Marvel Cinematic Universe

[darthzilla99]

I saw both NWH and Shang gi this week.

NWH was good but a little overrated.

Spoilers ahead:





Cons:
I definitely felt like it had too many villains at once. I know the theme is curing them and they all had their origin movies but it still feels like they are just kinda of there.

Sandmans motivation for joining the villains in the final battle was weak and out of place since he just wanted to go home while the others wanted to stay.

Lots of little potholes like why didn't Andrew Garfield hold down Green Goblin while Toby was stopping Tom.

Some cringey dialogue like "scooby do this shit".

There was some bad acting in this movie. Toby was really phoned in except when he talks with Doc Ock and William Defoe was too hammy in his Green Goblin performance. His Norman was fine though.

Pros:

Great character development and themes.

Andrew Garfield and Jaime Fox stole the show for me. I like that Andrew got closure when he saved MJ and Electro was really fun in this movie.

Love that Tom Holland is dealing with massive consequences and will have more traditional spiderman stories going forward.

I give NWH a 7.5 out of a 10.

Shang Gi:

It was different. Katy got annoying with her crass humor. She felt like a Michael Bay character. The final monster battle was anticlimactic. But the movie had good narrative themes on family, the father was a good antagonist, and the cinematography was beautiful. Loved the kungfu fight scenes and the way the rings worked.

I give Shang gi a 6.5 out of a 10.

[Tyrant_Lizard_King]

Just watched Eternals on Disney+ finally. Karun was my favorite. With the film's version of the creation of the Marvel universe it makes you wonder just how they'll handle Galactus if he comes around. A rogue Celestial perhaps?

[CyberZilla]

Just watched Eternals on Disney+ finally. Karun was my favorite. With the film's version of the creation of the Marvel universe it makes you wonder just how they'll handle Galactus if he comes around. A rogue Celestial perhaps?

Or some kind of Celestial hunter/predator, if the information in the movie is anything to go by.

[Voyager]

Cons:
I definitely felt like it had too many villains at once. I know the theme is curing them and they all had their origin movies but it still feels like they are just kinda of there.

Sandmans motivation for joining the villains in the final battle was weak and out of place since he just wanted to go home while the others wanted to stay.

Lots of little potholes like why didn't Andrew Garfield hold down Green Goblin while Toby was stopping Tom.

Some cringey dialogue like "scooby do this shit".

There was some bad acting in this movie. Toby was really phoned in except when he talks with Doc Ock and William Defoe was too hammy in his Green Goblin performance. His Norman was fine though.

1. Eh.

2. Eh.

3. I wouldn’t call that a Plothole. Why would he need too? Norman was basically on the brink of death.

4. I didn’t find that cringe, personally. I think it’s just a little cute funny moment for Strange.

5. Willem Dafoe did not act bad. The “hammy” aspect of the Goblin is the whole point. It’s the duality of man. Norman is a calm, collected, kind man while his alter ego, the Green Goblin, is a crazed psycho who just wants to kill.

[Chrispy_G]

For a while I kept saying that Endgame should be the finale and that there wasn't really any reason to go beyond that point. The nosedive in quality seen in the Disney+ shows and films like Black Widow, Shang-Chi and Eternals made me feel more and more confident in that decision.

I make the exception for Spider-Man: Far From Home and Spider-Man: No Way Home...they are the perfect epilogues to this whole Saga. The Raimi Trilogy has retroactively been turned into the beginning of the MCU. It creates this great scenario where the Saga begins and ends with Spider-Man, who without a doubt has now been proven to be the single most popular superhero of the new millennium.

By attaching the Maguire and Garfield Spider-Man films to the MCU....it pretty much allows Sony to hijack this entire endeavor and make the whole thing feel very Spider-Man-focused. The Saga includes 3 different versions of Spider-Man. You get a grand total of 8 Spider-Man Solo films and 11 appearances from Spider-Man across 20+ movies.

I think it was an amazing culmination of 20 years of Spider-Man and Marvel movies. A perfect blend of the MCU and MCU Spider-Man with the previous two Spider-Man incarnations and their 5 major villains.

It culminates, vindicates, redeems, and enshrines every Spider-Man film that came before and brings 20 years of Marvel dominance to a conclusion that was, shockingly, much more satisfying than Endgame.

It all started with Spider-Man and it all ends with Spider-Man.

[LSD Jellyfish]

I saw Shang-Chi a few months ago and honestly it’s one of my favorite marvel films. Easily the best since avengers infinity war for me. I’m not obsessed with the MCU, but it was the type of thing that gives me hope about future marvel properties.

[Chrispy_G]

A number of the films honestly just don't pass the test of deserving to be included, they are either redundant, about the closest thing to 'filler' that this franchise has, or bring more issues to the table than they are worth.

Incredible Hulk isn't necessary because Hulk gets properly re-established and introduced in The Avengers. The final scene of TIH with Stark had to be ret-conned and recontextualized to even fit within the series. The Banner re-casting, all of the various characters/threads that never get followed up on after the film, etc...best to leave it out. I like the movie just fine, it just doesn't fit.

Black Panther isn't necessary because BP was introduced in Civil War, and Infinity War works just fine as the 'reveal' of Wakanda. Having a whole film dedicated to re-solidifying T'Challa as Black Panther....and introducing a bunch of rather wonky lore around Wakanda on top of it....just doesn't really work in the flow of the series. It is more of a 'planting seeds for Phase 4 and beyond' type of film. Again, as a film it is fine and Boseman is awesome...but the movie just doesn't really flow or connect well into the "Infinity Saga"

Ant-Man and the Wasp - Skippable because between Ant-Man's mid-credits scene and Lang's dialogue in Endgame...this becomes a pretty much useless entry.

Captain Marvel - Introduces a heap of oddities into the timeline. SHIELD as a name was seemingly not put into practice until the events of Iron Man. Yet Fury and Coulson and using it here. Thor was established as the first alien that arrived to Earth and 'changed everything' yet you have aliens on Earth in the mid-90s. The reveal of Fury's eye being gauged out by an alien cat in a random moment REALLY under-cuts the gravity with which the event is treated in The Winter Soldier. Naming the 'Avenger Initiative' after Danvers is the epitome of contrived. With the Skrulls plot-line....it is another "Setting up more for Phase 4 and beyond" as opposed to really belonging with the Infinity Saga.

Captain Marvel in Endgame, WITH or WITHOUT her introductory film, is little more than a plot device powerful character who makes an extended cameo to help out the characters when needed.....she randomly shows up and is introduced to all of the other characters as some powerful newbie they've never met. That functions whether she has a 'backstory film' or not...and considering how many contrivances and complications her backstory film brings to the table, it is best to leave it out.

So when you take out these oddities, you're left with 25 films spanning 20 years.

1. Spider-Man
2. Spider-Man 2
3. Spider-Man 3
4. Captain America: The First Avenger
5. Iron Man
6. Iron Man 2
7. Thor
8. The Avengers
9. Iron Man 3
10. The Amazing Spider-Man
11. The Amazing Spider-Man 2
12. Thor: The Dark World
13. Guardians of the Galaxy
14. Captain America: The Winter Soldier
15. Avengers: Age of Ultron
16. Ant-Man
17. Captain America: Civil War
18. Doctor Strange
19. Guardians of the Galaxy Vol 2
20. Thor: Ragnarok
21. Spider-Man: Homecoming
22. Avengers: Infinity War
23. Avengers: Endgame
24. Spider-Man: Far From Home
25. Spider-Man: No Way Home

[miguelnuva]

I'm not even going to touch why Black Panther is cut out of your list crispy.

[LSD Jellyfish]

I’d say that saying things needs to be cut out, implies the movies aren’t interesting/worth it on their own. I think there’s a lot of mediocre marvel films, and they aren’t exactly things I hold high value in, but I enjoy quite a few you’ve left out of the list and don’t care about what they contribute overall to the MCU.

[Cryptid_Liker]

Here’s something I’ve been thinking about for a couple days. What if the MCU absorbed other Marvel films of the time into its canon during Phase 2? Like, for example, the Amazing Spider-Man and 2015’s Fantastic Four? I’m not saying I prefer either of those over the ones we got/will be getting in the MCU but it’d certainly be interesting.

(And no, I’m not talking about portal scenes. I mean full-on making those films canon.)

[GodzillaFan1990's]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWzlQ2N6qqg

Trailer for Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness is out.

[Chrispy_G]

I'm not even going to touch why Black Panther is cut out of your list crispy.

I'm not dignifying that subtle....accusation?....with a response. I'll just say go eat dirt, and move on.

I'm a lot less interested in Doctor Strange. No Way Home did the multiverse thing with a sense of value and legitimacy. Every character they pulled in had meaning and a pretty sizable or worthwhile role. Yeah, Lizard and Sandman were just kind of there...but them being there without a lot to do is still better than if they were left out.

With Multiverse of Madness, it kind of just looks like they are saying "Oh, people liked us bringing in 7 characters from 2 other universes...so lets do that with 10 times as much flash and nowhere near as much value or meaning" and I'm not terribly interested in that.

I don't want a compilation of cameos and absolutely random variants just to go clickbait with the movie and drum up a bunch of empty hype. I also think bringing in "what if" versions of the characters is a LITTLE stupid.

No Way Home reaching back to the Raimi films felt like a proper tribute to the cinematic history of Spider-Man specifically and Marvel in general. If Multiverse of Madness includes....Professor X or something, it doesn't feel like it has meaning or value beyond just "look we plucked someone from the original X-Men, remember way back when that movie happened?"...it feels much more superficial.

[eabaker]

With Multiverse of Madness, it kind of just looks like they are saying "Oh, people liked us bringing in 7 characters from 2 other universes...so lets do that with 10 times as much flash and nowhere near as much value or meaning" and I'm not terribly interested in that.

Well, it's unlikely that any of the major concepts or characters in Multiverse were introduced in response to NWH's success, since the former was developed and produced before the latter's release.

As for how much value and meaning there is... I really can't see making an especially informed assessment based on a trailer; but considering that a major thread of the film seems to be following up on the arc of WandaVision, I see reason to at least suspect that there's a genuine emotional and character-driven story to tell here.

[miguelnuva]

I'm not even going to touch why Black Panther is cut out of your list crispy.

I'm not dignifying that subtle....accusation?....with a response. I'll just say go eat dirt, and move on.

So were jumping straight to accusations now then?

[eabaker]

I'm not even going to touch why Black Panther is cut out of your list crispy.

I'm not dignifying that subtle....accusation?....with a response. I'll just say go eat dirt, and move on.

So were jumping straight to accusations now then?

Okay, guys, this is not a road we're going down any further in this thread.

[miguelnuva]

I'm not dignifying that subtle....accusation?....with a response. I'll just say go eat dirt, and move on.

So were jumping straight to accusations now then?

Okay, guys, this is not a road we're going down any further in this thread.

As you wish.

[Voyager]

The Spider-Man films are the only post-Endgame films I’m really interested in watching again.

[Chrispy_G]

Well, it's unlikely that any of the major concepts or characters in Multiverse were introduced in response to NWH's success, since the former was developed and produced before the latter's release.

As for how much value and meaning there is... I really can't see making an especially informed assessment based on a trailer; but considering that a major thread of the film seems to be following up on the arc of WandaVision, I see reason to at least suspect that there's a genuine emotional and character-driven story to tell here.

I remember right around mid-late December when NWH came out we started to hear about all of those '6 Days a Week reshoots' happening on Doctor Strange. The rumor was 'to add a bunch of cameos'.....so I suppose we will have to wait and see the finished film to see how it all plays out. I'm not saying Multiverse of Madness exists because of NHW, originally it was set to come out before, I think. I'm just saying that the positive buzz that has been surrounding NWH ever since the multiverse aspect of it was revealed by Molina confirming his involvement....I'm just saying that buzz could have easily influenced and informed how Multiverse of Madness has been executed.

The Spider-Man films are the only post-Endgame films I’m really interested in watching again.

Yeah. When I look at the entire Marvel Studios output of 2018, 2019 and 2021...the only true keepers for me are Infinity War, Endgame, Far From Home and No Way Home. The rest is better left out.

[Angilasman]

NWH was very fun and satisfying, but are folks serious when they say it should get a best picture nom?! It's your classic fanservice-intensive anniversary special thingy. The seams are very visible for even casual viewers. The thing that makes it work in the end is some very endearing performances by several of the actors (returning guests and current regulars) and I have to compliment Holland, who I think finally gets to display a lot of the nuances that really make Spider-Man Spider-Man.

[Chrispy_G]

27 might be a cool number to have a Marvel Marathon at. 3 sets of 9...which are comprised of 3 sets of 3.