What Gets On Your Nerves 2, The Thread Without a Witty Subtitle!

[Gigantis]

I enjoy coming to my unxles house every Fourth of July.. but there's not nearly as much people as their usually is. Doesn't feel right.

[eabaker]

God, I hate Gatekeepers

Don't hurt Zuul's feelings.

[_JNavs_]

I disagree with temp banning someone based on a word that clearly some of the board are aware, exists, and is also attributed to very serious issues that determine certain ideals as lesser than another. Like most other groups that have the same problem.

It should be something that should be acknowledged and dissected. Not put on an insta-ban list.

I've been called every name in the book on twitter by both groups because of my "wrong-think" that doesn't fit in with the echo-chambered "majority". It all is really becoming a hivemind.

Point being, numerous members on this board fall all across the spectrum of thoughts, as, this IS a Public Forum. So if we go on ahead with this idea of ridding of one word, might as well rid ourselves of every buzzword currently available to us.

[eabaker]

I disagree with temp banning someone based on a word that clearly some of the board are aware, exists, and is also attributed to very serious issues that determine certain ideals as lesser than another. Like most other groups that have the same problem.

It should be something that should be acknowledged and dissected. Not put on an insta-ban list.

I've been called every name in the book on twitter by both groups because of my "wrong-think" that doesn't fit in with the echo-chambered "majority". It all is really becoming a hivemind.

Point being, numerous members on this board fall all across the spectrum of thoughts, as, this IS a Public Forum. So if we go on ahead with this idea of ridding of one word, might as well rid ourselves of every buzzword currently available to us.

I don't believe anybody was temp-banned for the use of a word.

There was some conversation about the use of a word (well, an initialism, technically). It didn't result in any warnings or banning on either side.

[JAGzilla]

goji89 got his ban over in the What Made Your Day thread. It wasn't because of anything that happened in here.

[Spuro]

-snip-

The guy was temp banned because he was starting flame wars/trolling by randomly going on about "liberal sjw snowflakes hating America" in the thread, then proceeded to continue when mods told him to stop or he'd get a double warning.

There is literally no reason to defend him. There's no ideology war at play there. Blatant trolling or flamebait is against the rules and gets staff attention, and continueing after a mod has warned you to stop is just... you get what's coming to you when you do that.

[Spirit Ghidorah 2010]

[KManX89]

Anti-SJWs are worse than SJWs.

In a sense, I'd agree. Complaining endlessly about Brie Larson's benign inclusivity comments and starting 9/11 truther-level conspiracy theories about Disney buying tickets to completely empty theaters to "pad" its box office when it was a massive hit and about everything under the sun being "woke" to the point that it's pretty much lost all its meaning now, just like cancel culture, which is the new "woke".

SJWs annoy me, too with their complaining about "muh feemayles being objectified" and censorship (case in point, though I don't mind Fire Emblem Fates' censorship on that page, at least the drugging and ungaying subplot, which I'm shocked even made it in in the first place), don't get me wrong, but in recent months, the antis have started to annoy me as much, if not more than SJWs.

[Major sssspielberg!]

(don't read this if you have high blood pressure because it's maximum salt)
"HEY did you know Clifford the big red dog is a KAIJU?!? hurr durr lel XD"
Maybe I'm just a d-bag but I hate that people in the West learned the word kaiju and now they think any big animal is a kaiju.
Fuck off James Gunn, Starro is not a kaiju.

[Spuro]

Fuck off James Gunn, Starro is not a kaiju.

He does bear an extremely uncanny resemblance to a certain other old Japanese movie monster, though.

[LSD Jellyfish]

(don't read this if you have high blood pressure because it's maximum salt)
"HEY did you know Clifford the big red dog is a KAIJU?!? hurr durr lel XD"
Maybe I'm just a d-bag but I hate that people in the West learned the word kaiju and now they think any big animal is a kaiju.
skreeonk off James Gunn, Starro is not a kaiju.

I don't use this word lightly, or in a way that using it inherently makes you "bad", but it's really obnoxious to me how the word "Kaiju" is being appropriated by the general public. Over the years I've been more flexible about what is and isn't a Kaiju, but certainly both Clifford and Starro are not "Kaiju".

[gottatalktothefake]

Everything, I posted about it more in the mental health thread but something is happening to me and I don’t like it

[JAGzilla]

(don't read this if you have high blood pressure because it's maximum salt)
"HEY did you know Clifford the big red dog is a KAIJU?!? hurr durr lel XD"
Maybe I'm just a d-bag but I hate that people in the West learned the word kaiju and now they think any big animal is a kaiju.
skreeonk off James Gunn, Starro is not a kaiju.

I don't use this word lightly, or in a way that using it inherently makes you "bad", but it's really obnoxious to me how the word "Kaiju" is being appropriated by the general public. Over the years I've been more flexible about what is and isn't a Kaiju, but certainly both Clifford and Starro are not "Kaiju".

Oh, come on. We're in a new Kaiju Boom, the genre is becoming more mainstream and prolific than it's been since before almost any of us here were born, we're getting new content left and right. Are we really going to respond by gatekeeping, quibbling over terminology, and putting our radioactive rubber dinosaurs and cyborg space chickens on a pedestal?

[Terasawa]

Yes, because calling "Clifford the Big Red Dog" a kaiju is flat out incorrect, unless your intent is to bend the definition of "kaiju" to the point that it breaks.

[LSD Jellyfish]

Everything, I posted about it more in the mental health thread but something is happening to me and I don’t like it

I read that and I apologize for being a little salty at times as well. I hope you're doing better and hang in there. It's been a rough last year for everyone so I hope you're able to find some solace.

Yes, because calling "Clifford the Big Red Dog" a kaiju is flat out incorrect, unless your intent is to bend the definition of "kaiju" to the point that it breaks.

Yeah, I'm not trying to gatekeep. I'm completely over things like the PR Kaiju being Kaiju, or people calling Kong a Kaiju and whatnot. But when it's just something that's big, and the term becomes so loose, and as you say "incorrect" the significance of a genre term becomes completely unimportant and loses some of its luster.

Starro, if I cross my eyes, can sort of see as a homage to the genre (although we don't know if that was ever the case), so whatever, but I also think it's sort of strange for the original creators to also take away their own originality by lumping it into the category. However, if James Gunn says it's a Kaiju and took his own inspiration from the genre, then hey, whatever.

[JAGzilla]

Yes, because calling "Clifford the Big Red Dog" a kaiju is flat out incorrect, unless your intent is to bend the definition of "kaiju" to the point that it breaks.

Hey, he's a beast, he's strange, he's freakishly oversized... it's not much of a stretch. But fine, I'll give you Clifford. Starro? If he had originated in a Japanese work, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

[LSD Jellyfish]

Yes, because calling "Clifford the Big Red Dog" a kaiju is flat out incorrect, unless your intent is to bend the definition of "kaiju" to the point that it breaks.

Hey, he's a beast, he's strange, he's freakishly oversized... it's not much of a stretch. But fine, I'll give you Clifford. Starro? If he had originated in a Japanese work, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

Yeah I think that's what we are getting at (and seeming to be agreeing on). But I do think that somehow having a Japanese origin, even if it's purely inspirational, should be a key element. Otherwise, in it's own way, it detracts from Starro's (and by Proxy America's) own unique history of monsters. I think it's actually cooler to see something like Starro, and appreciate that Americans made that.

[Mac Daddy MM]

Yes, because calling "Clifford the Big Red Dog" a kaiju is flat out incorrect, unless your intent is to bend the definition of "kaiju" to the point that it breaks.

Hey, he's a beast, he's strange, he's freakishly oversized... it's not much of a stretch. But fine, I'll give you Clifford. Starro? If he had originated in a Japanese work, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

Yeah I think that's what we are getting at (and seeming to be agreeing on). But I do think that somehow having a Japanese origin, even if it's purely inspirational, should be a key element. Otherwise, in it's own way, it detracts from Starro's (and by Proxy America's) own unique history of monsters. I think it's actually cooler to see something like Starro, and appreciate that Americans made that.

Chiming in here, I think the problem with this logic is where exactly do we draw the line at. Are you going to say monsters like Pulgasari and Yonggary, both of whom originated in North and South Korea, aren't kaiju? Gorgo from the UK and Reptilicus from Denmark? Not kaiju either? While I can understand the argument you're making for stuff like the original King Kong, Ray Harryhausen's work and the assortment of giant bugs from the 50's (Though, I personally lump stuff like Deadly Mantis, Tarantula, THEM!, Black Scorpion and Giant Claw into a "western/American kaiju" group), I have problems not understanding why not giving the aforementioned monsters the "kaiju" label simply because they don't come from the land of the rising sun, especially other Asian giants like Pulgasari, Yonggary, and the Thunder Serpent.

And let's not pretend the Pacific Rim films are anything but Hollywood spectacle with inspiration from classic Toku. But at the end of the day, 100% pure American-made monsters. Not kaiju either?

[JAGzilla]

Yeah I think that's what we are getting at (and seeming to be agreeing on). But I do think that somehow having a Japanese origin, even if it's purely inspirational, should be a key element. Otherwise, in it's own way, it detracts from Starro's (and by Proxy America's) own unique history of monsters. I think it's actually cooler to see something like Starro, and appreciate that Americans made that.

Okay, this is understandable. I can agree with you here. Really, though, we've gotten off-track and are just, again, quibbling over terminology. The issue at hand is expecting the average non-fan or casual to understand what defines a 'kaiju' when even we lifelong fans aren't fully on the same page. I say leave things like the Starro reference alone and let it serve to increase mainstream awareness that the term and associated genre even exist. No doubt a lot of people will fail to get the reference, a few will look the word 'kaiju' up, and who knows, maybe a handful of those will fall down the rabbit hole and become new fans.

[LSD Jellyfish]

Hey, he's a beast, he's strange, he's freakishly oversized... it's not much of a stretch. But fine, I'll give you Clifford. Starro? If he had originated in a Japanese work, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

Yeah I think that's what we are getting at (and seeming to be agreeing on). But I do think that somehow having a Japanese origin, even if it's purely inspirational, should be a key element. Otherwise, in it's own way, it detracts from Starro's (and by Proxy America's) own unique history of monsters. I think it's actually cooler to see something like Starro, and appreciate that Americans made that.

Chiming in here, I think the problem with this logic is where exactly do we draw the line at. Are you going to say monsters like Pulgasari and Yonggary, both of whom originated in North and South Korea, aren't kaiju? Gorgo from the UK and Reptilicus from Denmark? Not kaiju either? While I can understand the argument you're making for stuff like the original King Kong, Ray Harryhausen's work and the assortment of giant bugs from the 50's (Though, I personally lump stuff like Deadly Mantis, Tarantula, THEM!, Black Scorpion and Giant Claw into a "western/American kaiju" group), I have problems not understanding why not giving the aforementioned monsters the "kaiju" label simply because they don't come from the land of the rising sun, especially other Asian giants like Pulgasari, Yonggary, and the Thunder Serpent.

And let's not pretend the Pacific Rim films are anything but Hollywood spectacle with inspiration from classic Toku. But at the end of the day, 100% pure American-made monsters. Not kaiju either?

I agree with everything you've said here. It would be easy to call Pulgasari or Yongary Kaiju films specifically because they've been directly inspired by Godzilla. We might denote such films as "Korean-Kaiju films". Things get hairy when you consider Rampage. Rampage was clearly inspired by Godzilla and other Toho properties (someone clearly liked Varan and Biollante), and it is itself based on a game that was a clear homage to other things. But is Rampage a Kaiju film? I don't think that's an easy question, but it certainly leans more heavily in that direction than something like Independence Day Resurgence, or Killer Klowns from outer space, which feature giant monsters. Likewise, I've seen the reverse; Japanese "homages" to the Kaiju genre that may be japanese but lack a lot of craft and creativity that goes into the genre.

Thus, the term Kaiju shouldn't only be used for films that originate from Japan, but rather those that also take direct inspiration from it. It's similar to an artistic movement, and how the definitions of said movement warp and change over time, cross cultures, and then click back again and can be broken down into sub-genres and eras.

I think it's worth also aknoweldging how much the term "Kaiju" has entered the mainstream, and perhaps in 2014 we would be having a different conversation. Recently I watched Invincible (2021), and in the series Omni-Man goes off to "fight a Kaiju". Additionally, I've heard more and more casual (ie: not within this community) use this term to describe things. Rather than resist, I embrace that the term is becoming more mainstream, and it's a good thing over all. But up until recently, Kaiju was sort of lingo that people seldom used outside of a very specific context within a niche fandom.

None of this is an argument btw (incase anyone, not just MM interprets this that way). I think discussing these things is super fascinating and I'm open to other takes in either direction.