LGBT characters in the Godzilla franchise
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Re: LGBT characters in the Godzilla franchise
^^But has Disney/Star Wars even had a gay character? It's kind of funny, all these people are non stop complaining about inclusion in media, but in reality, they haven't had any substantial gay characters in their stuff.
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Re: LGBT characters in the Godzilla franchise
In a blink-and-you-miss-it event among unimportant extras, in the background, which was cut out in certain foreign releases.LSD Jellyfish wrote:^^But has Disney/Star Wars even had a gay character? It's kind of funny, all these people are non stop complaining about inclusion in media, but in reality, they haven't had any substantial gay characters in their stuff.
Because Disney is not woke, despite what some people may think. Disney cares about their public image, and maximum profit. They'll do the absolute bare minimum to earn pats on the back and gain good publicity for "being an ally", while conveniently editing out controversial subject in outher countries matter so that they can maintain their perfect image globally.
When I mentioned gay-baiting earlier in this thread? That's a prime example right there.
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Re: LGBT characters in the Godzilla franchise
Watch Final Wars again, when Rodan shows up in NY...Kaiju-King42 wrote:Not to mention dropping the first F-bomb in the series' history. "You gotta be skreeonking kidding," when Ghidorah appears.
Anyway, I don't have a strong opinion one way or the other. I think what some people need to realize however is that just because two males are close friends doesn't automatically =homosexual.
I mean, I am happily married. But I have had many male friends I consider "brothers", as in the biblical sense a close friend can be a brother it doesn't have to be your fleshly relative.
I see nothing to date in any G film to indicate any characters thus far would be as such, I'm sure in time there will be though.
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Re: LGBT characters in the Godzilla franchise
I don't recall them ever saying that but if you watch the police officer's lips you can tell he originally dropped a few and got dubbed over in posto.supreme wrote:Watch Final Wars again, when Rodan shows up in NY...Kaiju-King42 wrote:Not to mention dropping the first F-bomb in the series' history. "You gotta be skreeonking kidding," when Ghidorah appears.
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Re: LGBT characters in the Godzilla franchise
In the Video Daikaiju sub, the captain of the Karyu lets out an F-bomb when taking on Anguirus the first time.G2000 wrote:I don't recall them ever saying that but if you watch the police officer's lips you can tell he originally dropped a few and got dubbed over in posto.supreme wrote:Watch Final Wars again, when Rodan shows up in NY...Kaiju-King42 wrote:Not to mention dropping the first F-bomb in the series' history. "You gotta be skreeonking kidding," when Ghidorah appears.
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Re: LGBT characters in the Godzilla franchise
Here's an article that taps into this sort of thing: Godzilla and Me
And you have to think, with 30+ films over 60+ years, there's definitely been some LGBTQ+ cast and crew members.
This is a running gag in Dougherty's films. John Carpenter's The Thing is one of his favorites (Ghidorah is kept at Outpost 32, a reference to Outpost 31) and I believe the line also appears in Trick r Treat and Krampus.Kaiju-King42 wrote:Not to mention dropping the first F-bomb in the series' history. "You gotta be fucking kidding," when Ghidorah appears.
Don't know about Dougherty but Roland Emmerich has been openly gay for some time now.G2000 wrote:Tangentially related but unless I'm mistaken, isn't Dougherty the first gay director in the franchise or was there someone else I'm unaware of?
And you have to think, with 30+ films over 60+ years, there's definitely been some LGBTQ+ cast and crew members.
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Re: LGBT characters in the Godzilla franchise
Damn, I knew that. How did I forget?tbeasley wrote:Don't know about Dougherty but Roland Emmerich has been openly gay for some time now.
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Re: LGBT characters in the Godzilla franchise
This is the opinion of a male straight person, so I don't know if my opinion is that important, but anyway:
I don't really think LGBT+ ADND/OR straight characters have really mattered in the franchise so far, at least not in the themes that we've got.
I'd love an LGBT+ oriented story, maybe even using the kaiju as some sort of metaphor, idk, something like that would be nice. Kaiju eiga hasa always been about metaphors and messages beyond the big monsters.
That being said, I really think Godzilla: Final Wars has an incredibly strong homoerotic vibe in it. I couldn't point why or where, but I can feel it every time I watch that movie. A few Kitamura films make me feel the same, like Versus.
I don't really think LGBT+ ADND/OR straight characters have really mattered in the franchise so far, at least not in the themes that we've got.
I'd love an LGBT+ oriented story, maybe even using the kaiju as some sort of metaphor, idk, something like that would be nice. Kaiju eiga hasa always been about metaphors and messages beyond the big monsters.
That being said, I really think Godzilla: Final Wars has an incredibly strong homoerotic vibe in it. I couldn't point why or where, but I can feel it every time I watch that movie. A few Kitamura films make me feel the same, like Versus.
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Re: LGBT characters in the Godzilla franchise
That's likely because the Xillien leader, like in a lot of American movies, is given gay stereotypes to mark him as "evil". You see the same queer-coding in a lot of renaissance-era Disney villains. Kitamura takes a lot of inspiration from American movies so I doubt he did so with any kind of malice towards queer people. Hell, the Disney villains were probably just blindly following tropes too.Destorogoji wrote: That being said, I really think Godzilla: Final Wars has an incredibly strong homoerotic vibe in it. I couldn't point why or where, but I can feel it every time I watch that movie. A few Kitamura films make me feel the same, like Versus.
Couple that with the intense
Last edited by Spuro on Tue Oct 20, 2020 2:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: LGBT characters in the Godzilla franchise
The kid in Megalon absolutely had an "action dad" and a "science dad", to paraphrase the TokyoLivesPodcast.
Sexuality and romance has never been much of a part of the franchise.
The inclusion of an LGBT character wouldn't be an issue, and it likely would not be done in a pandering/self congratulating way....but the media always seems to want to latch onto these things and make a big deal out of them.
Like....did we need a dozen articles about the movie Onward having a dialogue reference to a lesbian relationship? It was a one-off line in the movie, the movie was good....nothing to make a stir about, but the media turned it into a million clickbait articles.
I find it much more controversial that Disney removed that line from some international markets, but that is off topic.
Basically, it isn't an "issue" whatsoever, and wouldn't be unless the media or those involved in the film tried to really MAKE it one.
Sexuality and romance has never been much of a part of the franchise.
The inclusion of an LGBT character wouldn't be an issue, and it likely would not be done in a pandering/self congratulating way....but the media always seems to want to latch onto these things and make a big deal out of them.
Like....did we need a dozen articles about the movie Onward having a dialogue reference to a lesbian relationship? It was a one-off line in the movie, the movie was good....nothing to make a stir about, but the media turned it into a million clickbait articles.
I find it much more controversial that Disney removed that line from some international markets, but that is off topic.
Basically, it isn't an "issue" whatsoever, and wouldn't be unless the media or those involved in the film tried to really MAKE it one.
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Re: LGBT characters in the Godzilla franchise
Chrispy_G wrote:
Like....did we need a dozen articles about the movie Onward having a dialogue reference to a lesbian relationship? It was a one-off line in the movie, the movie was good....nothing to make a stir about, but the media turned it into a million clickbait articles.
I find it much more controversial that Disney removed that line from some international markets, but that is off topic.
Ah, but you misunderstand.
It wasn't the media discussing it, it was Disney advertising it to get people to see how inclusive the movie was (aka normally inclusive bordering on kind of lite giving the hoopla) to make money off that crowd, then taking it out in other markets to make money from the other side.
The passive progressive model as RLM put it so succinctly
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Re: LGBT characters in the Godzilla franchise
True, I stand corrected. Didn't really aim that the right way. To be fair, a lot of these various online "access media" outlets have dubious dynamics with certain big studios....many different sites often conveniently run with similar opinions on narratives and cover them all at the same time and with the same angle, even outside of the 'natural news cycle'....they also cover the big Studios in a very friendly way to make sure they continue to get invited to screenings and set visits and things like that.SoggyNoodles2016 wrote:Chrispy_G wrote:
Like....did we need a dozen articles about the movie Onward having a dialogue reference to a lesbian relationship? It was a one-off line in the movie, the movie was good....nothing to make a stir about, but the media turned it into a million clickbait articles.
I find it much more controversial that Disney removed that line from some international markets, but that is off topic.
Ah, but you misunderstand.
It wasn't the media discussing it, it was Disney advertising it to get people to see how inclusive the movie was (aka normally inclusive bordering on kind of lite giving the hoopla) to make money off that crowd, then taking it out in other markets to make money from the other side.
The passive progressive model as RLM put it so succinctly
I have good friends in the LGBT community, they hate the "back handed pandering" more than anyone. Similar thing happened with the Rise of Skywalker, include a lesbian kiss to make headlines and score the points....but make sure you edit that out from markets that disapprove.
"It is about money, not principle"
One friend of mine was particularly irked that it seemed like it was "always lesbians because that must be more mainstream and easy to sell" and that it was rarely ever gay men(which he happens to be) being given the 'inclusion' in these really mainstream films/projects, at least recently. Onward, Rise of Skywalker, Stranger Things.
Last edited by Chrispy_G on Tue Oct 20, 2020 9:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: LGBT characters in the Godzilla franchise
Toho's official Godzilla Twitter page shared this, so that's something -
https://twitter.com/TOHO_GODZILLA/statu ... 2294536194
https://twitter.com/TOHO_GODZILLA/statu ... 2294536194
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Re: LGBT characters in the Godzilla franchise
Certainly nothing sexual in Godzilla, save for a few mangas with sex in them, used to promote Godzilla 2014:
I realized after reading some stories with sex in them and Godzilla, I really don't care.
However, one thing is I don't want Godzilla to turn into something purely adult. I think the strengths of a lot of the movies, specifically the Showa era, is that although they have mature themes, they're still overall relatively friendly towards all ages.
I realized after reading some stories with sex in them and Godzilla, I really don't care.
However, one thing is I don't want Godzilla to turn into something purely adult. I think the strengths of a lot of the movies, specifically the Showa era, is that although they have mature themes, they're still overall relatively friendly towards all ages.
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Re: LGBT characters in the Godzilla franchise
There are only a few where the romance itself has played a big narrative role, but about half of the series' films have had main characters who have been in some sort of spoken or heavily implied romantic relationship.Chrispy_G wrote:Sexuality and romance has never been much of a part of the franchise.
Last edited by Terasawa on Sat Oct 24, 2020 8:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: LGBT characters in the Godzilla franchise
In Asian culture, people are not really as open about kissing in public, let alone depictions of people kissing in film.Terasawa wrote:There are only a few where the romance itself has played a big narrative role, but about half of the series' films have had main characters who have been in some sort of spoken or heavily implied romantic relationship.Chrispy_G wrote:Sexuality and romance has never been much of a part of the franchise.
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Re: LGBT characters in the Godzilla franchise
That's kind of what I was getting at, the most explicit moment in a Toho Godzilla film was Katsura on the operating table.LegendZilla wrote:In Asian culture, people are not really as open about kissing in public, let alone depictions of people kissing in film.Terasawa wrote:There are only a few where the romance itself has played a big narrative role, but about half of the series' films have had main characters who have been in some sort of spoken or heavily implied romantic relationship.Chrispy_G wrote:Sexuality and romance has never been much of a part of the franchise.
Outside of that...the most passionate/steamy romance would be what....Glenn and Namikawa?
Pretty sure Ford and his wife on the couch was the closest thing we got to a scene coming close to being 'sensual'...and it was super tame.
You get the wife, boyfriend, scientist with a crush on a reporter or military girl...with how receptive they are varying pair to pair. They never seem to really have the time or take the time to really get cooking on that front.
Not coming at this like "Oh sexuality doesn't BELONG in a Godzilla movie!" not implying that at all...just saying these films never care all that much. Most of the would-be romances posited in these movies get left pretty unresolved by the end of the films.
I'd love a tally of how many actual on screen kisses we've had in nearly 70 years of Godzilla films.
Just so long as we don't start getting oddball articles questioning Godzilla's gender and calling the "King of the Monsters" title a toxic sexist sign of the patriarchy...
Last edited by Chrispy_G on Sat Oct 24, 2020 11:45 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: LGBT characters in the Godzilla franchise
Sooo...have any of you ever lived in Japan? Or are you just going to keep spouting stereotypes of how "asian" relationships are?
It's true a lot of PDAs (kissing in public) and society here differs from what most Americans consider publicly acceptable. But then you live here and realize it's mostly just the same, people are just better at hiding it. Just because people don't conform to what you think as your definition of public affection, does not mean it does not exist.
There's certainly an interesting dichotomy to discuss, where people are more open to "hentai" and nudity, but simultaenously other things, but this idea is dumb.
It's true a lot of PDAs (kissing in public) and society here differs from what most Americans consider publicly acceptable. But then you live here and realize it's mostly just the same, people are just better at hiding it. Just because people don't conform to what you think as your definition of public affection, does not mean it does not exist.
There's certainly an interesting dichotomy to discuss, where people are more open to "hentai" and nudity, but simultaenously other things, but this idea is dumb.
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Re: LGBT characters in the Godzilla franchise
They sure seem to love creepy groping scenes or groin pratfalls.LegendZilla wrote:In Asian culture, people are not really as open about kissing in public, let alone depictions of people kissing in film.Terasawa wrote:There are only a few where the romance itself has played a big narrative role, but about half of the series' films have had main characters who have been in some sort of spoken or heavily implied romantic relationship.Chrispy_G wrote:Sexuality and romance has never been much of a part of the franchise.
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Re: LGBT characters in the Godzilla franchise
But that's romance nonetheless, tame or tepid as it may be (I didn't count instances like GxMG where it's clear that the romantic feelings are onesided/unresolved). It's been a part of more than half the films in the franchise. To say "these films never care [about romance] all that much" is not true because there are ~17 Godzilla films (more films than make up most film series) with a depicted or implied romantic relationship of some nature. IMO it has nothing to do with how explicitly a couple acts on screen.Chrispy_G wrote:That's kind of what I was getting at, the most explicit moment in a Toho Godzilla film was Katsura on the operating table.
Outside of that...the most passionate/steamy romance would be what....Glenn and Namikawa?
Pretty sure Ford and his wife on the couch was the closest thing we got to a scene coming close to being 'sensual'...and it was super tame.
You get the wife, boyfriend, scientist with a crush on a reporter or military girl...with how receptive they are varying pair to pair. They never seem to really have the time or take the time to really get cooking on that front.
So my point is that it exists in these films, but so far every one of the relationships has been of a heterosexual nature. I'm not sure why there can't be a small non-hetero relationship instead. A depiction of an LGBT relationship shouldn't have to be any different than a hetero one. It's only the people involved that constitute the difference.
And it's not like there aren't Japanese romance films, either. Visual romantic cues are less common than in American films but it's not like they're hidden either. But I'm trying to figure out how LZ's comment about the receptiveness of Japanese people to PDA relates to my post...LSD Jellyfish wrote:Sooo...have any of you ever lived in Japan? Or are you just going to keep spouting stereotypes of how "asian" relationships are?
It's true a lot of PDAs (kissing in public) and society here differs from what most Americans consider publicly acceptable. But then you live here and realize it's mostly just the same, people are just better at hiding it. Just because people don't conform to what you think as your definition of public affection, does not mean it does not exist.
There's certainly an interesting dichotomy to discuss, where people are more open to "hentai" and nudity, but simultaenously other things, but this idea is dumb.
As for nudity, of the four instances I can think of in the Godzilla series, only the Katsura scene strikes me as possibly being intended to be erotic. But I don't think it's even as clear as that. She's being operated on so that would be questionable eroticism.
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