Suicide in Godzilla films

[LegendZilla]

Hey everyone, LegendZilla here. At this moment I would like to discuss a subject that I know may be a bit touchy to many of you. Surely many of you have dealt with it or at least knew other people who have on at least one point. That subject being suicide...

The Godzilla franchise (along with other Toho films) has dealt with the subject quite often. The most famous example being none other than Dr. Serizawa back in the franchise's very beginning. Other examples include Katsura Mafune in Terror Of Mechagodzilla, That one guy who stumbled upon Ghidorah's lair in GMK and very recently, Haruo Sakaki in The Monster Planet Trilogy to name a few. I have no doubt that future entries in the franchise will explore it again long after we're gone.

My point is how do you think that suicide should be handled? Whenever it happens in real life, it is tragic and should be treated as such even when a fictional character does as well. The Planet Eater trilogy botched it up big time by actually glorifying it in the final scene, just one of many issues that plagued the trilogy from the very start.

I look forward to seeing if you would be willing share anything on this otherwise heavy subject and its inclusion in The Godzilla film franchise (as well as other Toho films, particularly in the kaiju genre).

Peace out, LegendZilla.

[_JNavs_]

It's a justifiable suicide in Planet Eater. He made a sacrifice to extinguish the last glimmer of hatred humanity had for nature. Now the survivors only know peace.

Suicide doesn't have to only be done as some kinda tragic moment, and saying it does, limits the endless possibilities that can involve said action. It seems you're confusing selfless sacrifice for suicide. I'd say let it be handled however they choose to handle it.

Say a journalist gets too close to Godzilla one day, then we follow them as they receive nasty radiation poisoning over a period of time, followed by all kinds of cancers, they believe they'd rather take their own life, than let their inner metaphorical monster eat them alive. Boom, insta grimdark take that wraps around back to the main idea. Without even thinking.

Godzilla is a wide open variable for all kinds of subjects.

[LSD Jellyfish]

It's wrong to generalize this as "suicide in Godzilla films", in that they're all done in different contexts, circumstances, over a course of 70 years old. It's not as prevalent was one might think.

-Dr. Serizawa was making sure he would not only kill Godzilla, but prevent anyone in the future from abusing or making the oxygen destroyer again. A deeper dive/viewing might view it as an admission of Serizawa recognizing the era he is from, is over, and the world does not need people like him in it. It's not explained a lot, but it's easy to forget that Serizawa is a crazed war veteran. Throw in losing Emiko and the love triangle, which is the undertone of the climax too. Other than that, it's a treated like a heroic sacrifice.

-Katsura was a robot and controlling MG. While a different circumstance, parallels could be made to Serizawa above (ie: it's more of a plot device than a narrative centered around suicide).

-The guy in GMK was going to kill himself. The forest he as doing so is famous for suicides. He's the only one here that's definite, and he doesn't even succeed. My honest interpretation is that it was a just a decent way to provide an explanation of why someone was alone in the deep forests surrounding Mt. Fuji and allows for an interesting reveal. You'll notice that GMK is filled with tons of random side characters, that we as the audience briefly stick with. Examples include: the mayor during the biker gang attack, the teenagers who drown in the lake, the school teacher during the atomic bomb breath, the woman in the super market that drops the eggs. That doesn't suddenly mean GMK or it's narrative have anything to do with suicide.

-I'm confused how Haruo glorified suicide in Planet Eater. It was pretty clear he hated Godzilla, and would not be satisfied or live without killing it. And no Jnavs, suicide is never "justified". I don't think you mean that, but a better term might be that the narrative builds something up, and then has pay-off.

These are four examples, out of 36 plus movies over a span of 65+ years. Suicide is not a prevalent theme in the Godzilla series and you might as well just as easily make a "Kaneko hating dogs and cars thread" because a few of his movies showcase brief scenes of monsters attacking animals or humans being cruel to them. My point is that there's no real connection between any of the subjects in the matter.

Let it be known: I'm considering, and probably will lock this. I see this thread as something that'll just devolve into shit slinging.The only reason why I'm not right now, is I'm curious if anyone has actually any interesting takes or feelings on the matter that aren't callous.

[LegendZilla]

Let it be known: I'm considering, and probably will lock this. I see this thread as something that'll just devolve into poop slinging.The only reason why I'm not right now, is I'm curious if anyone has actually any interesting takes or feelings on the matter that aren't callous.

So far it’s been pretty civil. Also, FYI I am aware of the difference between killing oneself merely because they’d had it with living and making a sacrifice. Also, I am aware that most of you around here on not fond of the Omni Viewer on YouTube, but he made a video on how Serizawa’s sacrifice worked, yet Haruo’s didn’t. I have tired posting YouTube videos around here (as well as photos), but I have been having trouble with it lately.

[Major sssspielberg!]

There's also Kobayashi sacrificing himself to stop Godzilla in Raids Again, Rodan dropping into the volcano to be with it's mate, the Mu Empress choosing to die with her people, Sanda pretty much giving his life to beat Gaira, as well as Shin Kishida and Akihiko Hirata giving their lives to help beat the TPBH aliens in Godzilla vs Mechagodzilla.
None of these are "suicides" in the same was as the guy in the forest in GMK, they all have a theme of self-sacrifice for the greater good. This is a theme/idea that I think was enmeshed in the kaiju genre since Serizawa's sacrifice.

[Terasawa]

Surprised no one's mentioned Shindo yet. Katagiri is another riff on that, although his motives are more ambiguous.

[LSD Jellyfish]

Surprised no one's mentioned Shindo yet. Katagiri is another riff on that, although his motives are more ambiguous.

I think a lot of this depends on what your definition and interpretation of suicide is. The Godzilla franchise, like many other action oriented movies, are full of “noble sacrifices” and “acceptance of death” moments. Shindo and Katagiri definitely fall into the latter Katagori (;) ), while Kobayashi would fall into the “noble sacrifices” category. Someone like Gondo could fit into that category too.

These are a lot different than say, the guy in GMK.

I think a simple explanation of this is that the human characters, with the exception of Miki, are not overarching leads. It’s okay if the protagonist, or one of the important side characters/villains dies off, because it’s not a story centered around them. The Godzilla franchise never adapts a “everyone must die” edgy persona because of that, but for the most part allows characters to be offed when it’s thematically relevant.

[Terasawa]

Surprised no one's mentioned Shindo yet. Katagiri is another riff on that, although his motives are more ambiguous.

The Godzilla franchise, like many other action oriented movies, are full of “noble sacrifices” and “acceptance of death” moments. Shindo and Katagiri definitely fall into the latter Katagori (;) )

I disagree. I think Shindo's death is definitely a suicide, specifically one to atone for his failure.

[_JNavs_]

I wouldn't really call grimdark, "callous" (if that was directed at me) but people vary. I think there's a very emotionally telling story if people were actually physically affected by Godzilla. Since the dude is a walking nuke, people WILL be affected long term, people WILL find themselves stuck in some incredibly tight positions if their curiosity gets the best of them during a Kaiju Attack, and I think it'd be incredibly emotional to have that hatred build over the course of the film, as they blame the monster on the TV for indirect causes. Even just following a person and keeping the monster as background noise after the person becomes affected could hit incredibly hard by the end.

And when the action does finally occur, you can have a tv in the background playing the news, with "The Monster has grown" headlining and everyone in complete panic as the scene cuts to black.

I think there are definitely some strong stories that could be told there.

Added in 9 minutes 37 seconds:

-I'm confused how Haruo glorified suicide in Planet Eater. It was pretty clear he hated Godzilla, and would not be satisfied or live without killing it. And no Jnavs, suicide is never "justified". I don't think you mean that, but a better term might be that the narrative builds something up, and then has pay-off.

Yeah I didn't mean generally justifiable, I meant in Haruo's eyes personally, he justified his own death by seeing that he'd be an outlier in a community that lacked the hatred he had deep within himself for Godzilla. (Not that it makes things right by any means)

But yes it was a narrative 3 films in the making, with a tragic payoff at the end.

[TheLastGezora]

It's a subject I wouldn't mind seeing being tackled in a Godzilla film. As others haver said, most of these examples aren't really 'suicides' in the conventional sense, aside from the guy in GMK who is more of a plot device than an actual character.

I recall reading at one point that a draft for Godzilla vs. Destoroyah had the film ending with Miki committing suicide, but I can't find anything to back this up and I'm starting to think this is just one of those incredibly edgy fake rumors.

[eabaker]

No mention of Goro Maki III yet? His suicide is a pretty huge factor in Shin Godzilla.

[LSD Jellyfish]

No mention of Goro Maki III yet? His suicide is a pretty huge factor in Shin Godzilla.

I forgot he killed himself. But yes, I'd say that's the best example of a suicide in a Godzilla film to date. I think that's the only one where it Is pretty conclusive, not a "noble sacrifice" as I stated early. While Shin is the primary threat, the mystery surrounding his death, is a large part of the narrative, like finding the nuclear waste and the events leading up.

Added in 59 seconds:

I disagree. I think Shindo's death is definitely a suicide, specifically one to atone for his failure.

Yeah, you're right. I think he's given an opportunity to escape, but chooses not to. I need to re-watch that.

[JAGzilla]

^ Yeah, he's warned that Godzilla is approaching, and he says, "This is how I want it. Let me have it my way." He definitely planned his reunion with Godzilla.

[Major sssspielberg!]

I never thought about it before, but Shin uses Maki's suicide to flip the original film's script from the get-go:
Godzilla ends with a noble sacrifice, Shin opens with a sinister one.

[Cryptid_Liker]

I never thought about it before, but Shin uses Maki's suicide to flip the original film's script from the get-go:
Godzilla ends with a noble sacrifice, Shin opens with a sinister one.

I never thought about it that way. Pretty interesting

[LSD Jellyfish]

I never thought about it before, but Shin uses Maki's suicide to flip the original film's script from the get-go:
Godzilla ends with a noble sacrifice, Shin opens with a sinister one.

Holy shit, you're right.

[edgaguirus]

Serizawa's death covers both suicide and noble sacrifice. Serizawa had it all planned; He insisted on going into the water, and then chose to remain on the bottom. He did tell those on the ship it was to make sure the device went off without problem, but Serizawa knew what he was doing. Serizawa's end was tragic, but also respectful and appropriate. Shindo's death is the best example of suicide here. I don't know much of Japanese culture, but failure in business or professional aspects of life is a common reason for ending life. Shindo had turned the beast that saved his life into a rampaging force that was destroying his country. He is responsible for the monster, and he chooses to face the consequences of that responsibility. The moment between man and monster gives this movie an emotional punch. The two are reunited after so long, with Godzilla seeming to recognize the man before the man is destroyed. This also is treated with an appropriate manner.

As for future films, I wouldn't want it unless it enhances the story in some way.

[LSD Jellyfish]

Serizawa's death covers both suicide and noble sacrifice. Serizawa had it all planned; He insisted on going into the water, and then chose to remain on the bottom. He did tell those on the ship it was to make sure the device went off without problem, but Serizawa knew what he was doing. Serizawa's end was tragic, but also respectful and appropriate. Shindo's death is the best example of suicide here. I don't know much of Japanese culture, but failure in business or professional aspects of life is a common reason for ending life. Shindo had turned the beast that saved his life into a rampaging force that was destroying his country. He is responsible for the monster, and he chooses to face the consequences of that responsibility. The moment between man and monster gives this movie an emotional punch. The two are reunited after so long, with Godzilla seeming to recognize the man before the man is destroyed. This also is treated with an appropriate manner.

As for future films, I wouldn't want it unless it enhances the story in some way.

Shindo's arc in Godzilla vs. King Ghidorah reflects an end of Bushido and Imperialistic attitudes in Imperial WW2 Japan.
I'm not an expert on this, and I worry about both sources "white-washing" and romanticising the subject, but you can see a lot of it here, under the "Meiji-Showa" era. Clearly a lot of what we see with Shindo, and the contrast to Terasawa (current Japan) and Emi (future Japan) are totally intentional in constructing a narrative:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bushido

[Major sssspielberg!]

How tf did this thread turn out so awesome. I'm super juiced to watch Godzilla vs King Ghidorah when I get home tonight now!

[m0nster01]

Wait,

Shin Kishida, Akihiko Hirata, and the other guy survived the destruction of the Simian base in Godzilla vs. MechaGodzilla. You can clearly seem them escaping the entrance to the cave and Shimizu's brother and I think Hirata and Kishida are seen at the very end along with our other heroes.

Back on target,

You could argue that any of the defense force members, G-Force, or police are acknowledging that they will likely sacrifice their lives fighting kaiju in order to protect the people of Japan. Sadly there isn't too much emphasis on it, but the reaction shots of various soldiers in GMK and Colonel Gondo's last moments in Godzilla vs. Biollante show these men and women giving their best to the very end. I really enjoyed the military prep scenes in Gamera 2; with rookies and vets readying their selves for the likely fatal defense against the Legion.

Lastly, Gorath shows the crew of the JX-1 realizing that escape is hopeless from the runaway star and their determination to contribute to the eventual countermeasures in their dying moments. The cries of banzai didn't glorify their dying, but instead their bravery and determination in the face of death.