like whores and twerking while constantly zooming in on their crotch and ass sounds pretty exploitative to me. Pretty big difference between that and them taking dance classes.
You clearly haven't seen the dresses and dance moves that those dance recitals have, then.

I think Cuties is, overall, morally superior to those dance classes, because at least the director was careful to educate the actors about what they were doing, why they were doing it, and why it was harmful.
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Re: General movies/Hollywood thread.

Post by eabaker »

Kaiju-King42 wrote:
KManX89 wrote:
Vakanai wrote: The belief that this is some pro-pedophile movie that's exploiting 11 year olds to begin with is the big deal.
Making prepubescent girls dress and act like whores and twerking while constantly zooming in on their crotch and ass sounds pretty exploitative to me. Pretty big difference between that and them taking dance classes.
You clearly haven't seen the dresses and dance moves that those dance recitals have, then.

I think Cuties is, overall, morally superior to those dance classes, because at least the director was careful to educate the actors about what they were doing, why they were doing it, and why it was harmful.
Ah, but you see, because Cuties is calling out the inappropriateness of it, it makes sickos feel self-conscious about their response to it, so they have to silence it. At a dance recital, they aren't confronted about their desires, so they don't feel compelled to oppose it.

Censors always have the dirtiest and most disgusting desires.
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Re: General movies/Hollywood thread.

Post by Vakanai »

KManX89 wrote:
Vakanai wrote:
KManX89 wrote:
11-year-old girls can't consent to being exploited in film just like they can't consent to sex with adults. What's the big deal?
The belief that this is some pro-pedophile movie that's exploiting 11 year olds to begin with is the big deal.
Making prepubescent girls dress and act like whores and twerking while constantly zooming in on their crotch and ass sounds pretty exploitative to me. Pretty big difference between that and them taking dance classes.
Is it though? Real girls dress like that, they twerk, and how do you know that they're acting like whores? Have you seen it? The movie from what I have heard is actively trying to argue we shouldn't normalize the sexualization of children - that a lot of this is already happening in the culture, and this movie is showing how messed up it is. At least I got that from reading about it - like most of the people condemning it I haven't seen it, so it could be a horrible misfire, but I'm pretty sure that it's not meant to be exploitative, that there's a message, and the bulk of the hate is undeserved controversy by people reading incendiary social media posts and getting enraged over something they've never watched either.

This feels less like a genuine righteous denouncement and more a baseless self righteous one. And I hate that.

Added in 2 minutes 59 seconds:
eabaker wrote:
Kaiju-King42 wrote:
KManX89 wrote:
Making prepubescent girls dress and act like whores and twerking while constantly zooming in on their crotch and ass sounds pretty exploitative to me. Pretty big difference between that and them taking dance classes.
You clearly haven't seen the dresses and dance moves that those dance recitals have, then.

I think Cuties is, overall, morally superior to those dance classes, because at least the director was careful to educate the actors about what they were doing, why they were doing it, and why it was harmful.
Ah, but you see, because Cuties is calling out the inappropriateness of it, it makes sickos feel self-conscious about their response to it, so they have to silence it. At a dance recital, they aren't confronted about their desires, so they don't feel compelled to oppose it.

Censors always have the dirtiest and most disgusting desires.
Kind of this. If Cuties didn't confront people and intentionally made them uncomfortable, the controversy wouldn't exist. And the controversy only exists for something beyond the film maker's control - that damned poster Netflix made.
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Re: General movies/Hollywood thread.

Post by Godzilla21 »

I need to actually give Cuties a watch. As a an actual father of a young girl who is in dance I might be able to lend a different perspective than a lot of people here. I'll try to give it a watch this weekend
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Re: General movies/Hollywood thread.

Post by Vakanai »

Godzilla21 wrote:I need to actually give Cuties a watch. As a an actual father of a young girl who is in dance I might be able to lend a different perspective than a lot of people here. I'll try to give it a watch this weekend
I'll definitely be interested in hearing from someone who has actually watched this. Will await your review.
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Re: General movies/Hollywood thread.

Post by eabaker »

Vakanai wrote:
Godzilla21 wrote:I need to actually give Cuties a watch. As a an actual father of a young girl who is in dance I might be able to lend a different perspective than a lot of people here. I'll try to give it a watch this weekend
I'll definitely be interested in hearing from someone who has actually watched this. Will await your review.
Agreed. I can't remember another time the board saw this much discussion of a movie that had been released, but that none of us had seen.
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Re: General movies/Hollywood thread.

Post by GodzillaFan1990's »

I just can't fathom how such a film exist.

Who in their right mind thought this was worth being greenlit? Who the skreeonk would want to be involved in this project? Who the skreeonk thought this was a good idea? Better yet, the parents of those child actresses, why would they let them be involved in such a project?

I...I just can't skreeonking even...

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Re: General movies/Hollywood thread.

Post by Spuro »

eabaker wrote:
Vakanai wrote:
Godzilla21 wrote:I need to actually give Cuties a watch. As a an actual father of a young girl who is in dance I might be able to lend a different perspective than a lot of people here. I'll try to give it a watch this weekend
I'll definitely be interested in hearing from someone who has actually watched this. Will await your review.
Agreed. I can't remember another time the board saw this much discussion of a movie that had been released, but that none of us had seen.
It's not like Cuties falls into any genre that most of us here are used to watching. How many people here seek out independent French drama films meant for film festivals?

The controversy is the only reason it fell into the public eye. I don't agree with the dumb poster Netflix used to market the film, but they sure know how to make use of "No such thing as bad publicity", I gotta give them that.
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Re: General movies/Hollywood thread.

Post by Vakanai »

GodzillaFan1990's wrote:I just can't fathom how such a film exist.

Who in their right mind thought this was worth being greenlit? Who the skreeonk would want to be involved in this project? Who the skreeonk thought this was a good idea? Better yet, the parents of those child actresses, why would they let them be involved in such a project?

I...I just can't skreeonking even...
Why? Have you seen it? What about it is so bad it should not be allowed to be made? Not what you've heard from enflamed social media people who haven't seen this movie, but an actual informed knowledge what is indefensible here?

I don't know if this film should exist or not - I'm as ignorant as everyone else. But no film should be judged by knee jerk reactions from social media because of a bad film poster and the mere fear it might be icky or pedophilic without any actual knowledge of if it is or isn't. All condemnations and judgements should come from a place of logic and fact, not by how the internet trolls have made us feel about it. Currently none of us have seen it - I'm not sure how many of us have read for sure verified reviews of it.

Let's save the pitchforks. I imagine that it's not the atrocity some are painting it as, and that it was made and approved because it's an art-house film made in France by a minority voice for the film festival circuit about girls coming of age and with a message touching on our culture today. That's not such a bad thing depending on execution.

Added in 4 minutes 21 seconds:
Kaiju-King42 wrote:
eabaker wrote:
Vakanai wrote: I'll definitely be interested in hearing from someone who has actually watched this. Will await your review.
Agreed. I can't remember another time the board saw this much discussion of a movie that had been released, but that none of us had seen.
It's not like Cuties falls into any genre that most of us here are used to watching. How many people here seek out independent French drama films meant for film festivals?

The controversy is the only reason it fell into the public eye. I don't agree with the dumb poster Netflix used to market the film, but they sure know how to make use of "No such thing as bad publicity", I gotta give them that.
Agreed. I'd never watch a film like this normally - and now if I get WiFi at home and Netflix (soon hopefully if things go as planned - satellite TV is expensive so considering cutting the cord) it's become a first day watch for me. Just so I'll know what I'm talking about. That's some publicity.
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Re: General movies/Hollywood thread.

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Disney to expand greater emphasis on streaming.

https://variety.com/2020/tv/news/walt-d ... 234801683/
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Re: General movies/Hollywood thread.

Post by Lecontinentperdu »

I haven't seen Cuties (event though I'm french, cinephile and really opened to arthouse movies), because this doesn't seem all that new.
I should give it a shot someday.

But all those "reactions" are scary. I feel bad for (some of) my American friends sometimes....
Why be so righteous? So closed-minded? So superficial (ie: not READING properly the movie)?
This seems to be a movie that "shows to tell", a movie with a message; like it or not.


And it seems to be useful to condemn the tacit injunction to be "sexy" that the society throws at young girls (and boys, that is)

It seems to condemn hypocrisy, and that's where most of the backlash seems to come from: hypocrites.

It reminds me of Verhoeven's Showgirls, that threw sex at the face of the audience as a sociological fact and haven't been understood (it's as subversive as RoboCop or Starship Troopers).

Modern consumerist society is what leads to Cuties, not the other way around.

Erk, i despise Disney Channel for that for so many years....

Which brings us to the second subject matters: let Disney die in its stream of poop, for skreeonk's sake!

cheers

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Re: General movies/Hollywood thread.

Post by Major sssspielberg! »

Lecontinentperdu wrote:I haven't seen Cuties (event though I'm french, cinephile and really opened to arthouse movies), because this doesn't seem all that new.
I should give it a shot someday.

But all those "reactions" are scary. I feel bad for (some of) my American friends sometimes....
Why be so righteous? So closed-minded? So superficial (ie: not READING properly the movie)?
This seems to be a movie that "shows to tell", a movie with a message; like it or not.


And it seems to be useful to condemn the tacit injunction to be "sexy" that the society throws at young girls (and boys, that is)

It seems to condemn hypocrisy, and that's where most of the backlash seems to come from: hypocrites.

It reminds me of Verhoeven's Showgirls, that threw sex at the face of the audience as a sociological fact and haven't been understood (it's as subversive as RoboCop or Starship Troopers).

Modern consumerist society is what leads to Cuties, not the other way around.

Erk, i despise Disney Channel for that for so many years....

Which brings us to the second subject matters: let Disney die in its stream of poop, for skreeonk's sake!

cheers
I don't think that "sexualizing young girls/children is bad" is a message that needs a somewhat explicit film made to be put across. Not a documentary at least. I don't need to watch documentary footage of a school shooting in progress to know that school shootings and gun violence are a problem.
Whether it was creeps behind the camera or not, the idea of putting that kind of stuff to film personally feels like it's going too far.
I also think it's unfair to blame "modern consumerist society" for the sexualization of kids when it's clear that pedophiles have a way of slinking into the highest echelons of society.
I live in Michigan. In the 70s we had a literal network of pedophiles that had access to an island thru a millionaire who worked as a young boy's advocate. The ring he was connected to had international connections. The co-founder of Sundance (who awarded Cuties a Dramatic Director award) was convicted for child molestation. While this was before Cuties came out, it's possible and even probable that he had friends there that were also pedophiles, because that's how they operate. It's also possible that there were no pedophiles involved in Cuties win, but just from where I'm sitting, I understand the paranoia.
I think what it comes down to is Americans have had years of media moguls, politicians, actors and businessmen being outed as sex offenders, rapists, and creeps, and more and more it's looking like those creeps find eachother and network. And in that climate they don't wanna see an explicit documentary with underage girls acting like Cardi B.
I have to agree with you about Disney however. They've been in the Cuties business for decades now.
I'll also concede that a lot of people are angry about something they haven't bothered to think so critically about, and are just virtue signalling for the sake of their politics.
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Re: General movies/Hollywood thread.

Post by KManX89 »

Major sssspielberg! wrote:
Lecontinentperdu wrote:I haven't seen Cuties (event though I'm french, cinephile and really opened to arthouse movies), because this doesn't seem all that new.
I should give it a shot someday.

But all those "reactions" are scary. I feel bad for (some of) my American friends sometimes....
Why be so righteous? So closed-minded? So superficial (ie: not READING properly the movie)?
This seems to be a movie that "shows to tell", a movie with a message; like it or not.


And it seems to be useful to condemn the tacit injunction to be "sexy" that the society throws at young girls (and boys, that is)

It seems to condemn hypocrisy, and that's where most of the backlash seems to come from: hypocrites.

It reminds me of Verhoeven's Showgirls, that threw sex at the face of the audience as a sociological fact and haven't been understood (it's as subversive as RoboCop or Starship Troopers).

Modern consumerist society is what leads to Cuties, not the other way around.

Erk, i despise Disney Channel for that for so many years....

Which brings us to the second subject matters: let Disney die in its stream of poop, for skreeonk's sake!

cheers
I don't think that "sexualizing young girls/children is bad" is a message that needs a somewhat explicit film made to be put across. Not a documentary at least. I don't need to watch documentary footage of a school shooting in progress to know that school shootings and gun violence are a problem.
Whether it was creeps behind the camera or not, the idea of putting that kind of stuff to film personally feels like it's going too far.
I also think it's unfair to blame "modern consumerist society" for the sexualization of kids when it's clear that pedophiles have a way of slinking into the highest echelons of society.
I live in Michigan. In the 70s we had a literal network of pedophiles that had access to an island thru a millionaire who worked as a young boy's advocate. The ring he was connected to had international connections. The co-founder of Sundance (who awarded Cuties a Dramatic Director award) was convicted for child molestation. While this was before Cuties came out, it's possible and even probable that he had friends there that were also pedophiles, because that's how they operate. It's also possible that there were no pedophiles involved in Cuties win, but just from where I'm sitting, I understand the paranoia.
I think what it comes down to is Americans have had years of media moguls, politicians, actors and businessmen being outed as sex offenders, rapists, and creeps, and more and more it's looking like those creeps find eachother and network. And in that climate they don't wanna see an explicit documentary with underage girls acting like Cardi B.
I have to agree with you about Disney however. They've been in the Cuties business for decades now.
I'll also concede that a lot of people are angry about something they haven't bothered to think so critically about, and are just virtue signalling for the sake of their politics.
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Re: General movies/Hollywood thread.

Post by Gigantis »

Major sssspielberg! wrote: I have to agree with you about Disney however. They've been in the Cuties business for decades now.
There's a ton of bad things about the people who unfortunately ran the poor Disney company into shreds, but besides that James Gunn controversy and one other account, i haven't heard about a single "Cuties" related problem from conception to now.

Again, i have no idea who the heck runs the company now, but it's clear they're BEYOND unfit. We need someone who can actually make Disney as a whole a good company again and not just the good stuff relegated to movies and TV shows!
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Re: General movies/Hollywood thread.

Post by Vakanai »

Lecontinentperdu wrote:I haven't seen Cuties (event though I'm french, cinephile and really opened to arthouse movies), because this doesn't seem all that new.
I should give it a shot someday.

But all those "reactions" are scary. I feel bad for (some of) my American friends sometimes....
Why be so righteous? So closed-minded? So superficial (ie: not READING properly the movie)?
This seems to be a movie that "shows to tell", a movie with a message; like it or not.


And it seems to be useful to condemn the tacit injunction to be "sexy" that the society throws at young girls (and boys, that is)

It seems to condemn hypocrisy, and that's where most of the backlash seems to come from: hypocrites.

It reminds me of Verhoeven's Showgirls, that threw sex at the face of the audience as a sociological fact and haven't been understood (it's as subversive as RoboCop or Starship Troopers).

Modern consumerist society is what leads to Cuties, not the other way around.

Erk, i despise Disney Channel for that for so many years....

Which brings us to the second subject matters: let Disney die in its stream of poop, for skreeonk's sake!

cheers
Uh...what does Disney have to do with any of this? Seems unrelated to me.
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Re: General movies/Hollywood thread.

Post by CrimsonBloodX »

So, I finally watched The New Mutants after purchasing the Blu-ray on Black Friday. It arrived at my house yesterday and I just finished. I thought it was good. The plot wasn't anything to write home about, but it wasn't uninteresting. I like the characters, they do a good job developing them, I like the horror, though it's the most common type of horror that you can get, but that's fine by me and the climax is really cool. But I really think it should've been an R-rated movie instead of PG-13. I mean, the F-bomb was dropped twice and the horror and violence can be a bit tense, so I don't know why they couldn't go all the way and achieve an R-rating, but whatever. I really like this movie and I'm happy with it being in my movie collection. 4/5
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