What ruined your day?

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Spuro
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Re: What ruined your day?

Post by Spuro »

JAGzilla wrote: Sun Jun 26, 2022 9:57 am Like I said, it's all really uncomfortable, isn't it?
Not really, I moreso find that line of reasoning to be insane troll logic more than anything else.
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Re: What ruined your day?

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Legion1979 wrote: Sun Jun 26, 2022 8:21 amJust a few posts above Beast Blood went into detail about how horrifying this is for her. Women all over the country are feeling the same way, scared, helpless and terrified.
Oh, I actually live in an area where abortion is legal (I'm in Quebec). I just got so into my "what if" mental scenario that I started talking about it in the present/future tenses in some places, when in fact it's more of a conditional. I was just passionately hammering away at my keyboard in a way that got confusing and inconsistent with the grammar. lol
Terasawa wrote: Sun Jun 26, 2022 7:23 am And thank you for sharing your perspective.
Cheers. I might not be in an area where abortion actually is illegal, but that primal fear, the constant need to look over my shoulder, is very much there (just made worse by my anxiety lol). It's only made slightly less horrifying to think about because I know that I can get proper help and support if it happens, as opposed to being condemned to live the rest of my life with even more struggle. I feel infinitely sorry for the women who do have all this added anxiety/stress to think about.
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Re: What ruined your day?

Post by Kiryu2012 »

I really do hope this shit gets fixed, because this really does impact a lot of people's lives for the worst. It's this kind of shit that's what made me feel inclined to identify as an anarchist, because I just can't stand the direction the Supreme Court is taking.
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Re: What ruined your day?

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Spuro wrote: Sun Jun 26, 2022 10:34 am
JAGzilla wrote: Sun Jun 26, 2022 9:57 am Like I said, it's all really uncomfortable, isn't it?
Not really, I moreso find that line of reasoning to be insane troll logic more than anything else.
I'd be lying if I said I wasn't trolling just a little bit here. But insanity? Are you trying to say that getting an abortion or jacking off somehow isn't killing a baby or potential future baby?

Again, we're on the same side here with regards to the actual abortion debate, I just get annoyed when people want to focus on the freedom and the rights and the reasons and the benefits, and gloss over the unappetizing
fact at the center of it all. Regardless of any other factor, there is a dead baby/future baby involved here. You can cover it up with all the qualifications and terminology you want, but it'll still be there.
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Re: What ruined your day?

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JAGzilla wrote: Sun Jun 26, 2022 2:27 pm
Spuro wrote: Sun Jun 26, 2022 10:34 am
JAGzilla wrote: Sun Jun 26, 2022 9:57 am Like I said, it's all really uncomfortable, isn't it?
Not really, I moreso find that line of reasoning to be insane troll logic more than anything else.
I'd be lying if I said I wasn't trolling just a little bit here. But insanity? Are you trying to say that getting an abortion or jacking off somehow isn't killing a baby or potential future baby?
Abortion is debatable.

Sperm cells, on the other hand? Millions of those are produced by the human body every day, and those sperm cells get constantly broken down and reabsorbed by the body even if a man doesn't ejaculate. You'd be expending sperm cells by refraining from sexual activity anyway.

Not to mention that sperm cells aren't individual human babies; they're just cells that carry genetic material. Babies are made from a combination of the genetic material of the sperm and egg.

So no, 'jacking off' doesn't kill babies, nor does protective sex, nor does refraining from sexual activity. That's just silly.
Last edited by Spuro on Sun Jun 26, 2022 3:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What ruined your day?

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Spuro wrote: Sun Jun 26, 2022 3:16 pm
JAGzilla wrote: Sun Jun 26, 2022 2:27 pm
Spuro wrote: Sun Jun 26, 2022 10:34 am

Not really, I moreso find that line of reasoning to be insane troll logic more than anything else.
I'd be lying if I said I wasn't trolling just a little bit here. But insanity? Are you trying to say that getting an abortion or jacking off somehow isn't killing a baby or potential future baby?
Abortion is debatable.

Sperm cells, on the other hand? Millions of those are produced by the human body every day, and those sperm cells get constantly broken down and reabsorbed by the body even if a man doesn't ejaculate. You'd be expending sperm cells by refraining from sexual activity anyway.

Not to mention that sperm cells aren't individual human babies; they're just cells that carry genetic material. Babies are made from a combination of the genetic material of the sperm and egg.

So no, 'jacking off' doesn't kill babies, nor does protective sex, nor does refraining from sexual activity. That's just silly.
All true statements, but of course any given sperm cell that is combined with an egg is given a shot at life, while any that is wasted is just... well, wasted. More dead potential babies, whether it was inevitable or not.

But darkly amusing as it's been, this absurd side discussion needs to end so Spirit Ghidorah doesn't successfully bury my main point. Good effort, though.
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Re: What ruined your day?

Post by Voyager »

Equating jacking off to genocide when talking about abortion is questionable at best…
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Re: What ruined your day?

Post by Spirit Ghidorah 2010 »

Equating abortion to murder is just as questionable, hence why I brought it up in the first place.
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Re: What ruined your day?

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Whether you want to use the name of a specific crime or not, you are knowingly and intentionally taking the life of a baby/future baby. Ask whatever questions you want to, but the baby is still dead.
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Re: What ruined your day?

Post by Major sssspielberg! »

I want to print this thread which contains passionate arguments about janking off being murder (on a Godzilla forum) in the Louvre. Or mint it as one of those, uhh... whattaya call em, NFTs? A non-fuckable toucan?
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Re: What ruined your day?

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Major sssspielberg! wrote: Sun Jun 26, 2022 8:21 pm I want to print this thread which contains passionate arguments about janking off being murder (on a Godzilla forum) in the Louvre. Or mint it as one of those, uhh... whattaya call em, NFTs? A non-fuckable toucan?
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Re: What ruined your day?

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What else should we spend the 999th page of a negativity-based thread talking about? :lol:

And Spirit Ghidorah's disruption tactics continue to work like a charm, so credit where it's due. :applause:
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Re: What ruined your day?

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A lot of this is going in circles. I'll say this, and I apologize in advance if this is obvious to anyone already:

If you remove an embryo/fetus from a woman's womb, prior to five months, it will die. Even then, the 5th and 6th months have very low survival rates, and are near impossible to live without a lot of modern medicine. Most anti-abortion rhetoric imagines a 8 or 9 month old fetus getting destroyed, which just isn't the case. Most states, where abortions are legal, do not allow abortions to take place after a certain, and reasonable, timespan. The fetus is entirely dependent on the mother's body, and is physical connected. While this is impossible for me as a human being to answer, you could easily make the argument that the fetus isn't alive, but, at that point, an extension of the mother's body. These are philosophical questions that have no easy answer, and I don't claim to have easy answers. I suppose Jagzilla is right, in a way, that yes, you could consider it a life, or living thing. But it's not the same as a baby that has already been born, or the mother that is carrying it.

Many people have different beliefs where life exactly begins, and I accept that my own beliefs are going to differ from others. That's the key point: pro-choice people, and people who are frustrated with the recent ruling, don't claim to know better than others on when that begins. The debate isn't when you think life begins. It's about abortion. Roe v. Wade, allowed people and women, to make those choices for themselves. The freedom to make that choice and deeply personal decision. Worse off, what people ignore is that many states just instantly moved to ban near all abortions. It's not even just, "let's limit and change rules on abortion", it's, "Nah, lets outlaw it completely".

While I don't think Jagzilla agrees with this, this is all very frustrating because people who spout how abortion is murder, suddenly freeze up when other situations are brought up. Usually the same people who espouse anti-abortion rhetoric are the same people that are pro capital punishment, turn a blind eye to police brutality and shootings, and devalue human life from War, to poverty and other conflicts. I could respect pro-life people more if they weren't so picky and choosy, but all of it is about controlling women's bodies. I've known religious people, who are pro-choice, because they understand their convictions are different than others.
Spirit Ghidorah 2010 wrote: Sun Dec 03, 2023 4:54 pm Anno-san pleasures me more than Yamasaki-san.

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Re: What ruined your day?

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I just think anything that takes life is abhorrent. If it saves a woman’s life however, that is more important than the foetus. Many pro-lifers do want to control women’s bodily autonomy, no doubt about that, but I for one just want to conserve life. Thus… pro-life. And thinking that all pro-lifers want to control women’s bodies is just plain irresponsible. No better than generalising any other group.
Last edited by Voyager on Mon Jun 27, 2022 12:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What ruined your day?

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I was told there was a discussion about jerking off versus abortion in here, and I was ready to come in here and troll the shit out of this thread and then realized its a legit debate with actual points being made. Thus, I can not troll.

This ruined my day.


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Re: What ruined your day?

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LSD Jellyfish wrote: Sun Jun 26, 2022 10:00 pm While I don't think Jagzilla agrees with this, this is all very frustrating because people who spout how abortion is murder, suddenly freeze up when other situations are brought up. Usually the same people who espouse anti-abortion rhetoric are the same people that are pro capital punishment, turn a blind eye to police brutality and shootings, and devalue human life from War, to poverty and other conflicts. I could respect pro-life people more if they weren't so picky and choosy, but all of it is about controlling women's bodies. I've known religious people, who are pro-choice, because they understand their convictions are different than others.
It wouldn't bother me so much if pro-lifers did or said anything to try to mitigate the damage that outlawing abortion would entail. I have yet to see a single pro-lifer (here included) advocate for increased access to contraceptives, or improving our sex education system, or increased welfare coverage, or financial nutrition assistance programs, or paid family leave, or closing the cavernous wage gap.

FFS, most pro-lifers I've seen are deathly afraid of universal healthcare or financial/food support for needy families, because that would be socialism. Remember when pro-life politicians in 2019 cut the budget for WIC and SNAP, further screwing over god-knows-how many low-income families? You'd think that people of Christ would be stronger advocates of feeding the poor and helping the needy.

It's not about saving lives. It's about controlling them.
They absolutely could have codified it when Obama had a majority, which he promised he would do but then just didnt.
Going back to this point, the first time we ever had a pro-choice majority in the House was 2018. By then, Trump was already in office. So, no, Dems couldn't ever codify it.
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Re: What ruined your day?

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The lack of free healthcare in this country is particularly asinine. Call it socialism or Naziism or Buddhism or whatever the fuck you want, if I can walk into an eye clinic and get Lasik without having to fork over a few paychecks, I'll take it.
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Re: What ruined your day?

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"Male ejaculation is murder" is an absolutely moronic position. If you count the "death" of a single sperm as murder, then, by that skewed logic, you have to view the act of conception itself as genocide: what the fuck (pun intended) do you think happens to the millions of sperms that don't fertilize the egg?

A "potential future baby" is not a life. Something that does not exist does not have life and therefore isn't entitled to the same rights as a living human being. Argue that a fetus deserves the same rights as its mother, sure, I get that; but this whole masturbation angle seems like a deflection from the real issue that was being discussed.
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Re: What ruined your day?

Post by Major sssspielberg! »

Spirit Ghidorah 2010 wrote: Mon Jun 27, 2022 2:28 am
They absolutely could have codified it when Obama had a majority, which he promised he would do but then just didnt.
Going back to this point, the first time we ever had a pro-choice majority in the House was 2018. By then, Trump was already in office. So, no, Dems couldn't ever codify it.
One of the things Obama ran on codifying Roe in 2008 IIRC, and then said that it wasn't really a priority once actually in office (because of division on the issue)
If I remember correctly the House was a dem majority back then, by a narrow margin but a majority nonetheless.
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Re: What ruined your day?

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Terasawa wrote: Mon Jun 27, 2022 4:40 am "Male ejaculation is murder" is an absolutely moronic position. If you count the "death" of a single sperm as murder, then, by that skewed logic, you have to view the act of conception itself as genocide: what the skreeonk (pun intended) do you think happens to the millions of sperms that don't fertilize the egg?

A "potential future baby" is not a life. Something that does not exist does not have life and therefore isn't entitled to the same rights as a living human being. Argue that a fetus deserves the same rights as its mother, sure, I get that; but this whole masturbation angle seems like a deflection from the real issue that was being discussed.
All of this is accurate. If it hasn't been clear, this was never a position I was seriously trying to hold; I even said earlier that I was trolling a little bit by even taking Spirit's bait. He's gotten exactly what he wanted: the whole conversation has been derailed and I'm being made out to be an idiot for even discussing a stupid idea he brought up in the first place.

For clarity's sake, I'll restate my original point: I understand and can agree with the reasons one might want to get an abortion, I just don't like seeing the concept sugar-coated. Whether the lump of cells is technically a living thing yet or not, you're (in most cases) getting the abortion in order to prevent it from becoming a living thing, which amounts to the same thing. Either way, there is a life or would have been a life that is being ended as a direct result of your choice. If you want to go through with it, fine. That's your call to make. More power to you. Just own up to it, is all.

If anyone is hung up on the term 'murder' and the legal ramifications thereof, I don't care. Call it whatever you want, but don't try to pretend the baby isn't dead. I get the impression that some outspoken pro-choice types (honestly not referring to anyone in particular) get kind of caught up in promoting the good sides of abortion and treat it as some positive, wholesome thing, and just lose sight of what it is at its core. That doesn't sit well with me.
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